Just A Thought: Bookaholics?
Logos Users,
With thousands of books, Bibles, Collection Sets, maps, data sets, dictionaries, commentaries, etc., with no end in sight and many more books to come; is it possible for a “Holy man” or person to become a bookaholic? Can one become addicted to (religious) books? I speak namely of when a person racks up huge debts (borrows/credit), reads all the time, purchase books over food, hardly eats the food available, and don’t sleep for studying and reading. Is this possible? Is this the average Pastor, a seminarian, or an anomaly? No, I am not describing myself-- Just a thought.
If this is wrong forum, Oops!
Comments
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I tend to read in the a.m. about 5 hours and then eat 6 times a day. I get 8 hours sleep a night. I buy multiple books each month but it doesn't run my life even though I spend 5 hours a day reading. I am an active college student but not currently taking classes, I know that doesn't make any sense. But when I am taking classes my reading is about 3 hours a day because the other 2 hours are for reading my textbooks. I read more than just the books in my Logos library. I simply love to read. Some people would call me a bookaholic and others would say I am not reading enough and don't have enough books.
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Charles,
I think you raise an important issue and -- while others may disagree -- I think this is an acceptable forum since it relates quite directly to how people approach their acquisition of Logos resources. Even before the stage of bookaholism, there are softer forms of this addiction spanning a large spectrum of obsession. I know I am often tempted to buy more than I "should" (whatever that means), or more than I can possibly benefit from, and I constantly ask myself if I'm crossing the line from great stewardship decisions to horrible stewardship decisions. Often, addicts never know when they've crossed that line, or have learned skills to justify transgressing it.
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Lew Worthington said:
Often, addicts never know when they've crossed that line, or have learned skills to justify transgressing it.
Ouch, good word
Logos 10 | Dell Inspiron 7373 | Windows 11 Pro 64, i7, 16GB, SSD | iPhone 13 Pro Max
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Charles McNeil said:
Is this possible?
48,462 resources in my library.....No, it does not seem possible.
The Love Affairs of a Bibliomaniac by Eugene Field
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Charles McNeil said:
is it possible for a ... person to become a bookaholic?
Yes. Hoarding is a psychological disorder, and can affect people with digital 'collections' just like those with physical 'collections'. Having observed reported behaviors in the forums for over six years, I'm convinced (anecdotally) I've seen it numerous times.
Charles McNeil said:when a person racks up huge debts (borrows/credit), reads all the time, purchase books over food, hardly eats the food available, and don’t sleep
As I said in another forum, if I'm spending more on Logos each year than I put in the plate at church, I should be anathema.
YMMV.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Yes it is more than possible. Job 23:12 speaks to the good side of the issue. The focus should be on reading and study first. It's very hard to draw the line.
I think the problem is that we don't want to miss out on anything and that's precisely how stuff gets promoted. There's always something more. Somewhere you reach the point of deciding between the must have and nice to have items. The sooner you do that the better off you will be.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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Mab,
I agree. Are there any specific early waring signs for one to heed when enough is enough (books) and too much is good for nothing?
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Super.Tramp,
Super.Tramp said:48,462 resources in my library.....No, it does not seem possible
I am glad what I described is not your experience. Shall I admire your wealth, acquisition, and/or discipline (self-control)? I am sure there is someone with a Logos Library larger than yours. I guess for some, the sky is the limit and the last book is until the NEXT advertisement or published release.
Finding the balance in all things is the key to healthy living.
PS. ALL THINGS THAT ARE PROBABLE ARE POSSIBLE.
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Charles, I would put it this way.
In this world of many temptations, if you had to be addicted to at least one thing. I think Logos is a very good one to have. That being said, control is important in all things. I ask the question do I really need this set/book many times i find myself questioning the resources i have waiting in "open pre pubs.
One other goal I have is the desire to now read as many book I can that are in my library, without adding a new one if possible.
L4 BS, L5 RB & Gold, L6 S & R Platinum, L7 Platinum, L8 Baptist Platinum, L9 Baptist Platinum, L10 Baptist Silver
2021 MacBook Pro M1 Pro 14" 16GB 512GB SSD, running MacOS Monterey iPad Mini 6, iPhone 11.0 -
Lew Worthington said:
Even before the stage of bookaholism, there are softer forms of this addiction spanning a large spectrum of obsession.
Lew,
Thanks for your insightfulness. He who thinks deeply about possible addiction, makes wise choices and avoid heartaches in the future.
Lew Worthington said:I know I am often tempted to buy more than I "should" (whatever that means), or more than I can possibly benefit from, and I constantly ask myself if I'm crossing the line from great stewardship decisions to horrible stewardship decisions.
What drives us to buy? Is it the advertisements, the quest for knowledge, to have the biggest library, the author, clarity, to know more than others, updates, discarding bounded books for more space at home, bragging rights, because we can afford it (or impress others that we can), the price of a set, time availability, school, entitlement, too many choices, and/or just ego? It is possible that these are the reasons (some justifiable). The question remains, who or what's driving the train to purchase? Only the individual will know for sure.
A rule of thumb, if I may suggest, any extreme is not healthy. Stay out of the ditches, use the road. Let's be willing and ready to help those who have crossed the line and don't know it.
Question: When is "enough is enough"?
Answer: When "too much is good for nothing."
PS. I DON'T HAVE ALL THE ANSWERS, JUST THOUGHTS. Peace!
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Wow...I thought I had a lot of resources at 17,000!
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Lee said:
if you had to be addicted to at least one thing. I think Logos is a very good one to have
I feel a moderate addiction is just fine, but as others say, it can slide to an unhealthy extreme, and how do I recognize the limit?
Just thinking, could overcollecting Logos resources be justified as a donation to the book authors and as giving food to Logos software engineers?
And will buying books eventually make the books more affordable to others?
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
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Veli,
Your thoughts are most welcome, but your "moderate addiction is just fine", raises some concerns. May i suggest you review the definition of the word "addiction." Addiction on any level is unhealthy. I think the "unhealthy extreme" is when ones out-of-controlled behavior decays his/her soul and destroy the lives of others.
I don't think so. Try using this reasoning to the law of a man who has been at a bar or "Pub" for too long. To give a "donation" is to do willingly, freely, and with some sense of control with ones understanding of his/her limitations.Veli Voipio said:overcollecting Logos resources be justified as a donation to the book authors and as giving food to Logos software engineers?
Not, necessarily. Only if you believe in the "Trickled-Down Theory" in selling religious books. There is a thing called profit. If a "Pub" sells more drinks, would the cost automatically go down for the user? Books will become "more affordable" when the seller lowers his prices. Until then, we must pay up, credit up, or "stand down."Veli Voipio said:will buying books eventually make the books more affordable to others?
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For anyone interested, this is from the Mayo Clinic. I guess you could replace "the drug" with "the buying of Logos books" and go through the list to see if it applies to you, although you may wind up with at least one or two humorous results by doing so!
Drug addiction symptoms or behaviors include, among others:
- Feeling that you have to use the drug regularly — this can be daily or even several times a day
- Having intense urges for the drug
- Over time, needing more of the drug to get the same effect
- Making certain that you maintain a supply of the drug
- Spending money on the drug, even though you can't afford it
- Not meeting obligations and work responsibilities, or cutting back on social or recreational activities because of drug use
- Doing things to get the drug that you normally wouldn't do, such as stealing
- Driving or doing other risky activities when you're under the influence of the drug
- Focusing more and more time and energy on getting and using the drug
- Failing in your attempts to stop using the drug
- Experiencing withdrawal symptoms when you attempt to stop taking the drug
http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/drug-addiction/basics/symptoms/con-20020970
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Ok, being a CPA, I would recommend budgeting your purchases for the year in advance and then stick to it. This will cure any compulsive buying because when the money is gone you are done for the year. Use what God has blessed you with for the benefit of others and furthering the Gospel, understanding that to whom much is given, much is required. Lastly, give your budget to your spouse for accountability... hardcore I know.
As for the heart issues, give some of your Logos books away to someone who needs them more, or spend some of your budget to buy books for someone else. Call Logos and have them send an e mail to someone letting them know that a certain amount of $$ has been provided to them to purchase some books, especially if they have blessed you in some way.
Lastly, enjoy what God has blessed you with. It is ok to have fun, enjoy sales and be excited about some new books. I enjoy my Logos library and am thankful for it. It is much smaller than many, but it is just right for me.
Stepping down from my soap box since I don't have a pulpit.[:D]
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I have my monthly payment, and I have a reasonable budget for what I can spend on top of that if I choose.
The way I see it, a mechanic has a 5000$ toolbox, filled with 25000$ worth of tools from snap on etc. A plumber is quite similar. Thousands in tools.
Would a pastor not be negligent if he didn't do something similar? Not only the purchase of books, but their effective use?
No sense re-inventing the wheel when I can instead stand on the shoulders of other folks.
Obviously, if you are driving, or engaging in reckless behavior to get more logos books, then perhaps you have crossed the line
:):)
I'm right around 14,000 titles now. That number always seems to grow around the time new base packages are released.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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OK, I admit that I an addicted to books. The idea of getting a new book; digital or paper is very satisfying and is like a drug. What is scary is to look at one's order page in Logos and see how much one has spent on resources over the years. Many great deals but still a lot of money.
Like most addictions we usually say to ourselves or others, "I can stop", "I can stop purchasing Logos resources".
Suggestion - Can you stay away from logos.com for a month or longer and keep oneself from seeing and desiring resources that might come up on sale or show up in pre-pub or community pricing.
- Stay off Logos.com
- Unsubscribe from email lists
- Stay off the forums or at least the General one
- Avoid the Home page in the app
Now that seems hard to do. I am addicted to discovering what is new and finding about great deals. There is the feeling that I might be missing out on something that I badly "need".
Another thing to try to do is to bring up the library window and click on the "Reading Status" column and see the grouping of resources to see those resources that you have at least opened and referenced vs those you have unread. Look at the Reading section and sort in descending order and you will see those that you have referenced the content the most. Should be revealing.
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I could - but not without dumping my queue for pre-pub. I have to watch that somewhat closely to keep it within budget.Bruce Roth said:OK, I admit that I an addicted to books. The idea of getting a new book; digital or paper is very satisfying and is like a drug. What is scary is to look at one's order page in Logos and see how much one has spent on resources over the years. Many great deals but still a lot of money.
Like most addictions we usually say to ourselves or others, "I can stop", "I can stop purchasing Logos resources".
Suggestion - Can you stay away from logos.com for a month or longer and keep oneself from seeing and desiring resources that might come up on sale or show up in pre-pub or community pricing.
- Stay off Logos.com
- Unsubscribe from email lists
- Stay off the forums or at least the General one
- Avoid the Home page in the app
Now that seems hard to do. I am addicted to discovering what is new and finding about great deals. There is the feeling that I might be missing out on something that I badly "need".
Another thing to try to do is to bring up the library window and click on the "Reading Status" column and see the grouping of resources to see those resources that you have at least opened and referenced vs those you have unread. Look at the Reading section and sort in descending order and you will see those that you have referenced the content the most. Should be revealing.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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abondservant said:
The way I see it, a mechanic has a 5000$ toolbox, filled with 25000$ worth of tools from snap on etc. A plumber is quite similar. Thousands in tools.
Would a pastor not be negligent if he didn't do something similar? Not only the purchase of books, but their effective use?That was my exact logic when I first started with Logos. To put a different perspective on it, the level of education of people in general has increased over the last few generations. Should not those who minister to the church seek grow in their knowledge as well? Christianity faces many attacks, some on the scholarly level, and those in ministry need to be armed with the knowledge to offer repsonses that will stand up to scrutiny. Logos offers a much more cost-effective way to purchase the tools needed to do that, especially if one buys during sales and promotions. Yes, individual resources at regular price may be more expensive than their print counterparts, but that is definitely not the case when things are bundled together or heavily discounted such as the International Critical Commentaries currently on sale for $1.99.
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Addiction normally leads to a premature death, but how about the bookaholics?
My feeling is that they live longer than average, no idea why??
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
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Veli Voipio said:
My feeling is that they live longer than average, no idea why??
That's easy they are not going to give up till they finish that book... and they likely always have two on the go so they have more reason to live.
-Dan
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"Abba Evagrius said: 'Cut out of your heart the desire for many things, and so prevent the mind being disturbed, and the quiet wasted.'"
Owen Chadwick, ed., The Sayings of the Fathers (Philadelphia: Westminster Press, 1958), 42.“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Sometimes it is healthiest to abandon all other things to focus on the one, most important goal. That is the message of the Pearl of Great Price. When I decided to get serious with Logos I sold my classic cars, 28 guitars and my home studio to buy Logos resources. I re-arranged my retirement budget to afford more resources.Charles McNeil said:I am glad what I described is not your experience. Shall I admire your wealth, acquisition, and/or discipline (self-control)? I am sure there is someone with a Logos Library larger than yours. I guess for some, the sky is the limit and the last book is until the NEXT advertisement or published release.
Finding the balance in all things is the key to healthy living.
I am not building a Logos library just for my own use. I have thirteen children and plan to leave it to one of them. For the present, I can use much of my library to homeschool the four sons I still have at home.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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I'm so tempted to start a Bookaholics Anonymous then check myself in
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Charles McNeil said:
Are there any specific early waring signs for one to heed when enough is enough (books) and too much is good for nothing?
- Spending more time on Logos.com, Amazon without specific requirements for needed resources.
- Buying because it's on sale. not because you need it.
- Ignoring your family and friends.
- Finding excuses to indulge.
- Your study is littered with Fritos bags, Mountain Dew cans and coffee cups.
- Can't remember what you've bought and with endless items yanked from your cart. (Thank you Logos)
- Wondering why the eye drops bottles are so small.
- Becoming incoherent if you miss a sale.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
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One should also consult their spouse about purchases. My wife gave her input here:
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/24077/180376.aspx#180376
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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This is an interesting conversation. How many feel Logos is an expense and how many see it as an investment? I read a lot so I view it as an investment.
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investmentDavid Achorn said:This is an interesting conversation. How many feel Logos is an expense and how many see it as an investment? I read a lot so I view it as an investment.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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David Achorn said:
This is an interesting conversation. How many feel Logos is an expense and how many see it as an investment? I read a lot so I view it as an investment.
David,
Investment or not, can one overly invest?
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Super.Tramp said:
I am not building a Logos library just for my own use. I have thirteen children and plan to leave it to one of them. For the present, I can use much of my library to homeschool the four sons I still have at home.
You're admired for your decisions. You're truly a wise and thoughtful man and father. This is NOT an addiction, it's an investment in the present and into future, beneficial to one's self and others. Blessings upon you and the household!
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Veli Voipio said:
My feeling is that they live longer than average, no idea why??
Relative, but at what quality of wealth (or lack), health and life?
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SineNomine said:
"Abba Evagrius said: 'Cut out of your heart the desire for many things, and so prevent the mind being disturbed, and the quiet wasted.'"
In addition, an outdated joke: "How do you stop a charging elephant? Answer: "Take away his credit card."
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James Hiddle said:
start a Bookaholics Anonymous then check myself in
An idea: To all Bookaholics (confessed and closet) invest (non-book) in a good treadmill. Put it near an opened window or where there is a flow of fresh air, project your book on a large screen or monitor and read while walking or use the audio (read aloud). It will help the mind to comprehend the reading of all those books and improve circulation. Did I just suggested how to be a healthy Bookaholic?
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Bruce Roth said:
- Stay off Logos.com
- Unsubscribe from email lists
- Stay off the forums or at least the General one
- Avoid the Home page in the app
You convinced me. I will do that—after Christmas and before March Madness, except for… [;)]
Besides, I only own 1/3 the resources of ST—Now, where did I put the credit card? [8-|]
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Bibliosis – A rarely fatal progressive communicable disease caused by gathering books
Liboniitus – a swelling of the personal library, usually a protective response due to inordinate amounts of interest or curiosity.
Logosis – considered by some experts to be related to Accordapox. It is a collection of imported digital matter in the cortex of the workstation. Considered addictive and seasonal, particularly acute during the months of March and December
Treatment is varied and often unsuccessful. These diseases are considered chronic. Oddly group therapy is discouraged and seems to encourage the spread of the disease.
First symptoms include desire for more RAM, recurrent billinghams, and godly insight
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Dan Francis said:Veli Voipio said:
My feeling is that they live longer than average, no idea why??
That's easy they are not going to give up till they finish that book... and they likely always have two on the go so they have more reason to live.
-Dan
Excellent response Dan [:D] [:D] Brought a smile to my face, thanks
http://hombrereformado.blogspot.com/ Solo a Dios la Gloria Apoyo
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Just getting off-topic as usual: what would be the correct English word for an overly map enthusiast, as good as bookaholic?
Gold package, and original language material and ancient text material, SIL and UBS books, discourse Hebrew OT and Greek NT. PC with Windows 11
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Charles McNeil said:David Achorn said:
This is an interesting conversation. How many feel Logos is an expense and how many see it as an investment? I read a lot so I view it as an investment.
David,
Investment or not, can one overly invest?
Absolutely. I'm not sure where investment ends and over-investment begins, however. When does one have too many books?
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Veli Voipio said:
what would be the correct English word for an overly map enthusiast
Slang would be 'mapaholic', of course.
Medical term is 'cartophilia' or 'cartophilic'.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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This has been a lively and kind discussion with many good thoughts. I think it's something many of us think about a bunch. Thanks for bringing it up, Charles!
More than most other such discussions, there was a high regard for others' opinions and approaches. This is the kind of open ended conversation that is at once thought provoking and encouraging.
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David Achorn said:
When does one have too many books?
When one's collection is bigger then the Library Of Congress [:D]
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Lew Worthington said:
This has been a lively and kind discussion with many good thoughts. I think it's something many of us think about a bunch. Thanks for bringing it up, Charles!
You're Welcome.
Lew Worthington said:there was a high regard for others' opinions and approaches. This is the kind of open ended conversation that is at once thought provoking and encouraging.
Why not? We are all adults and Christians (At least, I want to believe).
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David Achorn said: When does one have too many books?
You have too many books when:
- You don't have the time, the energy, the will or the availability to read them.
- You don't know what you have in your library.
- It takes a one page document answer for a simple "Yes" or "No" question.
- Your wife has to make an appointment to see or talk to you.
- A sore on your bottom for sitting too long.
- You're "ever learning and never coming to a knowledge of truth."
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I don't think 47,882 is too many resources. I am frequently doing research for me or my pastor an I'm able to find the answer in my Logos library. My library including my Kindle and physical books far exceeds $100K but since I have a four year degree that only cost $10K in the 90s, it is a priceless investment. many students today pay $100K for their degree and dont have a library.
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Charles McNeil said:
You don't know what you have in your library.
This is a good point and possibly very true but saying that I would bet this would account for almost all Logos users. Not including the Perseus collection, the vast majority of users beyond the starter packages which in themselves which have around 250 resources and you may well know all of them in your library, But even getting into bronze you are at a point of having over 500 resources. And I would commend anyone who seriously knew overbook they have in the gold collection of over 1000 books. I have a larger library than I need, but I also have included in my Library gems I likely never would have discovered had they not been in my various packages. Were I wealthy I do not think I would significantly expand my Logos library beyond what I have, but I am very happy I have what i do. I am not using all 8300 resources weekly but I do use a significant amount of daily.
-Dan
-Dan
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Super.Tramp said:
One should also consult their spouse about purchases. My wife gave her input here:
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/24077/180376.aspx#180376
You have a very understanding wife. I'm guessing you consider yourself blessed.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:
You have a very understanding wife. I'm guessing you consider yourself blessed.
Bruce,
I do consult with my wife about purchase. This help keeps me balance. She's truly understanding and a blessing.
[Your wife has to make an appointment to see or talk to you]. This not my personal experience. It's of another.
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Charles McNeil said:
David Achorn said:
When does one have too many books?
You have too many books when:
- You don't have the time, the energy, the will or the availability to read them.
- You don't know what you have in your library.
- It takes a one page document answer for a simple "Yes" or "No" question.
- Your wife has to make an appointment to see or talk to you.
- A sore on your bottom for sitting too long.
- You're "ever learning and never coming to a knowledge of truth."
I have my wife contact my personal assistant for appointments so I'm good there.
On a serious note, I often think about point #6. Truth seems to be multi-layered. The more I find at the surface the more that exists in the layers underneath. Logos does a wonderful job of illuminating all those layers.
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Charles McNeil said:Bruce Dunning said:
You have a very understanding wife. I'm guessing you consider yourself blessed.
Bruce,
I do consult with my wife about purchase. This help keeps me balance. She's truly understanding and a blessing.
[Your wife has to make an appointment to see or talk to you]. This not my personal experience. It's of another.
I'm not sure exactly what you are trying to say here. When I spoke to Super.Tramp and said that he has a very understanding wife and that he was blessed I was referring to what he said that she said in that post. I was simply saying she was very supporting and understanding when she said the following...
Nina Jones said:If my hubby's happy, I'm happy...
By the way, I also consult my wife before most purchases.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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I remember reading this in Thomas Oden's biography about one of the challenges of the accumulation of many books:
When a large nineteenth-century lecture hall for biblical studies was divided into two Seminary Hall faculty offices, I inherited a spacious, high ceiling first floor office. It was roomy until I filled it up with my books floor to ceiling. I added more and more books as the years went by. By the 1980s the shelves were so high I needed a ladder. Upon Edward Leroy Long’s retirement, the largest of all of the faculty offices became available in the three-story red brick Wesley House....As it turned out, I needed that space to preserve my extensive working library in a single location. One day I got a knock on my door. An engineering inspection had occurred and everything had to be moved out, as the entire house was under the strain of the weight of my books. The floors of the historic residence were insufficiently braced for my library.
Oden, Thomas C. (2014-11-06). A Change of Heart: A Personal and Theological Memoir (p. 189). InterVarsity Press. Kindle Edition.Or to compare that with e-books, this article is from The Guardian in 2011:
E-readers get heavier with each book
E-readers are meant to let bookworms carry their entire libraries with them without any additional weight – but the devices actually get heavier every time a new text is downloaded.The weight difference is unlikely to make much difference to holidaymakers' baggage allowances, however, because each new tome is about as heavy as a single molecule of DNA. Filling a 4GB Kindle to its storage limit would increase its weight by a billionth of a billionth of a gram
Prof John Kubiatowicz a computer scientist at the University of California, Berkeley, explained in the New York Times last week that storing new data involves holding electrons in a fixed place in the device's memory.
Although the electrons were already present, keeping them still rather than allowing them to float around takes up extra energy – about a billionth of a microjoule per bit of data.
Using Einstein's E=mc² formula, which states that energy and mass are directly related, Prof Kubiatowicz calculated that filling a 4GB Kindle to its storage limit would increase its weight by a billionth of a billionth of a gram, or 0.000000000000000001g.
This is roughly equivalent to the weight of a small virus, while the equivalent number of books – about 3,500 – would weigh approximately two tons.0
