Need for Speed (mostly what this post is about) with a couple suggestions
Comments
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Based on my own experience on several computers, it really seems to me that something could be done to speed you up. I would add my voice to others that something can likely be done to make the difference you want. I would suggest getting started..first by uploading logs.
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phrogger said:
I'm going to find some time next week to submit to that process.
This sounds like "as a sheep to the slaughter"! 😂
I'd say it's NOT your hardware, but very possibly a configuration thing. Also, why don't you see if there's a noticeable difference by turning "Use Internet" to OFF in the program settings (you'll need to restart Logos). This won't solve everything, but if your connection is slow, there's a considerable difference in a number of areas when the application is looking for additional info on the FL servers.
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phrogger said:
Really? Is this the heavy graphics Logos is bogging down on? The (admittedly) pretty letters? Should great typography need to be slow?
It's certainly not the only factor. There are many ways in which Logos tries to do more than Accordance. Each of these adds a fraction of a second to the performing of certain tasks. They add up.
phrogger said:But when the "functionality" you offer causes your speed to lag in the most basic things (screen scrolls, double clicks, hovers, resource opening, etc.), you've chosen poorly. Or, at least you've made a design choice that I don't prefer (which is what I said in my initial post).
Again, as we've said repeatedly, and Bradley has recently emphasised, if you are experiencing small slowdowns in these areas (a tenth of a second?), that's relatively normal. It's how Logos works. But beachballs? No, something is wrong.
We're saying two things: Logos isn't instant, but Logos isn't slow.
phrogger said:I think 1 or 2 seconds is a problem when it comes to some things like scrolling, or right click even registering, or hovering for corresponding word.
Scrolling should not take 1 or 2 seconds.
Populating the right-click menu might take a few seconds in a Bible, but registering the click should be instant.
Hovering for corresponding words can be slow (1-3 seconds?), especially for words that have many search results. (Remember, depending on your settings, Logos will be highlighting every occurrence of that word, and every occurrence of the root, in every open Bible. If you've got four Bibles open, that up to 16 searches being carried out for every hover. And that feature's not even available in Accordance.
PS - When you send the logs, it would also be very helpful to have a screenshot of your layout, too.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
PS - When you send the logs, it would also be very helpful to have a screenshot of your layout, too.
I think it would also be incredibly helpful if you could record a screencast of all (or most) of the problems you've mentioned on this thread, so we can see how your system's performance aligns with our expectations. We want to help you, and it would be useful to see the magnitude of the problem.
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phrogger said:
Another day, another hour wasted trying figure out how to fix something that's not working as it should in Logos. Only to get to the end of that hour and find out in a forum that this has been a problem for nearly a decade, and no one's wiling to fix it.
I'm spending a lot of money every month paying off Logos, and will continue to...
...but I'm sure glad I kept Accordance after I "switched" a year ago. I'd love to remove those air quotes from "switched," but I never really switched—I have to keep Accordance open the whole time I'm using Logos. Logos runs way too slow on the $2000 MacBook I bought for the purpose of having a computer fast enough to run Logos — so slow I'm constantly app switching over to Accordance in frustration to copy a verse or run a simple search. (2018 MacBook Pro Touchbar Quadcore 16GB)
By slow and buggy I mean Logos is by a long shot the slowest and buggiest app of all I have on my computer. Menu button presses, very basic searches are sluggish. With a few other apps open, I can get the spinning beachball with simple screen scrolls! Right mouse clicks that don't even register because Logos was still busy thinking about the fact that I highlighted a word.
Logos developers must be frustrated by how slow their own app runs. Can the developers at Faithlife actually point me to an app on their own Macs that runs slower than Logos? This is a serious question. I've never seen an app on my Mac run this slow in 11 years.
Maybe it's just a different approach to computing. As an Apple user, I'm used to well designed apps that simply work — basic functionality is a must. Sure, slow down when you're doing difficult tasks, but Apple apps don't feel like they're falling apart simply driving down the road. Logos feels like its always on the edge of getting hung up on the most basic things.
Logos is looking more and more like it's designed to be a well-featured toy aimed at enthusiasts — not a tool for professionals to bang out their work.
Not a hater. I want Logos to work, to win. Fix known bugs, and make up for missing basic features (see my posts on copy/paste). Almost more than anything, I need SPEED from Logos for my weekly exegetical and research deadlines. SPEED! In my life, I won't be able to learn all the advanced features that Logos presently has, but every single minute I'm wishing Logos had more SPEED on the most simple and basic user interface items.
Suggestions for speed:
1. Do what Apple does. They devote every other hardware and software release to SPEED. Like screen scrolling speed. Window opening speed. Since Logos needs to catch up, how about Logos 9 and 10 just for SPEED. I'd buy it. Just get marketing to repackage and rename some of the hundred features that people haven't even touched in 8 and it can even seem like new features.
2. Buy Accordance. The company. Maybe the reason Logos lacks SPEED is because Accordance owns it. Start a Go-Fund-Me to hire away their top engineer. Who bought the Bibleworks patents? I remember that being a fast program.
At the end of the day, I'm ranting against a software application that I greatly appreciate made by people who are excellent and talented. At the end of the day, my beef is likely caused by carefully considered business decisions at Logos OR simply some app design strategies I don't share.
Thanks for anyone who's listening!
Hi, I used a similarly spec'd but older Macbook then yours (Late 2013, quad core, 16 GB, Nvidia dGPU). It definitely doesn't feel like you described. So like others said it most probably isn't a hardware problem. It is either how you setup your Mac (unlikely), or how you setup Logos (more likely), or you might have unintentionally exaggerated the situation given your perception (somewhat likely.)
So while you're trying to complain about the slowness of Logos, and to a certain degree Logos is indeed slow, the replies from most people to you is really about trying to solve your current situation such that you at least experience Logos as decent as our experience. Once done this improvement is instant to you, instead of waiting for 1.5 years for Logos to release next major upgrade.
Also, I think this page can help you to understand why Logos requires a powerful computer: https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007554992-Recommended-Hardware-and-Software . In fact, before I first started using Logos, I used to have a very slow laptop (was using Logos 4 on a 2007 laptop in 2010 that only has 2 cores, 1 GB RAM, no dGPU, spinning HDD.) But once I find out how power hungry Logos is I bought my first gaming laptop, not for running games but for Logos only. If fact if you read the last paragraph in the above link, essentially they are suggesting one to buy a gaming laptop (I paraphrased.)
Just to point out that many points in the original post you wrote isn't really true. e.g. they focused a lot on speed in Logos 8 and they claimed it to be up to 10x faster when searching according to this: https://www.logos.com/8 . They are even that Apple-y to try to compare the speed in x-factor relative to their previous generation, which is something Apple often do. (Qualcomm even copied that recently when they announce how much faster their CPU is relative to their previous generation one, while not mentioning in fact it is still slower than Apple's last generation CPU.)
Also, buying Accordance won't help a thing. Logos' slowness is (probably, at least mostly) not because of a poor programming but because it has offered more features. e.g. one can easily write a Bible search program that return results almost instantly, but that was base on a very different model on what we are searching for. e.g. to optimize for Bible search (main text only), their wouldn't be any metadata in between, and perhaps not trying to rank to an order which might be more relevant, etc. In computing, one will often find that the more specific a piece of code is, the more room for optimization and hence faster. Vice versa, the more general, the slower. Logos is in this later case, it is being very general/flexible, but it will sacrifice speed for sure. The art is really how to be very general while not sacrificing too much speed, and it seems Logos 8 is trying to fix that.
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phrogger said:
My concern is that Logos is the first of all my apps to bog down and then go beachball over core functions, such as highlighting a word, or triple clicking a resource, scrolling, etc
That should not be happening. You need to work with Bradley by providing him the information necessary to understand why your slowness has reached the problematic level. I have performance problems only with the first build of drop down menus ... which, for a variety of reasons, I decided to live with rather than track down. For myself, the accuracy of Logos coding is more critical than speed.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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phrogger said:
[A good person from Logos and other forum users reached out to me about logs, and I will give that a shot next week to see if the problem is my computer. I'm skeptical, as I've run multiple versions of Logos on multiple computers, with the same observations]
Were you ever able to do this, do you need any assistance?
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