Why should someone buy Logos instead of QuickVerse?
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Paul Golder said:
It is truly amazing that the world got by for thousands of years with a library and a pencil (or quill, if you will).
Today we live in what Walter Ong described as the hypertext age, when the way we think, and learn is multimedia. We don't need to remember because recall is relatively easy. (Think how often we refer each other in these forums to previous threads by providing links.) Previously we had writing implements and printed books, so we could write and remember by doing that. That was the typographic age. When Mark wrote his Gospel the world was relatively illiterate. Less than 10% of the population could read, let alone write which was a different skill. People heard and remembered. They lived largely in an oral world.
However, what is remarkable (from a worldly perspective) is that God's Word has successfully communicated in all of these communications environments, because it is precisely that – His Word. God is able to harness all these communications environments to His Word … and we ought to give thanks to Him for that. It will always work for Him in His way. Isaiah 55:11
Our God is truly an awesome God!
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MacBook Air 13.3": 1.8GHz; 4GB RAM; MacOS 10.13.6; 256GB SSD; Logos 8
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ReneAtchley, I find your comments and talk about a cyber theological world and a theoretical period that doesn't exist yet very interesting. However, what you are saying and what I know from the hands on teaching of 100's or 1000's of people over the last 6 years and showing them how to use many different bible software programs just does not line up. And if you go back through your comments on this thread, you started out saying Logos was to hard to use, which is not true, if you know how to use it, then you said it cost to much at 600 dollars, but when shown that you can get the program for as little as 150 dollars there was no real comment on that.
And when free programs were brought up you mentioned an old program but seemed to have little experience with the Wo-d program that I mentioned. Now you are saying that the free program costs more than QV if you use the old e-sw program and buy just a few copyrighted modules. That might be true, but in most cases you would also have much better resources than the ones in the cheap QV programs, and we should not forget that. But did you know the program that I am talking about has modules like the Net Bible, ESV and Lexham NT for free along with more than 1000 free modules that allow for a great starter program? And the program it's self is as good or better than the one you bring up.
It really appears to me that you have a very limited hands on experience with Logos and other bible software, when it comes to what is out there and what can be done with what programs, and yet you are talking about a theoretical period that doesn't exist yet. From my every day experience you are at least a year behind the times.
I know this makes no difference to you, but it is important for other Logos owners to understand, Logos can be very inexpensive to start with and Keith Larson gives some great examples on how a person could get started in it for very little money and then grow it from there. And another major point to be made is that if a person wants a simple program, Libronix 3 and the Passage guide, plus the big orange button is about as easy as it gets, but most Libronix users fail to see how to use those guides. That is a major draw back in the Logos training not in the system. Libronix 3 can be as simple or complicated as you need it to be.
I am glad that QV is so useful to you, but in my opinion it is an over priced public domain centered program, with very few good copyrighted materials even in their 600 dollar program. However, if it was the only program I had, I would be thankful for it, but if I had the free Wor- program I would use it rather than QV.
I mean you no harm but we really disagree on this one.
In Christ,
Jim
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Indeed Alan I've been hearing about this great leap in world consciousness since I first entered seminary in 1989..where we learned about post-modernism from the President's showing of the original Batman in his home. It is indeed remarkable, even in this world changing paradigm shift, that an ancient text is still the basis of both the presence and power of God's Word in our present world. If some day we paradigm shift out of this paradigm shift how much money will all of these new paradigm based communication products will be worth on our ultra shifted communication devices. For me I am less impressed with each paradigm shift as I am the continued need to communicate a simple story to bring about healing to other humans with the simplest and least expensive tools....sort of a metastory without computers I suppose. There is a direct threat the new communication technologies when questioned from a practical divinity perspective I think.
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Rene,
It almost seems as if you are using Logos against your will, like you are using it only because you "need" to or perhaps have to.
You asked a question "I wonder how did we ever "dig deep" before Logos. To tell you the truth I don't think many pastor's did "dig deep", because of time constraints and lack of a decent library. After all a library of say 750 books averaged at 20.00 ea. would cost a pastor $15,000. Logos has lowered that cost considerably!
I think part of the problem you are seeing about pricing is seeing expensive book collections offered that at one time in hardback only could be afforded by wealthy students, pastors or seminary libraries. Now we all want it on our personal computer, after all who lives near a great theological library? We are at the beginning of the digital age for bible studies. It was in 1995 Logos introduced the library concept for bible software, and produced maybe a hundred or so titles a year in the beginning. We have come a long way. But with Logos books are still working from the Dos/Windows 3.1 days. I think that's awesome.
With WS software, if you had purchased step format books, you had to pay a fee per book to get them updated to the latest WS format. Zondervan & QV were the same way with orphaned file formats. You had to pay to update books you had already paid for!
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Rene, some of your comments just do not relate to this topic, if you do not think we should be using tools to study the scriptures we should also not use QV, or Logos, in fact should we even use books, after all scrolls did the job too!
You are making a good comment about the simple gospel and how it is what God uses to heal our relationship with Him, but using a bible study program doesn't change that, and neither does not using one! The gospel is based on spiritual principles that hopefully we will come in contact with when we study our bible and hopefully God will reveal them to us as we study His revelation to us.
The question at the heart of this post is simple...why should someone buy Logos instead of QuickVerse.
In Christ,
Jim
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Bill Gordon said:Alan Macgregor said:
No, your memory is not failing. I suggest that we call all other Bible software - VBS for Voldemort (He-who-must-not-be-named) Bible Software.
Watch out! You get a thread started on whether Christians should read Harry Potter books.
. . . . . .................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... ............................................................................................................................Um, yeah, . . . . . . siiiiiiiiigh. My daughter took one . . . to . . . .church a couple weeks ago. I think we were accused of putting the [6] into DeVil-der. Seriously, it kind of blew up. I hadn't even known she had the book. Grandma gave it to her.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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The responses on this thread started out fairly helpful. Somewhere it took a turn toward more "edginess." Not sure why, folks. We are just talking about software. And this is a Logos site. And I am guessing that most of you love Christ and are grateful for his salvation. Relax. Take time to gently ask for clarification. Be patient. Make an extra effort to inject your responses with graciousness.
As to the OP--I never used QV. Well, I tried it once. I have chosen Logos for the library and the power. Plain and simple. I hope, however, that there is no strife amongst your church members about what package is better. Encourage each other in your use of the various software. The key is "how is it helping you grow." Shouldn't matter much if it is Public Domain or copyrighted material. Kind of like arguing over the best study bible or translation. We have preferences, but in the end, what matters is whether we are growing because of our use of them? Share what you are learning and ask them how they are learning . . . and REJOICE! (disclaimer: I am not referring to another software peddler with that last Word . . . nor with that last one--man, I need a quick verse to arrrrrgh, there I did it again! I just want us to be all in accordance with the Logos!!!!! [;)]
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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BobbyTerhune said:
With WS software, if you had purchased step format books, you had to pay a fee per book to get them updated to the latest WS format. Zondervan & QV were the same way with orphaned file formats. You had to pay to update books you had already paid for!
Assuming you can upgrade. Several books available in earlier formats are no longer available for these software packages. I really liked one of these programs in Dos and early Windows days when the company was owned by an individual. At one point the version I had no longer worked on a newer operating system (WinXP) and the newer software did not support several books I had purchased (these are no longer available in that package). Logos promises that we will never need to buy a book twice. One set that I bought in Logos 2 that is no longer available for sale (as Bob pointed out "at any price") downloaded and works fine in L4.
I also appreciate the availability of current, high quality, resources in Logos. I believe that some of the other commercial packages offer large libraries of Public Domain works and have a nicer user interface than the free programs (one offers a simplified version of the program and about 200 PD books for free). None of them offer the quality or depth of resources (or the great customer service) that Logos does.
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Dan DeVilder said:
Share what you are learning and ask them how they are learning . . . and REJOICE! (disclaimer: I am not referring to another software peddler with that last Word . . . nor with that last one--man, I need a quick verse to arrrrrgh, there I did it again! I just want us to be all in accordance with the Logos!!!!!
I had to laugh over this! Clever, Dan!
Charlene
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Ted Hans said:
I am not aware one could not mention another software, i may have missed this but i can't find that info in the forum.
Robert's answer was correct.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Charlene said:Dan DeVilder said:
Share what you are learning and ask them how they are learning . . . and REJOICE! (disclaimer: I am not referring to another software peddler with that last Word . . . nor with that last one--man, I need a quick verse to arrrrrgh, there I did it again! I just want us to be all in accordance with the Logos!!!!!
I had to laugh over this! Clever, Dan!
THANK YOU, Charlene!!!! Now I can rest, knowing that someone got my humor! Actually, I am just getting up to work on a sermon, lol. The house is quiet. Great time to study . . .
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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ReneAtchley said:
the beauty of a theologically trained mine
Another absolutely marvelous typo - I always knew discussing theology was a mine field - but I didn't know it was because the IDE's were theological trained.[:O]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:ReneAtchley said:
the beauty of a theologically trained mine
Another absolutely marvelous typo - I always knew discussing theology was a mine field - but I didn't know it was because the IDE's were theological trained.
Now, if coal mines were theologically trained, maybe they wouldn't claim so many lives in W. Virginia and China...
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I am a pastor who owns/owned or used several Bible software packages. Logos is far-and-away the most comprehensive and well-rounded.
I found that, QV is the weakest one in dealing with the original languages (go to their site and look at their list of offerings in their best package.... there is a huge void when it comes to original languages.) Biblesoft, e-sword, WordSearch, and BibleWorks all are superior to QV in that area. Logos and Bibleworks are in a league of their own in this area.
The commentaries for Logos are also superior.
But... the power of the basic software is where the real difference is. Logos a generation or two ahead of of its competitors.
QV is good for rudimentary study. It is adequate and it has its niche in Bible software. Of the packages I used and reviewed, QV would not be my third or fourth choice. For me, to trade Logos for QV would be similar to trading a car for a bicycle.
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Stephen Aldrich said:
For me, to trade Logos for QV would be similar to trading a car for a bicycle.
Stephen you are right .I compared it Mercedes with 600 Fiat ,yours is even better.
Blessings in Christ.
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Which is my point about e-Sword. It is just as good as QV, and free.
But neither come close to Logos, especially V4. For me, there is no reason to own or open another program.
Jerry
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
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I started out with QuickVerse when they started out and was with them for over a decade. When I saw what Logos could do, I left QV behind because it seems to me Logos left it behind. I was very sad to also have to leave behind the books I had bought, but so it goes. I am actually kind of surprised QV still exists. Logos is so powerful and even having been to two Morris Proctor seminars (for Libronix 3) I have not even begun to discover just how powerful it is. I just don't have the time to study the program as much as I would like to. Still, even though I know I'm only scratching the surface of it's capabilities, the passage and exegetical guides alone give me more than I can possibly digest each week and connect me with a HUGE library of commentaries and dictionaries and word studies. I don't really think you can compare the two (though I confess to having left QV behind several years ago).
Godspeed the sermon this week all who are already beginning it (which is what I should be doing right now instead of sloughing off here ;-))...
Windows PC - Android Phone - Surface Pro 4
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I tried QV for a very short time with a minimal package. When the program did not work as expected (viewing .pdf's), I contacted technical support. Still waiting for their reply. [:S]
-Rick
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Greetings everyone! I stumbled unto this thread and while I think I understand the gist of the debate, I am mystified as to why this is such a hot topic. I use a free program, along with the products that are being debated, and I find them all very useful. But are the tools you use to study the bible as significant as the people you teach the bible? Unless you are a professor in an institution where you regularly use and need these high performance tools, does it really matter? When you are teaching others, how many of the thousands of books you have access to really get used? If a student or a congregant asked you where you got your info and missed the point of the info, would you be pleased? I am happy for those that can afford the cost of upgrading, but did your ability to understand and teach the Word increase that much with the release of a new version? The question that keeps me up at night is whether our access to all these resources has made us more diligent to the task than those who are not even aware that these resources exist. In closing, I am a bit amused that this thread is not that different than others that debate which is the best brand of musical instrument or which video game system is king. We do love our toys, don't we?
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Kevin,
Hate to hear you're being kept up at night thinking about preachers with or with out Logs software, and who is the more diligent teacher or preacher. [;)] Resources are just tools, some can afford more or even better tools, but having them doesn't make them less diligent to do God's work, no more than the poor preacher that doesn't have them is more diligent. We will all stand before God and give account of what we did with our life, To whom much is given...............
I Peter 2.15-16 says "Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.
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Kevin Walker said:
I am happy for those that can afford the cost of upgrading
Kevin,I think this statement doesn't fit to your context.
Blessings in Christ.
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Reb Bacchus said:
My pastor and a couple of folks from my church are using Quick Verse. I've used Logos almost from the time the company started, but I've never used Quick Verse. What are some of the most important advantages Logos has over the other software? Oh, and have all the Family Christian Bookstores stopped carrying Logos or is it just my local store?
I have both on my computer right now. I have had Quick Verse for about 15years and it met my needs; Then I tried Logos and and can tell you the difference is comparing a Chevrolet to a Cadillac. Logos is ahead of its time and they are improving it all the time. The old saying you get what you pay for
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Kevin Walker said:
. . . did your ability to understand and teach the Word increase that much with the release of a new version?
Yes.
Logos is a tool, or a set of tools to help understand the Bible. My son has over $6000 worth of mechanics tools, and that's just a starter set. Sometimes he plays with his tools, as if they are toys, or toys around with projects with his tools. But they are tools. In the same way Logos is a set of tools designed to help understand the Bible better by bringing together in one place a set of tools and resources that work together for serious students of Scripture.
How has Logos helped me? That's a little harder to explain. First, it helps me by making some tasks easier and more efficient. I can reach for my Greek Bible, a commentary or two, an English Bible and a lexicon, find my place and start studying. In Logos I can open a layout change the passage I want to study and open the rest of the resources to that passage automatically, or with a click or two of the mouse. Further, since it's so easy, I can compare dozens of commentaries in the time it would have taken me to find and open one or two to the correct page.
But I'm just getting started. I can find almost as fast as I can type, all the references to a word or phrase in English or an original language. This makes comparing usage so easy, there's no need to look at a concordance anymore (which normally don't include the whole verse at a glance any way. With an arrow key, I can look at other Bible versions and read full passages in context in those versions, or I can compare at a glance verses with a tool designed for that purpose.
With reverse interlinears I can quickly look up the original language word or phrase behind what I'm looking at and search for terms in the original language almost as fast as I can navigate the right-click mouse menus. I can even enable visual filters to bring out key words in Greek or Hebrew (e.g., charis, hesed), or atypical usage (like Greek "ego," normally not necessary). I used that last one when looking at Romans 7:7,ff and noticed an inordinate amount of "I, me, my" there, which is not necessary in Greek, but points out (I think) a reliance on self, rather than on the Spirit (see Rom 8), unlocking a key to understanding this passage I hadn't noticed before.
With a cross-reference like the New Treasure of Scripture Knowledge (NTSK), I can hover my mouse cursor over any verse to quickly read other passages that have similar themes, words, etc.
I could go on, but I think you get the idea. Logos is not a toy, it's a tool, or rather a set of tools. It's also the best and most complete set of tools for Bible study on the planet -- and I'm saying that before it's development is even finished! It's certainly way beyond that free program I think you're talking about (which is a pretty good program, IMHO).
BTW, I'm not a professor. I'm a pastor of a >100 member rural church, who believes that these sons & daughters of the King deserve the best I can give them. There's no doubt in my mind that the best tool to help me do that job is Logos4.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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WOW...well said Richard...God Bless your ministry...and thanks also for your kind help with us here at the forum.....
Chuck
Laptop: Lenovo P580 - 15.6" IdeaPad Laptop
- 6GB Memory - 750GB Hard Drive - Windows 7
Iphone5s Logos 7, Bronze0 -
Most times anymore I read these forums just to see if the price of the upgrades have gone down yet and if the software updates have finally fixed the software. On occasion though I run across posts that get my attention...which happens much less often in these forums. What fascinates me about the last few posts in this thread is the notion that a $6000.00 or $8000.00 or $10,000.00 piece of software is a highly recommended (or necessary) tool to anything in the Christian walk. While Logos maybe convenient. It maybe efficient. It maybe effective. It maybe helpful. Yet I don't see how this new generation, cutting edge, almost independently sentient, cloud based software is more than just a sidecar to what is to be done in Christian ministry. It serves a function that almost any other genre software can also fill including QV..although not as well I would argue. If the best tools to do the job of bringing the healing power of the gospel to a hurting world is a piece of software then why are we necessary if we are. I wonder what level of product Jesus would need to do his ministry...or perhaps wait for the next complete rewrite before he could do ministry.
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Rene, upon reading your last post I had to respond. I have been an very regular reader (and occasional poster) in these forums for over a year now and I have never seen anyone who truly believed that having Logos Bible Software was "necessary" in the Christian walk. I believe that we all understand that our brothers and sisters in Christ got along quite well for centuries without even a computer - much less Logos! I was a Christian for 29 years before owning Logos. That being said, Logos has aided many of us in our personal and professional Bible study and thus, aided us in our Christian walk and our duties as Christian ministers. As a pastor who preaches every week, Logos is certainly not a "sidecar" in what I do, but it is a vital tool that enables me to be better and more productive in some aspects of my ministry. However, I was a pastor for 15 before I owned Logos and it is understood that Logos (or any other Bible software) is not a necessity or prerequisite for effective ministry. In short, Logos has made me a more effective minister, but the Lord made me a minister!
One other note, a person can acquire a Logos base package for under $150. While there are some users who have invested multiple thousands of dollars, the overwhelming majority of us have not. Again, it is a not a requirement to invest huge amounts of money. Logos can be used daily and appreciated by both the stay at home mom who gets a basic package to help with her devotions and prep for ladies Bible study and the professional minister/scholar/theologian who invests thousands of dollars in the software.
My concern here is just simply to clear up any misperceptions, etc. Blessings to you, Rene as you serve the One who died for us!
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Rene Atchley said:
What fascinates me about the last few posts in this thread is the notion that a $6000.00 or $8000.00 or $10,000.00 piece of software is a highly recommended (or necessary) tool to anything in the Christian walk.
Just to clarify, I said my son had a $6000 set of mechanics tools (Snap-On, to be specific).
As a pastor, I don't mind investing in the tools of my ministry as my son invested in his calling. $6000 worth of tools doesn't make a mechanic, nor does $2000 to $3000 (which is my guess about my Logos investment), make me a pastor or preacher. I don't know any good preacher in North America that does not have an extensive personal library. Mine happens to be in Logos.
In the circles I move in, careful Bible study is both necessary and needed. When I was a missionary in the Dominican Republic, I worked with Haitian sugar cane cutter pastors, many of whom could not even read. I saw there what happens to the church when leaders don't have basic Bible knowledge. I also saw what happens when they get it. As a pastor in North America I see folks who get their theology from the TV, radio and pop-culture. In some ways the situation here is more difficult, and careful Bible study and teaching even more necessary. Over and over again I see and confront the results of bad theology, and see the healing freedom that comes with a return to authentic Biblical truth. Logos is a tool I use to help me understand the Scriptures on some of these subtle, but amazingly important truths.
I really don't know what Jesus would have done, had software been available to Him as He graced our humble planet, but I'm sure Jesus would have done what He believed His Father required of Him, and that's what I'm called to do too.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Jim VanSchoonhoven said:
I agree with you, not everyone can or will fork over the big money for the biggest and best study system on the market, but they can spend the same 600 dollars on a Logos library, and then download the 1000 free pbbs and have a program that will out preform the QuckVerse system both in quality of books and in the level of research possible in the shortest period of time. Or they can down load a free program with over 1000 resources and still compete with if not out preform QuickVerse.
Jim i have Platinum but what about the 1000 free pbbs? Am i missing something here? i would also like to say i have both L4 and QV and have had QV for about 15years and there is no comparison to Logos L3 or L4
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Sam West said:
Jim i have Platinum but what about the 1000 free pbbs?
PBB's (Personal Book Builder resources compiled by users who purchase the PBB compiler license) are only available to Libronix (L3) at this point. Logos plans to release PBB's, Sermon Files, etc in early 2011, if the project stays on track.
Thomas Black's StillTruth web site has many, many PBB's available.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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I can't speak to QV/Logos per se, though during Bible study I bounce across 4 different software packages, depending on who's got what and can deliver quickest. But I sometimes wonder in the NT period, if the substantial expansion of the use of papyri in codex form made the writings much more available to the early Christians. I see that same process today among the church pews ... first with multiple translations and study Bibles, then lexicons, and now close to the original documents themselves. I perceive personal easy access to the Word to be the most precious of gifts, and know quite a few Logos developers work long hours for my benefit.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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So for those that some how think I don't have a valid point, would you suggest that Paul would have been a more effective teacher if he had access to bible software? To make it more personal, if you were stripped of all your resources, would you now say your not as effective in your ministry because you don't have the tools you once had? My point is that I believe the subject of this thread has generated more responses related to "anything you can do I can do better" than anything else and the fact that a thread that was inactive for such a long time could generate so many defensive responses kind of makes my point.
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I asked about the differences between version 3 and version 4, not whether Logos helped at all. In case you missed it, I said I own Logos, so I am aware of its usefullness in studying. In terms of what you give to those that you are shepherding, I have no doubt that you would be equally diligent to the task, whether you had Logos 4 Scholars library or just your Bible.
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This is not really accurate where Logos is concerned. With Logos, to actually get the future upgrades, one must also purchase at least a Feature Crossgrade, meaning an upgraded current engine, and that is not cheap. The free Logos engine updates that represent new engine versions (e.g., to 6 from 5 or 4 or 3, etc.) provide only basic engine functionality, AND SOMETIMES ACTUALLY RESULT IN LOSS OF PRIOR FUNCTIONALITY FOR RESOURCES that you would have had with your earlier full-version (i.e., fully featured for the version you had engine). I know these things from personal experience with Logos 2, 3, 4, 5 and 6.
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