Did Erasmus von Rotterdam deliberately add εἰ to Matthew 19:9?
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I wonder if in the days of christ ... durring the marriage was there an oath spoken between both parties befor God. Like the marriage vows given in many modern church marriages.
Is this not an oath given to God binding even unto our pain?
Are there verses in the Bible regarding this kind of oath. I think Numbers 30:2 speaks to this thought.
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Mike Durkin said:
Is this not an oath given to God binding even unto our pain?
If so, I'd assume the parties would have to add a series of oath exclusions ... eg 'if you don't beat me too often', or 'don't hold a knife to my throat' .... things like that. Reality.
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It's already there .... seperate , then reconciliation
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And found
Deuteronomy 23:21
When thou shalt vow a vow unto the LORD thy God, thou shalt not slack to pay it: for the LORD thy God will surely require it of thee; and it would be sin in thee.
22 But if thou shalt forbear to vow, it shall be no sin in theeSo ... do all you can and trust in God regarding your marriage. I hope a scroll of Matthew 19 is found that's not in greek. I do think that there was influence in the translation of kjv twards divorce.0 -
A friendly reminder to read the forum guidelines even though this whole thread often evades them. Set a good example and all that stuff. Forum Guidelines - Logos Forums
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Dave L said:
https://lmf12.files.wordpress.com/2014/08/divorce_aug_2014.pdf This is a free indepth study by Leslie McFall covering all of the above in great detail.
Tremendous exegesis of this topic. Much appreciated.
I just downloaded the PDF so I haven’t yet searched it but am very curious about his ultimate conclusion regarding the remarriage of the innocent party?
I.E., in his view is said remarriage considered ongoing adultery or is the innocent party free to remarry?
As we all know this is not a peripheral issue & has caused more internal division than any other topic I can think of off hand.
We are *RIGHT NOW* dealing with the ugliness of an affair within the church I pastor....and we (wife and I) had to be the ones to tell the innocent lady what was going on😡😭.
Interesting thread posts.
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David Staveley said:
Secondly, εἰ μή does not actually change the meaning of verse at all. εἰ used in conjunction with μή simply reinforces it as a marker of negation: "if not for this"; "excepting this only"; "notwithstanding this only"; etc. As such, it is difficult to work out why some scribal copyists have inserted it in the handful of manuscripts that have it, since putting it in or leaving it out, the meaning of the exception remains exactly the same:
Actually, I think that makes it very easy to understand why a scribe might inadvertently add the word εἰ. Imagine looking over at the manuscript you're copying - or hearing someone slowly read the text aloud at the front of the room - then taking a few seconds to write out what you just saw or heard. That kind of little verbal glitch, where you remember the meaning correctly but misremember exactly how it was said, is not surprising. Even if someone went back and checked the copyist's work, it would take an extremely careful copyeditor to catch that one.
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When copying... im sure they didn't do a book at a time before checking. Maybe a pair of sentences before checking when it's a long time scribe. They would have known that making changes might be held against them at judgment day. Accidentally leading the next generations astray because of a typo, im sure was feared.
What I'm looking for ... is if the same phrasing was translated differently from the same languages.
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When copying... im sure they didn't do a book at a time before checking. Maybe a pair of sentences before checking when it's a long time scribe. They would have known that making changes might be held against them at judgment day. Accidentally leading the next generations astray because of a typo, im sure was feared.
What I'm looking for ... is if the same phrasing was translated differently from the same languages.
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When copying... im sure they didn't do a book at a time before checking. Maybe a pair of sentences before checking when it's a long time scribe. They would have known that making changes might be held against them at judgment day. Accidentally leading the next generations astray because of a typo, im sure was feared.
What I'm looking for ... is if the same phrasing was translated differently from the same languages.
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Mike Durkin said:
When copying... im sure they didn't do a book at a time before checking. Maybe a pair of sentences before checking when it's a long time scribe. They would have known that making changes might be held against them at judgment day. Accidentally leading the next generations astray because of a typo, im sure was feared.
I'm sure they were quite careful and took the job of copying God's word very seriously. But we know that they made mistakes in copying from time to time - otherwise, the critical apparatuses we have wouldn't be as long as they are. And most of the textual variants have little if any impact on the meaning of a verse or the way it's translated into English. I don't think that's surprising. The big mistakes are going to be easier to catch. It's the little ones, that don't change the meaning of a verse, that are more likely to slip by.
Of course, it is possible that a copyist intentionally added a word to the text. But I find it easier to believe that a devout scribe made a simple mistake than that he or she made a deliberate decision to alter God's word.
(Of course, there are other possibilities. They could have thought they were correcting a prior copyist's error if they believed the grammar and context demanded an εἰ. But that would not have been a decision they would have taken lightly.)
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Hi Mj. Smith could you please explain the apparatus to someone who doesn't know greek and how these things go? What is the conclusion we should draw regarding how to interpret Matthew 19? it's not clear to me. Please explain. Thank you.
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Hi Mj. Smith could you please explain the apparatus to someone who doesn't know greek and how these things go? What is the conclusion we should draw regarding how to interpret Matthew 19? it's not clear to me. Please explain. Thank you.
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Could you explain this in simpler terms. I don't think I'm understanding the conclusion.
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