EEC Update
Comments
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Here's my beef... Every single one of these titles had a 2018 date attached to them 2-3 weeks ago. AFTER the 30 day return policy expires for people who purchased during March Madness, the dates get removed and now they are "In Writing"--which according to Derek Brown is the first stage of the four stage process. Do you understand how that looks to people? Jeremiah should've never even had a 5/1/18 ship date if it was still in the first stage of production! That was false information. Plain and simple. If 5/1/18 was ever a realistic date it should be further along in the production process than square one. There was no update about this. Please address this.
I love Lexham. I think you do good work. I understand you have a hard job. I'm not a troll or your enemy. But Lexham left concrete dates up during a HUGE sale indicating that these titles would be released soon (and in the cases of Jeremiah, Leviticus, and Amos almost immediately). So people read the comments warning about problems with shipping and ignore them because Lexham seems to have fixed all the issues. Now the dates are gone and Jeremiah which was supposed to ship 10 days ago is now back at the first stage of the process. Same with Leviticus. These were factors to people in the buying process. Customer purchases. 31 days later: ALL dates get removed and every single commentary that was slated to ship soon is now back at the first stage of the production process (less Amos is allegedly coming 5/18/18) with no communcation about it from anyone.
I'm not mad. I just want Lexham to get it together and avoid even the appearance of being dishonest. I understand things happen. But everything else on Logos has a reliable ship date. Take for example Michael Heiser's book on Angels. It ships 3Q 2018. Now while no man knows the day or the hour I have confidence that it will ship sometime between July 1st and September 30th. That's reasonable.
These are issues that I would appreciate Brannon and Derek addressing in the next update: 1) May release dates of Jeremiah and Leviticus being removed in favor of square one in the production process and 2) why were the concrete dates removed AFTER the 30 day refund period. Not saying I want my money back... I just want them to address it because it looks shady. It did not go unnoticed. "Set thine house in order."
Repsectfully,
Nathan
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Jake Mailhot said:
As part of our desire to share more about the progress of forthcoming EEC volumes, I want to give you a behind the scenes update for a few volumes. But first it may be helpful to give you a brief overview of the major stages of production that each of the EEC volumes goes through before it is shipped off to you. The four major stages of production:
1. In Writing: the author is researching and writing the commentary.
2. General Editing: an initial draft of the manuscript has been completed and sent to the general editors of the EEC. During this stage the general editors work closely with the authors to provide substantive feedback to help improve the commentary.
3. Manuscript Editing: after the general editors are satisfied with revisions from the author, the manuscript is handed off to the Lexham Press editorial team. They will clean up the manuscript and prepare it for publication.
4. Printing: once editorial for a manuscript is complete, we send it off to be built as a Logos edition and/or to the printer for print publication.Wait… now all dates have been removed, and replaced by very insightful labels that show if a volume is in writing, or in review, or has a publication date.
The bad news is this: If you are waiting for a particular volume, your chances are slim to get it anytime soon. Galatians is the only commentary for the NT writing has started on, so that one might be out in 3-4 years from now, but for the rest the overall picture is really concerning….
Out of the 37 volumes that still need to be published, only 1 has a publication date, 3 are in review, and 4 are in writing. All the others, 29 commentaries in total, are not even in writing!
(Faithlife, please tell me I misunderstood the labels and a lot of researching and writing is happening on all these 29 volumes!)
Publication date (1): Amos & Jonah & Micah
In review (3): Joshua, 1&2 Chronicles, Daniel
In writing (4): Leviticus, Ecclesiastes, Jeremiah, Galatians
Not started yet (29): Genesis, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Judges/Ruth, 1&2 Kings, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Hosea/Joel/Obadiah, Nahum/Habakkuk/Zephaniah, Haggai/Zechariah/Malachi, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Colossians, 1&2 Thessalonians, 1&2 Timothy/Titus, Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, Revelation.
Knowing that writing and publishing an academic commentary can take many years… is this just the announcement of the death of the EEC as a series? (serious question!)
Faithlife sold this whole series with literally this advertisement: ““The entire 44-volume set will be available in 2019—an unprecedented publication timetable for a commentary of this magnitude.” Many people pre-paid for the entire series. Right now, 2018, no work has started on the great majority of commentaries.
Customers don’t complain about the published volumes (they’re quite good!), they understand delays in writer’s schedules. But is this not beyond acceptable?
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This is not just a Lexham Press issue. This is system-wide with Logos. I have a Lexham Bible Guide for Ruth (Logos Edition) that has been under contract since April 7, 2017. I realize that this can happen with Pre-Pubs. But the fact remains that Logos advertises to get customers onboard and then they delay production for various reasons.
Frankly, the EEC rollout has been upsetting. If I had committed to purchasing the entire set upfront without the set complete, I would have been seriously disappointed.
This happened with the Teach the Text Commentary set by Baker Publishing. But that was because the publishing company ended the series incomplete. That probably can't be helped. But Faithlife should provide complete series when possible.
I have decided to buy only what I need when I need it, and then get a great deal when it comes along. If you are needing a product, and they advertise that it will soon be available, you should not have to get your hopes up. But I have to work under the assumption that things will be delayed.
Faithlife has great products and I will keep purchasing them. But I won't commit to products that look like they have a long-term production.
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/jimerwin/ - a postmodern pastor in a digital world
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André,
When we updated the product page with the new publication status updates, we removed all of the estimated release dates (as we said we would). For the volumes that we don't have any concrete update for (as provided by Derek), we did not include a publication status at all. This does not mean that they are not currently being worked on. I can assure you that there are more than just four volumes currently in the writing stage. When I have more concrete details for these volumes, I will update the product page and post here on this forum thread. But I'm hesitant to assume anything until I have those details in hand from Derek.
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Jake Mailhot said:
This does not mean that they are not currently being worked on. I can assure you that there are more than just four volumes currently in the writing stage.
Glad to hear this, Jake. Looking forward to a more comprehensive update.
I recall you said in march:
Jake Mailhot said:As for a comprehensive update, I'm working on collecting those details--many of them have been difficult to track down. I should have more to share later this week or early next week. Thanks.
I assumed that the latest update to the product page was the comprehensive update. Good to hear you're still getting ready to get the accurate information out for the whole series (not just for a couple volumes). It's much needed. Removing inaccurate information without providing accurate information isn't all that helpful at this point.
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André Kamphuis said:
Faithlife sold this whole series with literally this advertisement: ““The entire 44-volume set will be available in 2019—an unprecedented publication timetable for a commentary of this magnitude.” Many people pre-paid for the entire series. Right now, 2018, no work has started on the great majority of commentaries.
IT is truly sad that by now the majority of the volumes are not out but I believe it was a naivety of the complexities of publishing and not a willful deception. We have been made aware in the last couple of years that it will move beyond that date. It is truly sad though that we don't have a more tentative date... Although I realize if they said "Going well all volumes should be released by fall 2024", come January 2025 with 10 volumes yet to be released you would have people upset again, so I can see why no new set completion date is out there, but it is a sad thing to see 2019 turn into a nebulous completion that feels we may never reach.
-dan
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Dan Francis said:
IT is truly sad that by now the majority of the volumes are not out but I believe it was a naivety of the complexities of publishing and not a willful deception.
I don't have a dog in this hunt. But if memory serves, Logos wanted folks to sign up for the whole thing, with the promise of shizam! That sounds not accidental or naive.
- Wasn't the project already iffy, when they came to Logos? And credit due, Bob could have simply shrugged.
- An academic commentary limited to a high-end software platform was warning enough.
- I'd assume, given the equation, each produced volume is 'thank your lucky stars'. The odds were never favorable.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Denise said:Dan Francis said:
IT is truly sad that by now the majority of the volumes are not out but I believe it was a naivety of the complexities of publishing and not a willful deception.
I don't have a dog in this hunt. But if memory serves, Logos wanted folks to sign up for the whole thing, with the promise of shizam! That sounds not accidental or naive.
- Wasn't the project already iffy, when they came to Logos? And credit due, Bob could have simply shrugged.
- An academic commentary limited to a high-end software platform was warning enough.
- I'd assume, given the equation, each produced volume is 'thank your lucky stars'. The odds were never favorable.
It's not the fact the series will now be completed years after it was promised, it's the fact that through it all the lack of information about what is going on with it never arrived, and we still have a problem getting information about it.
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Matt Hamrick said:
It's not the fact the series will now be completed years after it was promised, it's the fact that through it all the lack of information about what is going on with it never arrived, and we still have a problem getting information about it.
Totally agree Matt, from the outset I never expected the timeline presented to be met. I am not upset by the delay's. Writing a commentary is big project and I'd rather extra time be taken if required than have a rushed product.
The issue is the lack of clear open communication from Faithlife...but that's something I have been saying for many years. They just don't get it because they are too busy chasing their next big idea to take the care and consideration to do communication well.
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doc said:
They just don't get it because they are too busy chasing their next big idea to take the care and consideration to do communication well.
Well said. [Y] [Y]
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I don't think that it's the occasional delay that concerns people, it's the continual delays. For example - Amos, Jonah and Micah is scheduled to be released this month. However, it was initially scheduled for release May of 2017, this was pushed back to December 2017, then January, then March, then April and now May 2018.
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doc said:
The issue is the lack of clear open communication from Faithlife...but that's something I have been saying for many years. They just don't get it because they are too busy chasing their next big idea to take the care and consideration to do communication well.
True, but it is also the reality that after a seven year search they still have not been able to even identify authors for some of the texts. If they have truly made this a priority that is very discouraging, if it has not been a priority that is also discouraging! Either way, I have just reached the point that I will be happy with whatever is produced in my lifetime. I would certainly not spend money in advance like that again, but live and learn [:)]
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This is why I sold my set- if I need it and its available- I might purchase it- but at 63 i'll use the $$ elsewhere.
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I would request not thanking me for making a huge mistake. Detailed updates cannot hide the fact that this product has become a marketing fiasco.
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On the bright side, the Amos Micah Jonah volume downloaded last night for me
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Mattillo said:
On the bright side, the Amos Micah Jonah volume downloaded last night for me
Yes. I have looked through the commentary today, and again I am very pleased with what I'm seeing so far.
This IS a great series. I guess that's why I feel so disappointed about the major delays and frustrated by the poor/inaccurate info being shared. Buying this entire series is the only purchase at Logos that I regret, despite the fact that I absolutely love the commentaries that have come out. Since several volumes were give-aways and others highly discounted, I could have saved a lot of money and spent it on stuff I can actually use in my lifetime. Anyway, every time a new volume does come out (and this is only the second one in three years time!), I feel a little bit of comfort. [:)]
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André Kamphuis said:
I have looked through the commentary today, and again I am very pleased with what I'm seeing so far.
[Y]
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Hey,
Can anybody make a list and resources timestamp that have published?
Ex, lls:.....
Thanks
2 Peter 3:18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.
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I could look in my library but it's not accurate since there have been updates to the EEC volumes. I could look in my orders but that wouldn't work either because I bought the entire set before it was published. I can't help you so maybe Faithlife can.
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And to make things even more complicated James was released and pulled due to plagiarism concern... I really wish they had simply corrected the errors and kept it. At least I own it but it was a fine volume.
-dan
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Ben said:
Can anybody make a list and resources timestamp that have published?
Sorting by Electronic Pub date will give the year of release. The Publication date in the next column would yield the same result.
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FL Staff or EEC Staff
Are there any updates on the EEC? I looked at the product page today on logos.com and I noticed that some have "In Writing" next to them and others "In Review with Series Editors" but the vast majority don't have anything. Does this mean those authors haven't even started them yet?
Thank you
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FL Staff or EEC Staff
Are there any updates on the EEC? I looked at the product page today on logos.com and I noticed that some have "In Writing" next to them and others "In Review with Series Editors" but the vast majority don't have anything. Does this mean those authors haven't even started them yet?
Thank you
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Mattillo,
Thanks for checking in again. I currently have no new updates regarding the EEC. I'll see if Derek has anything to add.
As for the volumes without a publication status, I'll refer you to my post from May:
Jake Mailhot said:When we updated the product page with the new publication status updates, we removed all of the estimated release dates (as we said we would). For the volumes that we don't have any concrete update for (as provided by Derek), we did not include a publication status at all. This does not mean that they are not currently being worked on. I can assure you that there are more than just four volumes currently in the writing stage. When I have more concrete details for these volumes, I will update the product page and post here on this forum thread. But I'm hesitant to assume anything until I have those details in hand from Derek.
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Thank you Jake!
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The product page's bio of the author of the commentary Philemon in this series should be updated, as he's no longer a grad student. The author of the commentary on Song of Songs has also moved up and over in the academic world, as has the author of the commentary on the Epistles of John, while the author of the one on Jude is no longer a professor. And I noticed a change in another published EEC author's bio that I haven't mentioned.
Given that the series is still under publication and that most of the changes enhance the authors' academic credibility, I think that someone from FL should check and potentially revise all of the bios, at least of the authors not yet deceased.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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Thanks for the update Jake, I was wondering about this today. It would be good if this update was in a more obvious place... I only found it through the link in the product page comments.
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I asked back in March:
André Kamphuis said:Out of the 37 volumes that still need to be published, only 1 has a publication date, 3 are in review, and 4 are in writing. All the others, 29 commentaries in total, are not even in writing!
(Faithlife, please tell me I misunderstood the labels and that a lot of researching and writing is happening on all these 29 volumes!)
Publication date (1): Amos/Jonah/Micah
In review (3): Joshua, 1&2 Chronicles, Daniel
In writing (4): Leviticus, Ecclesiastes, Jeremiah, Galatians
Not started yet (29): Genesis, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Judges/Ruth, 1&2 Kings, Job, Psalms, Proverbs, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Hosea/Joel/Obadiah, Nahum/Habakkuk/Zephaniah, Haggai/Zechariah/Malachi, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Acts, Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Colossians, 1&2 Thessalonians, 1&2 Timothy/Titus, Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, Revelation.
Jake Mailhot said:When we updated the product page with the new publication status updates, we removed all of the estimated release dates (as we said we would). For the volumes that we don't have any concrete update for (as provided by Derek), we did not include a publication status at all. This does not mean that they are not currently being worked on. I can assure you that there are more than just four volumes currently in the writing stage. When I have more concrete details for these volumes, I will update the product page and post here on this forum thread
How difficult can it be to just find out if a commentary is in writing or not? [^o)]
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André Kamphuis said:
How difficult can it be to just find out if a commentary is in writing or not?
Depends on who is writing it - if it were myself, I'd be annoyed if asked more than once a year or so and would provide a very sassy response if I felt nagged. P.S. I lost an agent when I asked for an update after 6 months. I learned my lesson.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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