Is there a KJV Bible from that is best on the 1769 text?
Is there a KJV Bible from that is best on the 1769 text? The one in my package is base on the KJV (1900 / PCE)
Comments
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Harrison Brock said:
Is there a KJV Bible from that is best (based) on the 1769 text? The one in my package is base(d) on the KJV (1900 / PCE)
Is this one suitable?
tootle pip
Mike
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The only one I could call superior would likely be The New Cambridge Paragraph Bible with the Apocrypha, rev. ed. (NCPB). But I do not think the Logos one is at any significant disadvantage. I know Nelson tried standardizing it and copywriter their cleaned up edition 1975, but all of these are basically the 1769 edition. It is just many small variations were published in 1769.
-Dan
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A while back, I did a comparison of the KJV1900 and the AV (both Logos format), but could not find any difference between the 2 using text comparison. The only differences I discovered were in text presentation and the lack of the interlinear in the AV.
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Thanks. I do not like the KJV(1900 PCE) because they change Spirit to spirit in 1 John 5:8.
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Harrison Brock said:
I do not like the KJV(1900 PCE) because they change Spirit to spirit in 1 John 5:8.
Which is it in the original Greek text?
Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.
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Other KJV use Spirit and almost every new version will uses Spirit. Also the context seem to mean Holy Spirit.
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Alex Scott said:Harrison Brock said:
I do not like the KJV(1900 PCE) because they change Spirit to spirit in 1 John 5:8.
Which is it in the original Greek text?
spirit- since the originals were nearly always all lowercase.
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Alex Scott said:Harrison Brock said:
I do not like the KJV(1900 PCE) because they change Spirit to spirit in 1 John 5:8.
Which is it in the original Greek text?
I'm far from a Greek scholar, but Scrivener 1881 does emphasize Spirit Πνεῦμα, whereas NA27 and NA28 has Spirit as πνεῦμα.
There is a difference between Spirit and spirit, and the capitalization may confuse some as to the meaning (Holy Spirit or a spirit).
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I see it as Spirit (Holy Spirit). That's why I do not like using the KJV (1900, PCE) that much.
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Harrison Brock said:
I see it as Spirit (Holy Spirit). That's why I do not like using the KJV (1900, PCE) that much.
Yes. For those who may not be aware of the differences in spelling (or the meaning), the "S' and "s" will confuse.
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Hi there
Your question is a very important one for those of us who use the King James Bible as their main authority. While I have ordered the New Cambridge Paragraph Bible (NCPB) with the apocrypha, I’m conscious its product description may imply real differences from the 1769 text. For example, it states:
Although it is the most important book in the English-speaking world’s religious life and culture, the King James Bible (or Authorized Version of 1611) has never been as perfectly represented in print as the translators intended. Standard editions currently give, with little variation, the text as established by the Blayney edition of 1769. This leaves the reader with a seventeenth-century text in mid-eighteenth-century clothes—clothes neither original nor modern.
Edited by David Norton, The New Cambridge Paragraph Bible is an important scholarly edition that presents a revised KJV text based on a thorough evaluation of the textual variants present in current renderings. It includes the extant notes of the 1611 translators.
(See: https://www.logos.com/product/24557/the-new-cambridge-paragraph-bible-with-the-apocrypha-rev-ed)
When a publisher today says they can do better than the traditional King James Bible text or that they have revised that text, I tend to be cautious. In this case the apocrypha is included – and while that is convenient, for conservative theological reasons, I would prefer a King James Bible not to include it. My main object in ordering the NCPB is to allow me to compare versions when needed.
Another issue is the availability of an interlinear when the Bible text is displayed. The Authorised Version in Logos is my strong preference for the 1769 text - and this has the useful Strongs Numbers included, but no interlinear. The KJV (1900) does have an interlinear, but I do not use the volume as I’m less trusting of scholars and publisher changes to the King James Bible the closer the version is dated to 1900 and afterwards.
Currently, to access an interlinear when needed, I fall back on the Cambridge Paragraph Bible edited by F.H.A. Scrivener (1873) as it does have an interlinear and any changes from the King James Bible are listed in the text by the editor. This allows me to check the differences for myself as needed.
In summary - I think the Authorized Version is the best King James Bible (1769) in Logos, followed by the current Cambridge Paragraph Bible edited by F.H.A. Scrivener (1873). Hope these comments may be useful to you.
Keep well
Paul
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It seem like I do not have the " Authorized Version " in my package. I have the KJV(1900) and the Cambridge Paragraph (1873).
For my physical bible I use the KJV Note Takers from the Local Church Bible Publishers.
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Its likely you do have the King James Version (also known as the Authorised Version) somewhere in your package as it seems to be included in most if not all of them. Just in case - see the product at: https://www.logos.com/product/17910/the-holy-bible-king-james-version .
Keep well
Paul
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Harrison Brock said:
Thanks. I do not like the KJV(1900 PCE) because they change Spirit to spirit in 1 John 5:8.
Are you KJV-only?
I don't know of any English translation that I agree with completely. I've found one that I prefer, but this is why original language study is important. There simply cannot exist a perfect translation. Something is always lost in translation.
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Harrison Brock said:
I see it as Spirit (Holy Spirit). That's why I do not like using the KJV (1900, PCE) that much.
Perhaps, like myself, you prefer the original with water and blood also capitalized:
"For there are three that beare record in heauen, the Father, the Word, and the holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8And there are three that beare witnesse in earth, the Spirit, and the Water, and the Blood, and these three agree in one.
9 If we receiue the witnesse of men, the witnesse of God is greater: for this is the witnesse of God, which hee hath testified of his Sonne."
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Hi Paul,Paul said:Its likely you do have the King James Version (also known as the Authorised Version) somewhere in your package as it seems to be included in most if not all of them. Just in case - see the product at: https://www.logos.com/product/17910/the-holy-bible-king-james-version .
Keep well
Paul
That's Pure Cambridge Edition (1900) not the 1769.
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Hi Josh,Josh said:Harrison Brock said:Thanks. I do not like the KJV(1900 PCE) because they change Spirit to spirit in 1 John 5:8.
Are you KJV-only?
I don't know of any English translation that I agree with completely. I've found one that I prefer, but this is why original language study is important. There simply cannot exist a perfect translation. Something is always lost in translation.
I only use the KJV. I would go into more detail but this is not the place to do that.
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My physical bible has all 3 capitalized in 1 John 5:7 and Spirit capitalized in 1John 5:8MJ. Smith said:Harrison Brock said:I see it as Spirit (Holy Spirit). That's why I do not like using the KJV (1900, PCE) that much.
Perhaps, like myself, you prefer the original with water and blood also capitalized:
"For there are three that beare record in heauen, the Father, the Word, and the holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8And there are three that beare witnesse in earth, the Spirit, and the Water, and the Blood, and these three agree in one.
9 If we receiue the witnesse of men, the witnesse of God is greater: for this is the witnesse of God, which hee hath testified of his Sonne."
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Harrison Brock said:
It seem like I do not have the " Authorized Version " in my package. I have the KJV(1900) and the Cambridge Paragraph (1873).
I don't think the 1769 Authorized Version (shown above) is available any longer. Likely the product of a much earlier base package.
See THIS THREAD and BLOG POST for more detailed information.
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Harrison Brock said:I do not like the KJV(1900 PCE) because they change Spirit to spirit in 1 John 5:8.
Visual filter can change spirit to Spirit in 1 John 5:8 and 24 other verses. Search and Visual Filter have Match Case checked:
Keep Smiling [:)]
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Thanks Scott for the blog and thread references - this may certainly explain why the KJV 1769 edition seems to be absent in Harrison's package. I was not aware that version had been discontinued for the new packages and also not currently being sold by Logos. It seems the only reason I have it would be because I bought an earlier package. Keep well Paul
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Hi Harrison
My sincere apologies for misleading you on the availability of the KJV version of 1769 within the later Logos offerings. Despite the assurances contained in the Blog (which Scott has kindly pointed us to) I personally would not regard the KJV (1900) as better or an appropriate substitute for the 1769 version.
It's sobering to think that a Bible many people (not just myself) would regard more than any other as the Word of God has been dumped and is not now available within my favourite Bible research software. God bless you Harrison in your efforts to keep close to God's Word.
Keep well Paul
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You are correct. Logos has removed the AV1769 from current packages. I use the 1769 version when pasting into my sermons, but use the 1900 version for study since it has the interlinear.I do not care for the 1873 version. Logos used to give the AV1769 away free on floppy disks in 1.6 days. Perhaps Logos could provide it as a free download for those interested.
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There is a route that would make it viable for Logos to carry the particular variants of early English Bibles that we may need:
- Logos has established a relationship with Text Creation Partnership
- In partnership with TCP, Early English Books Online http://eebo.chadwyck.com/ has a rather extensive list of Bibles (as per Taliaferro's Encyclopedia of English Language Bible Version)
- With TCP/Faithlife versions and crowd-sourced tagging, many of these Bibles ought to be able to be offered at attractive pricing.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Scott E. Mahle said:Harrison Brock said:
It seem like I do not have the " Authorized Version " in my package. I have the KJV(1900) and the Cambridge Paragraph (1873).
I don't think the 1769 Authorized Version (shown above) is available any longer. Likely the product of a much earlier base package.
See THIS THREAD and BLOG POST for more detailed information.
The Authorized Version 1769 is included in these 2 packages. There may be a few more packages that it's included. Here is the resource information of the copy that I have.
LLS:1.0.3
2014-10-08T23:17:25Z
KJV.logos4The citation information:
The Holy Bible: King James Version. Electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version. Bellingham WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995.
Here are the 2 packages:
https://www.logos.com/product/8582/john-macarthur-essential-bible-study-library
https://www.logos.com/product/9438/amg-bible-essentials
EDIT: Added citation information.
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Erwin Stull, Sr. said:
The Authorized Version 1769 is included in these 2 packages. There may be a few more packages that it's included. Here is the resource information of the copy that I have.
LLS:1.0.3
2014-10-08T23:17:25Z
KJV.logos4The citation information:
The Holy Bible: King James Version. Electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version. Bellingham WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995.
Here are the 2 packages:
https://www.logos.com/product/8582/john-macarthur-essential-bible-study-library
https://www.logos.com/product/9438/amg-bible-essentials
EDIT: Added citation information.
Erwin, are you sure about that?
The KJV listed in the MacArthur bundle seems to be publisher Thomas Nelson with a publication date of 2000. The AMG bundle lacks any information but the description does seem to fit the 1769 version.
I just wouldn’t want anyone to be misled.
Logos Series X Pastor’s Library | Logos 3 Leader’s Library | 4 Portfolio | 5 Platinum | 6 Feature Crossgrade | 7 Essential | 8 M & W Platinum and Academic Professional | 9 Academic Professional and Messianic Jewish Diamond
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Thanks MJ - That would seem like a good solution for the future, particularly if individual Bibles can be purchased rather than as part of a package. Keep well Paul
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Thanks. I wired that Logos does have this bible in a package. I have the Bronze Package.Erwin Stull, Sr. said:Scott E. Mahle said:Harrison Brock said:It seem like I do not have the " Authorized Version " in my package. I have the KJV(1900) and the Cambridge Paragraph (1873).
I don't think the 1769 Authorized Version (shown above) is available any longer. Likely the product of a much earlier base package.
See THIS THREAD and BLOG POST for more detailed information.
The Authorized Version 1769 is included in these 2 packages. There may be a few more packages that it's included. Here is the resource information of the copy that I have.
LLS:1.0.3
2014-10-08T23:17:25Z
KJV.logos4The citation information:
The Holy Bible: King James Version. Electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version. Bellingham WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995.
Here are the 2 packages:
https://www.logos.com/product/8582/john-macarthur-essential-bible-study-library
https://www.logos.com/product/9438/amg-bible-essentials
EDIT: Added citation information.
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Scott E. Mahle said:
Erwin, are you sure about that?
The KJV listed in the MacArthur bundle seems to be publisher Thomas Nelson with a publication date of 2000. The AMG bundle lacks any information but the description does seem to fit the 1769 version.
I just wouldn’t want anyone to be misled.
Hi Scott; I am pretty sure, unless Logos has changed the included resource (AV) of the packages. I purchased these back in the L4 days. It's a shame that we can't get the resource ID of the resources included in a particular package. I'll see if I can verify from my original orders.
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Erwin Stull, Sr. said:
It's a shame that we can't get the resource ID of the resources included in a particular package. I'll see if I can verify from my original orders.
Resource ID’s on all of them would be great! Especially in cases like this where you have so many similar titles.
I don’t have either one of those bundles so I’ve got no way to check. My copy probably came from my old Series X Library.
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Scott E. Mahle said:
Erwin, are you sure about that?
The KJV listed in the MacArthur bundle seems to be publisher Thomas Nelson with a publication date of 2000. The AMG bundle lacks any information but the description does seem to fit the 1769 version.
I just wouldn’t want anyone to be misled.
I just checked my original orders.
The filename of the Authorized Version that was included with the 2 packages is KJV.lbxlls. I do have the KJV1900 that was included with a base package, and that filename is KJV1900.lbxlls.
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Harrison Brock said:
Thanks. I wired that Logos does have this bible in a package. I have the Bronze Package.Erwin Stull, Sr. said:Scott E. Mahle said:Harrison Brock said:It seem like I do not have the " Authorized Version " in my package. I have the KJV(1900) and the Cambridge Paragraph (1873).
I don't think the 1769 Authorized Version (shown above) is available any longer. Likely the product of a much earlier base package.
See THIS THREAD and BLOG POST for more detailed information.
The Authorized Version 1769 is included in these 2 packages. There may be a few more packages that it's included. Here is the resource information of the copy that I have.
LLS:1.0.3
2014-10-08T23:17:25Z
KJV.logos4The citation information:
The Holy Bible: King James Version. Electronic ed. of the 1769 edition of the 1611 Authorized Version. Bellingham WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1995.
Here are the 2 packages:
https://www.logos.com/product/8582/john-macarthur-essential-bible-study-library
https://www.logos.com/product/9438/amg-bible-essentials
EDIT: Added citation information.
Hi Harrison; Unless Logos has changes the resource versions within the packages, the Authorized Version 1769 should still be included. I guess the only way to know for sure is to contact Logos before purchase. See my other replies concerning this.
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Also, remember that Logos does have a 30 day return policy. So you can return the resource if it is not what you want.
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I posted this in another thread:
In Logos Bible Software, the "Authorized Version" is the 1769 edition while the "King James Version" is the c.1900 edition commonly called the "Pure Cambridge Edition".
The differences amount to some slight variations in spelling, capitalizations, punctuation, and use of italics. For example, try searching for "inquire" and "enquire" in both editions using Logos.A few other examples include:
Ezra 2:26 (Spelling)
Gaba (AV)
Geba (KJV1900)
1 John 5:8 (Capitalization)
Spirit (AV)
spirit (KJV1900)
Romans 4:18 (Punctuation)
nations, according (AV)
nations; according (KJV1900)
2 Samuel 18:29 (Italics)
Is (AV)
Is (KJV1900)
See http://www.bibleprotector.com/editions.htm for a more complete listing.Logos 10 | Faithlife Connect Essentials
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