If Dec. 8th were more like Nov. 8th...
...then I would be talking to my Logos sales guy right now instead of typing this post.
I would be getting the Bloomsbury Package that's on sale right now...about a $1000 pop to Logos.
But it isn't Nov. 8th, and I won't be getting that package...or much of anything for that matter, from Logos again.
From the time I bought my first Logos software around 1997 or so, until about 5-6 years ago, my total Logos tally was about $5000 or less. Since the implementation of Logos financing, my total has bloomed to over $35K. I probably still have something close to that on my various Logos "to do" lists. But I am being forced to conclude that the train has left the station for the final time. That isn't my choice...it's just a reflection of the "new day" at FL. I will be occasionally passing by to see if things change. I realize that for FL this decision is what it is and they are going to stick with it. Of course, that means they will be stuck with it.
Sad as it is to say, I think I'm done here. Curious how others are responding and making adjustments.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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We are all made differently. I never financed anything of this sort, though there could be justifiable reason to do so, not convincingly enough for me. Worse than subscription is "Layaway" and a step or so below that is financing.
My idea is that if God provides finances, then He is not closing the door to an opportunity, so I continue to seek His will. If the money isn't there, well, that makes options pretty clear. Other perspectives are likely valid as well.
My heart does go out to all those who would like to finance tens of thousands of dollars for justifiable reasons but who cannot do so now. And at Christmas time too! Seems like there are always millions of minions with money who will borrow to buy anyway. Wait...?!
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I will never be able to buy an relatively expensive resource again. I cannot afford the down-payments. Only the elite can afford it.
I did get some great stuff before though. Maybe my library is big enough for me already.
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Okay folks lets put a little logic to work here: Let's say you buying a $1500 item ... and paying $155 a month - 150 + 5 fee
Old plan: you get the product immediately and pay an additional $10 in fees
New plan: you use cache and get the product three months later and save $10 in fees
Different amounts and different time periods will change in results but the Old method will ALWAYS cost you more in fees. The New method will never cause a delay in receiving the resource that exceeds time you take to pay 25% of the total due into cache.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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GREAT example. For some people having $450 cache/cash in the bank account might just be too big a temptation though to spend it on something else. But that's probably a different issue.
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Jan Krohn said:
GREAT example.
Yes it is a great example.
Jan Krohn said:For some people having $450 cache/cash in the bank account might just be too big a temptation though to spend it on something else. But that's probably a different issue.
I agree that this is probably a different issue but still true for many.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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NOT a great example...not even a good example. I am currently already making payments on dozens of purchases all rolled into one payment per month. That will continue for some time. Until that payment comes to an end, I cannot afford to start a new, separate payment. Also, my current payment plan is the max number of months Logos offered, which provides much lower monthly payments than any current Logos plan offers. Making a $1500 purchase by rolling into my current plan has less than half of the monthly impact the "new plan" requires. Without getting into details, the "logic" of this "new plan" is the equivalent of highway robbery, and I can't afford to be robbed.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
I cannot afford to start a new, separate payment.
It costs $5/mth to have a second payment plan.
David Paul said:Without getting into details, the "logic" of this "new plan" is the equivalent of highway robbery, and I can't afford to be robbed.
Without getting into details, I think you're wrong. About the first part, not about not being able to afford being robbed. [:)]
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:David Paul said:
I cannot afford to start a new, separate payment.
It costs $5/mth to have a second payment plan.
David Paul said:Without getting into details, the "logic" of this "new plan" is the equivalent of highway robbery, and I can't afford to be robbed.
Without getting into details, I think you're wrong. About the first part, not about not being able to afford being robbed.
Well that is an additional $5 a month, on top of the monthly payment, plus the new down payment and a capped term length.
So a little more complicated.
Changes aren't necessarily a bad thing, and really only affect the impulse purchase usually caused by a sale on Logos's part.
If you can plan out your purchase, either saving for the whole thing, or at least getting past the down payment, then really not bad terms compared to a credit card.
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MJ. Smith said:
Okay folks lets put a little logic to work here: Let's say you buying a $1500 item ... and paying $155 a month - 150 + 5 fee
Old plan: you get the product immediately and pay an additional $10 in fees
New plan: you use cache and get the product three months later and save $10 in fees
Different amounts and different time periods will change in results but the Old method will ALWAYS cost you more in fees. The New method will never cause a delay in receiving the resource that exceeds time you take to pay 25% of the total due into cache.
This example does not work for a lot of people who have been signed up to high value long term payment plans. For those users the example has little relevance as they are most likely not able to put 150 or even 50 a month into the cache on top of what they are already payng by month. Under the old plan they could simply extend their existing payment plan and continue to pay the same monthly payment. No doubt some were encouraged by sales reps to extend their payment plans back out to 27 months in the month prior to Logos announcing the change to the system - "Add these resources to your payment plan for no extra cost". Maybe this thinking will be of value to those users when Logos 8 is released as they might then be in a position to have been putting some money into the book cache for 6 to 12 months, but certainly not before Logos 7 is released.
Personally rather than giving your money to Logos to put in their bank account, I'd recommend setting up your own separate account and putting away a monthly amount in that account. It's your money why give control of it to them before you are ready to make a purchase and if you really need to use it for another purpose then so be it, the funds are in your control and you can access them. The issue of discipline exists whether or not 'Faithlife' or 'You name' is shows up as the owner of the account but if 'Faithlife' shows up as the owner of the account you a very limited in how you can use your money.
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Deleted Post.
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SineNomine said:
It costs $5/mth to have a second payment plan.
Another irrelevant comment. Under the "old system", I could buy the $1000 dollar item I'm interested in, roll it into my current plan, and my monthly payment would GO DOWN from where it is currently set. No amount of words by uninformed others will make the new better than the old.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul-- I could buy the $1000 dollar item I'm interested in, roll it into my current plan, and my monthly payment would GO DOWN from where it is currently set. No amount of words by uninformed others will make the new better than the old.
David Paul is right.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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David Paul said:
Under the "old system", I could buy the $1000 dollar item I'm interested in, roll it into my current plan, and my monthly payment would GO DOWN from where it is currently set. No amount of words by uninformed others will make the new better than the old.
And your fees would go up.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The fees are irrelevant as well. They are part of any time-purchase. I am happy to pay the monthly fee to get what I could not otherwise purchase.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
I am happy to pay the monthly fee to get what I could not otherwise purchase.
Here is where we hit a generational gap. I can afford the same things whether I can put them on credit or not ... with the exception of houses, businesses, etc. The question is whether I can have them now and pay later at extra cost OR save now and buy later.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
I can afford the same things whether I can put them on credit or not ... with the exception of houses, businesses, etc.
Hooray for you. [<:o)]
I cannot.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:MJ. Smith said:
I can afford the same things whether I can put them on credit or not ... with the exception of houses, businesses, etc.
Hooray for you.
I cannot.
Save your Confederate money, boys, the resource will (probably) still be there.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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This also doesn't take into consideration limited-time sales unless you've already been saving money into the cache or another account. If I need three months to save for 25% down on a sale price that only lasts for one month, I am not likely to take advantage of the sale.
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Russel Taylor said:
This also doesn't take into consideration limited-time sales unless you've already been saving money into the cache or another account. If I need three months to save for 25% down on a sale price that only lasts for one month, I am not likely to take advantage of the sale.
Sales come and sales go. Blessed be the arrival of sales. [:)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Russel Taylor said:
If I need three months to save for 25% down on a sale price that only lasts for one month, I am not likely to take advantage of the sale.
This is the one good argument that I've seen for the old rules as opposed to the new ones.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Hey David, just a thought.
If you realy need it...it's two Days bevor Christmast [;)] just ask your Friends...and if you REALY need it, borough the Money from your Friends...but if you don't realy need it...just relaxe, save your Money and either by something else or save it.
Sascha[:)]
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This kind of feels like being kicked in the shin, and told its better.
Better for you maybe.
My pattern has been:
Make a big purchase, pay, pay, pay, pay, make a small purchase and let the monthly payment lower.
1000$/10 would be 100$ a month. Pay that for 4 or 5 months, add 100$ to the plan, and lower the payment to 50$ a month (estimates, so you can see how it used to work for me.
My plan would stay right around two years (because I kept my balance high). Then I made a big purchase, and the number of months was lowered, and they made it so any new purchase would lower the number of months i could make payments for taking a 395$ monthly payment (actual number) and turning it into a much higher monthly payment.
I'm happy to continue paying 400$ a month. I will do so for the next 24 or so months.
But after that I'm done with logos credit. No more purchasing one of each base package (which is pretty much where I am now). I'll make smaller purchases as I can afford them, but will make no further long term financial commitments. I no longer feel like its a safe idea to make a commitment that depends on their policies remaining stable over time.
Maybe in six months they will change back. But even then, their policy would be capricious. Who builds a house on sand?L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I am not trying to point fingers at anyone, but apparently there were a significant number of users who were amassing a sizeable debt to Logos. To a certain extent I was guilty, not the scale of some but i tried to keep my payments the same and did occasionally add things on. This was great for me, but meant Faithlife as a company was going to be extending a higher and higher credit out to me, they are receiving no interest and were incurring costs of payment of royalties now in olden days and even today in some less scrupulous places owing ones soul to the company store maybe a corporations dream, but it is not FL ultimate goal, nor do the wish for people to end up in situations where they cannot make their monthly payments. While at first i was disappointed in this decision I now fully feel it was likely the best move for all involved other than perhaps FL sales totals. But if people keep buying and never fulling paying off, which was sort of my position over the past 2 years, FL becomes rich on the books but never fully realizes that potential. I have 25 months left on my payment plan (mostly because i got nervous and grabbed Anglican Portfolio while it was still available under older practices, where as I was not planning on getting it till summer 2016 or perhaps even Logos 7 Anglican Portfolio). Things may get added to this but I realize that it is no longer get now pay later, but 25% down. Which causes me to ask the important question do I need this enough to make that investment. I went a head and paid full for TDOT because to me it was well worth it..
-Dan
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