Personnel changes at Faithlife
Comments
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We're still working on building Chinese products and other language packages.
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SineNomine said:
Let's go back to basics: Bob's job is to make revenues exceed expenses.
If 60 employees had an average salary of $60K, that's $3.6 million.
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EastTN said:
Can a corporation successfully operate two models at the same time? Sure. But some of the statements have struck me, at least, as suggesting that Bob may be viewing the ownership model more as a legacy product that has to be supported, but really isn't where the future of his business lies. If that's not the case, then perhaps some reassurance on that point might be helpful.
We have to remember that most of FL's products are books in electronic format. Most--probably all--publishers of physical and/or electronic books still sell books. As long as publishers keep selling books, potential and actual customers will keep expecting FL to sell books.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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SineNomine said:EastTN said:
Can a corporation successfully operate two models at the same time? Sure. But some of the statements have struck me, at least, as suggesting that Bob may be viewing the ownership model more as a legacy product that has to be supported, but really isn't where the future of his business lies. If that's not the case, then perhaps some reassurance on that point might be helpful.
We have to remember that most of FL's products are books in electronic format. Most--probably all--publishers of physical and/or electronic books still sell books. As long as publishers keep selling books, potential and actual customers will keep expecting FL to sell books.
[Y] Well said ! I spent a lot of money last year and I like owning books.
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Ted Weis said:
If 60 employees had an average salary of $60K, that's $3.6 million.
That is a drop in the bucket compared to how much Faithlife could lose if they went to a subscription only model.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Ted Weis said:SineNomine said:
Let's go back to basics: Bob's job is to make revenues exceed expenses.
If 60 employees had an average salary of $60K, that's $3.6 million.
Actually if we go back to the basics, we need to go back to the call to family, community, and participation and the pursuit of the Common Good. The base of society is the family and society must pursue economic justice to serve people, not the other way around. At the center of the personnel changes at Faithlife is the human dignity of the 60 or so families (~150-200 people) impacted by the changes.
Faithlife contributes to the common good through the products it creates as well as the jobs that it creates that respect and uphold the dignity of its employees. My hope is that Bob's assessment was that this mission was at risk for the corporation as a whole and that in the interests of all the stakeholders, including the 320 families of the employees remaining employed at Faithlife, these actions were needed to be taken and were done with a compassion for those families impacted by the changes.
While profitable operations are clearly a requirement - Faithlife is not a non-profit, its business goals need to be more than simply revenue minus expenses equals profits. IMHO.
Agape,
Steve
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SineNomine said:EastTN said:
Can a corporation successfully operate two models at the same time? Sure. But some of the statements have struck me, at least, as suggesting that Bob may be viewing the ownership model more as a legacy product that has to be supported, but really isn't where the future of his business lies. If that's not the case, then perhaps some reassurance on that point might be helpful.
We have to remember that most of FL's products are books in electronic format. Most--probably all--publishers of physical and/or electronic books still sell books. As long as publishers keep selling books, potential and actual customers will keep expecting FL to sell books.
I hope you're right. To be clear, I'm not trying to undermine FaithLife. But I do think it's of value to them for those of us who have concerns to express them clearly. I work in an industry where it's routine for companies to subscribe to information services that are only available on a rental basis. Granted, the reason is that they need access to things - such as state or federal laws and regulations - that are continually being updated. But it makes it easier for me to imagine resources moving to a rental only basis. Beyond whether particular resources are available, there's also a question of usability. If an increasing number of features were only available on a rental basis, or if FaithLife slowed development of the user interface for ownership products, then it would make them less attractive.
Again, this is not intended as an attack on anyone or anything. I'm just trying to express why I might feel some discomfort when the company that provides a product that I'm heavily invested in begins consistently talking about shifting it's emphasis away from that business model to a fundamentally different one. For many people, the new model may in fact be better. But I'm neither a full time minister nor a full time academic, so I don't have a subsidized book budget. Buying what I can, when I can, makes more sense than taking on an ongoing subscription fee. It's a lot easier to tell my spouse that I had some extra money this month so I bought some books than it is to say that I signed up for yet another recurring monthly bill.
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abondservant said:
This whole thread needs a dislike button.
First Rusty, then Mark, now Dave. Seems like as soon as I pick a new sales person they quit or are fired.
Maybe thats a sign I need to reign in my spending for a while
Maybe in a couple years I'll consider a new BP.I agree with you.... although my reigning in has to do with the fact that I need to get my plan paid off as it got inflated just before the changes... I do not own or run FL... from the very little I know these decisions may not have been the ones i would have choose, but that doesn't mean they were wrong ones... Going out of the forum to the news paper story comment section, one lady makes it sound more drastic than we have been told including a 15% wage cuts. I am not in Bob's shoes to know what he does or see what is best for his company. I look forward to using FL products for many more years, and can only trust that Bob's actions will help make that possible.
-Dan
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Dan Francis said:abondservant said:
This whole thread needs a dislike button.
First Rusty, then Mark, now Dave. Seems like as soon as I pick a new sales person they quit or are fired.
Maybe thats a sign I need to reign in my spending for a while
Maybe in a couple years I'll consider a new BP.I agree with you.... although my reigning in has to do with the fact that I need to get my plan paid off as it got inflated just before the changes... I do not own or run FL... from the very little I know these decisions may not have been the ones i would have choose, but that doesn't mean they were wrong ones... Going out of the forum to the news paper story comment section, one lady makes it sound more drastic than we have been told including a 15% wage cuts. I am not in Bob's shoes to know what he does or see what is best for his company. I look forward to using FL products for many more years, and can only trust that Bob's actions will help make that possible.
-Dan
It is not only the article that has me concerned, but the Glassdoor remarks- the overall problem that raised its head time after time- poor management techniques - even though this is family owned- I get the impression the lack of a qualified management team may be the issue. Maybe its time to let someone else run the ship, I get this not only from articles but from watching FL now for 2 yrs. to be honest I have some major concerns.
What's at stake- my investment of more than $50,000.00 that has been used on FL products. It is my concern- what Bob and his team do this year will determine where I spend my future resources. This not a threat or condemnation of anyone- but as Bob says he has to be concerned about the sustainability of FL- I have to be just as judicious regarding my investments. Faithlife could never have achieved its success without "our" purchases- don't forget that.
Anyone can tell you anything on the internet- remember everything on the internet is true- right? My grandfather use to sayb"If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck- I don't want to take the pan out of the oven, remove the lid and find a opossum laying there." Let your yes be yes and your no be no.
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I would like to point something out here that I keep seeing mentioned.
Some folks here keep saying that most or all of these people were "Fired".I don't see that having been mentioned anywhere in any official post. A person is "Fired" for cause. They did something really stupid or illegal. In fact, from what I have read they were "Laid Off". That is a completely different story.
I do not know about FL's policy, but it is customary for an employee who has been laid off to have some sort of recall rights or if not a (negotiated) right their returning is not impossible. If they were a good employee they may be able to return if the economy improves. If you were fired,forget it. It is very unlikely you would ever return.Some of the people who were laid off may feel like they were fired but that is their feeling, not the reality of the situation.
I do know what they are going through. I am one of those 10 thousand people that Caterpillar Inc is laying off world wide. I was part of 210 people let go at one time from the building I worked in this last October. I am still without work. I do know however, that God WILL provide. It may not be in the timing that I want and it may not be a Job that I would have considered before, but He Will provide. For me as well as for each of those FL employees that were laid off. I've been laid off 4 time in my working carrer and God has always come through for me. I've been laid off just as these FL employees were, but we were not Fired.
With respect........
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Bob, Thanks for being as open and transparent as you can, and respect your call on your business decision, may your friends find employment soon..
Whilst I appreciate your move towards more SaaS in the future, which as a new user would make more sense, however please don't forget - some of us oldies/early-adopters have thousands of $$$ invested/paid already into the growth of the company, I know you have said you plan on supporting us long-term users, but with the new databases and features appearing to be heading one way as online only and subscription based - as a long term user (pre Original - Logos 1.6) with sporadic internet access I still find this reliance on the internet concerning..
Whilst I pray no one does a DdofS attack on you, if you are hit, in the event of a DdofS with Saas model online only(web) you are hindered in your ministry , please remember us poor-folks with 3rd world internet..
.. and that political climates change and online sites can be blocked in seconds...
Please however much you are tempted - never ditch the offline option
Never Deprive Anyone of Hope.. It Might Be ALL They Have
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Roy said:
I do know what they are going through. I am one of those 10 thousand people that Caterpillar Inc is laying off world wide. I was part of 210 people let go at one time from the building I worked in this last October. I am still without work. I do know however, that God WILL provide. It may not be in the timing that I want and it may not be a Job that I would have considered before, but He Will provide. For me as well as for each of those FL employees that were laid off. I've been laid off 4 time in my working carrer and God has always come through for me.
Roy, I'm sorry to hear about your situation. I've been laid off before, and God came through for me - but it was still a scary time for my family.
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Thank you. Yes it is or at least can be scary. I just have to remember to remember that God has the best in mind for me and remember to be patient.
In fact, I had an interview today. My prayer is that if this is where God wants me, then let them make an offer. If not, then make it plain to me by closing the door with no offer from them. If that door does close, I will look at/into going back to school. I would be eligible to do so, if the field I chose was on the approved list, on the governments dime.
God WILL provide![:D]
P.S. Hey Faithlife... How about giving us a set of Praising Hands emoticon?
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I think I used the word "let go". But I digress.
Parents, God, and businesses can all do things we dislike, for the right reasons. It may well be for the best of the company, and that I like. But the mode we use to get there is unfortunate.
No child likes spanked. No adult likes to be punished. No one likes to see their friend, acquaintance, and future sales person "let go" or "quit" - whatever the circumstances.
I'm committing to spend no more than 20$ a transaction, and no more than one 20$ transaction per month until my debt is paid.
Then we will see where things are at that point. This may not be instability, but that is what it feels like. These are the actions of a company on shaky ground.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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abondservant said:
These are the actions of a company on shaky ground.
True but that is not the only reason that a company might take these actions so don't force me to loose Fallacy Hound from his kennel.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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No need to unleash the fallacy hound. I qualified my statement in the previous sentence.
May not be instability, but that is what it feels like. Likewise (but didn't want to be redundant), May not be on shaky ground per se, but if a company were on shaky ground this is what they'd do.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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abondservant said:
but if a company were on shaky ground this is what they'd do.
If it looks like a duck, waddles like a duck,and quacks like a duck, It's probably a peacock.
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Yup, I got it. I log onto the forums to get my daily dose of pessimism, paranoia, fear and speculation. Sorry, I forgot for a moment and took Bob at face value. [:#]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Whyndell Grizzard said:
t is not only the article that has me concerned, but the Glassdoor remarks- the overall problem that raised its head time after time- poor management techniques - even though this is family owned- I get the impression the lack of a qualified management team may be the issue. Maybe its time to let someone else run the ship, I get this not only from articles but from watching FL now for 2 yrs. to be honest I have some major concerns.
Whyndell Grizzard,
Let Bob, be Bob!
The Laid off employees of Faithlife are most disheartening to know that it’s from a company that peddle the Word, Truth and Hope in digital forms. Our hearts go out to the families. When or where will these people find new employment? What can we do to help them?
Faithlife is a “Family Owned Business”. It still has to do business in the world of customers, market shares, cash flow, profit margins, overheads, taxes, projections, insights, foresight, contracts, insurance, growth, long-term customers and capital, investment, trends, new customers, and competitors. It’s not easy to keep all these things in view and make them work in a volatile economy. Tough decisions have to be made for the good of the whole. As I said before changes are coming to Faithlife. This is the nature of doing business in the “real world.” Offline users, large purchasers of Faithlife products, and large Logos Library owners must allow Bob and the company to do what it should, must, and know, to do. We should move more out of faith and not fear.
The family has chosen him to guide the Faithlife Corp. Let him do it to the best of his abilities. If they become dissatisfied with his leadership, they will choose another. Don’t tie his hands. Let Bob, be Bob. Don’t back him into the corner of saying, “Never.” Some love Bob and many trust him. Bob will not let this company go down. He will do whatever it takes, to keep it profitable. This may (not necessarily required) include the unsettlement of many long-term customers. To be profitable the company may have to change more toward subscriptions and /or a combination ownership of the two. I am not a prophet or a son of a prophet, believe me, THERE MUST BE CHANGES! Gradual, slow, or a complete overhaul, change is coming. Haven’t you seen the Stock Market Report today? Living things must make changes.
Until one can prove otherwise, Bob is doing the best he can to keep Faithlife, lean, profitable, growing, productive, and at the same time reassuring based customers the survivability of Faithlife Corp. Don’t you think Bob needs and can use a vote of confidence from all users and especially, the long-term ones?
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[:D]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Laying off 15% of the work force is pretty drastic. I was in management for 25 years and had to lay off a fair share of folks over that time. It is heart-wrenching. But, if I had to lay off such a large percentage of folks, it was due to a major change in the business model.
I am not a fan of the business model. I was a faithful Adobe customer UNTIL they forced everyone to become subscribers at a ridiculously high ransom. So, to me subscription signals an upcoming abandonment. I know this has been addressed. But, the sense is uneasiness.
It does make me concerned that I may have software that will soon be unsupported. I may own the digital forms of the books, but without the Logos engine, they are no good.
This is a signal to me to somehow begin the arduous task of moving my notes out of Logos or at least build some redundancy for them.
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Bill Cook said:
This is a signal to me to somehow begin the arduous task of moving my notes out of Logos or at least build some redundancy for them.
This is one reason that I prefer notes that are based on a format that can easily be read outside of the software. Other programs use RTF or in a case or two simple TXT (although that's not ideal with no formatting or links to verses).
I wish Logos would do this.
Dr. Kevin Purcell, Director of Missions
Brushy Mountain Baptist Association0 -
Charles McNeil said:Whyndell Grizzard said:
t is not only the article that has me concerned, but the Glassdoor remarks- the overall problem that raised its head time after time- poor management techniques - even though this is family owned- I get the impression the lack of a qualified management team may be the issue. Maybe its time to let someone else run the ship, I get this not only from articles but from watching FL now for 2 yrs. to be honest I have some major concerns.
Whyndell Grizzard,
Let Bob, be Bob!
The Laid off employees of Faithlife are most disheartening to know that it’s from a company that peddle the Word, Truth and Hope in digital forms. Our hearts go out to the families. When or where will these people find new employment? What can we do to help them?
Faithlife is a “Family Owned Business”. It still has to do business in the world of customers, market shares, cash flow, profit margins, overheads, taxes, projections, insights, foresight, contracts, insurance, growth, long-term customers and capital, investment, trends, new customers, and competitors. It’s not easy to keep all these things in view and make them work in a volatile economy. Tough decisions have to be made for the good of the whole. As I said before changes are coming to Faithlife. This is the nature of doing business in the “real world.” Offline users, large purchasers of Faithlife products, and large Logos Library owners must allow Bob and the company to do what it should, must, and know, to do. We should move more out of faith and not fear.
The family has chosen him to guide the Faithlife Corp. Let him do it to the best of his abilities. If they become dissatisfied with his leadership, they will choose another. Don’t tie his hands. Let Bob, be Bob. Don’t back him into the corner of saying, “Never.” Some love Bob and many trust him. Bob will not let this company go down. He will do whatever it takes, to keep it profitable. This may (not necessarily required) include the unsettlement of many long-term customers. To be profitable the company may have to change more toward subscriptions and /or a combination ownership of the two. I am not a prophet or a son of a prophet, believe me, THERE MUST BE CHANGES! Gradual, slow, or a complete overhaul, change is coming. Haven’t you seen the Stock Market Report today? Living things must make changes.
Until one can prove otherwise, Bob is doing the best he can to keep Faithlife, lean, profitable, growing, productive, and at the same time reassuring based customers the survivability of Faithlife Corp. Don’t you think Bob needs and can use a vote of confidence from all users and especially, the long-term ones?
My opinion- if you don't like it ignore it- your comments are an over reach.
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I would love for the company to prosper, because I have a large library and Logos is important to many Christian academics/ pastors. But as the owner of a large Logos library: If Faithlife were to close, would we be able to access our books? Would I have to keep one computer operating an old operating system just dedicated to Logos? Is there a backup plan in case of catastrophic failure?
I firmly believe that if the company works to serve the Kingdom, the company will be blessed. If the company works to serve Mammon, it will need to face the consequence of its choice.
So please:
(a) Please show us that you care for your employees' well being. You depend on a motivated team to produce the best products. A demoralized team would cascade your ongoing problems.
(b) Stop pushing your employees with sales quota: when they call me, they all desperately wanted me to buy more. I get really turned off by their sales push. Instead, tell them to help your customers to make wise economic decision based on their particular life circumstance.
(c) Make your resource competitive price wise. Your sales pitch of search-ability and link-ability do not justify the huge price premium of your products over your competitors.
(d) Focus on long term profitability rather than rapid expansion: don't be greedy at a time when the rest of the world is heading into a bad recession.
(e) Show that you care about your customers as people rather than as revenue streams only. I appreciate the Christmas deals you gave us recently and the New Year Bible Study Challenge.
(f) Remember where you came from and how you got started. Do not lose your core customer base to your competitors. Continue you generosity to seminary students.
(g) Provide a low cost solution to young evangelicals (apology to users of different traditions): perhaps have a ESV Study Bible or NIV Zondervan Study bible bundled with Lexham free resource at an attractive low price to compete with the leading Bible apps which have extremely high market share. This is the market that you cannot afford to lose.
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Paul Lee said:
(g) Provide a low cost solution to young evangelicals (apology to users of different traditions): perhaps have a ESV Study Bible or NIV Zondervan Study bible bundled with Lexham free resource at an attractive low price to compete with the leading Bible apps which have extremely high market share. This is the market that you cannot afford to lose.
It was my purchase about 20 years ago of the Nelson Electronic Bible Reference Library ($20) that introduced me to Logos. As a result, I have continued to upgrade with different base packages and individual resources and collections. Without such a small investment at the beginning, I may have never tried Logos.
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Whyndell Grizzard said:
My opinion- if you don't like it ignore it- your comments are an over reach.
If my "comments are an overreach", perhaps, many more people have much to be concern about.
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Paul Lee said:
If Faithlife were to close, would we be able to access our books?
What factual information or pattern of actions causes you to raise such question?
Paul Lee said:I firmly believe that if the company works to serve the Kingdom, the company will be blessed. If the company works to serve Mammon, it will need to face the consequence of its choice.
I don't know where, but see the threads on Faithlife/Logos Christian Company- Christian products.
Paul Lee said:(g) Provide a low cost solution to young evangelicals (apology to users of different traditions): perhaps have a ESV Study Bible or NIV Zondervan Study bible bundled with Lexham free resource at an attractive low price to compete with the leading Bible apps which have extremely high market share. This is the market that you cannot afford to lose.
This point make get better feedback and attention under the Suggestion Forum Section.
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Ronald Quick said:
It was my purchase about 20 years ago of the Nelson Electronic Bible Reference Library ($20) that introduced me to Logos. As a result, I have continued to upgrade with different base packages and individual resources and collections ...
That was my first contact with Logos as well.
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