Bringing Your BibleWorks User Content to Logos
Comments
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Paul said:Beloved said:
I am not a BW user but i applaud FL leadership in this arena.
I very much agree - its good leadership. Its also makes financial sense for Faithlife to encourage BW users across. Keep well Paul
I agree too. I don't use BW, but this strikes me as a very responsible way for FaithLife to help address the needs of a significant number of their customers.
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John Goodman said:
Notes aside, what about the idea of high resolution off-line manuscripts? can we get those in logos?
Probably a conversation for another thread.
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Phil, I started another thread but you haven't engaged it? It's something I'd love to buy! It's not entirely off topic because this is one of the distinctive features Bibleworks users will want;)
If BibleWorks users are reading this and want to know how powerfully Logos already covers this see the video here: https://www.logos.com/product/54916/septuagint-manuscript-explorer (What I'm enquiring about is offline and therefore faster viewing.)
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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John Goodman said:
I started another thread but you haven't engaged it? It's something I'd love to buy!
I follow only a few forums and miss lots of threads. Sorry. Can you point me to your other thread?
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
We are working on one or more packages for BibleWorks users who might be looking to move to Logos. We would heavily discount them to make them as affordable as possible and minimize the sting of repurchasing content in another platform.
Is there an estimated timeframe for when Logos packages for BW users might be offered? Accordance has already released a few options.
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Anthony Lipscomb said:
Is there an estimated timeframe for when Logos packages for BW users might be offered? Accordance has already released a few options.
We're aiming for Friday.
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:John Goodman said:
I started another thread but you haven't engaged it? It's something I'd love to buy!
I follow only a few forums and miss lots of threads. Sorry. Can you point me to your other thread?
Hi Phil
John is probably referring to https://community.logos.com/forums/t/169917.aspx
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I know many in the BibleWorks' community will appreciate Faith Life and Accordance looking into how to assist users.
The closure of BibleWorks does highlight one of the dangers with digital libraries. I own a license for HALOT/BDAG for use in BibleWorks. Unlike the book (which I also own), I don't own the content (the difference between a license and ownership) and the license is not portable to other digital programs even though it costs hundreds of dollars.
I don't think Faith Life / Logos or Accordance has much leverage in these situations with the publishers. But the Accordance packages, to cross grade to their platform for original language research tools similar to core BibleWorks and add in HALOT/BDAG is cost prohibitive to many. If publishers made content licenses portable it would take a lot of the risk and sting out of these situations. And this is not a unique situation (it has happened in the other medias such as music, movies, and games in the past) and even if a company is strong for a couple decades (I have used BW for 20 years) doesn't mean they will always be solvent.
Personally, I have been looking at the Logos content. The customizable layouts look great and their tools have really come a long way since the last time I used Logos. You guys have a great product. When I had to call support many years ago your staff were fantastic and Michael Heiser has always been a great host when I visited (non-Logos activity). I am certain whatever you guys come up with will bless some BW users who now need a digital Bible study home. The idea of migrating is painful for many, though, as items like HALOT are not only expensive (short term expense) it feels like you are signing up for a second go-around on the digital license merry-go-round.
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Welcome Joshua! [:)]
I like the idea of portability very much, but the current model is not conducive to that. To use a similar rationale in a different context: I can’t buy a coke at McDonalds and get a free refill at Burger King. In the case of simple ebooks, there is a cost to hosting the site and development of the software. That is rolled up into the purchase price... but not from one store to another. Sales of Nook books don’t support the development of Kobo books, etc. In the case of Logos, it is even more complicated since they convert the books and add features and tagging.
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Not a discussion for here but I don't think the analogy works when comparing consumables with content ownership. The shift from content ownership to licenses to software as services has been gradual and is a business model these industries have adopted (and not without explicit examples of anti-consumer backdoor dealings, e.g. Apple and the big publishers). I work in business and understand that frequently product is sold below cost as profits are spread across the entire product (very common in production environments where a small loss on 90% volume business, offset but larger margins on the other 10%, is necessary as that 90% sold at a loss is better than not selling that 90% at all!) I cannot know if the tagging of HALOT/BDAG is a loss leader covered up by the "digitizing team" or if it is $50/per copy sold to date (and ever decreasing as it is a sunk cost).
My only intent was to comment on how the closure of BibleWorks, and its relation to digital content, is painful. I wasn't criticizing Faith Life / Logos. But I guess I wasn't expecting being "told" how it is. I know how it is--Brill Academic primarily sells to the libraries with limited distributions and their products are very expensive. And there is no incentive to offer license portability. It is their model, but as a consumer it is painful. Just as it was painful when I was working on my thesis that Angelomorphic Christology was over $200 with Brill Academic but is now $40 through Baylor University Press. Same book and content, different business model and accessibility. Life isn't fair and I intended no slight to Logos.
I for one look forward to hearing what their plans are. I plan to use BibleWorks for a while (still a great program) but it is obvious at some point I will need to move on as I hope, the Lord willing, I have at least another 30 years of labor ahead in the word. Maybe Logos will have some cross packages that are too good to be true and resist. Even if they have nothing to offer (totally understandable for which they need make no excuse) Logos is a good company with a very good product and I think it is a benefit to believers in general.
That said what is happening right now in the Bible software space does bring a focus on, from a consumer perspective, the pain of losing access to content when the digital content cost as much as the paper copy (I paid less for HALOT hard copy than I did for the digital edition). For those affected it does influence how they feel about re-investing in digital libraries. It does for me, at least.
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Joshua Luna said:
it feels like you are signing up for a second go-around on the digital license merry-go-round.
Hi Joshua,
I am reassured by the fact that I can switch off my internet connection and Logos works 99% the same as it does with it on. I understand that the concordance feature may be affected if off line.
The content might be licensed but to all intents and purposes the software (and resources) will work as long as I maintain the machine to use it on.
Like many I have a good collection of CDs - they would still work if the only CD players we own weren't built into the care or stored in their boxes in the attic. Unfortunately pointing this out in another conversation with my wife left me with the job of packing up the CDs and storing them with the player.
Give it a couple of years an they too will be transferred to the tip.
The point being that something better and more comprehensive and more convenient shoved the old CD aside and that is likely to be what happens with our existing investment in Logos resources. It won't be the company that folds it will be us consumers.
tootle pip
Mike
How to get logs and post them.(now tagging post-apocalyptic fiction as current affairs) Latest Logos, MacOS, iOS and iPadOS
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Mike Binks said:
I understand that the concordance feature may be affected if off line.
Actually the Concordance feature works fine offline - some other features (such as Fuzzy Bible Search) do require an Internet connection
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Mark Ward has written a helpful blog post relating to this at https://blog.logos.com/2018/06/use-logos-like-bibleworks-pro/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LogosBibleSoftwareBlog+%28Logos+Bible+Software+Blog%29
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
We are working on a tool that will allow you to import your BibleWorks notes and some other user content into Logos.
Oh, the irony!! Customers of a competing software package can import their notes into Logos, but I can't import my L3 notes into L7. So much for brand-loyal customer support!
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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David Paul said:
Customers of a competing software package can import their notes into Logos, but I can't import my L3 notes into L7
Libronix notes can be imported into Logos 7.
And I know there are specific Libronix notes features that are important to you but not available in Logos 7 but that's a different issue.
Unless I am missing your point.
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I'm grateful to find this thread and Mark Ward's post on the blog about this.
I appreciate knowing that some form of importer will bring in my thousands of notes to Logos.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
How much would you be willing to pay to have your notes and highlights from an old Bible transferred? What if the book was damaged or destroyed in the process?
I paid my kids to do it for me. They got to read my Bible notes, and I got my notes transferred. [:D] Well at least the ones they could read [:O]
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Blessings in Christ.
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When I read this, I immediately looked for the "retweet" button. Oh well...
In any case, well said. Quite ironic.
-Donnie
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David Paul said:
Oh, the irony!! Customers of a competing software package can import their notes into Logos, but I can't import my L3 notes into L7. So much for brand-loyal customer support!
David, here's how to import your Libronix notes on a Windows computer:
https://www.logos.com/support/logos5/import-logos30 -
I appreciate this reply and will attempt to follow the instructions when I have opportunity, however, I have imported L3 notes in the past but that ability seemed to dissolve around the time the L3 server was taken down. I would love to be wrong about this. Thanks for the hope and I will post my result.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Adam Borries (Faithlife) said:
David, here's how to import your Libronix notes on a Windows computer:
https://www.logos.com/support/logos5/import-logos3Bradley had promised the Bellingham judge that all links between Libby (aka Libronix Inc) and the later incarnation of ... not-Libby ... had been severed. I think physically with the destruction of the server. This may well be as pleasant a surprise as a major Bible software developer tossing it all for the ministry (there has to be some nice irony there).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Phil Gons (Faithlife) said:
How much would you be willing to pay to have your notes and highlights from an old Bible transferred? What if the book was damaged or destroyed in the process?
These are good questions to consider. I don't really have a good answer.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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David Paul said:
but that ability seemed to dissolve around the time the L3 server was taken down
Denise said:Bradley had promised the Bellingham judge that all links between Libby (aka Libronix Inc) and the later incarnation of ... not-Libby ... had been severed. I think physically with the destruction of the server.
I promised … huh … what? Never mind, it’s not important.
The Libronix servers are no longer operational, but import notes is a completely offline operation that only depends on Logos 7 finding your Libronix DLS note files in My Documents\Libronix DLS\Annotations. As far as I know, all the Libronix DLS import code is still present and working fine. Please let us know if you encounter any import problems and upload log files (they will be very helpful).
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Oopsy-doopsy ... someone (me) forgot the obvious. You work late, Mr Grainger. Thank you.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I have been a BibleWorks user since 2000 and, so, was quite sad to learn of its. I am obviously quite invested in the program, both financially and in terms of the sheer amount of time I have spent in the program. Although I have had a license for Logos for a few years now, I am only now starting to make use of the program in earnest. Logos will replace BibleWorks in my work flow. One BibleWorks feature that I have found to be indispensable over the years is the Report Generator. For those of you who are familiar with BibleWorks, is this something that can duplicated in Logos? I know that I can find the same information in Logos (the "Word By Word" feature), but I cannot find a way to format this information in manner in which I have grown accustomed.
Please forgive me if this post is off-topic. I need some help with this and this seemed like to most likely place to post.
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Hi Mark - and welcome to the forums.
Mark Fuss said:One BibleWorks feature that I have found to be indispensable over the years is the Report Generator. For those of you who are familiar with BibleWorks, is this something that can duplicated in Logos?
I don't know what this does - but if you can outline it we can think about options.
Might be best to start a new thread on this
Graham
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I can imagine that there may be a lot of BibleWorks questions. Maybe create a BibleWorks section in the forums, and call it something like "BibleWorks Users". This way all questions relating to Logos for users of BibleWorks would be funneled to one forum section. Just a suggestion.
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