Why subscription

Graham Criddle said:

Joseph Turner said:

I don't understand what one gets for the subscription price.  Is it just features within the software, as well as possibly some Lexham resources, or are we talking about other resources?

Phil explains what we get in the current release at https://community.logos.com/forums/p/103245/713695.aspx#713695 (reproduced below)

What is Logos Now?

1. It’s a subscription-based service.
2. It’s content and tools for serious Bible study.
3. It builds on top of Logos 6.
4. It’s continually growing and getting regular updates.
5. It’s access to the future of Logos Bible Software, today.
6. It's a membership program.

What do you get with Logos Now?

1. A growing library of data, media, and interactive content.
2. Early access to new features and tools.
3. Access to the beta of the new Logos web app.
4. Special membership benefits such as exclusive offers, special discounts, and more.

What does the first release include?

1. Old Testament Propositional Bible Outlines (dataset)
2. Greek Grammatical Constructions (dataset)
3. Commandments of the Law (interactive)
4. Visual Copy Templates (media)
5. Author Slide Templates (media)
6. Logos Stock Images, vol. 2 (media)
7. Media Browser (tool)
8. Concordance (tool)
9. Access to the beta of the Logos web app
10. Membership benefits (e.g., exclusive offers, special discounts)

We'll continue to add more value to it over time. More details forthcoming.

Joseph Turner said:

Surely one can't now, or ever get access to the whole Logos catalog for $8.99 a month.

No - that isn't what this is about.

From the FAQ page at https://www.logos.com/faq#LogosNow 

Do I need to own a Logos 6 base package to useLogos Now?

Logos 6 Feature Crossgrade, Gold, or higher will provide an optimal experience with Logos Now.

Get Logos 6 Feature Crossgrade

Upgrade to Logos 6 Gold

I already own a base package. Why Logos Now?

Think of Logos Now as an add-on to your Logos 6 base package. A Logos 6 base package is still the best way to build a library of resources you own. Logos Now provides additional value to your library with the latest content, features, datasets, interactives, and media.

Thanks Graham!  I haven't had a chance to read all of the threads.

Bob Pritchett said:

...we plan to offer a 'supplemental' subscription product called Logos Now with such a compelling value proposition that even people who prefer ownership models subscribe to at least this. 

Hope you find this helpful feedback, at this moment I am not seeing the "compelling value". While it is fun to use some of the Logos 7 features early, at the 90% discount that Logos base packages go for it is hard to justify spending $8.99 per month. The value of the books I desire to own in the base packages always exceeds the upgrade price, so in a sense if I wait 18 or so months I will get all the data sets and add-on for free! The $8.99 value has to be found in the value of the media, services and discounts, not in the value of getting to use Logos 7 features early. Does this make sense?

Bob Pritchett said:

Jeffrey S. Robison said:

I called customer service and they would not even say that there would be a Logos 7.

We have very few policies as a company, but one is "don't say anything about a product that hasn't shipped!" 

So our CS agent was just following this policy; there's no need to try and 'read the tea leaves.' There's no big conspiracy or master plan that we all know internally and are keeping from you. Just a bunch of people doing our work every day, making plans, changing plans, listening to customers, coming up with ideas, etc. And as 'regular people', we have no more future-predicting abilities than you. :-)

If you walked into a Ford dealership and asked "With the 2017 model have Apple CarPlay integration? Or a V-8 option?" and they said "I can't promise that", it likely doesn't reflect their plans in any way. It reflects that the person on the sales floor hasn't been told, and that the person who IS planning on CarPlay integration may change their mind before then based on user adoption or market forces or budget, and the V-8 decision may be made two months before tooling starts based on gas prices that year.

Is there going to be a Logos 7? I think so. (And even saying that scares me... please don't come back and pummel me later if something changes.) It follow pretty naturally on Logos 3, 4, 5, and 6. It makes sense. But hey, maybe the Apple Watch changes the world and we all stop using laptops and just talk into our wrists while receiving text via corneal implants....

Jeffrey S. Robison said:

I find it really hard to believe that the implementation of this subscription service is occurring without a clear "yes" or "no" on whether there will be a Logos 7 or 8 or...

Why do you find this hard to believe? I think it's actually quite reasonable that A) companies try things, and tend not to announce future product plans far in advance (for risk of warning competitors, deferring present sales, making promises they end up not keeping, and simply not knowing the future).

Jeffrey S. Robison said:

What is the future vision and direction of Faithlife?

Again, I feel like we're as clear as we possibly can be about this, and that I've been completely transparent in this thread and others. (Calling the front-line customer service agent and demanding to know if they can promise an unannounced product release two (?) years in the future isn't really fair, and when they can't, shouldn't count against transparency.)

We plan to support our existing ownership model indefinitely while offering new subscription models for people who prefer them, and we plan to offer a 'supplemental' subscription product called Logos Now with such a compelling value proposition that even people who prefer ownership models subscribe to at least this. 

I'm sorry that part of the transparency is saying "we think" and "we plan", not "we promise", but if I was confidently asserting that I could tell you how technology products / business-models / platforms / trends were going to be a few years from now, you'd have other reasons to think poorly of us. :-)

Mr. Pritchett,

Thank you for your response.

I am not complaining, I am not skeptical about being able to access the resources already purchased. I have always been very supportive and an early adopter of new technology, especially those that enhance ministry. Let me say this very clearly - "I love me some Logos Bible Software." I am just asking questions. I am voicing my concerns about future interactions based on past experiences. I believe that is a fair practice.

I have continued to "voice" my support of what is now Faithlife by buying more product. I will subscribe to Logos Now... period. I am not "thinking poorly" of you. I personally know how hard it is to develop a product, support a product, and field questions about what will be added (or taken away) in the future. The CS agent said to me, "I don't even know if there will be a Logos 7" in context to the launch of a subscription plan. That is completely different than saying the company policy is to not discuss products that haven't shipped. The discussion about a product that has not shipped was already happening here. The questions about the what the features of and even if there will be Logos as we know were raised in this thread, which precipitated my call and subsequent posts.

I have faith in your leadership of Faithlife and I am benefiting daily from the quality of the scholars and programmers you have hired. I hope that you do not take my questions or concerns as insulting. Logos is a huge part of my ministry and school workflows, so naturally I am interested in its future. I also know that you and the other Faithlife employees are earning a living for your families, so I do not mind paying for what I use.

A suggestion that I have in regard to the Logos Now subscription would be to bundle the Proclaim Pro Media (I already subscribe to that) along with it. You may gain more subscribers to Logos Now and to the Proclaim service. Presentations seem to be a direction that Logos Now is already leaning.

I am sure that Faithlife will deliver a completely unique, relevant, and useful ministry tool. You always have. Please accept my apologies if I upset or insulted you. That was never my intention.

Kindest regards,

Jeff

Veli Voipio said:

I still hesitate. This reminds me when 30 years ago in Ethiopia if I wanted to buy Coke I had to buy several tomatoes, too. 

Bob Pritchett said:

I realize I'm starting to come across a little annoyed... my apologies.

Bob, I don't think the problem is necessarily with Logos Now, as it sounds like it will probably work pretty well for many.  I think the problem is the way you guys roll out new ideas and software.  The Logos 6 release should be the standard for all releases as far as I'm concerned.  No one knew that there was going to be a release until it happened (a select few did of course), and you guys released multiple pages of "new feature: _______" posts that explained in detail how everything worked.  Logos employees noted many times that this was to make sure everyone knew as much information as possible on the front end in order not to repeat the past.  For just about everything else you guys kind of stumble in, and then the uncertainty causes all of this frustration.  Information comes slowly, and many details aren't even decided yet.  If the information about Logos Now had been spelled out in great detail on the front end (with complete details already ironed out), then you wouldn't have to be here answering all of these questions.  I appreciated the fact that you are willing to answer questions, but you really shouldn't have to in this case.  

I love Logos Bible Software, and you guys have done so many things right.  I just think you get excited and put the cart before the horse sometimes.  I also think that Logos users are passionate and quick to jump, but that is due to the amount of money that users have invested in the product.

Tesfaye Haile said:

I personally fully agree to this rational. Logs continued existence can only be insured if there is a revenue that helps the company to support its employees and the refurbish and maintain its logistics.

Tesfaye Haile

I agree with you 100% Brother Tesfaye.

Steve said:

I wanted to say that all the Q&A has been very helpful to me in thinking through everything Now.  I have decided to subscribe to the Verbum flavor of this service in light of the datasets and media primarily, not so much as for the tools although who knows.  As has been mentioned by others, I too tend to see more value in resources that I own, but I am perceiving some benefit here also in that there is mention of special offers for Now subscribers.  I may be reading too much into it, but my hope would be some discounts down the road on resources that I would own.

Thanks for all the discussion.  Truly.

Bruce Dunning said:

Bob Pritchett said:

We intend to make Logos Now such a compelling offer that you voluntarily subscribe because it's a such a good deal, even if you hate subscriptions.

That's a great goal and shows your commitment to making Logos Now even more appealing in the months ahead.

Veli Voipio said:

I assume that the answer to my question is already somewhere, but I haven't come across it. If I start the free subscription tentatively will it load datasets (like the propositional outline) to my computer and if I cancel the subscription, will it remove the datasets?

I think it will, but it is possible to get it in the release of Logos 7.

I write this having not read all 81 preceding posts.

I welcome the subscription channel, Logos Now seems timely to me.

I read through the original post, to which I am responding.

I read Don't worry, and that Faithlife is "preparing to support both models so that we can offer you more for less and address the needs of people who like both models".

Bob Pritchett said:We intend to support our existing purchase model for the foreseeable future.

If I infer - We have no plans to stop supporting our existing purchase model - am I correctly understanding your plain meaning?

Faithlife has seemingly maintained viability while many other entities pursuing the same or similar enterprises have failed or faltered. The company has grown even as it competes with much more substantially capitalized entities sharing the same market space. This history gives me the confidence to continue expending my personal capital on goods and services Faithlife offers.

 EDIT: In an earlier post Bob Pritchett provided further clarification that addresses my concern.

Bob Pritchett said:

We plan to support our existing ownership model indefinitely while offering new subscription models for people who prefer them, and we plan to offer a 'supplemental' subscription product called Logos Now with such a compelling value proposition that even people who prefer ownership models subscribe to at least this. 

I won't claim that it's rational but I'm satisfied with support provided indefinitely when support for the foreseeable future unsettled me.

Bob Pritchett said:

We'll continue -- as we have for 23 years -- to try and do right by all our users.

I know this to be a trustworthy statement.

Friedrich said:

JAL said:

Bob Pritchett said:

We'll continue -- as we have for 23 years -- to try and do right by all our users.

I know this to be a trustworthy statement.

... and this has been my experience.  

I agree that it comes down to this.  I have also had this experience.

Denise said:

Bible study really has a major expansion in the future.

This is the only line of your post I agree with.

I trust Bob to be a major part of that major expansion.

First Mr Pritchett thank you for being honest about having a steady flow of money coming in. I have been a libronix /Logos user basically since day one, I have spent a lot of money with your company over $11,000. But please DO NOT think for one second that renting a house is better than paying a mortgage and building equity and having something to sell. I do not agree with this model that you are trying to push. I think every two years was to often to put out a new upgrade, it seems that you hit the nail on the head when you say you want/need money, money, money.

Denise said:

Well, I don't trust Bob.  Never have.  And for good reason.  Bob tries to satisfy 'most' customers (contra his 'all' customers).  And so does Walmart.

Trusting Bob (absent a commitment) is irrelevant for a strategic issue ... the better issue is 'most customers'.

Denise, the way I see it, Bob = Faithlife = Logos. If you do not trust Bob (thus, Faithlife, thus Logos), then you probably are doing business with the wrong company. Maybe you would find that trusting WordSearch is a much more viable option for you. While I love those guys at WS, I do know that I would NEVER be happy  using their framework as my primary method of research. Why? Because:

1) They have not proven themselves to be the risk taker that Bob is. Meaning, they have not been bold enough to push the envelope, bring new methodologies and technologies to the table, and motivate their customer base into a relationship steeped in loyalty. People do business with WS because of price ALONE; they do business with FL and Logos because of Bob, the innovation he brings to the table, and the trust they have in him and his product over the long haul. Bob = Faithlife = Trust [and no, this is not a paid political advertisement, LOL]. 

2) I cannot rely on WS, or other platforms, to be available to me like I can Logos. Its taxing to see the complaints that come in when there's an occasional downtime or hiccup, although such occurrences are SO SO rare, especially if you have had to experience other platforms and their FREQUENT downtimes or software fails!! 

3) There simply is no comparison between Logos and other platforms, by a long shot! While I, like many others, do get frustrated with Logos too [such as when the Logos 4 morphologies disappeared in the move to v5 with no notice, explanation, or hope of getting them back --UGH--  and I CONTINUE to be disappointed by that loss of a wonderful feature!!], yet I know that in the end Logos is as good as it gets and they stand behind what they offer, Just because I am upset about something (and boy did that upset me!!), I do not have the right to attack someone's character, especially the founder of the company, simply because I interpret  disappointments or frustrations as a violation of my trust. That's simply unfair and categorically not the Christian way to resolve concerns!  

I've seen several of your posts in other places that seem to hint at or directly assert that Logos is shady and doing business "under the table," such as this one:

"I think a knee-jerk answer might be because the duo are not putting all the cards on the table.   Customers start scrooching down, to see what's in the oher hand, under the table." (Editorial note: Typo is the original author's, not mine)

As you know, given the vast amounts of forum posts under your belt, most of the major publishers and scholars utilize Logos over any other platforms, which speaks volumes of the level of trust the Christian academic world places in ol' "untrustworthy" Bob. If he were so untrustworthy, why would so many ministries, churches, seminaries, publishers, scholars, etc, in the Christian world seek his advice, partnership, cooperation, and relationship? Why would hundreds of new customers come on board each month while hundreds of thousands of users CONTINUE to support Logos? How could FL enjoy so much success, and thus favor from the Lord, if they were really the shady folks you portray them to be?

I think your compassionless frankness demonstrates a lack of maturity, a profound disrespect for the team and leadership at Logos, and a failure to exemplify Philippians 2:3 in this situation. Take the high road...voice your concerns as a mature person of faith. Don't make such harsh, unnecessary criticisms about anyone in the forums. It solves nothing and only causes you to loose respect among your peers as you fall into sin for which you will more than likely be unwilling to repent after a public rebuke (I'm sure you are already formulating your response as you read these last lines). 

Simply put. Voice your concerns indeed, but PLEASE slow down to take a breath, think about your words, and be gentle, loving, and kind [you know, those "fruit of the Spirit" ideals we were taught in Sunday School years ago]. If you genuinely do not trust Bob, why on earth would you continue to do business with him and his team? If that is the case, move on and work on forgiving Bob for what are seemingly just mere perceived violations of trust. Even if he has violated your trust, is a public condemnation of his integrity really necessary? Was there not another way, a more excellent way? The way of Christ, maybe?

Blessings...

Signed,

A FL customer who is discouraged with the criticisms and biblically counterintuitive nature of both the tone and content of posts attacking the folks at FL these days. Let's strive to do better folks. After all, they are just human, and could use a little grace too!! Shalom y'all! [;)]

Myke, you spent quite a bit of typing creating a paper tiger, and then proceeded to target practice. But you need more practice. 

Logos is a business. It sells to a market. In so doing it, by necessity, must walk away from some customers in favor of an even larger group of customers. Trust presumes you know who they will choose to favor. You don't.  Nor do I. You choose trust. I don't. I buy from 4 platforms.  Logos is #3 currently (books) in my purchasing.

It's called 'bucks'. And Logos must choose customers ... maybe you.  Maybe not.

I've been to the Logos Now page twice to try to understand what was being offered and the benefits to me. Each time, I came away having decided not to sign up because there is simply nothing that I want right now. 

But you know what? I'm totally fine with Logos offering something I don't want right now. Whether I want it or not shouldn't hinder Logos' decision of whether to offer it. As has already been demonstrated, there are some who do want it. So, I guess I just never understand all the negativity towards Logos when things like this come about. Bob, I commend you for all the times you come here to explain yourself, when you don't need anyone's permission to do what you think is best for the company you run.

Now, just so you can have good data on why some of us aren't signing up: I'm a huge fan of Logos. I'm also a huge fan of subscription-based services. I'm a member of Netflix, Office 365 ( I held out a while on that one, but am very pleased with it now), and Amazon Prime. But I'm not interested in Logos Now because my primary Logos interest is the resources, and Logos Now doesn't give me access to new ones. 

I understand that I get access to certain features, but they've never been the big draw for me. When new Logos releases come out, I immediately jump on board because of the nice, shiny new resource packages I get. The extra features received are a benefit that I would wait for if it weren't for the new resources.

So.....I'm waiting for something like a subscription plan for a gillion resources! Or if not a gillion, how about the Collectors Edition as a start? I would sign up TODAY. :-)

Super.Tramp said:

But how much should Collector's Edition rent for? If it is too high nobody will subscribe. If it is very cheap nobody will ever buy it again. There is also that pesky issue of publisher's royalties.

Very good points, and I don't know the answer. But I bet the folks at Logos could figure it out. I pay $29.99 a month to Adobe to access just their InDesign software. To me that's a huge chunk of change for a subscription, but I pay it because it's valuable to me right now.