Thinking about PBB content and Stand-alone or Cloud-Sync ...

I hope this thread can keep a useful focus, but I was thinking ...

For Notes, Prayer Lists, Highlighting etc, the content is very small. Each is a few KB I guess. And they are stored in local database files and synced to the cloud at Logos (Amazon) etc.

For PBBs, I'm guessing some people won't have a few 10's of them, but maybe hundreds, and each could be 100 KB, or a meg or two, if its a significant PD work someone has scanned or converted from PDF etc.

If they all sync to the cloud too, what will it do for sync times, delays, bandwidth charges ???

Will I not be able to sync a new 3 KB Note from my iPhone until after the 17 MBs of new PBBs I did at home last night finishes sycning?

Will I be able to keep my 500 PBBs on my PC at home, but only sync a small selection to my iPhone/iPad? Maybe my data plan won't support moving multiple 10's of megs in sync traffic per month?

I live in New Zealand. Broadband charges are very high, but GSM data plans cost the moon. Moving more than a few megs per month becomes a problem.

For me, the solution is to be able to be selective for user content. A tick-box in the corner, to "Sync to Cloud" or not, for a given item.

I guess I'm asking Logos to consider users and Countries that don't have as fast and affordable data traffic plans as the US.

I wish the focus here to be about sync-delays and data traffic charges. Copyright and privacy issues are another story, but maybe the same tick-box can address both matters.

I do look forward to whatever additional capability the PBB features will bring to the party. I raise this now, so maybe its not too late to consider this aspect before the PBB designs and scoping is completed.

(I don't currently have an iPhone, iPad, Netbook, Slate PC yet, but for me, data charges will be a critical aspect to it being practical or not.)

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DominicM

Jim,

we are waiting for Logos to release the specs,

I wouldn't count on your PBB being able to be on the iphone/ipad, but it would be nice..

I will be wanting my PBB local only.. dont want them synced unless I choose to share them

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/123255#Comment_123255

I am very interested in how PBBs work in L4. I Have 122 of them waiting to see L4 in native format!

While others have very correctly stated some of the technical challenges, I for one hope Logos finds a way that they can truly be native in all ways, including syncing. One thing I really like about the cloud is that I can install Logos on a new machine and I don't have to do much of anything to have everything there - settings, resources, etc.! That is VERY nice. I realize that may not be practical, but I can hope...

Kevin Becker

Logos has indicated they will have the PBBs be in the native book format. I've read other's assert that the PBBs will be managed through some "marketplace" which means we will download them from Logos like purchases (I haven't read this from a Logos employee but from people I would trust have been told this by Logos). So I would assume that the books would come down in a one-time download and then only the notes etc attached to the book will do any syncing.

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/123305#Comment_123305

One thing I really like about the cloud is that I can install Logos on a new machine and I don't have to do much of anything to have everything there

Dominick,

Yes - I can see the great apeal of that. I too tend to like things that "just works". Saying that, I also like where I can turn stuff off, or be selective. I was the kid that took stuff apart and wanted to re-make it just a little different to how it had been made or designed.

Assuming PBB-created items are in the cloud, and not just local, my focus here is on transfer delays, and data-charges for wireless devices.

If I can sync at home over wi-fi or USB etc, with my home PC, I see that working OK. If its over-the-air on a GSM data plan, I see big problems for Countrys where there is no service, or its unaffordable to some customers.

Taking Bob's comments about the future, (he said something like "... everything stored in the Cloud ...") at face value, I would expect PBB-created content will not be stand-alone, but cloud/sync related. Even if "Cloud" is not in the first release of it into Logos4.

I look forward to what it will do, and how we can use it. I hope its form is one I can afford.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/123310#Comment_123310

I've read other's assert that the PBBs will be managed through some "marketplace" which means we will download them from Logos like purchases

If there will be a Logos distribution centre from where will they source the PBB's? And will they convert them once sourced? Thereafter I should be able to go to a PBB Product page and choose my downloads. But what if my current ones are not there? I guess I would be dependent on the creators re-doing their contributions and "uploading" (sync'ing!?) them to Logos because I only have a read licence.

Another scenario is that Logos will provide a download tool and a conversion tool for use on public distribution servers like Still Truth. PBB creators can continue to upload to such servers as well as sync to Logos.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/123367#Comment_123367

I guess I would be dependent on the creators re-doing their contributions and "uploading" (sync'ing!?) them to Logos because I only have a read licence.

I hope that the creators retain control rather than having a mass conversion. There are items I would handle differently if the new PBB behaves as expected.

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124029#Comment_124029

If I created some PBB course content for a class, I might well want to keep copyright in that work, and only issue copies to enrolled and paid-up students.

I hope the system will allow for that kind of option.

I would hate if ALL PBB-created content went into a totaly public free-for-all. But I have seen nothing official that suggests Logos intends to do it that way.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124035#Comment_124035

I would hate if ALL PBB-created content went into a totaly public free-for-all.

You would have control of PBB's you create, especially if you got a non-distributable (private) licence.

Whyndell Grizzard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124086#Comment_124086

If PBB's are actually made public I'll cancel my subscription and not place or update them to L4.

Reason: I have e-books that I have a copyright to have a personal copy of that cannot be shared.

I have them in L3 and do not have this issue- and since my license is for "personal use" I can't see Logos making my personal doc's public.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124128#Comment_124128

If PBB's are actually made public I'll cancel my subscription and not place or update them to L4.

I'm certain that PBB's will not automatically be made public and available. For one thing, that would make no sense while one was developing them. Bob P. has spoken of parameters on shared documents - limited sharing, sharing with or without update capability etc.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/123255#Comment_123255

I wouldn't count on your PBB being able to be on the iphone/ipad, but it would be nice..

If they are in native Logos format I see no reason that they wouldn't be.

I will be wanting my PBB local only.. dont want them synced unless I choose to share them

Syncing and shared are independent attributes. As Logos provides for our backup and recovery I would expect them to be synced. I would not expect them to be shared. I.E. I would expect them to behave like any other user generated resource.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124086#Comment_124086

You would have control of PBB's you create, especially if you got a non-distributable (private) licence.

Do you know something I don't? Of course, you do - lot's of stuff. [:D] However, limiting it to the Logos 4 PBB implementation are you assuming that one purchases a license? I was assuming it would be folded into the main product like other functions that were L3 add-ins.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124278#Comment_124278

However, limiting it to the Logos 4 PBB implementation are you assuming that one purchases a license? I was assuming it would be folded into the main product like other functions that were L3 add-ins.

I was talking about a licence to create PBB's (L3 model). I assume that a read-only licence would be available also as per L3.

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124332#Comment_124332

Actually we don't know anything about the PBB in Logos 4, except the fact that the result resource should be a native Logos 4 format. All the rest is just a speculation. I am anxious to hear from Logos concerning that. May be just a bit of information so that we can plan our PBBs better.

Bob Pritchett

PBB for Logos 4 isn't coded yet... so things are still flexible.

The basic idea is:

A) No more second-class citizens. PBB will use the same internal file format as books we distribute, so highlighting and other features "just work."

Compiling will probably be done on the server. (Because we're making PBB books first-class citizens, they need to go through the primary metadata and license databases, so we can sync them to your multiple devices, let your read your PBB's on your iPhone, etc.)

C) Your content defaults to private, just like your notes and other information.

D) You'll have the option to share your books with "groups" of other people. (And your notes, highlights, etc.) You'll have per-file control of exactly what you share and who you share it with.

E) We're considering a PBB store, like the App Stores for mobile phones, where you could choose to sell PBB's for which you owned the copyright, with Logos handling the credit card transactions, downloading, etc.

This is just "the state of the thinking"....

-- Bob

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124397#Comment_124397

This is just "the state of the thinking"....

Thanks Bob,

As per my first post at the top here, my hope was to keep it focused, which it was in danger of losing as the posts continued. Many guesses as we continued to interact with no guide.

I like the ideas above, but I expect some would welcome an option to only keep it in their own PC, if it was only ever for personal use. Clearly, if it was going to get sent out, a full server-grade processing makes sense, and its going "somewhat" public anyway, so privacy issues fall away in that case I think.

I really love that a PBB will be a 1st class resource. I think in those ways, maybe Notes need not be as powerfull and rich as some are seeking. Others may differ on that.

Mostly, I want to thank you for considering our comments and letting us better understand how you see the product-family position and hints at the future.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124397#Comment_124397

Thanks Bob. You're on Logos Speaks again!

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124397#Comment_124397

PBB for Logos 4 isn't coded yet... so things are still flexible.

The basic idea is:

A) No more second-class citizens. PBB will use the same internal file format as books we distribute, so highlighting and other features "just work."

Compiling will probably be done on the server. (Because we're making PBB books first-class citizens, they need to go through the primary metadata and license databases, so we can sync them to your multiple devices, let your read your PBB's on your iPhone, etc.)

C) Your content defaults to private, just like your notes and other information.

D) You'll have the option to share your books with "groups" of other people. (And your notes, highlights, etc.) You'll have per-file control of exactly what you share and who you share it with.

E) We're considering a PBB store, like the App Stores for mobile phones, where you could choose to sell PBB's for which you owned the copyright, with Logos handling the credit card transactions, downloading, etc.

This is just "the state of the thinking"....

-- Bob

Thank you Bob so much for all the information. You provided much more I dared to expect :-). I like very much your approach to the matter. I can't wait for it. However with all the hints you gave us I am starting to doubt whether you will be able to release it by the end of June (as we understood the promise). Never mind. The quality of the result is what matters the most. Thanks again for that.

Whyndell Grizzard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124420#Comment_124420

Thanks Bob- this relieves some concerns for my copyrighted PBB's.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124397#Comment_124397

his is just "the state of the thinking"....

I like the way you think! [Y]

Dudley Rose

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124397#Comment_124397

This is just "the state of the thinking"....

-- Bob

Bob, this all sounds wonderful. I gather you are still working out the business model as it pertains to compiling books. Any insight you could provide here would be interesting and welcome. Also, In Logos 3 I had some very good luck turning websites (with permission) into PBs that made them nicely integrated into Logos. Clearly, you are planning for even better integration, which is great news. Ii would great if the flexibility to do projects such as the one I just described were part of the new version.

Dudley

Joe K

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124397#Comment_124397

PBB for Logos 4 isn't coded yet... so things are still flexible.

Hello Bob.

Good info and thanks for sharing it. A few years ago my hard disk crashed and i lost many things, including some sources for PB's. I have most of the HTML source files, but i have found that i am missing some. I am wondering if you would consider using the L3 created PB as input to your compiler process?

Also, can we assume if our source files worked correctly in L3 that they will work in L4 as is?

God bless!

Joe K

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124946#Comment_124946

Bob,

One more thing i just thought of, that i asked for in L3, and would like to see in L4... to be able to turn a note file into a PBB.

Thanks again!

Joe K

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124427#Comment_124427

wow...that sounds like PBB's are going to be a great value! Like PBB's on steroids!

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124397#Comment_124397

A) No more second-class citizens. PBB will use the same internal file format as books we distribute, so highlighting and other features "just work."

Bob,
Thank you for the details. It is what you don't say that piques my curiosity.
For the record: Will PBBs be FREE in Logos 4 or will an annual license be required to access them?

You have never said PBBs would be free in Logos 4 but every poster in this thread is assuming that will be the case. If their assumption is correct, how can Logos donate all the time to rework the PBBs without hope of financial recouperation? You know many of the 900+ PBBs out there are rough around the edges. Others are titles you have already produced in Logos 4 format (Calvin.) It would be impossible to get Barnes' Notes out of Pre-Pub if you are going to make it freely available as a full featured "first class citizen."

I don't want to throw cold water on all the excitement but economic reality says it's an unsustainable business model. If Logos will function as a license clearing house, there will be ongoing costs.

I just wanted to hear an official statement of what our expectations should be.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124984#Comment_124984

You have never said PBBs would be free in Logos 4 but every poster in this thread is assuming that will be the case. If their assumption is correct, how can Logos donate all the time to rework the PBBs without hope of financial recouperation?

As a poster, I need to say you don't quite represent correctly my understanding. I expect that the PBB compiler will be free. I do not expect (or want) Logos to convert the PBB's I created into the new format. I want the control for my own creations.

Joe K

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124984#Comment_124984

I don't want to throw cold water on all the excitement but economic reality says it's an unsustainable business model. If Logos will function as a license clearing house, there will be ongoing costs.

Maybe Logos should have a flat charge per PBB in order to download. Just don't charge the creator [;)]

Joe K

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124998#Comment_124998

I expect that the PBB compiler will be free. I do not expect (or want) Logos to convert the PBB's I created into the new format.

I think Bob made it very clear the compiling would be done by Logos, on Logos servers, distributed from Logos servers and synched back to Logos servers.

The PBB store will not be FREE. At least that is what I maintain is to be reasonably expected. I am just trying to temper the excitement with a dose of reality.

Dudley Rose

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124984#Comment_124984

every poster in this thread is assuming that

Actually, my question about the business model was exactly to the point that I didn't t expect compiling even our own books to be free. I'd love that, though.

Dudley

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125030#Comment_125030

Maybe Logos should have a flat charge per PBB in order to download. Just don't charge the creator

At the reasonable $.99 per download, I would have to spend $990+ to move my PBB collection into Logos 4.

And you can count on any public domain stuff NOT being offered if a Logos alternative has been produced. Why should Logos drop Calvin's Commentaries (46 vols.) http://www.logos.com/products/details/5161 for $399 and allow the download of PBB for a dollar each?

I have a great suggestion for everyone who hates synching with the cloud, misses their notes and PBB library: Just keep using Logos Version 3!

I have got the best of both worlds. (Logos 3 & 4)

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125044#Comment_125044

I have a great suggestion for everyone who hates synching with the cloud, misses their notes and PBB library: Just keep using Logos Version 3!

Well, as I started this Thread, I "own" this little part of the Internet, so its my turn. [:)]

I like that Bob popped up and shared some ideas. He also said its not yet all locked down, so they are still working out the details. As for a possible PD store, it seemed to me that it was something he would like to do, if only he could solve the many issues with it. And of course, I'm guessing there.

As for any pricing or license model, for now, I'm happy to wait and see what happens next.

As for anyone hating online sync, I've seen little or none of that from anyone. Maybe some don't want it, or the option to turn it off. Not so sure anyone hates it.

[ The issues with "selling" PBB-created content is many. Maybe the biggest relates to Copyright, and if Logos "sells" them, maybe they then become the Publisher, and some of those Copyright issues land on them if one of us gets it wrong. E.G. We use NIV or ESV or whatever in our document, but have not obtained Commercial rights to do so, for a work that is to be sold (even if only for 99 cents). ]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125033#Comment_125033

I think Bob made it very clear the compiling would be done by Logos, on Logos servers, distributed from Logos servers and synched back to Logos servers.

The PBB store will not be FREE. At least that is what I maintain is to be reasonably expected. I am just trying to temper the excitement with a dose of reality.

We read Bob's post quite differently. To me, that fact that the compilation occurs on Logos servers says nothing about who initiates that compilation and when. I hope (and expect) that is at the creators whim.

The fact that Logos is considering allowing creators to market their PBB's rather than free distribution says nothing about what the creators of the PBB's will choose to do. To charge or not to charge that is the question - the question for the creator. Note what Bob says in his point D - there will be an option to share.

I suspect that the thinking behind a possible PBB store is that in the new environment, one can do much more to the text to improve its usefulness in Logos. Some people need to be compensated for their time to justify the effort.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125044#Comment_125044

And you can count on any public domain stuff NOT being offered if a Logos alternative has been produced.

Hasn't this always been true - one is motivated to create a PBB only if you don't have it and can't get it. What is or is not available in PBB's depends specifically on what people like myself chose to do. What we chose to do is dependent upon what Logos has already done, what our personal interests are, the ease of using the new product, our perception of the reception of the material, and the time we wish to expend on the effort.

DominicM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125062#Comment_125062

I have a few concerns, but until Bob draws the line in the sand, its all speculation...

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125056#Comment_125056

Maybe the biggest relates to Copyright, and if Logos "sells" them, maybe they then become the Publisher, and some of those Copyright issues land on them if one of us gets it wrong

I'm not a lawyer but I suspect that the PBB creator would be liable. One reason that I don't want Logos to convert any of my files automatically, there are some that I need to reconsider the copyright status of - I had permission to convert to Logos but not to charge anything. Others I could use under certain academic exclusions which I need to be certain I still fall within.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125056#Comment_125056

Well, as I started this Thread, I "own" this little part of the Internet,

Just because you started a thread doesn't give you control over who posts, or a corner on what the truth is. My posts are related to PBBs synching with the cloud, etc...

I do need to correct my statement "All posters" to read "some posters." Upon carefully reading the whole thread again, I find at least four people who expect to pay something to have PBB access in Version 4. If Bob can deliver PBBs to Logos 4, even for a modest per-title fee, I will be happy. If he can then make them available on iPad I will be even happier.

Many times I have posted unpopular things that were borne out as completely factual:
1) When everyone was trashing a certain Logos employee named "Dan", I suggested they might ought to be more respectful
2) When people kept promoting off-site links to purchase from third parties, I said it was bad manners. (Logos agreed)
3) I warned if people didn't practice better self-government in posting, we would end up with forum rules (we did)
4) I warned if we didn't follow forum rules we would get a moderator (we did, although s/he is working undercover [H] )

I think it is unreasonable to expect Logos Version 4 to be everything Version 3 was and fully functional on mobile devices without heavily taxing the resources of the company. But I am a relic of the past: I quit programming about the time you started. So aside from living the history you read about, I really don't have much to offer.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125083#Comment_125083

I think it is unreasonable to expect Logos Version 4 to be everything Version 3 was and fully functional on mobile devices without heavily taxing the resources of the company. But I am a relic of the past:

I, too, am a relic of the past in terms of computers. My reasoning for assuming that the PBB function would be integrated was Bob P.'s statements that they are moving away from the add-in concept. If the PBB generation is strictly on their servers, they could charge a fee and remain true to their basic design principles. They could also limit it to specific base levels, an approach that they have used with other features. We'll have to wait and see - then you can update your win/loss statistics.[:)]

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125083#Comment_125083

Just because you started a thread doesn't give you control over who posts, or a corner on what the truth is.

Matthew, You will see I wrote "own" in quotes, and a smile on the end of the line. I was not claiming to control who could speak. I was only claiming it was my turn to speak next. Not at all like you suggest in the line above.

Unless you programmed with paper tape or punchcards, your suggestion on when I began programming make be off by some years, but its not important here. I will leave it at that, and say little more.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125067#Comment_125067

one is motivated to create a PBB only if you don't have it and can't get it. What is or is not available in PBB's depends specifically on what people like myself chose to do.

Yes, generally speaking. But we already had Calvin's commentaries in PBB before Logos did them in Version 4.

Will Logos make any public domain PBBs available when they could produce their own in-house version for a better profit? For example: Barnes' Notes or the Stone-Campbell works that Calvin Habig did are all public domain titles that have a profitable marketability. I doubt Logos would make just any titles available in PBB format..

I already have most every Puritan writer in Pre-Pub in PDF format. (80 CDs full) It would not be hard to PBB all that but I doubt Logos would compile any of it. Same with the Stone-Campbell material. (Millineal Harbinger, The Christian Baptist, Works of Lard, Franklin, etc.)

So there isn't much need for PBB in Logos 4 outside of a "vanity press" function. Everybody wants to write a book and Logos is king of copyrighted Bible related ebooks. I doubt any PBBs come out in Logos 4 without close scrutiny for copyright infringement or due consideration to how it's publication will impact future Logos publication opportunities. (That is why the Puritan works show up in Pre-Pub and not Community Pricing.. There is a bigger profit to be made.)

I still think you won't get the 900+ Version 3 PBBs in Logos 4.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125102#Comment_125102

I already have most every Puritan writer in Pre-Pub in PDF format. (80 CDs full) It would not be hard to PBB all that but I doubt Logos would compile any of it. Same with the Stone-Campbell material. (Millineal Harbinger, The Christian Baptist, Works of Lard, Franklin, etc.)

So there isn't much need for PBB in Logos 4 outside of a "vanity press" function. Everybody wants to write a book and Logos is king of copyrighted Bible related ebooks. I doubt any PBBs come out in Logos 4 without close scrutiny for copyright infringement or due consideration to how it's publication will impact future Logos publication opportunities. (That is why the Puritan works show up in Pre-Pub and not Community Pricing.. There is a bigger profit to be made.)

Have you made many PBB's from PDF's in L3? I suspect that L4 with the increased indexing, pagination, etc. will be more effort to do well. I wouldn't expect Logos to "censor" what one compiles; they logically could request the author to respect copyright laws for items in any "PBB store"

Why do you doubt Logos would compile Puritan or Stone-Campbell material? As for "vanity press", I am currently approaching a Coptic Orthodox publisher for permission to make PBB's of some of their work. Is this vanity press?

Your writing style admittedly confuses me - you give your conclusions but not the logic that gets you there. Unfortunately, I think in truth-tables and need the steps leading to you conclusions. I'd appreciate your trying to resolve my confusion.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125311#Comment_125311

Why do you doubt Logos would compile Puritan or Stone-Campbell material?

MJ,
If I were the Logos exec who has to decide to compile a PBB of a Stone-Campbell Collection or put one up in Pre-Pub for $200, I would do the later.

I'd appreciate your trying to resolve my confusion.

I would like to tell you I am wise enough not to debate someone of superior intellect. But we both know that isn't the case. [:P] So I'll have to defer this until later. I'm experiencing serious health challenges and need to determine if it is "only" pancreatitis or something more ominous. I suspect they will hold me hostage in the hospital for a number of days. Besides, any posts I make now are tainted from sleepless nights of pain.

I do covet your prayers.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125617#Comment_125617

I'm experiencing serious health challenges and need to determine if it is "only" pancreatitis or something more ominous.

You'll be in my prayers - that sort of health problem is no fun.[:(]

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125640#Comment_125640

Sorry to come onto the discussion late, but I think this could be a really smart move. I think the pricing model would be to allow PBB creation for free.

The idea of the store is an interesting one. One of Logos' most significant costs is content creation/formatting. If it costs them $10,000 to tag and publish a public domain resource that the community is willing to do for free, then why not sell it on the PBB store for $1 or so? If the system can be automated, then overheads would be very low, bar credit-card processing costs. But I could imagine a split where 40% covers costs, 10% goes to the creator, and Logos would keep perhaps 50%. I could easily see several hundred thousand PBB works sold for $1 over the course of a year - if they were marked up well and properly integrated into Logos. There could even be bulk credit discounts to keep those card processing costs low. Do the maths: 100,000 PBBs selling for $1 could net Logos $50,000. That would probably pay for the infrastructure within the first year. Indeed, much of the infrastructure would be shared with in-app purchasing which must surely be on the horizon soon.

Would Logos allow users to re-create titles they've spend thousands of dollars creating? Probably not - yet. But once they've got their money back, I wouldn't be surprised.

The problem I see here is in quality control. What's stopping us downloading documents from CCEL, converting them to PBB format and uploading them to the store, with the formatting and mark-up done badly? You wouldn't want twenty copies of different books from different creators, either. There's a couple of options. One would be to charge content creators before they can sell. The second would be to manually review every submission. I wouldn't be surprised if Logos did both.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125647#Comment_125647

I've already contacted a Coptic press that makes a number of books available in PDF format suggesting that they might want to consider the PBB format. I can easily see it as a win-win situation. I can also see them easily taking 6 months to make a decision so it doesn't hurt to start early. [:)]

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125652#Comment_125652

It's quite possible that Logos might only allow Public Domain works on the PBB store, to protect their revenue and ensure quality resources are fully tagged and supported.

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125653#Comment_125653

It appears to me that there are two major changes in PBB system from what we have seen working in V3:

1. Logos 4 is not using any addins anymore, so PBB compiler will have to be part of Logos 4, that means everybody will have it. Before we also paid for the compilation, only the way had been different. We bought a PBB Book Builder, plus we paid an annual fee. If the new system would let me pay to compile a single pbb resource or even to buy any work of other guys via Apps store, I am perfectly fine with that.

2. Logos 4 PBB should be "no second-class citizen". With V3 PBBs we could have some PBBs that would slower down whole system (large PBBs, if done by one html file, just to give one example). Logos is decided, as far as I understand it, to make sure PBBs are not able to cripple Logos 4 performance. So it looks to me they will have their hands on the end result by having compilation done on their servers (sort of Apple's way of approving the applications offered in their Apps Store).

My question is: will we still have 2 options for PBBs? The Standard one and Private one? Will I be able to compile some books I have rights to use but not to offer to anybody else?

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125669#Comment_125669

It appears to me that there are two major changes in PBB system from what we have seen working in V3:

1. Logos 4 is not using any addins anymore, so PBB compiler will have to be part of Logos 4, that means everybody will have it.

Not necessarily. While they aren't implemented as separately purchasable "addins" anymore, there are different features that are only available in higher up base packages. So they do have the technical capability to have features such as the PBB compiler be available only to those who pay for it, whether it's build into the main Logos engine or not. I suspect that as a compiler (which just takes a source file as input and produces a resulting resource file) it won't need to be part of the Logos UI, and I don't see any strong reason why they would choose to make it so. But I can't read their minds.

If the new system would let me pay to compile a single pbb resource or even to buy any work of other guys via Apps store, I am perfectly fine with that.

Martha and I heard a hint from a Logos employee at Camp Logos a couple of months ago that there will be some sort of marketplace for PBBs created by users.

Logos is decided, as far as I understand it, to make sure PBBs are not able to cripple Logos 4 performance. So it looks to me they will have their hands on the end result by having compilation done on their servers (sort of Apple's way of approving the applications offered in their Apps Store).

They won't necessarily have to do it that way. They could choose to make their compiler available for users to run on their own computers. It sounds like all PBBs will have to be compiled in order to run, because they've said they are going to be using native Logos book format for PBBs in L4.

My question is: will we still have 2 options for PBBs? The Standard one and Private one? Will I be able to compile some books I have rights to use but not to offer to anybody else?

Your guess is as good as mine. I think they are still working out the details. They haven't begun implementing PBB yet, according to a recent comment by Bob or Bradley (I think) referring to what is marked "Started" vs. "Planned" on the UserVoice site.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/125669#Comment_125669

My question is: will we still have 2 options for PBBs? The Standard one and Private one? Will I be able to compile some books I have rights to use but not to offer to anybody else?

Yes, Logos has made it very clear that the default is private and there will be some ability to specify a small group as well as public to all.

Dennis Audet

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/124397#Comment_124397

What does the timinglook like for implementing Personal Book Builder for L4.x?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/127066#Comment_127066

What does the timinglook like for implementing Personal Book Builder for L4.x?

That's anybody's guess - Q3?