Why subscription
Comments
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Author of the Chronological Word Truth Life Bible Series
WordTruthLifeBible.com
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MJ. Smith said:
There are a number of resources that can be rented.
I haven't checked those out. Are they individual books? If so, I know I'd be more interested in renting/subscribing for a collection rather than individual books. Is there a page of books available for rent?
Author of the Chronological Word Truth Life Bible Series
WordTruthLifeBible.com
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Sorry, I just run into a rent tab now and then but haven't really watched which resources have the option https://www.logos.com/rentals should have the details.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
Sorry, I just run into a rent tab now and then but haven't really watched which resources have the option https://www.logos.com/rentals should have the details.
Awesome Thanks! [:)] I own most of what's on that page and what I don't own is affordable enough to purchase. But I would be interested in renting the classic commentaries for a month or two since they're very pricey and on my wish list. That set represents my interests for a subscription....huge pricey commentary collections!
Author of the Chronological Word Truth Life Bible Series
WordTruthLifeBible.com
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Cynthia Tucker said:
But I would be interested in renting the classic commentaries for a month or two since they're very pricey and on my wish list. That set represents my interests for a subscription....huge pricey commentary collections!
I wasn't sure from your comment whether you knew the classic set was available to rent - https://www.logos.com/product/33554/the-complete-classic-commentaries-bundle
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Graham Criddle said:
I wasn't sure from your comment whether you knew the classic set was available to rent - https://www.logos.com/product/33554/the-complete-classic-commentaries-bundle
Yes, thank you. I saw it on the rental page on the 3rd or 4th page, so now I've got that on my Logos to-do list: Rent Classic Commentaries. [:D]
Author of the Chronological Word Truth Life Bible Series
WordTruthLifeBible.com
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Graham Criddle said:
I wasn't sure from your comment whether you knew the classic set was available to rent - https://www.logos.com/product/33554/the-complete-classic-commentaries-bundle
Good that this set is available for rent, but it needs to be broken down to individual books. Can't imagine having a need for the whole enchilada at once. I would probably rent the Petrine epistles for a few months, but not the whole set just to get at a book or two.
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I'm not sure if there is yet enough in Logos Now that's worth $10 per month. Maybe there already is, however ...
What I am sure of is that by supporting this and seeing it grow, I'll get back much more than $10 per month in extra value from the library I have already paid for.
I have hand tools I know I own, but can't currently find. If I have one of the $20 things to adjust the widget on the bottom left of a thingy, but can't find it, its kind of the same as not having it.
In like manner, if I have some resources in my Logos library but no kind of search or lookup finds it, its rather the same as not having it. So anything that lets me find and extract from what I've already got is very important. I believe the Logos Now subscription is already or soon will be far more valuable to me than the $10.
(Now if only I could perform searches in Logos to find the tool to fix the leaky widget under the floor ...)
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Bob,
I get the impression that this is beta software, kind of like "early access" in games. I could be wrong; things are not clear. The web app is the only thing in it that interests me, however, and I cannot afford to pay more on a monthly basis. My question is, since this is a beta access are there any plans for features like the web app to be available to non-subscribing users, or are we stuck with biblia.com?
Thanks,
Kenneth
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The web app is beta software, yes. The other features are not.Kenneth Gardner said:Bob,
I get the impression that this is beta software, kind of like "early access" in games. I could be wrong; things are not clear. The web app is the only thing in it that interests me, however, and I cannot afford to pay more on a monthly basis. My question is, since this is a beta access are there any plans for features like the web app to be available to non-subscribing users, or are we stuck with biblia.com?
Thanks,
Kenneth
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Thank you, David.
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In addition to what David wrote: "Logos Now" should not be viewed as software (it isn't) but a service... With a growing number of benefits... Which includes early access to non-beta features as one of the benefits.Kenneth Gardner said:Bob,
I get the impression that this is beta software, kind of like "early access" in games. I could be wrong; things are not clear. The web app is the only thing in it that interests me, however, and I cannot afford to pay more on a monthly basis. My question is, since this is a beta access are there any plans for features like the web app to be available to non-subscribing users, or are we stuck with biblia.com?
Thanks,
Kenneth
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Thanks, Alabama. The other features don't interest me as much as the possibility of being able to use some of my favorite tools in the web app. It might well be worth it for me if I could click on a word and get a pop-up lexicon entry when reading another language (or better yet something like the info panel). That service is the main one I'm interested in, and since I'm maxed out, am hoping eventually makes its way to all users.
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I suspect we are a good ways away from that.Kenneth Gardner said:Thanks, Alabama. The other features don't interest me as much as the possibility of being able to use some of my favorite tools in the web app. It might well be worth it for me if I could click on a word and get a pop-up lexicon entry when reading another language (or better yet something like the info panel). That service is the main one I'm interested in, and since I'm maxed out, am hoping eventually makes its way to all users.
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Bob Pritchett said:
We intend to make Logos Now such a compelling offer that you voluntarily subscribe because it's a such a good deal, even if you hate subscriptions. We plan to bribe you with goodness and value.
Ha.... This describes me. I don't like subscriptions until I saw the Systematic theology tool. When that comes out, I am in
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"We intend to make Logos Now such a compelling offer that you voluntarily subscribe because it's a such a good deal, even if you hate subscriptions. We plan to bribe you with goodness and value.
Which pretty much says it all doesn't it. If you've been buying your resources, don't expect the full features unless you're prepare to pay more from now on - otherwise how can they bribe you to subscribe with goodness and value?
Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.
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Alex Scott said:
Which pretty much says it all doesn't it. If you've been buying your resources, don't expect the full features unless you're prepare to pay more from now on - otherwise how can they bribe you to subscribe with goodness and value?
That isn't fair or accurate to what Bob has written:
- Some features will be available in future versions via your preferred method (base package or cross grade purchase). Logos now provides advanced (subscription use) of the features while they are being built out (not "beta," but "in development").
- Some features will perhaps not be available for purchase because it makes more sense as a "service." Visual Copy features seem to be a good example of that.
- The "bribing" can take many forms (i.e. discounts, free books, early access, etc).
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Alex Scott said:
Which pretty much says it all doesn't it. If you've been buying your resources, don't expect the full features unless you're prepare to pay more from now on - otherwise how can they bribe you to subscribe with goodness and value?
Alex, don't forget, Faithlife is a business. They need revenue. Revenue comes from sales, subscriptions, rentals, etc. If subscriptions don't generate enough revenue, or they believe they can get even more revenue from sales or a combination of sales and subscriptions, or they can mange on just subscription income, they will make decisions based on these beliefs.
What I am saying is that nothing now is certain. Faithlife is trying some new revenue models. They may or may not generate the revenue they hope for. In the end, revenue drives the business. What they end up doing (even if contrary to Bob's current hope) will be determined by revenue not by what they'd like to accomplish. If not enough people subscribe they will have to look elsewhere for revenue or scale back the business.
I will add that personally $90 a year is chump change compared to many of the resources I have purchased in the last year. I realize that may not be true for many people, but even if that were a long-term on-going expense, it would pale in comparison to my purchasing expenditures. So I do hope Bob makes the subscription model irresistible.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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I do not plan on subscribing to Now as it doesn't offer anything I need. But let me offer up a suggestion.
With the negative feedback regarding this Now subscription I suggest Logos should simplify. In my opinion the Now subscription is just one more confusion thrown into the mix. Imagine a new Logos user trying to figure out... okay, I need the engine, then there are these things called base packages... then we have these data sets and crossgrades... and then there is this subscription to Now which is some sort of addon on top of the whole thing.
Simplify.
Offer a subscription to the latest engine + most complete cross-grade at $8.99 a month. That sounds really nice doesn't it? A nice steady stream of income, less confusion, no complaints about lack of content justifying the price, the Logos team can continue to crank out new features based on the revenue stream, and customers can still opt to buy the engine and cross-grade outright if desired. Also, this works just like Netflix. If you stop subscribing, just like Netflix, you lose any content you don't own. But whatever you purchased (engine, crossgrades, resources) you obviously retain.
Would I subscribe to this? Well, I currently own the latest data sets in 6 at the level I need. But if Logos made such a subscription model and committed to regularly introduce new features and data sets for my $8.99 a month, then I would subscribe in a heartbeat. It'd never have to worry about buying a cross-grade or engine again, woohoo!
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Matt Zimmerman said:
Offer a subscription to the latest engine + most complete cross-grade at $8.99 a month. That sounds really nice doesn't it? A nice steady stream of income, less confusion, no complaints about lack of content justifying the price, the Logos team can continue to crank out new features based on the revenue stream, and customers can still opt to buy the engine and cross-grade outright if desired. Also, this works just like Netflix. If you stop subscribing, just like Netflix, you lose any content you don't own. But whatever you purchased (engine, crossgrades, resources) you obviously retain.
Would I subscribe to this? Well, I currently own the latest data sets in 6 at the level I need. But if Logos made such a subscription model and committed to regularly introduce new features and data sets for my $8.99 a month, then I would subscribe in a heartbeat. It'd never have to worry about buying a cross-grade or engine again, woohoo!
Seems that you have just described Logos Now.
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Where does it say you get all the datasets in Logos?
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Matt Zimmerman said:
Where does it say you get all the datasets in Logos?
I don't know all the "in's and out's," but from my understanding, "Logos Now" is for users who already have purchased base packages... going forward, you will have access to future data sets.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Some clarification from Logos would be nice then.
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The easiest way is to call Logos, using Plain Ole Telephone System, Skype or other social media and talk to a sales representative.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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Matt Zimmerman said:
Some clarification from Logos would be nice then.
Matt, Logos Now is intended for Logos 6 owners (of Gold or Feature Crossgrade and higher). It gets you (1) access to all the new dataset, media, and interactive content we're creating, (2) early access to new features, (3) month-long access to featured book content, (4) access to the beta of the Logos web app, and (5) membership benefits like exclusive discounts and offers. We have much more planned that we'll be rolling out over the coming months.
Logos Now doesn't include anything that was already in Logos 6. It builds on top of it. If you don't have Logos 6 yet, you'll get the best experience by moving to Logos 6 Gold or Feature Crossgrade (or higher) and then subscribing to Logos Now.
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Up to now , I don' t see much exciting on Logos now , but what I can see is some how a little bit on the concordance. What is more? Perhaps there could be something better which I have missed.
Blessings in Christ.
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I totally agree with you Jeffrey. I was told the same thing, only to fine out that with each level upgrade, they've tried to sell me an upgrade which was averaging between $1500 to $2,200. I don't get it.
Logos Now, has only been the recycling of a previous months offer.
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Welcome to the forums Maurice! [:)]
Rev. Maurice A. Bates said:Logos Now, has only been the recycling of a previous months offer.
I don't think I understand what you are trying to say. Logos Now introduces NEW features to users early (i.e. "now"). How is that "recycling of a previous month's offer"?
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
"for the foreseeable future"? That's scary.
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Well, I read the vast majority of the posts. I just want to cast my vote. I personally do NOT like this subscription model and would prefer to purchase Logos 7 this Fall.
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Josh said:
I personally do NOT like this subscription model and would prefer to purchase Logos 7 this Fall.
Everything from FL has indicated that to be the case... (with the exception of L7 release date, which is anyone's guess).
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
If LOGOS feels so strongly toward the positive benefit (s) of subscription why then is not Bible Study Magazine available via subscription for those who would like it? Other subscription based magazines offer it.
Doer of Things
Logos 7 Bronze
13" MBA 1.7 GHz Intel Core i7, 8 RAM, 512 SSD
27" iMAC 3.1 GHz Intel Core i5, 8 RAM, 1TB SATA Disk
iPad Air 2, iPhone 6
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Rich said:
why then is not Bible Study Magazine available via subscription for those who would like it?
<scratches head>
Surely you must know that BSM is available by subscription... https://www.logos.com/product/4220/bible-study-magazine?utm_source=biblestudymagazine.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=subscribebutton&utm_campaign=bsm15
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Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
alabama24 said:Rich said:
why then is not Bible Study Magazine available via subscription for those who would like it?
<scratches head>
Surely you must know that BSM is available by subscription... https://www.logos.com/product/4220/bible-study-magazine?utm_source=biblestudymagazine.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_content=subscribebutton&utm_campaign=bsm15
I was thinking he maybe meant digital subscription?
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Sorry for the confusion. Yes, digital subscription.
Doer of Things
Logos 7 Bronze
13" MBA 1.7 GHz Intel Core i7, 8 RAM, 512 SSD
27" iMAC 3.1 GHz Intel Core i5, 8 RAM, 1TB SATA Disk
iPad Air 2, iPhone 6
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Rich said:
Yes, digital subscription
Would you REALLY want a digital subscription, or would you want the ability to own a digital copy which integrates with your Logos library? Do you want a nicely laid out PDF copy, or a flowing text copy?
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
alabama24 said:
Would you REALLY want a digital subscription, or would you want the ability to own a digital copy which integrates with your Logos library?
I want ONLY a digital copy integrated into my Logos library. Paper copies are useless to me with my eyesight problems.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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A digital flowing copy integrated into LOGOS would be nice.
Doer of Things
Logos 7 Bronze
13" MBA 1.7 GHz Intel Core i7, 8 RAM, 512 SSD
27" iMAC 3.1 GHz Intel Core i5, 8 RAM, 1TB SATA Disk
iPad Air 2, iPhone 6
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Rich said:
A digital flowing copy integrated into LOGOS would be nice.
OK, now we are getting somewhere. I agree with you 100%, as do many other users. The confusion came when you tied it to Logos Now.
Above you question FL's addition of the "subscription" model. A subscription to a print magazine and a subscription to a "service" are very different things. Once you stop subscripting to a service, you lose all benefits. FL's commitment to a subscription service and the creation of a electronic version of the magazine are completely unrelated.
It sounds like you want a "Logos Edition" (or perhaps Vyrso Edition) of BSM. (I do too). The other option would be for FL to create a digital version (PDF or similar format) of the print magazine, but that wouldn't integrate to your library. In any case, I bet you still wouldn't want a subscription service to BSM (you would lose access once you stop subscribing)... you would want to own it. Right?
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
Josh said:
Well, I read the vast majority of the posts. I just want to cast my vote. I personally do NOT like this subscription model and would prefer to purchase Logos 7 this Fall.
Do you mean across the board--do you use it at all?
I myself get a bit antsy with the myriad of subscriptions that there are to be had nowadays. Although I do utilize some (mostly entertainment like Spotify, Amazon (includes fast shipping) Netflix (just cancelled after a couple years) in addition to Logos Now.
Logos now is great if you want the tools without having to wait--and I like the feature of getting resources "on loan" for a while. A nice bonus. This last month I have been perusing the books on Romans 9 and Michael Heiser's book Supernatural. I may or may not buy them, but I sure liked having access.
I'll likely upgrade to 7, too, and "own" it.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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This was probably answered somewhere else, but I did not see it.
I have the Gold package. I got it because it seems to include everything, and was a major investment that I really could not afford. When I had the lesser packages, every so many years you would offer an update to the package. This update would include a lot of new content and features. I realize having the Logos Now subscription will get me all updates of the content I already have, but what happens when the Gold package is updated to include new content and/or features? I am retired, and studying to potentially become an Elder. I have a hard time justifying the money for the subscription, and will not be able to purchase an update.
I hope that question was clear. I realize I tend to babble on.
Thanks in advance
- Gary
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Gary Graham said:
I have the Gold package. I got it because it seems to include everything, and was a major investment that I really could not afford. When I had the lesser packages, every so many years you would offer an update to the package.
(somewhat reading between the lines:)
1. If you need to, you can just stay with that Gold package. Logos has made it so that you can always upgrade to the newest "engine" (like from Logos 5 to Logos 6--and sometime in the near future, we think, to Logos 7). That will make it so that you can always use your books and tools that you have purchased from Logos. note: what you won't get will be extra/new functions that they develop for newer versions. You just won't lose anything.
Gary Graham said:I realize having the Logos Now subscription will get me all updates of the content I already have,
To clarify: they give you brand new things: new datasets, new tools, as well as new books every month that you "rent" for about 3 months and can have the option of purchasing at a discount at the end of the month. So in some sense, it is not an "update" of what you "have" but it is an update with often brand new things. But you will lose those new things if you stop your subscription. But, if I understand correctly, when the new version of Logos comes out for purchase, it would have those previous Logos Now functions as part of the package that you would now own. However, Logos Now would continue, if you had the subscription, offering new content every few weeks, that would then come out in Logos 8 (presumably).
Gary Graham said:but what happens when the Gold package is updated to include new content and/or features?
I think I answered that, but just to clarify: if you don't purchase that "new" Gold, you still are able to use all of what you have already purchased. You will get periodic and free updates of your "engine," but nothing new. Kind of like a car: Logos will let you bring in your 82 Grand Marquis and give you a tune up, maybe replace the carburetor if it is broken, but they won't give you a free inboard computer with on-star navigation or a new roof rack. But you can still drive your car as you always have.
hope that helps some.I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Friedrich said:
new books every month that you "rent" for about 3 months and can have the option of purchasing at a discount at the end of the month.
I am a Logos Now subscriber and for this month they are offering "The Book of Acts in the Setting of Hellenistic History" but I don't see any discount for this book. It is listed at 49.99 and I would like to buy it. When do they offer the discount and how do I get it? https://www.logos.com/product/49615/the-book-of-acts-in-the-setting-of-hellenistic-history
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Toward the end of the month you will get an email with the code for the discounts John.
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Bob Pritchett said:
ou'd live with the typos, and ten years later you'd still own it, with no further expense, but you'd then own a ten-year-old dictionary that didn't reflect any fixes, corrections, or new contributions.
I have a question:What is the percentage of user feedback for typo's versus logos employee 'found on the job, and not a subcontractor in a different country'?
If users provide the majority of feedback to improve the quality of resources, and if this feedback goes back into improving the 'processes to convert the hard copies to electronic copies, then it seems a little unfair for you to feel like you 'did all the work' and don't get paid. (* I remember giving feedback on a book in libronix 3 *, no thanks or payment was given to me )
in this sense: fair enough if you publish this information to the general public (as a public domain report) that is: all the 'correction' feedback you have been given for free from users, otherwise, it is an invaluable resource for you exclusively.
i'd comment on more unfair(s) but too much along that line might make me seem like I didn't read your post (... mostly to be fair).
Perhaps so you can get my comment in perspective though: I support a pay once model, and disagree about it being a 1990 model. I think the subscription model is like paying rich people for electrical bills from solar power after they have get their costs covered, and wages, and a fair maintenance fee. the rich seem to think the poor should pay them for air afterward sometimes. (not saying you, or Logos have this precise perspective toward customers, I am just bringing it up ... since I am poor )
( and I also don't support a 'always online' dependency, so my views are generated from a desire to not be abused by every 'rich business passer by' )
thanks if you take the time to read this over. (from a person having studied Software Development at university (completing 2/3 years, etc..)
William
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***Logos Now is designed to give you early access to new features as they are made, as well as previews of resources. There is not a plan to apply a discount towards the next version. Logos now is not designed specifically for just “the next version” we will be continuing that early access and resource preview well past our next full release, so it will continue to be a benefit to those who are looking for the latest and greatest. *** It is therefore to the benefit of the customer of Logos.
BUT: As I see it and Bob Pritchett (- It provides more predictable revenue. Upgrades every few years bring in a nice hit of cash, but that cash gets used over time. Historically (long in the past) we got to the point of worrying about payroll and the rent as we neared the next product release. It's a scary and dangerous way to live, going feast to famine over and over. There's value to having revenue come in smoothly over time -- because most expenses for digital products companies are also smooth over time. (Payroll is the most significant -- we don't have physical inputs like metal or wood or other commodities.), it is to the benefit of Logos.
I therefore cannot see why the customer cannot get any benefit of their subscription to Logos Now. Logos is working with the money of the subscribers of Logos Now.
Why can the customer not benefit of the subscription?
And let me tell you this:
I – and most of Logo’s customers – are willing to subscribe to Logos Now if Logos AND the customer will benefit.
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I took a poll of most of Logos customers (that'd be me), and ....
I'll be curious to see what Now did to the upgrade model. The only way one could figure it out is 'data'. Therefore, Logos should tell us the customer data, so we can assist Logos in the proper decision.
For me, Now got me used to not having L7 features. And if I sign off on not crosgrading, I'll likely not crossgrade the next round ... too expensive. Core + books.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Ahhh - the good old days when a choice of Chocolate or Vanilla were offered! 😎
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Frank, you cheated (yes, joking!). I was preparing for a good nights rest, checked my watch for emails, texts, and yes, the forum. And there was a new post from Bob!? I thought, gee … is it getting so rough, Bob has been asked to step in, and shore up the subscription strategy? That did concern me, since it appears, it NEEDS TO WORK (even if I'm not a fan).
Interesting the dates. And I just LOVE the phrase 'foreseeable future'. Mark uses that too. It seems to calculate out to 'next few years'. Kind of like in ancient times 'eternal' was 'a long time'.
ADDED: This is why I'd like to see last poster and direct link. Ha.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Fast forward 9 years later and here we are paying $9.99 per month or $99.99 per year for Logos Pro 😂😂😂
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