Logos Now
Comments
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Super.Tramp said:
If Faithlife included a digital version of Bible Study Magazine with the Logos Now subscription I bet a lot more people would subscribe.
I don't know - $9/Month or $90/Year for a magazine still would not get me to bite.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Super.Tramp said:Kevin A. Purcell said:
I want abdigital version of BSM. Not gonna happen is it!
If Faithlife included a digital version of Bible Study Magazine with the Logos Now subscription I bet a lot more people would subscribe.
That would be a great addition in the future. [Y]
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Floyd Johnson said:
I don't know - $9/Month or $90/Year for a magazine still would not get me to bite.
Again, that would be one part of the service. My question for you: If you aren't interested in this, why keep posting about it? Just ignore it!
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Super.Tramp said:Kevin A. Purcell said:
I want abdigital version of BSM. Not gonna happen is it!
If Faithlife included a digital version of Bible Study Magazine with the Logos Now subscription I bet a lot more people would subscribe.
+1
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Now, Alabama, Bob's being transparent, but you don't need too. Telling the critics to be quiet would show the high mix of fan entries. Letting Floyd contribute allows the fans to joyously ... uh .... fan.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:
Now, Alabama, Bob's being transparent, but you don't need too. Telling the critics to be quiet would show the high mix of fan entries. Letting Fred contribute allows the fans to joyously ... uh .... fan.
Denise - my name is Floyd. But your point is valid.
Alabama - Sounds like you only want one side to be heard - those supporting LOGOS Now. Regardless, I will continue replying to those posts that I want to reply to. If you don't want a reply, don't comment.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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Floyd Johnson said:
Alabama - Sounds like you only want one side to be heard - those supporting LOGOS Now. Regardless, I will continue replying to those posts that I want to reply to. If you don't want a reply, don't comment.
Nope. It is ok to hear "both sides." Just be fair and don't make personal attacks.
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[quote user="alabama24"]Nope. It is ok to hear "both sides." Just be fair and don't make personal attacks. [/quote]
Sorry if you felt that my comment was meant to be personal. Actually, my thought, as I typed, was that I was echoing your comment.
[quote user="alabama24"]Again, that would be one part of the service. My question for you: If you aren't interested in this, why keep posting about it? Just ignore it! [/quote]
[quote user="Floyd Johnson"]Sounds like you only want one side to be heard - those supporting LOGOS Now. Regardless, I will continue replying to those posts that I want to reply to. If you don't want a reply, don't comment. [/quote]
Having said that, I am still on the fence. I currently see little of value to me - but will be watching as more value is added to the LOGOS Now package. In the meantime, I will remain a part of the discussion.
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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My aplogies Floyd ... my eyes saw Floyd, but my fingers typed along their merry way. I should keep an eye on them.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Floyd Johnson said:
Actually, my thought, as I typed, was that I was echoing your comment.
Sounds good Fred, er, Floyd. [Y] [:D]
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[:D]
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I note that resource sets that can be rented, such as commentaries (I have Cambridge Greek Testament on my mind) don't have dynamic pricing when choosing to rent despite that they have dynamic pricing if You buy the set to own it and own some volumes since before. I realize it would be difficult for the customer to see the exact advantage of buying more volumes to own if planning to rent the commentary set again some time as no full credit can be given, but anyway this illustrates the difference between owning and renting. Individual volumes from that particular series are sometimes on a sale for example in daily facebook or twitter deals - those sources always have 50% off as they are daily deals. page 11 in this thread:
Mark Smith said:I think you are on the right track, but so far Faithlife has not made any promises. I think it would strengthen the offering considerably for Faithlife to make a specific commitment to some sort of dynamic or discounted pricing on future upgrades. The more folks who ask for this the better in my opinion:
Bill Roth said:It seems that all Logos would have to do is promise free crossgrades after, say 24 months of Logos Now, and people would be clamoring to subscribe. Or maybe offer the next crossgrade on dynamic pricing that honestly accounts for the preceding Logos Now subscription.
L2 Catholic new; Used: ODCC L5 Reformed Silver L6 Full Crossgrade; L6 Chinese Bronze new; L6 Ancient Literature Feature Expansion Collection (25 vols.) new, no dynamic pricing. Before packs had 100 books incl. AYBRL new
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Simon said:Mark Smith said:Bill Roth said:
There is another point to be made on this subject. Logos has consistently in the past operated under the model of something like "you'll never have to pay for the same thing twice." If there is no free or highly discounted crossgrade for long duration Logos Now subscribers, then we will indeed be paying for the same thing twice.
Not to argue but we will be getting the use of features for our money. So far we don't know if we will ever own them, but I am certainly hopeful Faithlife will allow that at least by the time of the next major upgrade (Logos 7). So in a sense even if we have to pay for them again with Logos 7, we have used them for quite some time before that and have paid for that use. It isn't fully one way or the other. A bit of both, which is why I hope Faithlife will factor that into upgrade pricing in some way.
If Logos makes the promise that the paid subscription fee will fully or partly (50% or more) be usable as credit when upgrading to Logos 7, I will subscribe today without hesitating.
If Logos 7 will be released in 2 years, that would mean $192 in subscription fees. It's a shame paying that amount of money, and having to pay the full upgrade price to be able to keep on using them (owning them). Owning books/features/datasets means a big deal to me. But paying twice for the same feature just te be able to own it, feels wrong.
Maybe a Logos employee would be so kind to give us a bit of clarity on this issue.
This is what I am trying to get my head around. The way this sounds...I can subscribe and get the next version functionality today. So, for me, I own Logos 6 Gold today and if I want to start to use some of the Version 7 functionality today I would subscribe. If that is true, when version 7 comes out and I DON'T upgrade but keep paying for Logos Now, do i keep getting Version 7 functionality and so I do not necessarily need to upgrade? But if I do upgrade, I in essence pay to OWN the functionality I have been SUBSCRIBING to up to that point right?
I can't help to think that I am paying to help "beta" test future functionality so I agree with other posts that assurance of a significant discount towards the next base package upgrade would go along way towards me making use of the Logos Now subscription option otherwise I would probably just wait patiently for the next version and be happy with todays functionality.
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Ed,
Good post. I too have been thinking about the 50% figure. The way I figure it I am currently getting about $4.50 value from Logos Now. The media is worth about $2.50 per month to me and the privilege of using the Logos 7 features early are worth about $2.00 per month to me. This leaves the other 50%. Will the special discounts we get average out to $4.50 per month? Will the added media be of such value that it is worth more to me then $2.50 per month? Will we get some type of discount that will be worth the unaccounted for $4.50?
I will give Logos NOW two months to clarify these questions (one free month + one month for $8.99). After that I will cancel if I don't see any more value than I presently do. As things stand it is just not worth $8.99 per month to me.
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Ed Stone said:
I can't help to think that I am paying to help "beta" test future functionality
Just reflecting on this point
In https://community.logos.com/forums/p/103245/713875.aspx#713875 Phil says that the core at the moment is "Access to new dataset, media, and interactive content" - so not paying to help with beta testing any more than people on the stable channel of the desktop platform are expected to be doing so.
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Graham Criddle said:Ed Stone said:
I can't help to think that I am paying to help "beta" test future functionality
Just reflecting on this point
In https://community.logos.com/forums/p/103245/713875.aspx#713875 Phil says that the core at the moment is "Access to new dataset, media, and interactive content" - so not paying to help with beta testing any more than people on the stable channel of the desktop platform are expected to be doing so.
Thanks Graham. I admit this is not actually a beta scenario. However, having a group of people using the new functionality that is not available as a general release (except via Logos Now) will certainly give Logos another opportunity to fix the likely bugs that will occur prior to a general base package release. I am not opposed to that strategy but I do think an upgrade discount to faithful Logos Now subscribers would help with that perception. I like Keith's example above and his suggested scenario would encourage me to join the new program.
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Well, I guess I better fess up now, rather than later, when my conscience may be an issue.
I'm hoping large numbers of folks sign up. I've been being negative, so the fan folks can rightly correct me.
- Get all those feaures 'right' so they'll be ready when I'm ready. I'm still stretching my legs on L5 features.
- Bucks for Logos. Fund completion of L4, L5, and L6 features still awaiting Logos priority.
- Another internet site for Logos. I'd wondered, after the dating site collapsed
- Maybe Logos can figure out what the Faithlife social site is for. Features?
- And I'll be able to continue my poor humor habits
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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The Faithlife site has been very much figured out and is quite useful. The problem is that people consider it a social site much like facebook which is not the primary purpose.Denise said:Well, I guess I better fess up now, rather than later, when my conscience may be an issue.
I'm hoping large numbers of folks sign up. I've been being negative, so the fan folks can rightly correct me.
- Get all those feaures 'right' so they'll be ready when I'm ready. I'm still stretching my legs on L5 features.
- Bucks for Logos. Fund completion of L4, L5, and L6 features still awaiting Logos priority.
- Another internet site for Logos. I'd wondered, after the dating site collapsed
- Maybe Logos can figure out what the Faithlife social site is for. Features?
- And I'll be able to continue my poor humor habits
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Yep ... customers (aka users) have a bad habit deciding what things are for. My guess is Logos will meld it into the new online Logos7, to include a mini-Online-Proclaim for smaller churches.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I'm not sure of any product where it makes sense that the customer decides what something made by a company is supposed to be used for. The company tells you what it is for and you decide if you want to use it or not. If you use it for something other than intended use why complain that it doesn't work they way you want? Doesn't make any sense.Denise said:Yep ... customers (aka users) have a bad habit deciding what things are for. My guess is Logos will meld it into the new online Logos7, to include a mini-Online-Proclaim for smaller churches.
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Denise said:
Yep ... customers (aka users) have a bad habit deciding what things are for. My guess is Logos will meld it into the new online Logos7, to include a mini-Online-Proclaim for smaller churches.
I love it when you crack me up. Smaller churches include attendance in the following ranges, right?
- zero
- negative integers
- imaginary integers
'cause current pricing is:
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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David Taylor Jr said:
The Faithlife site has been very much figured out and is quite useful. The problem is that people consider it a social site much like facebook which is not the primary purpose.
I have no idea what the "faithlife" site is for... It is a bag of hurt any time I have been forced to use it.
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While I'm not a huge fan of the Faithlife site, I think it is interesting that Verbum manages to run Year of Faith Reading Groups, Lenten Bibles studies etc. on it without major problems.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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[I]
Gee, after I heard about the Logos strategic plans ('we just don't know'), and their eco-system (reminding me of the highly regarded Ecophonics), $8.99 a month for a pastor's Bible software upkeep plus a mini-Proclaim sounded really Logostrategic.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Your points are right on! This is nothing short of the Adobe model, and what they did with Photoshop CS6 - no longer available as a separate package. One is now on the hook to either 1.) pay for the "privilege" of beta testing for Faithlife, 2.) "rent"- not own - the program - and lose all newest features if one stops paying rent, or 3.) pay for the software over and over - not just twice.
To quote one well-know former Logos employee who still makes his living supporting Logos - "Personally, I think it stinks that Logos is now charging more money for more features after just upgrading. But, hey what can you do? And if you read the fine print, once you stop the subscription, you lose the new features" He goes on to note that no one knows what the implications are for Logos 7, either." Clearly he is very dissatisfied with this event.
The individuals who believe that this is great or they are getting a good deal need to consider these points, ignore the Faithlife spin, and to quote one famous icon, "stop drinking the Kool-Aid". At $8.99/month, less free month, its almost $100/year - certainly not trivial for me - and after a two year cycle, do I get any credit against 7, does 7 contain these features, etc. - and one keeps on paying as they move towards version 8 - if they don't follow the Adobe model. It's simply another scheme to finance their development costs (and obviously increasing overhead subsequent to the sale/acquisition) and create a permanent, known base income stream. This does not even factor in the complications created by greatly increasing the complexity of user configurations in release that Logos must/should support. I don't believe with the information now in hand that this offering is good for the consumer, and I am not certain that in the long view it is good for Logos/Faithlife, either.
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Bob Pritchett said:
Ultimately our goal is to reduce the cost of Bible study tools. You don't have to believe us -- you're welcome to sit out Logos Now and future products, and we'll continue to serve you as we have for many years -- but I hope you'll keep an open mind and watch what follows. You'll see the Logos Now isn't about extracting more from you, it's about giving you an even better deal -- so that ultimately we can make more by serving a larger percentage of the church. Our ambition is to make Collectors-level Bible study tools and library available to everyone for just a few dollars a month. It will take a while (years?) to get there, but that's our heart and passion.
I appreciate your insight into this goal of Faithlife/Logos, and I appreciate what you guys are trying to do. I think that a subscription-based model is great for those who can't afford to purchase the resources outright. However, where I begin to have a great concern is when customers are forced to either pay for a subscription or miss out. To me, it's very concerning when I see a company heading that route.
When Microsoft, for example, chose to go the subscription route with Office 365, it pretty much solidified that I will never be giving them my business again for an Office type suite, and I went elsewhere to find other companies that provided either free or non-subscription based alternatives. If Logos continues to pursue a subscription-only approach, I will most likely look to give my future business elsewhere, which would make me very sad [:(] because I love Logos! [:)]
For example, I've been anxiously waiting for the OT Propositional outline dataset. And now, is the only way for me to get it to subscribe to a monthly fee? Or is there a plan for it to become available for purchase for those who would rather not pay for Logos Now? Again, I think that a subscription approach could fit the needs of many well who cannot afford to purchase a large base package, etc. but please, please allow us to have the best of both worlds and give us the option to purchase the same features and resources outright if we don't prefer the subscription model. Please don't try to force everyone to go down a path that only meets the needs of some.
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Roger Kadeg said:
This is nothing short of the Adobe model, and what they did with Photoshop CS6 - no longer available as a separate package.
Bob Pritchett, Faithlife CEO, started thread => Why subscription that includes:
Bob Pritchett said:Let me start by saying, I know some of you hate subscription models, and that's okay. We intend to support our existing purchase model for the foreseeable future.
If you don't like subscriptions, it's fine if you just don't subscribe. We'll just keep offering you things you can buy.
. . .
So we're trying to find a better middle ground; our goal is to use subscription products to ensure that people who are heavy users forever are also revenue generators forever. By stretching the revenue out over time -- and having it continue as long as the use does -- we ensure that revenue and expenses are more in sync. (As opposed to getting it all up front and hoping it lasts till the next big thing you can sell ships.)
And when this model works, a wonderful side-effect appears: the cost-of-entry to the platform goes down. Starting with the product doesn't have a large up front cost; it's just a few dollars a month. That invites more participation, more trials, and (hopefully) more users. Which lets us spread our costs over more customers, and ultimately offer more value for less overall cost. That's how you can watch a movie every night of the month (on Netflix, for $8.99) for less than the price of buying a single movie on DVD.
. . .
Again, we're not trying to take anything away. We actually love getting large hits of revenue around upgrade cycles, and there is a whole set of other problems with slow revenue over time. That's why we're not making a wholesale switch to subscription -- it would completely disrupt our business. Don't worry. We're just preparing to support both models so that we can offer you more for less and address the needs of people who like both models.
Thankful for Faithlife product plans that are different than Adobe. An open source alternative to photoshop is GIMP => http://www.gimp.org/
Later in the thread, Bob replied => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/103335/714917.aspx#714917
Bob Pritchett said:John Fugh, Jr. said:What happens for the subscriber when the next major release occurs?
We don't even know yet, but in general we try very hard to avoid making you pay twice for the same thing. Of course prices change constantly (as we generally reduce the price of content over time), so it's hard to promise one-to-one credits (otherwise dynamic pricing might require cash refunds -- not a sustainable business model!) but we don't know yet. We don't even know yet all the things that will be in Logos Now before Logos 7 ships.
Concur pro-rating Logos Now subscription payments toward future major release upgrade(s) would be greatly appreciated for "ownable" items in a major upgrade. Caveat: Logos Now includes more than "ownable" content and features that can be used offline.
Roger Kadeg said:pay for the "privilege" of beta testing for Faithlife
Thankful for Phil Gons reply => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/103245/713875.aspx#713875 that included:
Phil Gons said:Frank Sauer said:So is Logos Now just a subscription based beta testing program? It seems that it's an avenue to have early access to new features.
No. Early access to new features is just part of the value of a Now subscription. Access to new dataset, media, and interactive content is the core of the subscription for now.
Logos 6.2 Beta releases had improvements and bug fixes for every Logos 6 and Verbum 6 user => https://wiki.logos.com/Logos_6.2 plus new Logos Now features.
Thankful for Faithlife development change so Beta 1 release can have new features that is followed by several Beta releases focused on improvement plus bug fixes with goal of new stable release every 6 weeks.
Thankful for many new features in Logos 6 => What's New in Logos 6 (still have a lot to learn)
Roger Kadeg said:At $8.99/month, less free month, its almost $100/year
Thankful for Phil Gon's reply => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/103245/713750.aspx#713750 that includes:
Phil Gons said:We'd like to offer annual billing eventually, which would be $89.99. This would essentially get you two free months per year and be a way to lock in the lower rate for at least 12 months.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Phil Gons said:
It's likely that some of what's included in Logos Now will eventually be a part of some future base packages. How much, we're not sure yet. What we are pretty sure of is that some of what's included will not be, especially things that are dynamic and always-growing.
Can someone give examples of things that are "dynamic and always-growing"?
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Schumitinu said:Phil Gons said:
It's likely that some of what's included in Logos Now will eventually be a part of some future base packages. How much, we're not sure yet. What we are pretty sure of is that some of what's included will not be, especially things that are dynamic and always-growing.
Can someone give examples of things that are "dynamic and always-growing"?
They already did but I'm too lazy to find it ...
- templates for visual copy
- third-part art sources
- they lists at least a couple more that I don't remember
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Yes, I just came across the following explanation by Bob here
Bob Pritchett said:It's a pretty good guess that we'll offer for sale and outright purchase anything that's a complete, definable data set or resource. It's unlikely we'll offer for sale something that's a service, or a fluid database that's frequently maintained and updated. If we can call it 'done' and calculate its final cost, then we can price and sell it. If it's something that will never be done (curating online media at ever-changing third-party sites and tagging it with Preaching Themes?) then we'll likely only offer it by subscription. Likewise for something that's fundamentally a service, like a human-backed feature.
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Timothy Taylor said:
For example, I've been anxiously waiting for the OT Propositional outline dataset. And now, is the only way for me to get it to subscribe to a monthly fee? Or is there a plan for it to become available for purchase for those who would rather not pay for Logos Now?
This one at least is easy to answer - the plan would be you can wait for Logos 7 to come out, as you would be waiting before any of this Logos Now was announced, and then you would have the option to get it in an upgrade to version 7 and own it.
Bob's point is that nothing has changed for those not interested in the Logos Now subscription model - if you don't subscribe, just wait and the collection of features/datasets is available in the next upgrade - as has been the history of how we have worked with Logos/Faithlife in the past. I think complaints here are making the point of what about all the existing customers not interested in subscription, that through their significant monetary investments helped grow Faithlife to where it is today, they don't have the option to enjoy features/datasets early in a business model they are comfortable with, further introducing concern about the viability long term of how they want to purchase (i.e., if ownership model is disadvantaged today at the introduction of Logos Now, how much more so will it be further disadvantaged, crippled, or even go away in the future).
It's not about Logos Now as much as it is about the effect to the ownership model. If that issue did not exist the other issues/concerns/questions would probably be less of a concern and/or quickly go away because people would feel they had two legitimate purchasing options where one is not favored over the other by Faithlife.
This concern probably doesn't diffuse for some until either Fathlife does something near-term that those same people start to believe the ownership model for buying is not a second class citizen, or time proves it is not the case and that concern was unfounded. By now, more talking probably doesn't change this issue for anyone anymore but at least we know what the issue is :-)
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I am always late to the discussion it seems...
I have subscribed to Logos Now, and enjoy the new datasets and features so far. I can see from a business perspective why this makes sense and embrace innovation and staying ahead of or at least along with the curve. I appreciate Bob and Faithlife's transparency in introducing this new product. I trust Bob and FL as they have proven themselves trustworthy in my opinion. (others can disagree)
However, as a CPA doing business with businesses, I find that introducing a product to customers with a "we promise it will be good, but can't tell you exactly how it will work" fails to understand most customer/business relationships. Businesses provide products that have definition for the most part and customers decide if they want to buy. The tech industry has somewhat of a ready-shoot-aim business philosophy, but if there is too much shooting without much target, customers become confused. I think that is the case here. Personally I do not think this is not a matter of trust, or deceit or integrity or truth in advertising. All those accusations, while maybe perceived as valid, are probably just ways of voicing the confusion about the "target" not being defined enough when the product is introduced.
Most of us older (using the term loosely) do not embrace change. Most of the younger generation was raised on it. A $300 phone is obsolete in 2 years? Really? I understand and sympathize greatly with those that do not embrace change. However, it is going to come regardless of what we think. And to be honest, once it comes I like it. A business in the tech industry has to be forward looking, as getting left behind means you become obsolete. I appreciate Logos/FL forward thinking perspective. I appreciate the company dragging us forward even if we are kicking and screaming. In this case I do wish there was a bit more structure to the product. It would make the customer/business relationship clearer and more defined.
FL was one of the first bible software companies to go multi platform, go to downloads rather than CD/DVD, provide web access, cloud syncing of data etc. Each time there was similar customer anxiety being voiced. Each time in the end FL was followed by other software companies. Innovation has a price. Sometime the shot does not find any target. Sometimes the target finds the shot. (FL groups as an example). I am in for the ride, but FL, you need to be more defined in your products as you move forward. If you do not know, then maybe it is too soon to release the product.
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John Fidel said:
I am always late to the discussion it seems...
I have subscribed to Logos Now, and enjoy the new datasets and features so far. I can see from a business perspective why this makes sense and embrace innovation and staying ahead of or at least along with the curve. I appreciate Bob and Faithlife's transparency in introducing this new product. I trust Bob and FL as they have proven themselves trustworthy in my opinion. (others can disagree)
However, as a CPA doing business with businesses, I find that introducing a product to customers with a "we promise it will be good, but can't tell you exactly how it will work" fails to understand most customer/business relationships. Businesses provide products that have definition for the most part and customers decide if they want to buy. The tech industry has somewhat of a ready-shoot-aim business philosophy, but if there is too much shooting without much target, customers become confused. I think that is the case here. Personally I do not think this is not a matter of trust, or deceit or integrity or truth in advertising. All those accusations, while maybe perceived as valid, are probably just ways of voicing the confusion about the "target" not being defined enough when the product is introduced.
Most of us older (using the term loosely) do not embrace change. Most of the younger generation was raised on it. A $300 phone is obsolete in 2 years? Really? I understand and sympathize greatly with those that do not embrace change. However, it is going to come regardless of what we think. And to be honest, once it comes I like it. A business in the tech industry has to be forward looking, as getting left behind means you become obsolete. I appreciate Logos/FL forward thinking perspective. I appreciate the company dragging us forward even if we are kicking and screaming. In this case I do wish there was a bit more structure to the product. It would make the customer/business relationship clearer and more defined.
FL was one of the first bible software companies to go multi platform, go to downloads rather than CD/DVD, provide web access, cloud syncing of data etc. Each time there was similar customer anxiety being voiced. Each time in the end FL was followed by other software companies. Innovation has a price. Sometime the shot does not find any target. Sometimes the target finds the shot. (FL groups as an example). I am in for the ride, but FL, you need to be more defined in your products as you move forward. If you do not know, then maybe it is too soon to release the product.
Great observations John! Logos has not defined the target for the consumer. Logos has defined the target very well for themselves, it makes a lot of sense to generate a more predictable revenue stream.
However, as a consumer I am a little fuzzy about my “target”. So I get to use some of Logos 7 features early (BTW I used the Law Interactive today and it was very helpful) and some great media. But is it worth $8.99 per month, not to me personally. It is not enough for Logos to say, “trust us” to add more media, to offer special discounts, and to offer some unspecified credit when Logos 7 comes out. I do trust them to do all of those things, it is just that as a consumer I have absolutely no idea if I will judge these extra as worth $8.99 per month. I am sure there as some Logos users who already believe Logos NOW is worth $8.99 per month. I am also sure there will be some who will never find $8.99 per value in it. I fit in the category of “I don’t know.”
I wish Logos would have gotten their duck in order before launching this. I have signed up for the free month and because I do “trust” Logos I will actually pay for one or two months, but after that I can’t imagine continuing with so many unanswered questions. I hope Logos understand that this is not a complaint, but rather a plea, I really like the idea of Logos NOW but there is a limit to how long customers are willing to wait to see the value for the money they are spending.
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John Fidel said:
... "we promise it will be good, but can't tell you exactly how it will work" ...
Hmmm. Reminiscent of some long-ago national healthcare legislation that I vaguely remember ... "We have to pass the bill so that you can find out what is in it".
In reality, I trust the intentions, the integrity, and the transparency of Bob Pritchett and his team far more than the author of that little gem.
Instead of Artificial Intelligence, I prefer to continue to rely on Divine Intelligence instructing my Natural Dullness (Ps 32:8, John 16:13a)
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Keith Larson said:
I wish Logos would have gotten their duck in order before launching this. I have signed up for the free month and because I do “trust” Logos I will actually pay for one or two months, but after that I can’t imagine continuing with so many unanswered questions. I hope Logos understand that this is not a complaint, but rather a plea, I really like the idea of Logos NOW but there is a limit to how long customers are willing to wait to see the value for the money they are spending.
Well put. I am afraid they have raised a lot of questions that have yet to be answered. I hope we get those answers soon because I think Logos Now is a great idea.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Based on the number of responses to this forum, it doesn't seem like Logos Now is getting much traction. I really think that Logos needs to offer a $3.99 option for the enhanced web site only. I think that will more popular than Logos Now for most users.
Director of Zoeproject
www.zoeproject.com
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Tony Thomas said:
I really think that Logos needs to offer a $3.99 option for the enhanced web site only.
Faithlife is a business that needs to make a profit to stay open. Profit = Revenue - Expenses. Enhanced web site expenses can easily be more than $ 3.99 revenue for those who use an enhanced web site a lot. Anticipating web site only subscription being like phone data plans.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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I would only point out that companies like Ford Motor Company relied on its founder (i.e. Henry Ford's personality and integrity) to assure the success and continuation of the company. Yet, much like Ford Motors, such reliance on a personality didn't always turn out so well when the founder died or vision didn't meet the changing market conditions. One wonders just how far "integrity" and "personality" can carry a company in an accelerating technology market in the coming years....particularly after purchasing thousands of dollars of product. Just a thought.
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Tony Thomas said:
I really think that Logos needs to offer a $3.99 option for the enhanced web site only.
Faithlife is a business that needs to make a profit to stay open. Profit = Revenue - Expenses. Enhanced web site expenses can easily be more than $ 3.99 revenue for those who use an enhanced web site a lot. Anticipating web site only subscription being like phone data plans.
Keep Smiling
I understand that Faithlife needs to pay the bills and keep the lights on. However, the price needs to be reasonable to attract paying customers. I pay four dollars a month for Pandora and $3.75 a month for Evernote. Four dollars a month for Logos enhanced web seems to me to be a fair price for the services rendered. Your mileage may vary. I think that one of the reasons that Faithlife is in this predicament is that they have created a high cost of entry compared to the competition. The market is getting saturated and there is less money to go around.
Director of Zoeproject
www.zoeproject.com
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Even in its initial state, I am fine with subscribing to Logos Now. Regardless of the number of functions offered at the present time, I still feel like Logos has been so generous with the free books, free training, birthday gift certificates, Christmas cards, etc. that it'll be a long time before I feel like I'm getting a bad deal. And in the meantime, I'll get to use cool new tools and features to get more out of my Logos library.
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That's a great way to look at it!Brian Losabia said:Even in its initial state, I am fine with subscribing to Logos Now. Regardless of the number of functions offered at the present time, I still feel like Logos has been so generous with the free books, free training, birthday gift certificates, Christmas cards, etc. that it'll be a long time before I feel like I'm getting a bad deal. And in the meantime, I'll get to use cool new tools and features to get more out of my Logos library.
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Hey Phil I subscribed but i have not seen a download
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Onell McCarthy said:
Hey Phil I subscribed but i have not seen a download
Do you see Tools such as Concordance?
Can you see Propositional Outlines in Genesis in the NIV - with the Propositional Visual Filter enabled?
If so, these are some of the Logos Now features.
If not, please start a new thread about this
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Tony Thomas said:
I understand that Faithlife needs to pay the bills and keep the lights on. However, the price needs to be reasonable to attract paying customers.
Concur pricing affects demand. Lower pricing tends to have higher demand along with potential for economies of scale.
Tony Thomas said:I pay four dollars a month for Pandora and $3.75 a month for Evernote.
Noticed new Pandora One subscribers pay $ 4.99 per month as of May 2014 => http://money.cnn.com/2014/03/19/technology/innovation/pandora-fees/index.html
[quote]
Most of Pandora's 75 million active users won't be affected -- only 3.3 million customers pay for subscriptions. But Pandora's subscriber base has grown quickly, after the company briefly capped the number of hours listeners could log in from a mobile device using the free version last year.
Even if higher rates drive customers back to the free version, it might actually help Pandora.
Paid subscribers are Pandora's heaviest users, and the company isn't making as much money per-song from a subscriber as the company is from an ad-based listener, according to Laura Martin, a senior analyst at Needham & Company.
More research found 80 % of Pandora's revenue comes from advertising => http://www.dailyfinance.com/2015/03/12/pandoras-plan-convert-freeloaders-subscribers/ plus Pandora added $ 0.99 one-day ad free pass.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Just signed up for the free month! Waiting for Logos to install the new features. In the meantime, checking out the web app.
Nathan Parker
Visit my blog at http://focusingonthemarkministries.com
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John Fidel said:
I am always late to the discussion it seems...
I have subscribed to Logos Now, and enjoy the new datasets and features so far. I can see from a business perspective why this makes sense and embrace innovation and staying ahead of or at least along with the curve. I appreciate Bob and Faithlife's transparency in introducing this new product. I trust Bob and FL as they have proven themselves trustworthy in my opinion. (others can disagree)
However, as a CPA doing business with businesses, I find that introducing a product to customers with a "we promise it will be good, but can't tell you exactly how it will work" fails to understand most customer/business relationships. Businesses provide products that have definition for the most part and customers decide if they want to buy. The tech industry has somewhat of a ready-shoot-aim business philosophy, but if there is too much shooting without much target, customers become confused. I think that is the case here. Personally I do not think this is not a matter of trust, or deceit or integrity or truth in advertising. All those accusations, while maybe perceived as valid, are probably just ways of voicing the confusion about the "target" not being defined enough when the product is introduced.
Most of us older (using the term loosely) do not embrace change. Most of the younger generation was raised on it. A $300 phone is obsolete in 2 years? Really? I understand and sympathize greatly with those that do not embrace change. However, it is going to come regardless of what we think. And to be honest, once it comes I like it. A business in the tech industry has to be forward looking, as getting left behind means you become obsolete. I appreciate Logos/FL forward thinking perspective. I appreciate the company dragging us forward even if we are kicking and screaming. In this case I do wish there was a bit more structure to the product. It would make the customer/business relationship clearer and more defined.
FL was one of the first bible software companies to go multi platform, go to downloads rather than CD/DVD, provide web access, cloud syncing of data etc. Each time there was similar customer anxiety being voiced. Each time in the end FL was followed by other software companies. Innovation has a price. Sometime the shot does not find any target. Sometimes the target finds the shot. (FL groups as an example). I am in for the ride, but FL, you need to be more defined in your products as you move forward. If you do not know, then maybe it is too soon to release the product.
Thanks for being one of few "level-headed" voices in this thread! I'm one of the younger generation, but find I have a lot more in common with the values of the older generation when it comes to liking "stability." At the same time I've seen the increased longterm viability that a forward-looking philosophy has provided, and consequently have effectively argued for promoting Logos (instead of company A or
in my organization!0
said:
