Why all the bundling? Request to Logos/Faithlife staff

Humble request to FL to stop with the unnecessary bundling of books and/or to break up bundles

Is it possible to please break up some of the bundles in Logos? Why the bundling in the first place? There are several books I’m interested in but they are tied into bundles and I don’t want to spend $100+ to get the one book I want to read (some examples below). If you are going to go the bundle route, could they be broken up after a period of time so I could buy individual books and journals?

Out of the examples below, I’d love to purchase…

What Does the Bible Really Teach about Homosexuality? by Kevin DeYoung which is found in https://www.logos.com/product/55583/crossway-christian-life-collection

The Second Coming: Signs of Christ’s Return and the End of the Age by John MacArthur found in https://www.logos.com/product/55576/crossway-theology-collection-2

Bibliotheca Sacra 2015 journal articles found in https://www.logos.com/product/54391/master-journal-bundle-21

Mere Christianity found in https://www.logos.com/product/49027/the-cs-lewis-collection

I would love to give Logos more money for these resources but I find it silly I need to spend hundreds to get the one book I want. I know I’m not the typical seminary student user (at least that is what I think the typical user is) so this request may fall on dead ears but I hope Bob or someone from Faithlife sees this and tries to help out the little man. Thank you for listening

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Comments

PetahChristian

I've come across this issue with Mobile Ed. Sometimes a course uses a book which isn't sold individually (on Logos).

I've found that the individual books are still sold on Vyrso. I don't know if this is an oversight, but I've been able to get single books for courses there, instead of having to order the pre-pub bundle containing the book on Logos.

Into Grace

In my opinion, bundling is motivated by earnings. It's clearly not a publisher requirement (in most or all cases). Bundling is good for Logos but bad for customers. Christians are accountable to God with their finances. When customers throw money at a package for the benefit of a few usefull resources they are practicing bad stewardship.

Rustamania

Agree. Passed up several seminary class books in Logos because of this.

Robert Harner

Why the bundling in the first place?

One reason is it makes the books less expensive and a lot of us like that [:O]

Some of those collections are in one big collection: https://www.logos.com/product/120478/crossway-library-expansion-bundle
that is mucho more cheaper. I bought the DeYoung book sometime ago in a dead tree format which was quite inexpensive and a nice format for a reading book.

Mark Smith

Humble request to FL to stop with the unnecessary bundling of books and/or to break up bundles

I, too, find this off-putting. There may be times (in your example, Lewis might be in this category) where the publisher will not license a book for individual sale.

However, when there are no publisher issues I'd like FL to offer every book individually (even if they also offer a bundle).

Some time ago 'unbundling' was a big topic on the Forums and we were even getting "This bundle is now available for individual sale" notices here. I thought FL had turned the corner then and was going to 'unbundle' as much as possible. It appears that we've gone back to having to ask for unbundling.

I'd like to get some feedback from FL on this.

Kenute P. Curry

FAITHLIFE really needs to address this topic, and I mean address it!

Rick Ausdahl

...when there are no publisher issues I'd like FL to offer every book individually (even if they also offer a bundle).

Yes, please.

Kevin A. Purcell

I can imagine at least 2 reasons.

Publisher requires it
Faithlife thinks they are creating value.
FL needs cash and uses this as a way to push customers to buy more than they need.

#3 is what I would assume based on other actions that also point to this. The past year or more they hove become far more aggressive in cost cutting and revenue growing actions.

Doug Hanna

I am so SICK of this!!!!!!

Especially with the Crossway collections, this is soooooo frustrating.

I've spent thousands on Logos resources and used to recommend it to people like crazy. Making customers jump through all of these hoops and spend so much extra money is a HUGE damper on my love for a great product and definitely affects the way I speak about Logos.

For the sake of your product, please stop forcing us to buy these collections.

Whyndell Grizzard

I talked with my wallet- all they have to do is look at what I spend with them NOW- 1/10th what I use to- to expensive to do business with!

You really want to change them- don't buy- may take a while- but they'll come around.

Ronald Quick

As others have mentioned, it could be a publisher issue. However, if the resource is recommended or required for Mobile Ed courses, then I think the resource should be able to purchased individually.

scooter

As others have mentioned, it could be a publisher issue. However, if the resource is recommended or required for Mobile Ed courses, then I think the resource should be able to purchased individually.

The publishers should be strongly motivated to sell these ''companion'' volumes as a single-o. I believe the professors should be encouraged / told not to specify a book that only comes in a bundle.

Here is an opportunity to wear the customers' shoes. This should have been ironed out before the 1st Mobile Ed course was introduced.

Mark Barnes

In my opinion, bundling is motivated by earnings. It's clearly not a publisher requirement (in most or all cases). Bundling is good for Logos but bad for customers. Christians are accountable to God with their finances. When customers throw money at a package for the benefit of a few usefull resources they are practicing bad stewardship.

Bob has been open about this in the past.

As I understand it, bundling is not (always) a publisher requirement, but it is always an incentive to publishers. Bundling high value books (frontlist titles), with lower value books (backlist titles) means that the publisher can shift titles which otherwise few people would buy. That (at least in theory) means more money for the publishers, and keeps their less-well known authors happy too. Being able to promise that helps Faithlife persuade publishers to let them stock frontlist titles.

The other advantage of bundling is that it allows relatively obscure books to be produced, with otherwise wouldn't have a sufficiently large market. Because a portion of the bundle income can be assigned to the costs of transcribing these books, they can now be profitable. That's not much use if you don't intend to read the book, but if you're one of the minority who wants it, it's a good thing.

I think the general policy is that bundles should be unbundled after a year or so, although that doesn't always happen, particularly for bundles that don't sell well.

Perhaps it helps to think of bundling as the modern equivalent of publishing expensive hardbacks before the cheaper paperbacks — which is little more than a way of getting early purchasers to pay more whilst getting a little more.

At the moment, I see bundles it as a necessary evil. When the discount is good, I don't mind it at all. What really annoys me are large bundles with a very poor discount level. Those I never buy.

David Wanat

I think the general policy is that bundles should be unbundled after a year or so, although that doesn't always happen, particularly for bundles that don't sell well.

If the bundles don't sell well, maybe Faithlife should break them up and see if people only wanted that one book.

Dan Francis

https://www.logos.com/product/52352/fortress-studies-on-passages-in-the-gospels

Which will be pulled from prepub on march 20 if not under contract numbers by then. Is a great example of bundling. 3 quality books being offered at a deep discount (Compared to kindle prices). I likely would use all three but two of the volumes feel to me like must haves. Could we have the deep discount on the titles individually, would any of them made it to production unbundled? I will admit many times I have not got a book I want because it's in a big bundle.

-dan

Mattillo

Any thoughts on breaking up these below bundles? If not now, when? Thank you

What Does the Bible Really Teach about Homosexuality? by Kevin DeYoung which is found in https://www.logos.com/product/55583/crossway-christian-life-collection

The Second Coming: Signs of Christ’s Return and the End of the Age by John MacArthur found in https://www.logos.com/product/55576/crossway-theology-collection-2

Bibliotheca Sacra 2015 journal articles found in https://www.logos.com/product/54391/master-journal-bundle-21

Select Works of Sean & Josh McDowell: https://www.logos.com/product/50147/

Mattillo

Any thoughts on breaking up these below bundles? If not now, when? Thank you

What Does the Bible Really Teach about Homosexuality? by Kevin DeYoung which is found in https://www.logos.com/product/55583/crossway-christian-life-collection

The Second Coming: Signs of Christ’s Return and the End of the Age by John MacArthur found in https://www.logos.com/product/55576/crossway-theology-collection-2

Bibliotheca Sacra 2015 journal articles found in https://www.logos.com/product/54391/master-journal-bundle-21

Select Works of Sean & Josh McDowell: https://www.logos.com/product/50147/

Ben what about these?

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife)

Any thoughts on breaking up these below bundles? If not now, when? Thank you

What Does the Bible Really Teach about Homosexuality? by Kevin DeYoung which is found in https://www.logos.com/product/55583/crossway-christian-life-collection

The Second Coming: Signs of Christ’s Return and the End of the Age by John MacArthur found in https://www.logos.com/product/55576/crossway-theology-collection-2

Bibliotheca Sacra 2015 journal articles found in https://www.logos.com/product/54391/master-journal-bundle-21

Select Works of Sean & Josh McDowell: https://www.logos.com/product/50147/

Ben what about these?

Yes, definitely (sorry I missed this earlier).

Mattillo

Thank you Ben. Hopefully those can be at some point

Daniel Radke

Any thoughts on breaking up these below bundles? If not now, when? Thank you

What Does the Bible Really Teach about Homosexuality? by Kevin DeYoung which is found in https://www.logos.com/product/55583/crossway-christian-life-collection

The Second Coming: Signs of Christ’s Return and the End of the Age by John MacArthur found in https://www.logos.com/product/55576/crossway-theology-collection-2

Bibliotheca Sacra 2015 journal articles found in https://www.logos.com/product/54391/master-journal-bundle-21

Select Works of Sean & Josh McDowell: https://www.logos.com/product/50147/

Ben what about these?

Yes, definitely (sorry I missed this earlier).

How about unbundling all of the Crossway titles? I do not have a list of all the ones I have wanted to purchase over the last couple years for a seminary class, but did not because they were part of a large bundle. One recent example is Gregg Allison's Sojourners and Strangers: The Doctrine of the Church which is only a part of this larger bundle: https://www.logos.com/product/55576/crossway-theology-collection-2

Thank for your consideration, Faithlife!

Mattillo

Any thoughts on breaking up these below bundles? If not now, when? Thank you

What Does the Bible Really Teach about Homosexuality? by Kevin DeYoung which is found in https://www.logos.com/product/55583/crossway-christian-life-collection

The Second Coming: Signs of Christ’s Return and the End of the Age by John MacArthur found in https://www.logos.com/product/55576/crossway-theology-collection-2

Bibliotheca Sacra 2015 journal articles found in https://www.logos.com/product/54391/master-journal-bundle-21

Select Works of Sean & Josh McDowell: https://www.logos.com/product/50147/

Also still wondering on these

Ben Amundgaard (Faithlife)

Any thoughts on breaking up these below bundles? If not now, when? Thank you

What Does the Bible Really Teach about Homosexuality? by Kevin DeYoung which is found in https://www.logos.com/product/55583/crossway-christian-life-collection

The Second Coming: Signs of Christ’s Return and the End of the Age by John MacArthur found in https://www.logos.com/product/55576/crossway-theology-collection-2

Bibliotheca Sacra 2015 journal articles found in https://www.logos.com/product/54391/master-journal-bundle-21

Select Works of Sean & Josh McDowell: https://www.logos.com/product/50147/

Also still wondering on these

All the Crossway bundles will eventually be split up, it's just a matter of timing and prioritization at this point. I'm sorry I don't have anything more specific at this point.

Mattillo

Any thoughts on breaking up these below bundles? If not now, when? Thank you

What Does the Bible Really Teach about Homosexuality? by Kevin DeYoung which is found in https://www.logos.com/product/55583/crossway-christian-life-collection

The Second Coming: Signs of Christ’s Return and the End of the Age by John MacArthur found in https://www.logos.com/product/55576/crossway-theology-collection-2

Bibliotheca Sacra 2015 journal articles found in https://www.logos.com/product/54391/master-journal-bundle-21

Select Works of Sean & Josh McDowell: https://www.logos.com/product/50147/

Also still wondering on these

All the Crossway bundles will eventually be split up, it's just a matter of timing and prioritization at this point. I'm sorry I don't have anything more specific at this point.

Thank you Ben. I added a few more before this post on an apologetics collection and the Kostenberger collection so hopefully those are on your radar as well. You specifically mention Crossway in your post so does that mean any non-crossway won't be broken up?

Kiyah

All the Crossway bundles will eventually be split up, it's just a matter of timing and prioritization at this point. I'm sorry I don't have anything more specific at this point.

I'm glad to hear that the Crossway bundles will be split up, hopefully sooner rather than later.

Josh Hunt

I agree. It seems Logos in only hurting themselves. I'd gladly spend $20 for a book. I might buy one today and another tomorrow and another the next. But, there would never be a day I'd spend $100. Especially true if I am spending $100 to get a $20 book I want along with several books I don't want.

Jim R. Keener

I agree. I found out today that I do not have the tools "Concordance" and "Bible Browser". I have spent $4,300 for my library and can't use these two tools because I only have a "Starter" set. What a rip off. I had a Chat with a person and he offered me the tools package for $189.00 and if I bought it they would give me a $199.00 Mobile Course. I don't want the course I just want to be able to use the tools Logos offers.

I will not give them another cent. I'm going back to building my WordSearch library.

Keith Pang

It’s because you don’t own the ”new” features that have been developed. You can go for Logos Now subscription may be worth it for you

JT (alabama24)

I agree.

Your issue is unrelated (lack of features) to the post you replied to (bundling of books sold together).

I have spent $4,300 for my library and can't use these two tools

Two things: The software is free but continued development requires an influx of funds. To accomplish this, some new features require a purchase. You should still have access to OLD features and all of your resources, but if you want NEW features, you may have to pay for them.

As Keith suggested, you should consider a "Logos Now" subscription.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

I found out today that I do not have the tools "Concordance" and "Bible Browser". I have spent $4,300 for my library and can't use these two tools because I only have a "Starter" set.

Comparing Feature Sets => https://www.logos.com/compare/feature-sets?productIds=121388,121389,120029,120030,136012,124704,124703 shows Concordance Tool plus many more features need Full Feature Set, Now membership, or Cloud Subscription

Suspect Concordance was included in Full Feature Set with many other original language features. Bible Browser also includes selections for many datasets that are included in Full Feature Set: e.g. Propositional Outlines, Longacre Genre, Grammatical Constructions, Figurative Language, ...

Logos Essentials Upgrade (Medium) includes Full Feature Set plus some resources => https://www.logos.com/product/145467/logos-7-essential-upgrade (albeit Now membership is less expensive plus would have a discount toward new Logos 8 library purchase later this year).

Thankful for free Mobile Education courses => LT270: Study the Bible with Logos: Jonah 1:1–16 and => LT271: Study the Bible with Logos: Jonah 1 that include many tips about using Logos Bible Software.

I'm going back to building my WordSearch library.

Thankful for over 100,000 resources being available for use in Logos so wallet crying potential is more than WordSearch.

Thankful for my favorite feature of visual filter highlighting to "see" range of Greek verbal expression => Examples of visual filters being usable in free Basic packages (and above, including Starter).

Keep Smiling [:)]

Mattillo

Please add this to your list Ben

https://www.logos.com/product/148350/crossway-apologetics-collection

Jake

I'd like to see Logos basic/starter more focused on BIBLE study, not everything else. I'm a layperson, and don't need all the stuff that comes with the product. And I think there's a few features that are excluded from the basic version that I think EVERYONE who studies the Bible should have...so why are those features excluded? Like to create "sermons" for family Bible study, but it is looking like I have to spend $$$ to upgrade to get one feature.

I'm just a layperson, and I'm finding Logos overly complicated, which makes it not as powerful as just a Bible + document editor.

I'd put more focus into the application features, simplicity, performance, portability between all my different devices and operating systems.

I also don't want to get tied into an ecosystem, so anything I create needs to be exportable. If Logos decided not to exist, I don't want to lose my life's work that I've put into my study documentation.

I want something better than all the free stuff out there, but don't want to spend $$$ for the next level. There needs to be something in the middle. Let us add stuff later, if we want it.

DAL

I agree the sermon editor should be free even in the basic package. Accordance and WORDsearch, even e-sword has their own “sermon editor“ for free (they have different names each). It’s a basic tool for preachers and lay teachers. Just my opinion 👍😁👌

DAL

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

I want something better than all the free stuff out there, but don't want to spend $$$ for the next level. There needs to be something in the middle. Let us add stuff later, if we want it.

Thankful for Faithlife offering four levels (bundles) of Features:

Basic (Free)
Starter
Full
Now (All Features plus more) for $ 99.99 annual membership

This thread has mentioned three features in Full and Now (Bible Browser, Concordance, and Sermon Editor) with desire for them to be included in less expensive bundle(s).

I also don't want to get tied into an ecosystem, so anything I create needs to be exportable. If Logos decided not to exist, I don't want to lose my life's work that I've put into my study documentation.

Ecosystem lock in happens for published digital resources. STEP was not commercially viable => https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/STEP_Library

For Logos, keeping your stuff in docx files that can be compiled into Personal Books is viable. Logos wiki has => Personal Books

I'm just a layperson, and I'm finding Logos overly complicated, which makes it not as powerful as just a Bible + document editor.

Logos has powerful features for daily study over many hours. Concur about learning curve to use Logos effectively. As a lay person have been amazed what Logos can show me in the Bible (plus quickly find relevant articles in my library). Thankful for free Basic that includes Bibles with Reverse Interlinear tagging, Note documents, plus can create Personal Books.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Mattillo

Ben

Please add this to the list as well. I'd love to get praying the Bible without all the other stuff

https://www.logos.com/product/145484/crossway-christian-living-collection#008

Ken Shawver

Mark, agree with you...it has caused me to be very selective over the last 14 years of what I purchase.

GregW

I've been looking for Next: Pastoral Succession that works. It's not available on Faithlife eBooks, and is only available on Logos as part of this collection. This book is a widely-recommended book, and I know of several groups of church leaders who are working through it. Would it be possible to break it out and sell it separately from the collection, please? Alternatively, could it be added to Faithlife eBooks? I was seconds away from clicking the "buy" button on Amazon but thought I'd come here and ask first. It's in the top 800 ministry books on Amazon (in the UK at least) although I see it's also in the top 300 Mohammed books so I'm not sure how much credence we can give to those statistics!

Thank you.

JT (alabama24)

Alternatively, could it be added to Faithlife eBooks?

FL does not intend to sell two "editions" of the same book. Since this is already in Logos, your best bet is for it to be broken out of the bundle.

Borowz

Publisher requires it

Michael S.

Anyone know why Ben Witherington's commentary on Hebrews is not available as an individual purchase?

Mattillo

Add this to the break up list please

https://www.logos.com/product/148418/decalogue-collection

Michael S.

Anyone know why Ben Witherington's commentary on Hebrews is not available as an individual purchase?

I did find this-

https://www.logos.com/product/47459/letters-and-homilies-for-jewish-christians-a-socio-rhetorical-commentary-on-hebrews-james-and-jude

Barnabas

as of right now 12 days of Logos is not useful to me because it is not selling individual items heavily discounted, only bundles and ultra expensive single items.

Beloved Amodeo

Would you kindly break up this set? https://www.logos.com/product/49772/select-works-of-ralph-p-martin-on-the-new-testament I'm interested in the Philippians volume. Also, see https://community.logos.com/forums/p/187754/1084802.aspx#1084802 for error with the page in question.

Lee

A request to unbundle Linguistic Studies in Ancient West Semitic Update (7 vols.), specifically these two titles:

Advances in Biblical Hebrew Linguistics: Data, Methods, and Analyses (Moshavi & Notarius eds.)

The Relative Clause in Biblical Hebrew (Holmstedt)

stephenagath

Bundling refers to the practice of combining multiple products or services together into a single package and offering them at a discounted price. The idea behind bundling is that by offering multiple products together, companies can increase the perceived value of the package and make it more attractive to potential customers. In the case of Logos/Faithlife, they offer a variety of products and services for the Christian market, such as Bible study software, digital resources, and online courses. By bundling these products together, they can offer customers a comprehensive package of tools and resources for studying and practicing their faith, while also providing a discount for purchasing multiple items at once.

DMB

By bundling these products together, they can offer customers a comprehensive package of tools and resources for studying and practicing their faith, while also providing a discount for purchasing multiple items at once.

Stephen, welcome to the forums.

And you're exactly right ... though quite often a publisher uses bundling as a test-balloon for determining interest.

However, Faithlife welcomes this thread for identifying bundles that would benefit from resources also being sold individually. A win-win for everyone.

For sure, if you see a good example, be sure and suggest it for consideration.