Liturgy of the Hours/Breviary for Verbum??

This is one of our most requested resources, and it's something we would love to include in Verbum. It would be a large and complicated project to build the Breviary into the platform, so there is no timeline about when this will happen.

Kevin Clemens

This would be at the top of my most wanted resources, especially if the Latin of the Liturgia Horarum were included.

A book such as Fr. Devin's excellent resource on the Sacraments, Fulfilled in Christ, would become that much more powerful in Verbum, since it cites Second Readings from the Office of Readings extensively, but does not contain the full texts. One can use iBreviary or other sources to track down the texts in either Latin or English, but to have it fully integrated would be a great boon.

I know this has been requested before, but is there any chance we will get the Breviary/Liturgy of the Hours for Verbum?

Some years ago, the US English four-volume LotH and the full Latin edition were all listed together as a Pre-Pub that ended up being culled for lack of interest, so the next attempt needs to be planned out well. (iBreviary and similar apps cut into demand somewhat.) It's worth noting that a new English translation of the Liturgy of the Hours is being worked on by the relevant authorities, publication date unknown.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1005997#Comment_1005997

This is one of our most requested resources, and it's something we would love to include in Verbum. It would be a large and complicated project to build the Breviary into the platform, so there is no timeline about when this will happen.

Thanks so much for the response. By no means do I mean to sound disrespectful, but if Faithlife really wanted to make (which I believe they do) such a distinctive and "top" Catholic Study Software/Application, shouldn't this be a high priority item/project? After all, outside of the Mass, this is the daily Prayer of the Church.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1006167#Comment_1006167

After all, outside of the Mass, this is the daily Prayer of the Church.

Yes, the official Catholic daily prayer that most Catholics know nothing about, and hardly any pray.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1006207#Comment_1006207

After all, outside of the Mass, this is the daily Prayer of the Church.

Yes, the official Catholic daily prayer that most Catholics know nothing about, and hardly any pray.

That doesn't take away from it's importance and beauty! And, since Verbum is also a tool of evangelism, incorporating it into the software would also give those ignorant of it exposure to it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1006211#Comment_1006211

After all, outside of the Mass, this is the daily Prayer of the Church.
Yes, the official Catholic daily prayer that most Catholics know nothing about, and hardly any pray.
That doesn't take away from it's importance and beauty! And, since Verbum is also a tool of evangelism, incorporating it into the software would also give those ignorant of it exposure to it.

I completely agree. The trouble is that often a business case has to be made for producing things, especially expensive ones.

EDIT: I should note that Eastern Catholics do not use LotH.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1006211#Comment_1006211

Chris,

I hear your passion! I will be overjoyed the day we can have a breviary in Verbum. There are a lot of Catholics (and non-Catholics!) who want to participate in traditional prayer and learn to pray the daily office, and I agree that incorporating it into the software would expose it to new people and make it more accessible.

Please keep the suggestions coming. The powerful search and linking tools within Verbum mean that it takes us time to put new resources on the platform, but we share your desire for a Verbum breviary.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1006146#Comment_1006146

I remember back in 2000 being told at a catholic book store not to waste my money because a new edition was being worked on. While I am sure it is I have no idea when it will be done and certainly stopped holding my breath a long time ago. Liturgy of the Hours like the full New Jerusalem Bible desperately needs to be part of Verbum but I do not see either coming, while LOTH may be a more specialiced item if FL valued them they would be done. Smyth & Helwys Bible Commentary Collection (34 vols.) never even made it half way through PrePub yer it is being developed after being thrown into the higher end base packages. Had NJB or the breviary been added to Verbum bronze and above I would bet we could have had both. But it obviously is not a priority with the right people. I do realize that currently both this mentioned projects have issues In that There are 2 official office sets for the English speaking world and currently it is only NA rights full NJB is being pursued by FL. But it is a start. I find it very frustrating when some items get special treatment while other items that feel more important are languishing in PrePub or simply not even offered..

-Dan

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1006233#Comment_1006233

Chris,

I hear your passion! I will be overjoyed the day we can have a breviary in Verbum. There are a lot of Catholics (and non-Catholics!) who want to participate in traditional prayer and learn to pray the daily office, and I agree that incorporating it into the software would expose it to new people and make it more accessible.

Please keep the suggestions coming. The powerful search and linking tools within Verbum mean that it takes us time to put new resources on the platform, but we share your desire for a Verbum breviary.

I would be happy if the Breviary was released with minimal tagging, just whatever could be automated - like any scripture verses, at least then I could pray with it daily. I pray it daily, I am not sure how many direct user links there would be any way, although I can understand it would be nice for breviary entries to show up because they are tagged, in some of the guides, etc.

As it is now I use another tool, but I would love to consolidate it into Verbum. FL has done minimal tagging in the past, then tag it further over time. That's much better than not having it at all. BTW, the one tool I use on my iPad, it shows number of people concurrently praying with the tool, and every hour I have been in there, there are 500 -1200 people using it to pray at any one time. What FL may want to consider is a robust Catholic Bible tool that offers the breviary, it may incentivize Catholic clergy to use it - they are using other tools now. I agree it's hard to promote Verbum as "the" Catholic tool without the daily prayer of the Church.

Deacon Steve

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1006320#Comment_1006320

[Y] Deacon Don

F. Kelly Dougherty

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1006344#Comment_1006344

I'm a layman who bought the four volume LotH decades ago and has used Universalis is the past few years. I would love to have the LotH integrated into Verbum.

Craig St. Clair (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1006758#Comment_1006758

Hearing all of this loud and clear. This is easily one of the top requested resources for Verbum. I too would love to have the Liturgy of the Hours in Verbum, to go along with my daily morning Lectio.

I will be revisiting the possibility of offering the Liturgy of the Hours in Verbum. It is a large and technically difficult resource to process and, before I came on board, Verbum had started to walk down this road.

Stay tuned....

Don Awalt

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1006838#Comment_1006838

Thanks Craig! Maybe we can help - maybe we can crowdsource some of the effort - and/or some of the clergy on here would help I am sure (I would).

Craig St. Clair (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1006856#Comment_1006856

Crowdsourcing is one possibility (and thank you for the offer!). I think you're right Don, others would likely be willing to help too.

Another possibility, not mutually exclusive, is working on the text in stages. Minimal processing first and then a timeline for completion of various other features and functionality over time. That way you all get a minimally functional text faster.

Kevin Clemens

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1007621#Comment_1007621

I think you're right Don, others would likely be willing to help too.

Likewise, I would be very interested in helping bring this to fruition.

Craig - this would be great. Having just the bare text itself in Verbum would be a great start, if simply for the ability to run searches on the full text of the LH from within the software.

Patrick Fleischmann

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1006758#Comment_1006758

I too am just an average Catholic in the pew and have no other liturgical role or function at my parish. I bought the four volume LotH decades ago as well in order to follow along with the brothers on EWTN. (It's very frustrating to learn how to do LotH if you're trying to figure it out on your own.) But I've used Universalis the past few years as well, since it's easier to carry around in the iPad I'm already schlepping everywhere. Now that Universalis supports Car Play and has an audio option I'm back to listening along on the way to work. But I would certainly welcome the ability to have it "launch" me into further study in my Verbum library - particularly based on the second reading.

Logos didn't start out targeting Catholics to my knowledge, but they had something for us decades ago. I bought it on floppy disks. But about 2001 I switched to a Mac and Accordance was the only game going there. Now I have both. But all new purchases will be Verbum for now because there is so much more specific Catholic content there at the moment. However, an earlier poster was correct. You can't really be THE Catholic library software without the universal prayer of the Church. It's just that simple. You might be the "best available option" but you aren't THE ROMAN CATHOLIC library. To put it in the vernacular, you're sort of just a "poser" LOL.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1007892#Comment_1007892

Any news on this?

Thanks.

Eduardo Espiritu

For the last five years a new English language edition of the Liturgy of the Hours has been almost released. It is still almost released so I anticipate two years at the earliest. Here is an announcement from the USCCB. http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgy-of-the-hours/liturgy-of-the-hours-second-edition.cfm

The Latin is certainly available should demand justify its being licensed. For the English, I think a print publisher has been selected (just a rumor, can't find a source for that). I don't know if electronic rights are being offered at all.

Licensing the current 4 volume translation, not to mention adding links and electronic bookmarks just doesn't make business sense. It may be replace real soon, now.

The list of readings and psalms for each day are available for someone who wants to make a person book, but the other prayers and comments are copyright.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1063460#Comment_1063460

Licensing the current 4 volume translation, not to mention adding links and electronic bookmarks just doesn't make business sense. It may be replace real soon, now.

Often it is important to have old versions for historical comparisons and to fill-in the gaps for resources created when the version was the mandated version.

Patrick Fleischmann

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1063469#Comment_1063469

While I greatly respect your opinions on matters such as these, I can tell you that based on what we've already been told regarding the expense to FL to "verbumize" the LOTH what you're suggesting here is simply not going to happen. I have no doubt what you're saying about having old versions is true. But the simple answer is we already have the old version - on paper and digitally in Universalis. Given the expense, we'll still be LUCKY if FL actually "verbumizes" the NEW LOTH. Just forget the existing one ever getting that treatment now. Cue the first President George Bush "NOT GONNA HAPPEN"

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1063469#Comment_1063469

Licensing the current 4 volume translation, not to mention adding links and electronic bookmarks just doesn't make business sense. It may be replace real soon, now.

Often it is important to have old versions for historical comparisons and to fill-in the gaps for resources created when the version was the mandated version.

Perhaps I’m mistaken, but I expect that permissions for the old LOTH will be removed when the new edition comes out, similar to what happened to the NAB when the NABRE came out. If that’s the case, it’s probably not worth it to FL to make an electronic version of the current one.

I’d be happy to be proven wrong though. iBreviary works for now, but I’d rather have LOTH get the Verbum treatment.

Craig St. Clair (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1063545#Comment_1063545

I am in the process of working out the licensing for both the current and future LOTH editions. It is worthwhile for Verbum to have both the current and future editions.

The LOTH isn't as simple as "licensing a book." The four-volume LOTH is a patchwork of several different licensing agreements with different rights holders. We've managed to work out licensing for some, but not all--and the outstanding agreements are in progress right now.

Once the licensing is secured will begin development work.

Stay tuned....

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1063558#Comment_1063558

I stand corrected then. Good to know youre working on this 👍

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1063560#Comment_1063560

That's great news!

It sounds quite strange that LOTH is licensed at all.

Is there any chance to have it in Spanish too?

Thanks!

Patrick Fleischmann

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1063558#Comment_1063558

Well, I stand corrected. Happily corrected I might add. Sometimes you guys completely surprise me (sometimes good and sometimes bad LOL)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1063563#Comment_1063563

That's great news!

It sounds quite strange that LOTH is licensed at all.

Is there any chance to have it in Spanish too?

Thanks!

if I remember rightly, the Church requires some things to be licensed to ensure that there are no unauthorized changes to the text. As for Spanish, that’s probably a different license under a different bishops conference. (I recall that the English version is for US/UK.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1063567#Comment_1063567

if I remember rightly, the Church requires some things to be licensed to ensure that there are no unauthorized changes to the text

But according to Craig there are different right holders. And I think any bishop could stamp his 'nihil obstat' without any further licensing.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1063568#Comment_1063568

if I remember rightly, the Church requires some things to be licensed to ensure that there are no unauthorized changes to the text

But according to Craig there are different right holders. And I think any bishop could stamp his 'nihil obstat' without any further licensing.

ok, I’m not an expert here, but this is my understanding: The bishops conferences and the ICEL approve the permissions for official use in a country. This is what I was referring to. There are other rightsholders for song lyrics, translations, more modern writings for the Second Reading of the Office of Readings, the Scripture translations, etc. For translation outside of English, I imagine these would have different rightsholders and a whole new set of issues.

if I’m mistaken, hopefully someone here will correct me.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1063571#Comment_1063571

Regarding Scripture translations, I hope the resource links to our favourite bible, just like the daily readings.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1063573#Comment_1063573

Regarding Scripture translations, I hope the resource links to our favourite bible, just like the daily readings.

I’d be very surprised if that happens. As I understand it, it’s like the Lectionary. The reading is what’s been approved for liturgical use.

Again, not an expert here. I could be wrong.

Nick Steffen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1063460#Comment_1063460

Here is an update on the LOTH SE work: https://tomsdigest.wordpress.com/2019/08/26/revised-liturgy-of-the-hours-what-do-we-know/?fbclid=IwAR1nM4PsOSaAMJpWDphlo5vEvWdprTE5mDxhz_lqcoWhJ8cRj87bGJb41C8

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1063575#Comment_1063575

Regarding Scripture translations, I hope the resource links to our favourite bible, just like the daily readings.
I’d be very surprised if that happens. As I understand it, it’s like the Lectionary. The reading is what’s been approved for liturgical use.
Again, not an expert here. I could be wrong.

David, you are correct.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1063558#Comment_1063558

I am in the process of working out the licensing for both the current and future LOTH editions. It is worthwhile for Verbum to have both the current and future editions.

The LOTH isn't as simple as "licensing a book." The four-volume LOTH is a patchwork of several different licensing agreements with different rights holders. We've managed to work out licensing for some, but not all--and the outstanding agreements are in progress right now.

Once the licensing is secured will begin development work.

Stay tuned....

Any advance on this, Craig?

Thanks.

Donovan R. Palmer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1073293#Comment_1073293

I am interested in this as well... and I highly suspect that it would be a hit!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1076750#Comment_1076750

English: https://verbum.com/product/188341/the-liturgy-of-the-hours-according-to-the-roman-rite

Latin: https://verbum.com/product/198195/liturgia-horarum

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1126576#Comment_1126576

It's not shipping immediately at launch as we put the finishing touches on it, but I'm excited to announce that the English edition of the Liturgy of the Hours is available for American customers in Verbum 9 Gold and above.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1127402#Comment_1127402

Clarification - so if we already have Verbum Gold, we don't need to pre-order the Liturgy of the Hours, it will automatically be added to our library?

Dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1127402#Comment_1127402

It's not shipping immediately at launch as we put the finishing touches on it, but I'm excited to announce that the English edition of the Liturgy of the Hours is available for American customers in Verbum 9 Gold and above.

The USCCB is putting the finishing touches on the 2nd edition. Is Verbum already planning on releasing the 2nd edition when it is done?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1127548#Comment_1127548

If you own Verbum 9 Gold (or higher), then it will automatically be added to your library.

Note again that Liturgy of the Hours is only available for customers in America. The Latin Edition, when it's produced, will be available worldwide.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1127556#Comment_1127556

awesome! Thanks!

Kevin S. Coy, OFS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1127556#Comment_1127556

Just bought Platinum and it doesn't seem to have downloaded...at least I can't find it in my library.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1127716#Comment_1127716

Just bought Platinum and it doesn't seem to have downloaded...at least I can't find it in my library.

There were some problems with the resource as tested in beta so they may be delaying it by a few days. I've not heard anything about how long they expected the fix to take.

Kevin S. Coy, OFS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1127723#Comment_1127723

Thanks MJ.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1127716#Comment_1127716

Just bought Platinum and it doesn't seem to have downloaded...at least I can't find it in my library.

As I posted earlier, it's not shipping immediately at launch because we're putting finishing touches on it. Soon!

Kevin S. Coy, OFS

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1127739#Comment_1127739

D'oh! Missed that. My bad. Thanks....and thanks for the work on V9. I'm impressed with what little I've seen so far.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1127739#Comment_1127739

I know the finishing touches are still being worked on - but do you know if there will be a dashboard/home screen card available for it like the lectionary card?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1133085#Comment_1133085

I know the finishing touches are still being worked on - but do you know if there will be a dashboard/home screen card available for it like the lectionary card?

I’d like that. Put it next to my other initial devotions before I start studying for the morning

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1133085#Comment_1133085

I've seen no indication that a ordo/lectionary is being built for it