Strong's numbers in the Complete Word Study Bible
Hi,
I use Logos 3 to copy my passage from the Complete Word Study Bible (from AMG package) into Microsoft Word and then print it out and use it as my worksheet for Bible study. I purchased this resource so that I could get the Bible text, Gk morphology abbreviations, and Gk strongs number all on the same page in compact form (unlike the reverse interlinears which cannot be printed out in compact form). Unfortunately, Logos 4 will only show the Gk morphology abbreviations, but not the strong's # inline, as you would see if you opened the paper copy of the book.
I understand that Logos is working on "full view interlears" in Q1'10, but can anyone tell me if this new functionality will solve my problem? Has the move to Logos 4, rendered my purchase of the Complete Word Study Bible no longer suitable for my needs?
Thanks for any help!
Mickey
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I also used inline strongs numbers with my KJV in L3 for various reasons and would like to know if a visual filter for inline strong's numbers is planned for L4.
Also, better navigation with the keyboard (arrows and paging up and down) within panes and a way of toggling between panes would be helpful. I miss the tool bar option, alt + w + x, to navigate between windows. If there is a way in L4 to navigate between windows using the keyboard I would like to find it.
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Bob Pritchett has said in the past that they are moving away from in-line numbers and going to an all interlinear format. Which kind of leaves the The Complete Word Study Bible by the wayside, due to the fact that it was intended to be studied with in-line numbers, not as an interlinear.
There have been some "work arounds' discussed in this post:
Questions
concerning "The Complete Word Study Bible" by Zodhiates"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Hi Paul,
Thanks for the quick response. Much appreciated!
I suppose I would be fine with their direction, if I were fluent in the original languages. Someone who is fluent in Gk and is looking at a large passage of Scripture could see some words that are translated similarly, and with a glance of the eye compare the greek words to see if they are the same. Or they could simply scan the text to see if the morphology is all the same, etc. I could accomplish the same thing by glancing at the Strong's number and using CWSB grammatical codes.. Unfortunately, L4 would force me to move my mouse, click over here, scroll down, click over here, etc. for each word I'm interested in comparing. As good as technology is getting, the eye is much, much, much more efficient than hand and mouse.
I believe this is a huge oversight not to include the strong's inline numbers, as many Bible students do not know the original languages and have adapted by use of the Strong's numbers. This is the very reason they are so popular and so useful. My guess is that if Logos doesn't bring this functionality back, they will lose some customers. It is obvious by the number of people who have posted to the forums thusfar that it is a tough pill to swallow.
I checked out the discussion you sent with the potential work around. Unfortunately, using the information window only gives one word at a time. It also gives a whole bunch of information, focused on that word. The beauty of the CWSB is the amount of information that is packed into a small space so that the eye can absorb it without need for poking here and poking there. Any other ideas for a work around?
Thanks again, and blessings,
Mickey
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MickeyEllis01 said:
It is obvious by the number of people who have posted to the forums thusfar that it is a tough pill to swallow.
You are right - but also remember those of us who dislike Strong's numbers (think of Merriam Webster's by number) see no reason to post.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Here is a possible work around. If you have the Lexham Greek Interlinear New Testament; in the display turn off everything but the English Literal Translation and the Strong's Numbers. Then link your KJV bible with this Lexicon and choose A for both. Under your visual filters choose sympathetic highlighing for both Bibles. This way if you can't read greek this will tell you which word matches the Strong Numbers in the KJV. Then set up a workspace that will link several lexicons together and when you click on the strongs numbers several of your lexicons will come up at once. Hope this helps. Another Interlinear that has the strongs numbers and the same greek text of the KJV is The Literal Translation of the Greek New Testament by Thomas Newberry unfortunately sympathetic highlighting is not included in the visual filters otherwise you could do the same things for that as you would with the Lexham Greek Interlinear New Testament.
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MickeyEllis01 said:
I checked out the discussion you sent with the potential work around. Unfortunately, using the information window only gives one word at a time. It also gives a whole bunch of information, focused on that word. The beauty of the CWSB is the amount of information that is packed into a small space so that the eye can absorb it without need for poking here and poking there. Any other ideas for a work around?
Sympathetic highlighting doesn't work with Strong's numbers; only between texts with Greek/Hebrew. The Information tool in 4.0b will have choices for what is displayed and how it will be activated (hover/click), which will eliminate the redundant information.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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It does work with the Lexham Greek English Interlinear with only the english gloss and the Strong's Number showing. The KJV Bible has the Greek basis layered. For example if you choose sympathetic highlighting on both and in the Lexham Interlinear highlight in Acts 10:22 the words "to summon" the words "to send for"in the KJV will be highlighted. Not knowing Greek you want the Greek meaning behind the word "to send for" so you know to click on the stongs number 3343 and then link your other lexicons. This is for individual who doesn't know the Greek and could still find the equivilent word in the English. Of course you coiuld right click on the english words "to send for" and find if the strongs number matches the lexicon's strong's number.
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JohnBrumett said:
It does work with the Lexham Greek English Interlinear with only the english gloss and the Strong's Number showing. The KJV Bible has the Greek basis layered.
Yes it works using the KJV RI bible (with any information showing in LGNTI), but the source bible is the Complete Word Study Bible (KJV version) which only has Strong's numbers and Mickey definitely prefers to work from the CWSB.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Yes, thank you Dave.
However, I must say, that if I can accomplish the same thing through another resource, I would be eager at this point to do it (although reckoning with the fact that I paid for the CWSB, would be a bit frustrating).
With that being said, I can't say that I completely understood the suggestion. I have attached a picture of how I make a worksheet using different Bible translations, with the CWSB at the top. If it could produce something similar to the following, could you walk me through it? Similar would mean that it has the Strong's number and some grammatical code attached to each English word that has been translated.
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There is no direct equivalent, but the Text Comparison Tool offers that layout with text only
I created that in a floating window. But you can put in the narrower pane in the main window with the CWSB bible open in the adjacent pane. You can show differences with the toggle A next to the passage box (if you have the appropriate base library).
Alternatively you can drag all the bible panes under the CWSB and link them together. The wiki http://wiki.logos.com/Layouts will give you some guidance.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Thank you all who tried to help. Unfortunately it looks like I'll be stuck using Logos 3 until Logos brings back Strong's.
Does anyone know if Logos is planning on bringing back the inline Strong's functionality? Perhaps it is on their development roadmap.
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Since I did not get an answer to this question, I'll ask it a different way[:P]
Does anyone know how I can find out it Strongs inline functionality is on the Logos 4 developement roadmap?
I would also be interested to post a formal user requirement to the developement team. Anybody know how to do that?
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Mickey: Don't go Back to Egypt yet! The Newberry Interlinear does the same thing as the Complete Word Study Bible. Simply click on the Display and uncheck Manuscript, Greek Lema and tense, voice and Mood. Notice the Strongs numbers are displayed and the grammar. Then Link your lexicons together and when you click on the Strong's number both lexicons appear with the information you need. The Complete Word Study Bible is simply the KJV text with strongs numbers and grammar.
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Thanks for jumping in John.
Unfortunately Newberry doesn't give me what the CWSB gave me. I am using the CWSB to print out a worksheet. The CWSB is formatted such that I get all the information in a compact format. I did a test to give you and example. When I copy the entire book of Ephesians from the CWSB, it takes up 7 pages. Using the Newberry interlinear, that same passage took 27 pages. This is not to mention that pasting the interlinear text has aweful formatting because it uses tables. So you can't really manipulate the format very well at all.
Other disadvantages include: I lose the KJV text for a version that is completely unfamiliar to me and to my congregation; it is only the Gk NT, not the whole Bible; and, I would have to learn a completely new set of grammatical codes.
So...sadly this won't work. Thanks for your reply though.
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MickeyEllis01 said:
I would also be interested to post a formal user requirement to the developement team. Anybody know how to do that?
Put a post up in the Suggestions forum and/or email them. Correct address at http://wiki.logos.com/Logos_Email_Addresses
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The other problem is that the Newberry Interlinear is just the NT - CWSB also includes Strongs numbers for the OT Hebrew. It is this issue that will force me for awhile to revert back to L3 - at least for some of my work.
Blessings,
Floyd
Blessings,
FloydPastor-Patrick.blogspot.com
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