Why should someone buy Logos instead of QuickVerse?
Comments
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ReneAtchley said:
If a consumer wants the cutting edge professional post-modern revolutionary networked super interface then Logos is certainly the superior product
I've been cheated! I demand a refund! I didn't get the post-modern revolutionary version[:(]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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ReneAtchley,you ask what bone I have to pick, Well the thread is about why should someone buy Logos instead of QV, I am saying Logos is a better value book for book and the actual program is much better for any level of study, and Logos has bible programs starting as low as 150 dollars at full retail, not 600 dollars like you mention, and if a person then adds the free pbbs (about a 1000 books) to this program they have a very nice Library that is easy to use, (go to the grocery store), but it also can do those other things(fine dinning) if you decided you want to later! There are at least 3 QV programs that cost more than 150 dollars even at their sale prices and they are mostly public domain books, they are easy to use ,but can not be up graded to the Logos level.
But if you are really wanting a low cost program people should look into the free program that I mentioned, you would not believe how much that program can do at no cost.
Still for my money a person is better off going with Logos and adding to the program as you need different books, you still have a program that is not limited like the QV is and a program has not only public domain books but the best choice of copyrighted books for the money.
Nothing like a good side by side demo of different systems to see what fits a persons pocket book and needs too bad this is not possible over the internet.
I have noticed a lot of your posts, and read them carefully, and I could be wrong, but I don't believe you understand all the things that can be done with Libronix 3 without going to a camp, I can understand that, I don't think Logos ever marketed the use of Libronix 3 correctly for those just starting out in bible study, they have a weakness in that area.
The fault is not in the program, but rather Logos does a poor job training people in how to use the system if all you want is a simple way to study the bible and to do advance reseach by only using the big reports and the go button. You don't need all the other stuff, but everyone thinks you do! And that is wrong.
In Christ,
Jim
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MJ. Smith said:
Is my memory failing again? or were we asked to not name other products because of the search engine issue?
I am not sure what you mean by this MJ. Could you throw some light on this? As i think the participant on this thread have complied and are within the forum rules of not "promoting or linking to competitors " software. Am i misunderstanding you, pardon me as it will not be the first? I am not aware one could not mention another software, i may have missed this but i can't find that info in the forum.
I know you were not complaining or making a big deal out of this, just curious to know more[:)].
Blessing.
Ted
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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Ted Hans said:
am not sure what you mean by this MJ. Could you throw some light on this? As i think the participant on this thread have complied and are within the forum rules of not "promoting or linking to competitors " software. Am i misunderstanding you, pardon me as it will not be the first? I am not aware one could not mention another software, i may have missed this but i can't find that info in the forum.
I believe that our dear Martha is referring to the post where Dan Pritchett said that when you mention the name of a product in the forum, "bots" pick them up and the become "hits" in a search engine search...and in turn, the Logos forum becomes an advertising venue for a competitor's product.
I hope that came out right...Dan's post was a good one but I can't find it at the moment.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
I believe that our dear Martha is referring to the post where Dan Pritchett said that when you mention the name of a product in the forum, "bots" pick them up and the become "hits" in a search engine search...and in turn, the Logos forum becomes an advertising venue for a competitor's product.
I hope that came out right...Dan's post was a good one but I can't find it at the moment
Ha, thanks Bob i forgot about that. I very much appreciate the reminder.
Ted
Dell, studio XPS 7100, Ram 8GB, 64 - bit Operating System, AMD Phenom(mt) IIX6 1055T Processor 2.80 GHZ
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MJ. Smith said:
Is my memory failing again? or were we asked to not name other products because of the search engine issue? No, not complaining about the initial question and answers - but using QV etc. would solve the search engine issue.
But is there is not also the advantage of when someone is searching for information on QV, gets a hit to this thread, and can see that the basic consensus is that "QV is good, but Logos is the best"?
Just a thought...[:)]
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Alan Macgregor said:
A Fiat 600 is a tiny car powered by a 600cc engine. Strictly utilitarian but with style.
Alan, you have
explained it very well, I think nowadays this car is not possible to find it anywhere
except in Eritrea. I did my driving license with it before many years, any way
I laughed as I always do, with Dann’s comments.Blessings in Christ.
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Rosie Perera said:Philip Spitzer said:
Logos = Buy it now, that's it.
Actually, it's more like "Buy it now, then buy some more resources, then a few more, then discover the pre-pub program (what great deals!) and order some more, then discover the community pricing program (what AWESOME deals!) and bid on some more, then some of your pre-pubs start shipping and you start paying for them, then your community pricing bids move into pre-pub, now you're totally addicted and keep buying resources until your spouse finds out what's been sending the credit card bill through the roof and then you're in trouble!"
I saw this on Twitter today (from Rick Warren), "Dont fear temptation; use it to GROW. Temptation is just a choice.Everytime u choose to do the RIGHT thing,u get stronger." Could he be talking about Logos and our growing libraries? [:O]
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Amy Leung said:
I saw this on Twitter today (from Rick Warren), "Dont fear temptation; use it to GROW. Temptation is just a choice.Everytime u choose to do the RIGHT thing,u get stronger." Could he be talking about Logos and our growing libraries?
I like it. [:)] The only problem, I can see, is that Rick Warren sells WORDs***** software...[;)]
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Paul Golder said:
The only problem, I can see, is that Rick Warren sells WORD
I think you could have stopped right there, software is not the only thing Warren sells....
DP
<><
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MJ. Smith said:
Is my memory failing again? or were we asked to not name other products because of the search engine issue? No, not complaining about the initial question and answers - but using QV etc. would solve the search engine issue.
No, your memory is not failing. I suggest that we call all other Bible software - VBS for Voldemort (He-who-must-not-be-named) Bible Software. [;)]
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Alan Macgregor said:
No, your memory is not failing. I suggest that we call all other Bible software - VBS for Voldemort (He-who-must-not-be-named) Bible Software.
Watch out! You get a thread started on whether Christians should read Harry Potter books.
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Bill Gordon said:
Watch out! You get a thread started on whether Christians should read Harry Potter books.
Are you talking about the Harry Potter that is the modern day Lord of the Rings?
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Those who complain about the cost of the Logos system conveniently forget one of Logos greatest strengths—their partnership with publishing partners. For $600 you can blow out of the water any other digital library in terms of both the quantity and quality of books. Here is what I mean (numbers are rounded up and these are discounted internet prices anyone can find today):
Logos Bible Study Library $270
eBible Expanded Edition $60
Baker Digital Level 3 $20
IVP Essential Collection $115
AMG Bible Essentials $50
NLT Study Bible $30
WEA Theological Library $35
The grand total is $580. This is a truly awesome library that leaves Speedy Verse in the dust.
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If you're talking to people who are not completely and totally flabbergasted by a $600 price tag for any software (the vast majority of people spend little more then that for their whole computer setup), the let the Logos intro videos and packages speak for themselves... QV tends to sell for LESS THEN $100 as an avg selling price... I'm guessing the avg selling price for Logos is somewhere in the range of $300-500.
I think the point many people are making is that QV on that less then $100 price range has competition that starts at free (a fantastic way to get started with bible software for many) and is literally a ministry outreach. I personally think these people are spot on.
The key advantages I have experienced are:
1. Logos has, by far, the largest and fastest growing library:
There's approximately a 30% chance that a book I find I'm interested in print, that I'd like in my library is found somewhere in Logos... higher for commentaries, like %80. With other PC software, it never even crossed my mind (Mac's a different story). There are still problems in this space, I can purchase a NICOT single volume on Amazon for less then $30, but to get the same volume on Logos means I have to make a $1500 purchase. That's crazy IMHO, but the issue here isn't Logos, it's publishers. They'll come around, it will just take time.2. When I purchase a book, my purchase is good for the life of the company:
This is exactly why I would STRONGLY recommend against QV purchases above $100. As a student, I spent ~$500 (think 15+ years ago... dos ruled the world, etc.) on QV... that is now GONE. So are my volumes of notes... I wish I'd spent that money on old fashioned books. Logos has proven their commitment out over time. I received a J Vernon McGee Logos package years ago that I loaded up then stopped using when I moved to mac... I recently found I'm able to install and use the whole library of commentaries without having to pay for it again in Logos 4 on the Mac! Wow! You quite simply will not find the longevity of a book in software IMHO, but Logos definitely comes the closest!0 -
Mike S. said:
If you're talking to people who are not completely and totally flabbergasted by a $600 price tag for any software (the vast majority of people spend little more then that for their whole computer setup), the let the Logos intro videos and packages speak for themselves... QV tends to sell for LESS THEN $100 as an avg selling price... I'm guessing the avg selling price for Logos is somewhere in the range of $300-500.
OK. I would take the AMG Library or the Nelson eBilbe (both with street prices well under $100) over the either to under $100 Speedy Verse products anyday. There is no comparison in the quality of the books and the Libronix collection gives a person the option of upgrading to one of the Logos base packages someday.
BTW: I just found an eBible extended edition for only $40, an eBible Ultimate for only $10, an eBible Platinum for only $150. It only takes a little effort to find great deals on Logos compatable software. There is no reason to ever suggest to ANYONE that price is a barrier to starting out with the very best in Bible software.
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It sort of hard to understand sometimes why there is so much problem pointing out the obvious in the cyber theological world. Indeed there are free Bible programs eS.... is a prime example but the last time I looked it had a significant number of its modules for sale. In many ways approaching or surpassing the cost of a QV product with even a few module purchases. Perhaps the beauty of a theologically trained mine is why accept the obvious when one can argue endlessly over the theoretical period that doesn't exist yet....[:^)]
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I still think that there's a much better analogy - when comparing Logos to other Bible programs, because Logos is not an automobile.ReneAtchley said:Is a Mercedes a better car than a PT Cruiser to get groceries? Guess it depends on what one needs and how much money they have I suppose.
It's like - (very similar to) - comparing the professional level architectural/drafting program called AutoCad to Google SketchUp. AutoCad costs around $2500.00 (last time I checked) and you have to take classes to learn to use it. Google SketchUp is free and it's relatively easy to use (although they have a paid version too).
But . . . AutoCad can do so much more than SketchUp.
- With AutoCAD you can design an entire building (or series of buildings) - including every single phase, structural, electrical, plumbing, HVAC, Data distribution & networking, etc.
- With SketchUp you can design a patio for your back yard & that's about it. (over simplified for effect of course)
It's the same with Bible software. Logos can do so much more than the others.
So as you said, it comes down to asking yourself - What - exactly - do I want and need to do with this Bible software? If all you are going to do with it is read a Bible and have a commentary follow you or do some devotions - you may not need Logos. In that case spend accordingly.
If however, you want to do some real research and dig deep - Logos is the better tool and the better value - dollar for dollar.
So, it all depends on what you want to do - or need to do.
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I appreciate your response Stein. It makes several legitimate points about the nature of software in this digital age. I wonder thought how did we ever "dig deep" before Logos?
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ReneAtchley said:
I wonder thought how did we ever "dig deep" before Logos?
It is truly amazing that the world got by for thousands of years with a library and a pencil (or quill, if you will).
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Paul Golder said:
It is truly amazing that the world got by for thousands of years with a library and a pencil (or quill, if you will).
Today we live in what Walter Ong described as the hypertext age, when the way we think, and learn is multimedia. We don't need to remember because recall is relatively easy. (Think how often we refer each other in these forums to previous threads by providing links.) Previously we had writing implements and printed books, so we could write and remember by doing that. That was the typographic age. When Mark wrote his Gospel the world was relatively illiterate. Less than 10% of the population could read, let alone write which was a different skill. People heard and remembered. They lived largely in an oral world.
However, what is remarkable (from a worldly perspective) is that God's Word has successfully communicated in all of these communications environments, because it is precisely that – His Word. God is able to harness all these communications environments to His Word … and we ought to give thanks to Him for that. It will always work for Him in His way. Isaiah 55:11
Our God is truly an awesome God!
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ReneAtchley, I find your comments and talk about a cyber theological world and a theoretical period that doesn't exist yet very interesting. However, what you are saying and what I know from the hands on teaching of 100's or 1000's of people over the last 6 years and showing them how to use many different bible software programs just does not line up. And if you go back through your comments on this thread, you started out saying Logos was to hard to use, which is not true, if you know how to use it, then you said it cost to much at 600 dollars, but when shown that you can get the program for as little as 150 dollars there was no real comment on that.
And when free programs were brought up you mentioned an old program but seemed to have little experience with the Wo-d program that I mentioned. Now you are saying that the free program costs more than QV if you use the old e-sw program and buy just a few copyrighted modules. That might be true, but in most cases you would also have much better resources than the ones in the cheap QV programs, and we should not forget that. But did you know the program that I am talking about has modules like the Net Bible, ESV and Lexham NT for free along with more than 1000 free modules that allow for a great starter program? And the program it's self is as good or better than the one you bring up.
It really appears to me that you have a very limited hands on experience with Logos and other bible software, when it comes to what is out there and what can be done with what programs, and yet you are talking about a theoretical period that doesn't exist yet. From my every day experience you are at least a year behind the times.
I know this makes no difference to you, but it is important for other Logos owners to understand, Logos can be very inexpensive to start with and Keith Larson gives some great examples on how a person could get started in it for very little money and then grow it from there. And another major point to be made is that if a person wants a simple program, Libronix 3 and the Passage guide, plus the big orange button is about as easy as it gets, but most Libronix users fail to see how to use those guides. That is a major draw back in the Logos training not in the system. Libronix 3 can be as simple or complicated as you need it to be.
I am glad that QV is so useful to you, but in my opinion it is an over priced public domain centered program, with very few good copyrighted materials even in their 600 dollar program. However, if it was the only program I had, I would be thankful for it, but if I had the free Wor- program I would use it rather than QV.
I mean you no harm but we really disagree on this one.
In Christ,
Jim
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Indeed Alan I've been hearing about this great leap in world consciousness since I first entered seminary in 1989..where we learned about post-modernism from the President's showing of the original Batman in his home. It is indeed remarkable, even in this world changing paradigm shift, that an ancient text is still the basis of both the presence and power of God's Word in our present world. If some day we paradigm shift out of this paradigm shift how much money will all of these new paradigm based communication products will be worth on our ultra shifted communication devices. For me I am less impressed with each paradigm shift as I am the continued need to communicate a simple story to bring about healing to other humans with the simplest and least expensive tools....sort of a metastory without computers I suppose. There is a direct threat the new communication technologies when questioned from a practical divinity perspective I think.
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Rene,
It almost seems as if you are using Logos against your will, like you are using it only because you "need" to or perhaps have to.
You asked a question "I wonder how did we ever "dig deep" before Logos. To tell you the truth I don't think many pastor's did "dig deep", because of time constraints and lack of a decent library. After all a library of say 750 books averaged at 20.00 ea. would cost a pastor $15,000. Logos has lowered that cost considerably!
I think part of the problem you are seeing about pricing is seeing expensive book collections offered that at one time in hardback only could be afforded by wealthy students, pastors or seminary libraries. Now we all want it on our personal computer, after all who lives near a great theological library? We are at the beginning of the digital age for bible studies. It was in 1995 Logos introduced the library concept for bible software, and produced maybe a hundred or so titles a year in the beginning. We have come a long way. But with Logos books are still working from the Dos/Windows 3.1 days. I think that's awesome.
With WS software, if you had purchased step format books, you had to pay a fee per book to get them updated to the latest WS format. Zondervan & QV were the same way with orphaned file formats. You had to pay to update books you had already paid for!
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Rene, some of your comments just do not relate to this topic, if you do not think we should be using tools to study the scriptures we should also not use QV, or Logos, in fact should we even use books, after all scrolls did the job too!
You are making a good comment about the simple gospel and how it is what God uses to heal our relationship with Him, but using a bible study program doesn't change that, and neither does not using one! The gospel is based on spiritual principles that hopefully we will come in contact with when we study our bible and hopefully God will reveal them to us as we study His revelation to us.
The question at the heart of this post is simple...why should someone buy Logos instead of QuickVerse.
In Christ,
Jim
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Bill Gordon said:Alan Macgregor said:
No, your memory is not failing. I suggest that we call all other Bible software - VBS for Voldemort (He-who-must-not-be-named) Bible Software.
Watch out! You get a thread started on whether Christians should read Harry Potter books.
. . . . . .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... ............................................................................................................................Um, yeah, . . . . . . siiiiiiiiigh. My daughter took one . . . to . . . .church a couple weeks ago. I think we were accused of putting the [6] into DeVil-der. Seriously, it kind of blew up. I hadn't even known she had the book. Grandma gave it to her.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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The responses on this thread started out fairly helpful. Somewhere it took a turn toward more "edginess." Not sure why, folks. We are just talking about software. And this is a Logos site. And I am guessing that most of you love Christ and are grateful for his salvation. Relax. Take time to gently ask for clarification. Be patient. Make an extra effort to inject your responses with graciousness.
As to the OP--I never used QV. Well, I tried it once. I have chosen Logos for the library and the power. Plain and simple. I hope, however, that there is no strife amongst your church members about what package is better. Encourage each other in your use of the various software. The key is "how is it helping you grow." Shouldn't matter much if it is Public Domain or copyrighted material. Kind of like arguing over the best study bible or translation. We have preferences, but in the end, what matters is whether we are growing because of our use of them? Share what you are learning and ask them how they are learning . . . and REJOICE! (disclaimer: I am not referring to another software peddler with that last Word . . . nor with that last one--man, I need a quick verse to arrrrrgh, there I did it again! I just want us to be all in accordance with the Logos!!!!! [;)]
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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BobbyTerhune said:
With WS software, if you had purchased step format books, you had to pay a fee per book to get them updated to the latest WS format. Zondervan & QV were the same way with orphaned file formats. You had to pay to update books you had already paid for!
Assuming you can upgrade. Several books available in earlier formats are no longer available for these software packages. I really liked one of these programs in Dos and early Windows days when the company was owned by an individual. At one point the version I had no longer worked on a newer operating system (WinXP) and the newer software did not support several books I had purchased (these are no longer available in that package). Logos promises that we will never need to buy a book twice. One set that I bought in Logos 2 that is no longer available for sale (as Bob pointed out "at any price") downloaded and works fine in L4.
I also appreciate the availability of current, high quality, resources in Logos. I believe that some of the other commercial packages offer large libraries of Public Domain works and have a nicer user interface than the free programs (one offers a simplified version of the program and about 200 PD books for free). None of them offer the quality or depth of resources (or the great customer service) that Logos does.
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Dan DeVilder said:
Share what you are learning and ask them how they are learning . . . and REJOICE! (disclaimer: I am not referring to another software peddler with that last Word . . . nor with that last one--man, I need a quick verse to arrrrrgh, there I did it again! I just want us to be all in accordance with the Logos!!!!!
I had to laugh over this! Clever, Dan!
Charlene
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Ted Hans said:
I am not aware one could not mention another software, i may have missed this but i can't find that info in the forum.
Robert's answer was correct.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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