Time to change the system for Logs
The current system is not serving FL well e.g. a current thread with a wonderful description of what the notification icon is doing/not doing, and another thread regarding yet another index malfunction...but not a single log to establish the behaviour!
The practice of requesting logs is often protracted by misunderstandings of what is involved and/or possible, whether on Mac or Windows. And user reactions (e.g. reindexing, reinstalling) to serious issues precludes gathering of useful information.
So I think it is time to have:
- permanent logging by default
- set by the application
- have Commands to enable/disable logging (Java scripts in Windows become redundant)
- Note that the overhead is negligible, and I've been doing it for over 5 years.
- concatenate logs for events that require a restart.
- logs are currently overwritten after a restart
- archive/compress logs (say 5 versions)
- this will provide invaluable history whilst saving space
- streamline log contents for efficiency
- some output relates to performance, but what's the point when it is never used!
Dave
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Windows 11 & Android 13
Comments
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Dave, do you think that the way Microsoft products do it would work well? When they crash, there is automatically an attempt to send an error report. The user can turn it down (i.e., cancel the sending of the report) but at least no gymnastic is required to log an error.
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Dave Hooton said:
another thread regarding yet another index malfunction...but not a single log to establish the behaviour!
My thread on that subject did contain logs. Were there others on this subject?
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Dave,
I understand your point but I for one for object if there was a move to auto-collect and send logs etc. But I know that's not what you are suggesting.
In the Icons event, someone has confirmed that their install appears to do the same on startup: a "1" with no tool tip.
Regards,
Jim
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Under Help there is a menu option for "Report a Problem" that directs to a web page. Maybe one to send logs might be a good solution in some cases. I guess it would need to somehow prompt for details so it could be linked to whatever the user was attempting to report.
- Jim
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One of the points Dave is making is that currently logs get overwritten before they are sent and this ought to change.
Personally I think Dave's suggestions are excellent and would really improve things
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Graham,
Yes I think the overwrite issue seems valid and leaves room for something better when there are issues around restarts and what happened.
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Amen. Hallelujah. And all that.
May I add one suggestion? All the help I've ever received on loggable issues has come from Dave and one or two others here in the forums. Uploading logs isn't intuitive (it's not difficult, but still, not intuitive).
My suggestion is to add an icon next to the paperclip (maybe an icon of a log? [;)] ) that will attach the log to the forum post, rather than having to go through the 'whatever-the-heck-this-thing-is-called-below' process.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Francis said:
Dave, do you think that the way Microsoft products do it would work well? When they crash, there is automatically an attempt to send an error report.
I'm not talking about crash logs, nor error logs, as these are produced automatically at present. Permanent logging is a detailed log of what is happening whenever the application is running. Starting Logos with CMD or CTRL key held produces these logs for one session only.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Doc B said:
My suggestion is to add an icon next to the paperclip (maybe an icon of a log?
) that will attach the log to the forum postHaving a dedicated icon to upload logs is an excellent suggestion.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Bump for FL
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thanks for the suggestions. We don't plan to implement permanent or archived logs (other than what has already been done with LogosError.log).
In my experience, the number of problems that could only have been solved by reading the previous session's log is incredibly small (other than crashes, which are already archived), so this is not worth implementing.
Adding a button in the forums to automatically upload logs is a good idea, but I'm not sure that it's technically feasible.
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In my experience, the number of problems that could only have been solved by reading the previous session's log is incredibly small (other than crashes, which are already archived), so this is not worth implementing.
Somehow this doesn't really square with your other post https://community.logos.com/forums/p/107104/741118.aspx#741118 in my head.
Have joy in the Lord!
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NB.Mick said:
In my experience, the number of problems that could only have been solved by reading the previous session's log is incredibly small (other than crashes, which are already archived), so this is not worth implementing.
Somehow this doesn't really square with your other post https://community.logos.com/forums/p/107104/741118.aspx#741118 in my head.
I don't understand. That's a problem that can't be solved by reading the previous session's log, which is exactly what I'm saying here. (The extra log collection proposed by the OP would provide no assistance to us in solving that problem. I'd rather add diagnostics that do help solve the problem.)
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I'd rather add diagnostics that do help solve the problem.)
These are automatically sent to FL or still require users to submit logs?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Adding a button in the forums to automatically upload logs is a good idea, but I'm not sure that it's technically feasible.
A dedicated button that avoids the paper clip's image dimensions and defaults to viewing the Documents folder would be a big improvement.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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We don't plan to implement permanent or archived logs (other than what has already been done with LogosError.log).
You seem to disregard the convenience of requesting permanent logging from users and the need to keep logs after a restart has been requested...
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
defaults to viewing the Documents folder would be a big improvement.
...but mac users don't use the "documents folder" to keep logs. They are placed on the desktop.
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
Choose Truth Over Tribe | Become a Joyful Outsider!0 -
alabama24 said:
..but mac users don't use the "documents folder" to keep logs. They are placed on the desktop.
Thanks .. I was hoping you'd chime in!
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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