O'Brien NSBT volumes
Comments
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MJ. Smith said:
Surprised you don't mind theft ... most Logos users have a thing about the 10 commandments. [Sorry but I'm getting frustrated at the continued attempts to justify / mitigate the fault rather than simply accepting it for what it is and moving on.]
You're just saying that because some weirdo wanted to quote a comment of yours in his paper. I bet you if the guy that wanted to quote you was guilty of the man made plagiarism concept you'd be trying to find a way to justify him too or if he had quoted your idea as his own you would just keep quiet and take it from him. Mistakes, yes...wrong course of action by the publishers...heck yes!
My 2 cents 😉
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DAL said:
You're just saying that because some weirdo wanted to quote a comment of yours in his paper.
wikipedia said:The Chicago Theological Seminary (CTS) is an Christian ecumenical American seminary located in Chicago, Illinois, and is one of several seminaries historically affiliated with the United Church of Christ. It is the oldest institution of higher education in Chicago, originally established in 1855 under the direction of abolitionist the Rev. Stephen Peet and the Congregational Church (now the United Church of Christ) by charter of the Illinois legislature.
First, it is impolite to call a professor at Colombia a "weirdo" especially since you don't know which professor you are insulting. Second, all but one generation since Stephen Peet has had at least one academic in it ... I'm of the 4th generation. Yes, my Dad was a cattle rancher, my maternal grandfather was an academic ...so yes, I care about a cow's pedigree and the lineage of intellectual property ... and lots of stuff in between. And don't forget, I also care about logic. [:P]
DAL said:wrong course of action by the publishers
Standard, expected course of action ... do you have any counter examples? Were you as outraged when Driscoll's sermons were pulled? Please read http://thewartburgwatch.com/2013/11/29/mark-driscoll-and-d-a-carson-believe-pastors-who-plagiarize-should-resign/
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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DAL said:
You're just saying that because some weirdo wanted to quote a comment of yours in his paper.
Hi DAL,
That comment seems unjustifiable to me in all kinds of ways. If you take time to read MJ's other contributions to the plagiarism threads you'll see that MJ is certainly not basing her opinion on this episode. She is simply using it as an illustration of an academic going beyond the letter of the law (in this case clear academic guidelines about plagiarism) to give credit for an idea to bless a student/colleague/friend.
Colin
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It's ridiculous that there is any argument over this. What Peter O'Brien did was at the least lazy, and at the worst dishonest. I teach high school English, and my students know that if they copy large parts of another's work and do not cite them properly then they will get a zero (though I do let them rewrite). There is no argument. Do we really want to set a precedent where we start excusing this kind of behavior? Sometimes people on this forum just look for reasons to be obtuse. That doesn't mean I think O'Brien is a horrible person, but what he did was wrong, and he is suffering the consequences. If others do the same thing, then maybe all of this will serve as a corrective.
Remember, it's not a matter of using other scholars' works; it's a matter of properly citing them, which is simple.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
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MJ. Smith said:
Bobby Terhune said:
Jesse,
just a thought, why can't the author fix the existing manuscript? this volume was very well received, and it seems a shame to toss it out.
Jesse Myers said:Hi Bobby,
Unfortunately, the nature of the text's problems precluded this option.
These two quotes belong to the thread about William Varner's EEC commentary on James (published by Lexham Press), and are not related to the O'Brien volumes (published by Eerdmans and IVP separately).
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MJ. Smith I see what you mean about Mark Driscoll's sermons. I do not own any of the NSBT volumes, because I do not care for D. A. Carson, and his way of teaching. I am seeing the "light" now. So set me straight: Was what O'Brien did, is that he quoted from other Bible Scholars, and did not give credit to them as in a BIBLIOGRAPHY?
And yes DAL it is very impolite to call anyone a "weirdo" in my book - you were wrong on that one.
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My understanding is that the author's work in question was cited in the bibliography, but O'Brien was not careful to distinguish between his own thoughts and the author's he quoted. How extensive this was, no one knows yet. Eerdmans said the Hebrews volume was the worst case and O'Brien's other commentaries were less problematic.
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If you are still in doubt about the extent of it, since the material is available you could do a bit of your own research.
Some might complain that the publishers are greedy etc... OTOH we should also consider that they suffered financial loss to right the wrongs, and so far I haven't heard of any talk of suing for breach of contract.
Consider also the wider world, how they look at Christian academics. A witness needs to be maintained.
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Ok thank you
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Quick update: we're working with the publisher on this but will not have an answer on how we will proceed until the end of October at the earliest.
Senior Director, Content Products
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Appreciate the update. What's the question that's being answered?
We will still be able to keep our resources right?
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Andrew Hayes said:
What's the question that's being answered?
I don't have all the specifics. It's mainly a matter of coordinating with IVP to make sure that we handle returns/credits the way they'd like us to.
Andrew Hayes said:We will still be able to keep our resources right?
Definitely. Absolutely. They are yours.
Senior Director, Content Products
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I just purchased the NSBT set yesterday, and sadly, the O'Brien volumes were already taken out. Wish I could have them on Logos. They are still useful for study purposes.
Director
Elyon Family Clinic & Surgery Pte Ltd
Singapore
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Does anyone have any copies of his work on Logos or .pdf, .mobi, or .epub that they wouldn't mind sharing?
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John Sherk said:
Does any have any copies of his work on Logos or .pdf, .mobi, or .epub that they wouldn't mind sharing?
In order to ensure users comply with copyright laws and Faithlife stay in business each user needs to purchase thei own copy of a resource, they can not be shared. I realise these are no longer available for purchase but that does not make them a free for all to be shared around. Faithlife books can not be shared, you would need to find someone who has a license to them willing to sell that license to you and you'd need to pay them their asking price plus a license transfer fee to Fatihlife to proces the transaction.
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Vincent Chia said:
I just purchased the NSBT set yesterday, and sadly, the O'Brien volumes were already taken out. Wish I could have them on Logos. They are still useful for study purposes.
Salvation to the Ends of the Earth: https://www.logos.com/product/189103/salvation-to-the-ends-of-the-earth-a-biblical-theology-of-mission-2nd-ed
It’s a second edition that removed O’Brien and put another author along with Kostenberger 👍😁👌 Yes! Now I’ll have a complete 49 volume set of NSBT.
DAL0 -
Thanks for the heads up.
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