The best software for biblestudy ?
Comments
-
Indeed this is a slow day. If my "bible software" requires me to spend lots of money for a "library" that is accessed by a "free"program, requires special training to start to use it, then requires another paid 2 day seminar to master it than I don't have a bible software program. What I have is a flashy database that can be used as a platform for several types of e-books for cross platform computing. Which maybe replaced someday by a simple e-book reader from several other players in the field like Sony or Kindle. My point, in the great debate over words, is that L4 has bible based functions but is not properly a "bibles software" because it has such a wide range of activities it can do unlike Quickverse or PC-Study Bible..which are cheaper and easier to use. Didn't think this was such a big deal really.
0 -
Paul Golder said:Matthew C Jones said:
Number one in sales? Popularity? Ease of use? Number of resources? Search capabilities? Bang-for-the-buck? Size of user base?
While trying to be objective, I would say:
Number one in sales? - I would think Logos
Popularity? - Download numbers seem to show e-S****
Ease of use? - Subjective, but WOR******* seems to be concentrated on this
Number of resources? - Definitely Logos
Search capabilities? - Logos again
Bang-for-the-buck? - An argument could be obviously made for freeware, but as far a purchasing goes, Logos boxed products would be the winner.
Size of user base? - Again I think e-S****
I use/have used all of these, and I think Paul is right on target. It stands to reason that the free product will have the largest user base because, well because it's free.
The other point I would make about WOR****** is that the company's focus is, by their own sales folks' admission, more on providing a tool for the preacher/teacher than providing tools for the scholar. From what I've seen, Logos does both very well. I have no standing whatsoever as a Bible scholar, but I do know a couple, and they hold Logos in high esteem.
As do most of the Bible Scholars here on the forum!
I think I've said this before, but I'll repeat myself - Logos is great for finding answers to the questions I have, and it also seems to be great at providing other people with answers to questions that I can't even comprehend, let alone think of asking.
Blessings,
Jim D.
0 -
Jim Dunne said:
It stands to reason that the free product will have the largest user base because, well because it's free.
Downloads, installs and active user base are three different animals. I have downloaded most of the free stuff out there. I have kept only 2 of them installed. I only use one of them when I want the Bible in Japanese. I have Logos fired up all day, every day.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
ReneAtchley said:
If my "bible software" requires me to spend lots of money for a "library"
The smallest Logos 4 base packages come with enough Bible study material to match any of the "competitors" and more powerful search features than all of them combined.
ReneAtchley said:then requires another paid 2 day seminar to master it
I just finished Camp Logos and must say, although I learned an immense amount from Morris Proctor, I certainly am nowhere near "mastering" the powerful capabilities of Logos 4. I am not even sure that Bob Pritchett and the Logos program designers are fully aware of how many different ways the Logos 4 program can be used. The built-in features have many planned capabilities but scholars will be applying them in ways nobody originally thought of.
ReneAtchley said:L4 has bible based functions but is not properly a "bibles software" because it has such a wide range of activities it
My wife has flowers outside that can be watered by rain, by a bucket, by a hose, by an automated sprinkler system or my kid's water pistol. We can study the Bible with many different tools but our time and effort will definitely be affected by what tools we use. When Logos searches every indexed word of every book you have in your library and returns results in seconds, you have a huge team of study buddies helping you dig deeper into God's Word. Granted, there are many theological, apologetical, historical and almost "heretical"? works we can research. We choose our resources and go from there.
I am interested in what you would define as "Bible software."
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
ReneAtchley, I asked if you would help me understand your position by giving your definition of a Bible Software Program, I am not sure if your last post was an attempt to do that or not, but you did not define Bible Software Program, and so I am still not understanding what you mean.It looks like you are mixing up the idea of what a Bible Software Program does, with the fact that you don't like how the Logos Bible Software Program performs, but I am not sure what you are saying since I still have only heard you imply that Logos is not a bible software program, but you are not giving me any meaning for what does a bible software program do.
Are you saying that the Quickverse or PC-Study Bible programs are bible study programs and that they are because they do less?
Please take the time to explain what you really are meaning. I have never seen this line of thought and would like to understand it.
In Christ,
Jim
0 -
JimVanSchoonhoven said:
Please take the time to explain what you really are meaning. I have never seen this line of thought and would like to understand it.
I share Jim's curiosity and think your answer could prove helpful to me in introducing others to Bible software. It sounds to me as if you are equating e-books to Bible software. Coming from an IT background, I tend to think too technically and would never make this equation. However, I can see how a consumer could do so. But, as you note, this certainly is not what Logos tries to be.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
ReneAtchley said:
My point, in the great debate over words, is that L4 has bible based functions but is not properly a "bibles software" because it has such a wide range of activities it can do unlike Quickverse or PC-Study Bible..which are cheaper and easier to use. Didn't think this was such a big deal really.
Ah so you define bible software as cheap and easy. [:D]
I think I understand you to be saying that bible software is a somewhat derogatory term that shouldn't be applied to Logos. Right?
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
0 -
MJ. Smith said:
What's wrong with my math? I was correcting the other person's estimate of 500,000 and saying it is actually more than that, closer to a quarter of a million (= 750,000). Bob said it was over 700,000 already by November, and someone at the Camp Logos seminar said somewhere around a quarter of a million, so I'm standing by my claim that it's closer to a quarter of a million than 500,000.
Am I being dumb or are you not communicating clearly?
0 -
Rosie Perera said:
a quarter of a million (= 750,000).
a quarter of a million = 250,000
you should have said three quarters of a million. I assume it was a misfired neuron. [li]
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
0 -
Rosie Perera said:
closer to a quarter of a million (= 750,000).
this side of the border, 750,000 is THREE quarters of 1, 000,000[:)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Todd Phillips said:
I assume it was a misfired neuron.
or one of those Brits vs. German things. [:)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Rene, I do "get" what you are saying it and I see it as another way to view Logos software or a different slant on it. But I did have to ponder your statement last evening for awhile in order to.... [I]ReneAtchley said:Indeed this is a slow day. If my "bible software" requires me to spend lots of money for a "library" that is accessed by a "free"program, requires special training to start to use it, then requires another paid 2 day seminar to master it than I don't have a bible software program. What I have is a flashy database that can be used as a platform for several types of e-books for cross platform computing. Which maybe replaced someday by a simple e-book reader from several other players in the field like Sony or Kindle. My point, in the great debate over words, is that L4 has bible based functions but is not properly a "bibles software" because it has such a wide range of activities it can do unlike Quickverse or PC-Study Bible..which are cheaper and easier to use. Didn't think this was such a big deal really.
0 -
MJ. Smith said:Rosie Perera said:
closer to a quarter of a million (= 750,000).
this side of the border, 750,000 is THREE quarters of 1, 000,000
Yeah, that's what I meant. A quarter of a million shy of one million. [:P]
0 -
Joan Korte said:
I do "get" what you are saying it and I see it as another way to view Logos software or a different slant on it. But I did have to ponder your statement last evening for awhile in order to....
I don't "get" it unless I go way back to the 1980's definition of Bible software like: Godspeed or BibleMaster on 5.25" floppies. [H]
But that does explain the subtitle of the new ad campaign:
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
Thank you for your kind response Joan.
0 -
You are welcome, Rene. In fact, most of what you write causes me to reflect and stretches my thoughts-a good thing. [:)]
0 -
Are we being intentionally obscure here or am I missing something (totally possible). Joan, you say you "got it," but you didn't say what you "got." Can you help us understand what Rene was saying about the software please? I've been pondering it for quite a while now and I'm still not understanding. [*-)]
0 -
Well are you two going to let us in on your definition for a Bible software program so we can get it too?
Joan, what is it that you get, why would Logos not be a bible software program, but some of the other programs mentioned are?
What does Logos do that they don't try to do too! I admit none of them are as good as Logos, but they are trying to do the same thing.
I must admit this is of special concern to me since I spend time teaching believers how to use bible software programs, in fact all of the ones that have been mentioned that are windows based.
What features does Logos have that are not geared towards helping us study the bible?
In Christ,
Jim
0 -
Jim, Michael,
I have to be obscure here because I am not Rene and cannot elaborate on her words; what she said made me think beyond my box. My simple thought was I have free Bible software that I have over 30 Bible versions in it and very few dictionaries, commentaries and other books in contrast to what I have in Logos. Please, gentlemen, I am not trying to inflame ideas or words, but that was my honest thought and I did not conclude it with a value judgment. Hope this helps.
0 -
Joan Korte said:
I have to be obscure here because I am not Rene and cannot elaborate on her words; what she said made me think beyond my box. My simple thought was
Makes me wonder how you "get" it if it is so obscure you can't talk about it. It sounds like Bible study in the minimalist approach. You could just jettison the computer altogether and get back to using a pen, notebook and the Bible.
If this is a question addressing the many divergent resources available one has to ask if critics are really this discriminating in the way they live out every aspect of their personal lives. We don't actually NEED computers at all to study the Bible. We don't need forums, social websites, TV, shopping malls, or flower gardens. But God allows us much liberty in enjoying life in this world. Some people drive Cadillacs, some drive Geo Metros. Some read the Bible online (for free) and some spend lots of money to enjoy more productive study sessions.
I'm happy the Bible is available in so many forms to so many people. Just don't criticize Logos for going the second, third & fourth mile beyond the others. I really have to shrink my mind to grasp how it is not a Bible software program while the little companies Rene mentions do meet her definitions. It reminds me of Aesop's fable of the Fox & the Grapes. (The fox saying, "Since I can never have everything in the Logos library, it must not actually be a Bible study software program."
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
To put it another way. Logos can be seen as a e-book multi-platform database that encompasses bible "libraries". It is much more and much less than stand alone bible programs such as Quickverse and PC-Study Bible. It complexities and expense and multiple platform performance comes from the "librarian" nature of its core free program. It could just as easily use other "libraries" such as classic books with a few twinks here and there ( I would argue). It is starting to compete with other products like Kindle (which it may or may not survive) across these platforms...expect an ipad compatible extension of this program I would think. Good, bad, or indifferent in my mind L4 is not a bible program its much more.
0 -
ReneAtchley said:
Good, bad, or indifferent in my mind L4 is not a bible program its much more.
Thanks - I understand what you mean now. And it will help me to have the additional perspective on what "Bible software" as a term means to people.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
ReneAtchley said:
To put it another way. Logos can
be seen as a e-book multi-platform database that encompasses bible
"libraries". It is much more and much less than stand alone bible
programs such as Quickverse and PC-Study Bible. It complexities and
expense and multiple platform performance comes from the "librarian"
nature of its core free program. It could just as easily use other
"libraries" such as classic books with a few twinks here and there ( I
would argue). It is starting to compete with other products like
Kindle (which it may or may not survive) across these
platforms...expect an ipad compatible extension of this program I would
think. Good, bad, or indifferent in my mind L4 is not a bible program
its much more.Rene,
Your definition (which I'm still not totally clear on) is different from most everyone else's, including Logos (See product name: Logos Bible Software).
People use Logos to study the bible. Having one's own definition
makes for these semantic arguments, especially when the generally accepted definition is dismissed with a "..really...[:^)]" and no other explanation (which you've since rectified). Microsoft Word is still a word processor even though it can be used for so much more than processing words (scripting, mailing lists, graphics, etc). Right?You're right that Logos is a Library System (hence the previous name). But it's also Bible software (it's specifically designed for Bible study).
Can't it be both?
Too bad the online forum format encourages brief interaction. I'm sure this would have been an easier discussion if we were all in the same room.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
0 -
ReneAtchley said:
To put it another way.
NOW I understand you. Thank you for persisting in your dialogue.
Yes, Logos is not only a Bible software program. I don't think it was ever intended to be only that. It meets needs that most users will never have. Scholars do things with it that I don't even understand. The linguists, theologians, professors and preachers all have tools to work with that I may never delve into. My family benefits from the educational material and graphics. Many times we find ourselves looking at a resource we didn't thinkl we would need or be interested in. Then there is the study for the sheer joy of it. I am personally interested in archeology but don't really need that diversion. It is nice to have those resources in Logos (The Ultimate Archeology Collection http://www.logos.com/products/details/3267 is on my short wishlist. I'll get it whenever they quit rolling out super Pre-Pubs.)
Yes Rene, Logos is not just a Bible software program. That is why it is my favorite software program of all types.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
ReneAtchley said:
To put it another way. Logos can be seen as a e-book multi-platform database that encompasses bible "libraries". It is much more and much less than stand alone bible programs such as Quickverse and PC-Study Bible. It complexities and expense and multiple platform performance comes from the "librarian" nature of its core free program. It could just as easily use other "libraries" such as classic books with a few twinks here and there ( I would argue). It is starting to compete with other products like Kindle (which it may or may not survive) across these platforms...expect an ipad compatible extension of this program I would think. Good, bad, or indifferent in my mind L4 is not a bible program its much more.
I probably should just let this die...with this thread, but I believe that sometimes what is written isn't clear...may not even be what the writer intended to say. Above I find another example of confession...how is Logos much less that the others...particularly QV (which I also own and only open to use a few resources as an e-reader? Admittedly, we all need to exhibit much grace toward one another; however, let's us strive for clarity in our posts as well.
0 -
Logos has historically defined itself clearly as a Christian Library program or at least functions that way. A love fest about all the new bells and whistles of the L4 interface perhaps has obscured the basic nature of the core librarian program. However, the significance of this database architecture of L4 didn't really strike me until I started to see how transferable on various platforms it is or has become. The subtleness of this kind of library management function maybe missed unless one considers what can happen when a) Logos branches out into other "libraries" and/or b) there is direct competition from other e-book readers. How much is one Christian's Library worth if its not a core business of Logos? I would consider L4 less than QV in terms of ease of use and applications...i.e. Bibleworks.
0 -
ReneAtchley said:
Logos has historically defined itself clearly as a Christian Library program or at least functions that way.
Maybe you don't know the history of the company. It was started by two Micros@ft programmers. The product they came up with is essentially a search engine. They chose to apply this to Bible study. That is the difference between the creators of G@@gle or Alt@ Vista and the founders of Logos. The Logos focus has always been on Bible study.
ReneAtchley said:a) Logos branches out into other "libraries" and/or
Yes, Logos has an amazing library search engine at it's core. That is why it runs circles around the others. But to curse it because it does is silly. It is like refusing to drive to church because an automobile could also be driven to a bar.
ReneAtchley said:b) there is direct competition from other e-book readers.
It is kind of hard to compete with FREE. The Logos iPhone app is free. No other company gives you Reverse Interlinears for free Logos is making much of our resources freely available on mobile apps so we don't have to pay for them twice.
ReneAtchley said:How much is one Christian's Library worth if its not a core business of Logos?
Not every Bible software program is published by a Christian company. QV has changed hands so many times, I can't keep up. On occasion, it's parent companies have marketed secular (or worse) software. The only thing I know QV can do that Logos doesn't is add PDF into the library. BobP did ask us in a survey once if this was important to us. I guess the others told him "not much."
ReneAtchley said:I would consider L4 less than QV in terms of ease of use and applications...
BibleGateway is easier to use than QV and Logos has 10x the applications of QV. How many Rabbis, Seminary Professors, Archeologists, Historians, and Translators use QV for their work? Any specialized tool takes time to learn how to use. Not just anybody can operate a screw machine or transfer. That is why machinists make a good wage. But Logos can be used for the simplest Bible study as well as the deep, intensive studies. The more effort you apply to it, the more you get rewarded.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
Others may disagree with me but Rene made an off-hand statement that several of us did not understand. We asked for clarification. We received clarification. If I were Rene, I would feel put-upon if that answer turned into an argument. I should, of course, let Rene speak for herself.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
BobbyTerhune said:
At the current time Logos has about 500,000 users,
I had no idea the user base was so large. Very impressive. Do you think that is mostly in the US?
Have a great day,
jmac0 -
Todd Phillips said:
I assume it was a misfired neuron.
Wait until you get to my age. Then the neurons go into mass rebellion.
Have a great day,
jmac0
