Layouts taking forever to open
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Logos 7 will automatically purge old unnamed layouts but it keeps all layouts you have explicitly named. (The thinking was that if you named it, it was important. We didn't ask "what will happen if someone updates the same layout daily for five years?"
That describes me to a "T" because I use a fairly complicated daily Bible reading/devotional layout. I want it updated each day so that I can return to where I left off.
It's now time to ask that question. For those of you who are heavy layouts users, what would be a good "data retention" policy?
Keep only the most recent 5? 10? 30? copies of a named layout. Also delete any duplicate copies older than 30? 60? 90? days?
Personally I don't care about returning to previous layout so long as I can return to where I left off.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Keep only the most recent 5? 10? 30? copies of a named layout. Also delete any duplicate copies older than 30? 60? 90? days?
Keep 10 Copies of named layouts (why keep any exact duplicate copies?)
Keep copies for 180 days.
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Keep only the most recent 5? 10? 30? copies of a named layout. Also delete any duplicate copies older than 30? 60? 90? days?
Keep the most recent 5 (that should be enough). Retain for 60 days at the most.
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I would look at a 14 day layout 'barrier'. Older than 14 days will consist of a single (most recent) copy of named layouts only. Within the 10 days, everything is saved up to a maximum of 5 copies.
I suppose that the two numbers could be made user changeable in the settings ... ?
Bradley: If layouts are going to be looked at ... could you look at the way that shortcuts are handled. I have not checked lately because I stopped using shortcuts because of a design flaw. I am talking about the horizontal shortcuts dragged to the top of the app, not the vertical ones within the Layout menu.These horizontal shortcuts (used to?) point to a particular instance of a layout. Not much point for those of us who update layouts ... and maybe a problem when those historical layouts are culled. What I would expect is that the shortcut point to the name (internal ID?) of a desktop, and then activates the latest version of that desktop. I would like to have three shortcuts for my favourite three layouts that always bring the latest version of the layout ... never having to open the layout menu ... if we could also have a button 'update latest layout'.
2017 15" MBP, iPad Pro
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Gao Lu said:
This already exists. I just created a shortcut for this. After waiting several minutes for the layout to open (reason I created this thread) I was able to get this snapshot. I just dragged it to the shortcut bar. But I used to think it was just updating whereas now I believe an entirely new copy was being created and permanently saved.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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So this must be my problem as well because I heavily use layouts and am constantly updating them.
However, NEVER ONCE have I EVER gone back to a layout I updated, so for me, it really doesn't matter how long they are kept. I'm happy with them be purged but I can see how others may not be, so how about 5 layout saves for 14 days? That's my vote.
Edited to add: I'm still hoping that a day will come when we can share layouts. I think my students who purchased logos at my suggestion would actually start using it!
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Keep only the most recent 5? 10? 30? copies of a named layout. Also delete any duplicate copies older than 30? 60? 90? days?
Keep the most recent 5 copies (in the instance that defines them) and delete duplicate copies (synced from another instance?) after 60 days.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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For those of you who are heavy layouts users, what would be a good "data retention" policy?
I'm a layout user, and I'm 6'3" and 238 lbs, so you could say I'm a heavy layout user. I'm also relatively tall, but I digress.
Here are my current layouts-
Of these, eight are marked 'temp' layouts that I'll use once and delete. They may linger for a couple months while I get through these particular readings.
Three others were used a few times and haven't been re-used in some time.
There are about seven more, give or take a couple, that I only use a couple times a year.
That still leaves me with quite a few more than ten that I don't want to disappear.
But I also don't want layouts taking forever to open.
I believe the new customizable Quickstart and Homepage layouts will mitigate this a bit...I've already saved four or five of my saved layouts over the provided ones. (It would sure be nice if the titles of those were editable, BTW.) So that cuts a few more out.
Even so, I'd say my minimum would be around 20. Not optimal, for sure.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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Wait. I have a question. When you say "delete," and "time" are you meaning that layouts would be deleted by a certain date if they aren't used, or only copies of NAMED layouts that have since been updated?
Okay, let me try by explaining again.
I have SEVERAL named layouts that I use as templates for my study time. I click on it and use it, and then if I want to save it, I save it under a new name, but I KEEP my template unchanged (unless I update my template).
So, the updated template is the only one I would need of THAT one, and the old ones I am fine with them disappearing after a couple of days. Then, the named ones I made FROM my template I would obviously want to keep as well, until I change or delete them. Am I making sense?
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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The application would never delete the only saved instance of a named layout (in this new proposal).
The issue here is that whenever you update a named layout, a copy is made (with the same name), and those copies are saved forever. We're talking about deleting those old copies (that we assume you are unlikely to go back to after a certain amount of time).
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The application would never delete the only saved instance of a named layout (in this new proposal).
The issue here is that whenever you update a named layout, a copy is made (with the same name), and those copies are saved forever. We're talking about deleting those old copies (that we assume you are unlikely to go back to after a certain amount of time).
Okay, that's perfect for me! No...I have NEVER EVER gone back and used those old copies. I just wanted to make sure that this isn't a matter of HOW long a named layout has been around but how long an OLD COPY of a named layout has been around.
I agree this needs to be done, especially if it's slowing down layouts so much.
Cynthia
Romans 8:28-38
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Bradley Grainger (Faithlife) said:Keep only the most recent 5? 10? 30? copies of a named layout. Also delete any duplicate copies older than 30? 60? 90? days?
We're talking about deleting those old copies (that we assume you are unlikely to go back to after a certain amount of time).
I'm confused. Please clarify "old copies" in relation to "most recent copies" and "duplicate copies". Which will be retained by number & which will be retained by time?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
I'm confused. Please clarify "old copies" in relation to "most recent copies" and "duplicate copies".
In all cases we're talking about multiple layout snapshots with the same name. Create a layout called "My Amazing Layout". Update it twice. You now have three "copies". One is "the most recent copy". Two are "old copies". "Duplicate copies" is probably a bad name; I meant "additional versions of a named layout with the same name".
Dave Hooton said:Which will be retained by number & which will be retained by time?
That's the question I'm asking for input on.
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Logos 7 will automatically purge old unnamed layouts
Are these "snapshots" and "Application closed"? On what basis are they purged?
Create a layout called "My Amazing Layout". Update it twice. You now have three "copies". One is "the most recent copy". Two are "old copies"
I have 7 copies. If the five "most recent" will be kept that means there are two "old copies"; which will be deleted after a certain time? Which also means that the five "most recent" copies of every layout will be kept forever??
Consider
Will the app consider Laptop 6 and Desktop 6 for deletion, or only consider them in the occurrence from which they were synced?
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
Will the app consider Laptop 6 and Desktop 6 for deletion, or only consider them in the occurrence from which they were synced?
Whether you have 5 named layouts or 50 named layouts, the most recent of every named layout will always be retained (regardless of which device they were synced from). The app would never delete the latest version of any named layout, regardless of the total number of layouts you have, or how much time has passed. You can expect to always have at least one copy of each named layout.
Any future deletion would only affect older versions (copies, duplicates) of each named layout. These would be the ones with orange comments, in the screenshot:
As for whether it would keep 5/10/??? copies of each named layout, or merely delete older copies of a named layout once 30/60/??? days have passed, that's what Bradley is asking us to suggest, that Logos might implement what most people prefer.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Although I don't use layouts myself, I think it would be sensible to have the following rules:
- Never delete the most recent copy of a saved layout.
- Keep a maximum of five versions of each saved layout.
- Delete old versions of saved layouts after thirty days.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
- Never delete the most recent copy of a saved layout.
- Keep a maximum of five versions of each saved layout.
- Delete old versions of saved layouts after thirty days.
The first rule is a guaranteed certainty! (It's good to state it to resolve any confusion.)
The third rule might mean that there is only the most recent copy of a saved layout, when all other copies of that layout are older than 30 days. Is it acceptable to eventually only have one version of each saved layout? (Probably so, but just want people to be aware of what that means.)
Since the third rule trumps the second rule, the second rule ends up as, "Keep a maximum of five versions of each saved layout within the last 30 days."
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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PetahChristian said:
Since the third rule trumps the second rule, the second rule ends up as, "Keep a maximum of five versions of each saved layout within the last 30 days."
That makes sense to me.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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PetahChristian said:
Since the third rule trumps the second rule, the second rule ends up as, "Keep a maximum of five versions of each saved layout within the last 30 days."
Agreed. But I kept them separate because I thought some people might say, "I agree with rule (2), but would prefer not to have rule (3)", or vice versa.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Hi Bruce,
Was just wondering if you have had any resolution to this problem of slow opening layouts.
The thread seems to be leaning towards a problem with the accumulation of layouts building up and not being purged. I checked this in my Logos and found that I also had many instances as displayed on the right hand side of the Layouts dropdown (not near as many as you however). I use layouts extensively, as you mentioned you do as well, but I only have 7 created, named and saved layouts on the left hand side. My most used study layout has 3 frames (or panels; forgive me, not certain of the nomenclature) and a combined total of 25 tabs as well as the Info panel. It takes me 23 seconds to launch this layout and be able to use it
I deleted all of the extra layouts that had accumulated on the right side of the Layouts dropdown individually (very time consuming) so that all that remained were the latest updates of my 7 created layouts. After doing this and re-launching Logos I did not experience any significant decrease in the launch time for the layouts that I have. As mentioned by another poster in this thread I now manually purge the older updated layouts daily before I close Logos. I also noticed that every time I shut Logos down an instance of "Application Closed" shows up and wants to accumulate in the right hand side of the Layouts dropdown. Could be by design but not sure of the significance.
I know that I am not experiencing the time delays that you have and I didn't have near the number of accumulated saves on the right side nor anywhere near your number of created saved layouts on the left but it makes me wonder if this is what is causing the delay for you or the problem lies elsewhere.
Anyway, I was just checking to see if the Logos Desktop Team has reached a definitive answer and solution for you regarding this problem or if you are still experiencing 3+ minute delays..
Blessings,
Gary
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Mark Barnes said:
Agreed. But I kept them separate because I thought some people might say, "I agree with rule (2), but would prefer not to have rule (3)", or vice versa.
I think both rules effectively work well together, and it is a good proposal as it stands, Mark.
Thanks to FL for including Carta and a Hebrew audio bible in Logos 9!
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Gary Mendenhall said:
Anyway, I was just checking to see if the Logos Desktop Team has reached a definitive answer and solution for you regarding this problem or if you are still experiencing 3+ minute delays..
Thanks for asking Gary. I'm sure that the desktop team is working on it but I have not yet received any resolution to how long layouts take to open. I think they are watching this thread closely as they determine the best way to proceed. I'm looking forward to having this resolved in due time. Thanks again!
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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I'm just checking in again to ask someone at Faithlife if any progress has been made on this issue. Lately I have noticed what seems to be a slight improvement on loading my layouts but it still took 1 minute and 40 seconds to load.
Thanks.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Thanks for staying on top of this Bruce.
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Bump...an update would be appreciated.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:
Bump...an update would be appreciated.
There is no new news to report on this issue.
Andrew Batishko | Logos software developer
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Thanks Andrew. I'll just have to be patient and wait.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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I like Mark's proposed rules above.
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Even more - after reading this thread and thinking about it, I decided to go back in the layouts menu and delete a lot of layouts. Mine go back to 2009. I didn't realize I had so many. And, often my practice had to been to update anytime I added info. to a layout. So, I had a lot of old layouts where newer ones should have replaced them.
So, after deleting them I saw a TREMENDOUS increase in application start up time.
I have been a habitual complainer about how slow Logos was... And, I had recently replaced my old HP laptop with a newer system with 16GB RAM, 512SSD and new Skylake processor, Windows 10 Pro. I still no appreciable increase in load time until now.
It was taking 1minute 45 seconds to load Logos 7. Now, I get the orange circle at 15-20 seconds! Wow!
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