Typos & Formatting Errors in Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible by Emanuel Tov
I'm grateful to finally have Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible in Logos. I imagine that it's been a challenge to format properly. That said, I'm already finding many typos and other formatting omissions/errors.
For example, how many typos can you find involving the interchange of ט/ש in the paragraph with the heading b. 4QJerd: Jer 43:2–10 on page 293? In addition, who is this fellow who goes by the name of מטה (occurring 4x on pp. 119, 123)?
As an example of a formatting omission, compare the text on page 123 in both the print and Logos editions. You should find that the print edition uses larger font sizes to draw attention to variant units (e.g., within words) whereas the Logos edition does not.
Feel free to list any other significant problems that you find in this thread.
Comments
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The amount of typos is unbelievable. I reported about 10 and then I stopped. ד and ר interchange in almost every other word. Here are but a few examples:
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David Knoll said:
The amount of typos is unbelievable. I reported about 10 and then I stopped. ד and ר interchange in almost every other word.
Thanks, David. It doesn't help Faithlife's argument for the superior quality of Logos Editions (not to mention some of their databases that need a lot of work). I covered the interchanges of ט and ש that I could find with wildcard searches, along with several others. The one's you found are likely even more abundant. Whether the text comes from Faithlife or the publisher, it seems like a serious quality control problem.
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Thank you for the report. We'll look into this immediately.
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Kyle G. Anderson said:
Thank you for the report. We'll look into this immediately.
Thanks, Kyle. I greatly appreciate it!
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Adam Olean said:Kyle G. Anderson said:
Thank you for the report. We'll look into this immediately.
Thanks, Kyle. I greatly appreciate it!
I forgot to mention two things:
- My sincere apologies. I'm disappointed in the output of this and am looking into how the breakdown occurred.
- Adjusting font size within a Hebrew word: unfortunately this isn't something we currently support in Hebrew right now. We run into a similar problem in grammars when the print might use alternate formatting how vowel points might change in various forms of a lemma.
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Kyle G. Anderson said:
I forgot to mention two things:
- My sincere apologies. I'm disappointed in the output of this and am looking into how the breakdown occurred.
- Adjusting font size within a Hebrew word: unfortunately this isn't something we currently support in Hebrew right now. We run into a similar problem in grammars when the print might use alternate formatting how vowel points might change in various forms of a lemma.
Thanks again, Kyle. I know from prior experience that you and your colleagues always take care of such problems. This one is definitely the exception, not the rule. This book's complex formatting and ubiquitous use of pointed and unpointed Hebrew along with other diacritical markings provides ample opportunity for errors. It's probably a good test case!
I recall some of those discussions about Hebrew in the past. Does this also apply to unpointed Hebrew? If not, I'd understand why you might want to avoid inconsistent formatting. Let's throw more robust support for Hebrew formatting on the wishlist for Logos 8, 9, 10, ... or preferably sooner than later!
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Look on the bright side: The book as it is could serve as an excellent exercise for textual criticism students. "Find all the variants between Tov's Fortress edition and his Logos edition and categorise them according to their origin"
[;)]
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Hahaha! I had the exact same thought.
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David Knoll said:
Look on the bright side: The book as it is could serve as an excellent exercise for textual criticism students. "Find all the variants between Tov's Fortress edition and his Logos edition and categorise them according to their origin"
The thought had crossed my mind ... [:D]
Now Faithlife will have to maintain two editions to satisfy everyone.
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They're still working on fixing this issue but they can no longer sell this book! https://community.logos.com/forums/t/173648.aspx
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I'm hoping we will get notified when it is fixed?
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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John Goodman said:
I'm hoping we will get notified when it is fixed?
It should just download to your computer. You'll see a recent Last Updated date on it. Maybe Kyle will post something here.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Yes. I'll post something here. I'm targeting the 30th.
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Kyle G. Anderson said:
Yes. I'll post something here. I'm targeting the 30th.
That’s pretty fast. Thanks, Kyle.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Mark Smith said:John Goodman said:
I'm hoping we will get notified when it is fixed?
It should just download to your computer. You'll see a recent Last Updated date on it. Maybe Kyle will post something here.
Where do you see the recent updates/downloads on L8?
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David Knoll said:
Where do you see the recent updates/downloads on L8?
Using the "Last Updated" or "Added" facets in the Library
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1. Thank You!
2. Is there a way to have a shortcut for this on my Dashboard in a manner similar to L7?
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David Knoll said:
Where do you see the recent updates/downloads on L8?
You can also switch to Details view, add the Last Updated column, then sort it in reverse order. (This is the same as L7.)
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David Knoll said:
Where do you see the recent updates/downloads on L8?
You can also switch to Details view, add the Last Updated column, then sort it in reverse order. (This is the same as L7.)
In L7 I had something like this:
Can I achieve the same display in L8?
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No, that isn’t available in L8
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Graham Criddle said:
No, that isn’t available in L8
Thank you! Obviously it takes time to get used to something new.
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Mark Smith said:Kyle G. Anderson said:
Yes. I'll post something here. I'm targeting the 30th.
That’s pretty fast. Thanks, Kyle.
As of this morning, it's looking like we'll be done on October 31st. If all goes well I'll publish the update then.
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Kyle G. Anderson said:
As of this morning, it's looking like we'll be done on October 31st. If all goes well I'll publish the update then.
[Y] Thanks for keeping us up-to-date.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Kyle G. Anderson said:
Yes. I'll post something here. I'm targeting the 30th.
Have the issues with this resource been addressed?
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.4 1TB SSD
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Beloved said:Kyle G. Anderson said:
Yes. I'll post something here. I'm targeting the 30th.
Have the issues with this resource been addressed?
Darn! I just logged on proud of myself to give an update without being prompted and you beat me to it.
The work was finished last night and I took a look at it today and found something else I wanted fixed so its undergoing that change. Thankfully its very minor. I'll let you know when we release it. It'll be days, not weeks.
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We've gotten the typos fixed and are planning on pushing the update out on Monday.
Adam Olean said:I'm grateful to finally have Textual Criticism of the Hebrew Bible in Logos. I imagine that it's been a challenge to format properly. That said, I'm already finding many typos and other formatting omissions/errors.
For example, how many typos can you find involving the interchange of ט/ש in the paragraph with the heading b. 4QJerd: Jer 43:2–10 on page 293? In addition, who is this fellow who goes by the name of מטה (occurring 4x on pp. 119, 123)?
As an example of a formatting omission, compare the text on page 123 in both the print and Logos editions. You should find that the print edition uses larger font sizes to draw attention to variant units (e.g., within words) whereas the Logos edition does not.
Feel free to list any other significant problems that you find in this thread.
Adam, I've been double checking the reported typos this morning and some of your comments made me laugh out loud (e.g. "This is not Tov/good!") Well played and thank you for that!
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Correction: The update will be pushed out tomorrow, November 13th.
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Kyle G. Anderson said:
Correction: The update will be pushed out tomorrow, November 13th.
The corrected resource is much improved. Nevertheless, I managed to find 15-20 more typos through a cursory reading of the Hebrew examples. I reported most of them.
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That is appalling! Can we get someone competent on this? Sorry, harsher than necessary. I'm really disappointed, how can I trust this book? I've waited a long time to get this in Logos format... I think it is totally reasonable to expect better from faithlife. Please fix this quickly.
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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David Knoll said:Kyle G. Anderson said:
Correction: The update will be pushed out tomorrow, November 13th.
The corrected resource is much improved. Nevertheless, I managed to find 15-20 more typos through a cursory reading of the Hebrew examples. I reported most of them.
I apologize. I'll take a look and follow up with the team.
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update?
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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John Goodman said:
update?
Good timing. I just logged in to pass along that we pushed out an update 5 minutes ago.
Thank you for your patience on this.
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Kyle G. Anderson said:John Goodman said:
update?
Good timing. I just logged in to pass along that we pushed out an update 5 minutes ago.
Thank you for your patience on this.
Good news is that the many graphic interchanges of similar characters seem to be gone (I cannot guarantee 100%, but from what I can see by a cursory look).
Bad news is that many Hebrew examples show some sort of word order problem. It may be related to the brackets or curly brackets inside the line. Part of the sentence is shifted to the left or to the right and the text becomes incomprehensible. I reported most of these cases I think.
Another problem relates to the long examples in chapter 7. Where two long texts are juxtaposed, the matching words should be placed one on top of the other. There are shifts there and someone should have a look at that (I reported several such cases). These examples where set this way to assist the student in identifying the differences between the versions. I reported some of these imperfections.
Last but not least, formatting has a meaning in this book and as far as I can tell, the Hebrew text is never italicised in the Logos edition, even in places like table 1 on page 289ff where Tov explicitly refers to this formatting "This table presents Jeremiah 27 in parallel lines: the reconstructed Hebrew source of 𝕲* in the first line and 𝕸 in the second line in italics". I reported some (apparent) formatting errors of this kind.
All in all I reported about 25 corrections.
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David Knoll said:Kyle G. Anderson said:John Goodman said:
update?
Good timing. I just logged in to pass along that we pushed out an update 5 minutes ago.
Thank you for your patience on this.
Good news is that the many graphic interchanges of similar characters seem to be gone (I cannot guarantee 100%, but from what I can see by a cursory look).
Bad news is that many Hebrew examples show some sort of word order problem. It may be related to the brackets or curly brackets inside the line. Part of the sentence is shifted to the left or to the right and the text becomes incomprehensible. I reported most of these cases I think.
Another problem relates to the long examples in chapter 7. Where two long texts are juxtaposed, the matching words should be placed one on top of the other. There are shifts there and someone should have a look at that (I reported several such cases). These examples where set this way to assist the student in identifying the differences between the versions. I reported some of these imperfections.
Last but not least, formatting has a meaning in this book and as far as I can tell, the Hebrew text is never italicised in the Logos edition, even in places like table 1 on page 289ff where Tov explicitly refers to this formatting "This table presents Jeremiah 27 in parallel lines: the reconstructed Hebrew source of 𝕲* in the first line and 𝕸 in the second line in italics". I reported some (apparent) formatting errors of this kind.
All in all I reported about 25 corrections.
Thanks David. I really appreciate it.
I'm looking at these this morning and I'm realizing some of these are due to limitations in our rendering abilities. Lining things up in print is a different order than a dynamic screen. I think there are a few things at play that don't have to do with how we coded the text itself. I'm going to do a little research and see if there are any simple fixes we could implement immediately.
Also: how are you viewing the text? I haven't checked all of your italic examples but I'm on a PC and they've all been in italics. I'm wondering if there is a rendering issue at hand.
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Alignment: maybe you could insert the two texts into a table?
Italics: I am on a mac. Do you see the Hebrew text in italics? I only reported the Hebrew text In Hebrew characters.
Should this turn out to be a rendering problem, I can report there is no Hebrew italic text in this resource on iOS as well.
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David Knoll said:
Alignment: maybe you could insert the two texts into a table?
Italics: I am on a mac. Do you see the Hebrew text in italics? I only reported the Hebrew text In Hebrew characters.
Should this turn out to be a rendering problem, I can report there is no Hebrew italic text in this resource on iOS as well.
Thanks! This is what I needed to know. No need to report any more italics issues. I've got enough to go on.
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Is this complete? Hard to feel it can be trusted to be accurate! Not owning a paper copy to compare it with,
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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John Goodman said:
Is this complete? Hard to feel it can be trusted to be accurate! Not owning a paper copy to compare it with,
Yes. I'm going to be reviewing some possible formatting changes--to be clear this is an attempt to work within limitations of a dynamic medium as opposed to a static page--but beyond that to the best of my knowledge he typos have been fixed. The development team is also working on an iOS fix but that extends beyond this resource.
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