Louis Berkhof writing style?
Why does Louis write Roman Catholic/Catholicism in this way? Is he so passionately against them to write this way, or is it something else?
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LOL - well, R---- C--- is the name of the character in Archibald's book. Redacted for privacy I assume.
I see my error now,,,[:$][:$][:$][:$][:$]
This post can be deleted, or left for humor.
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Hi Anthony,
If you read the context closely, he is not in fact speaking about Roman Catholicism. Instead he is speaking about a person identified only by the initials R.C. in the book by Archibald Alexander - Thoughts on Religious Experience. R.C. is certainly not Roman Catholic, since he is reading solid reformed literature and seeking assurance of faith, also known as assurance of salvation. Assurance of salvation is not possible within Roman Catholicism!
I always remember my Systematic Theology lecturer asking us which Protestant doctrine of the first Reformers was condemned in the most terrible terms by Roman Caatholics. We all guessed justification by faith alone, or sola scriptura but it was in fact assurance of salvation!
Colin.
~edit - I see you saw your mistake! I didn't realise it had taken me so long to type.
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Ha, yes; if I had spent more than 5 seconds on my assessment I think it may have came to light. [8-|] My fiance had a chuckle when I shared it with her. Thanks for the response.
Colin said:I always remember my Systematic Theology lecturer asking us which Protestant doctrine of the first Reformers was condemned in the most terrible terms by Roman Catholics. We all guessed justification by faith alone, or sola scriptura but it was in fact assurance of salvation!
I find this interesting! I thought this book would be more focused on 'obtaining' an assurance of faith (re-assurance), which it does address; but it is more focused on the question 'is it necessary to/a part of salvation' - and it has been a wholesome read. It does lightly go over the Roman Catholic position in the beginning chapters. I should note he does spell out the words "Roman Catholic" there. [:P]
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I laugh at this because when I first read this some time ago I had the same reaction until I read further.
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Lol Dal!
MJ certainly knows much more about Roman Catholicism than I do!
A quick search online turned up this from the Council of Trent.
"If any one saith, that he will for certain, of an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance unto the end,-unless he have learned this by special revelation; let him be anathema. (Sixth session, Canon XVI)"
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Colin said:
Lol Dal!
MJ certainly knows much more about Roman Catholicism than I do!
A quick search online turned up this from the Council of Trent.
"If any one saith, that he will for certain, of an absolute and infallible certainty, have that great gift of perseverance unto the end,-unless he have learned this by special revelation; let him be anathema. (Sixth session, Canon XVI)"
LOL I guess 1 John 5:13 hadn't been written yet (special revelation)...😁😉😇
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From TIP of the day (logic): Knowing - the first step of apologetics
MJ. Smith said:Absolutely everything I say is denied and present in an alternative way by other theorists.
1. Let's start with a Venn diagram "defining" knowledge:
wikipedia: belief said:
In this view, knowledge is the intersection of what you believe and what is actually true. However, this allows things that happen to be true that you believe for totally incorrect reasons to be treated as "knowledge" It allows for absurdities such as "I know God exists because I read it in my tea leaves on April 1, 2000." This is obviously not what we want to use with a New Atheist.
So Edmund Gettier in a paper titled 'Is Justified True Belief Knowledge?' modified the diagram to this:
wikipedia: belief said:
This limits our knowledge to the portion of the intersection between our beliefs and truth that we can justify.
Which sense of knowing is applicable to 1 John 5:13 and which sense is applicable to "absolute and infallible certainty"? ... no, I won't even follow the linguistics associated with your statement. Would you prefer a hound or a snarky statement?
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Along with a number of other churches - based as much upon epistemology as theology. You might frame the question by a comparison of the attributes of divine knowledge vs. human knowledge.Colin said:Assurance of salvation is not possible within Roman Catholicism!
The author of a standard dogmatics reference book puts it this way "Ludwig Ott argues that a high moral, human certainty of having sanctifying grace is possible, ... but by no means faith which is believing with divine certainty ..."
End of discussion on grounds it is outside parameters of the forum. But I do have Ott in Verbum - got it before it was pulled due to licensing issues so I could take a shot of search results ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Thanks for that MJ - clear and logical as ever. You're right, this is not the place for a discussion but I do find your explanation very interesting and I'm glad the subject came up!
Shalom,
Colin
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