Cloud Computing: Why you can't sync selectively
Comments
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As another IT professional, I find the use of Gmail as an example of cloud computing to be a good model for Logos to follow. I can choose store my data in the cloud, or I can download it to my computer and take personal responsibility for it.
The possibility of Logos being anything but a hybrid puts tremendous fear of buying more resources from them. I rely quite a bit on my iPad Logos App, but the other day the cloud was broken and I was left without it. Another time, no internet access and the offline books wouldn't load.
I have L4 loaded on three different computers at my house. one stable, and two betas but if the Logos "Cloud" were to go dark and Logos was NOT a hybrid, they would all be useless. GMail fails and there are times their cloud isn't available, Google has more resources and more technical expertise to draw on than Logos will ever come close to and they fail. Why should we think that Logos will not do differently. Unless the product has the option of remaining a hybrid, I will have no recourse.
Personally, privacy is not my main concern, reliability is.
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Russ White said:
Nothing like a little sarcasm to make fun of people who take privacy and data ownership seriously. Thanks.
I'm sorry Russ. I did not mean to belittle or attack you personally. I was just trying to put a smile on the whole issue. With the repetitive nature of these threads on this subject I should have prefaced the post with that Flying Circus intro, "And now for something completely different..."
I believe it has all been said. But that pic is funny, isn't it? [:P] I got it from an IT site that was addressing "privacy" concerns and our over-obsession with security.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Never mind. Crossposted.
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Matthew C Jones said:Russ White said:
Nothing like a little sarcasm to make fun of people who take privacy and data ownership seriously. Thanks.
I'm sorry Russ. I did not mean to belittle or attack you personally. I was just trying to put a smile on the whole issue. With the repetitive nature of these threads on this subject I should have prefaced the post with that Flying Circus intro, "And now for something completely different..."
It's fine... I understand the frustration with all the threads...
:-)
Russ
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Russ White said:
It's fine... I understand the frustration with all the threads...
fwiw: I am on record as agreeable to having an "export to local backup" option. I would even use it. And I did not start off with that opinion but was won over to it after MUCH persuasion.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Terry Poperszky said:
Personally, privacy is not my main concern, reliability is.
I think Terry has made a valid case here. I'm beginning to be of the opinion that Logos should commit to providing local resource/data storage for as long as the OS and hardware support it. Or to always provide a version that can access local data, even if it's a lite version. I suppose we could add that Logos has said we own the resources. That could have a bearing on my right to access them locally, but that may be overstating the case.
Personally, I am pretty relaxed about what the future holds. I can't envision Logos unilaterally pulling the plug on local storage while it remains a normal feature of personal computers. But reassurance from the top is always welcome...
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Terry Poperszky said:
but if the Logos "Cloud" were to go dark and Logos was NOT a hybrid, they would all be useless.
Terry,
How is this statement true brother?
Useless?
That's the word?
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Andy Bell said:
I think Terry has made a valid case here. I'm beginning to be of the opinion that Logos should commit to providing local resource/data storage for as long as the OS and hardware support it.
Andy...
do me a favor.
close logos
disable your internet signal or cable.
restart Logos using the "CTRL +click" mode....
Are you still able to use logos?
Did it become useless? (to quote my brother Terry)
[:D]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:Terry Poperszky said:
but if the Logos "Cloud" were to go dark and Logos was NOT a hybrid, they would all be useless.
Terry,
How is this statement true brother?
Useless?
That's the word?
Robert, as Logos stands today it is not truly a cloud architecture, it isn't even really a hybrid yet. Things sync through the cloud, I can restore from the cloud, but when I use it, I am using the resources that reside on my computer only. If the cloud went away, I would be affected very little. Contrast that with the iPad app, while I can download some resources, when I choose to do most things they happen in the cloud and the results show on my device. When Logos had their little problem the other day, it showed up in L4 as an inability to sync, but it showed up in the iPad as a complete loss of functionality. The Logos cloud broke, and both my iPhone and iPad were affected. If Bob's vision of a truly cloud based Logos happens (Not a hybrid, but cloud only) and the Logos cloud broke, then my investment would at that point be useless (at least for the duration of the outage).
Does what I said make more sense now? I am not talking about Logos today, I am talking about Logos as a totally cloud based application which Bob said was a possibility.
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Terry,
ahh....fully understood....thank you.
For the record, if L4 became a fully cloud dependent piece of software..(i.e. wouldn't run without the internet connection at all) then .i'd agree with you 100%...
Sean Boisen quote from the forums today:
But it's very unlikely that Logos 4 will ever absolutely require the
Internet, and i often use it disconnected with no major loss of
functionality. So i expect it will continue to be the best Bible
Software offline.Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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I actually like the idea, in another thread I had some questions that I think would help ease some of this if Logos is willing to answer. One key question in this area is if one turns the internet sync off and then runs an update now will it still honor the no sync? That could be the best bet for ending the debate. Have the ability to still receive updates, while still leaving internet off to avoid syncing documents...
I just tried turning internet to off and ran both update now and update resources... No sync sign showed up at all, so if Logos can confirm that this does not in anyway sync anything and that there is a way for any docs currently in the cloud to be removed, most of the people who have serious issue with this could have their problem solved, it appears you CAN still get updates without syncing
Robert Pavich said:Andy Bell said:I think Terry has made a valid case here. I'm beginning to be of the opinion that Logos should commit to providing local resource/data storage for as long as the OS and hardware support it.
Andy...
do me a favor.
close logos
disable your internet signal or cable.
restart Logos using the "CTRL +click" mode....
Are you still able to use logos?
Did it become useless? (to quote my brother Terry)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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Robert Pavich said:Andy Bell said:
I think Terry has made a valid case here. I'm beginning to be of the opinion that Logos should commit to providing local resource/data storage for as long as the OS and hardware support it.
Andy...
do me a favor.
close logos
disable your internet signal or cable.
restart Logos using the "CTRL +click" mode....
Are you still able to use logos?
Did it become useless? (to quote my brother Terry)
I think Terry's already provided the answer, but I think it would be rude to just forgo replying to your post.
I, too, was meaning that if my resources could only be accessed via the Internet then I would be unhappy about it, unless PC architecture had changed by then to the extent I had no choice. I would sill be unhappy, but would accept I had to live with it.
Just to clarify my 'position', at home I run with Internet = On and let Logos do what it will. IF I started to use Notes/Prayer lists for anything personal or confidential then I would either turn internet off or configure my firewall to stop syncing - thus taking personal responsibility. At work, when I use Logos during lunchbreaks, I run Logos offline to ensure I don't overuse/abuse my company's bandwidth. My proxy settings at work also exclude *.logos.com just in case I forget to run offline.
I'm not against the cloud per se. I am against committing 100% to it before it becomes a necessity. I am also for making software reasonably flexible so that it doesn't arbitrarily force you to use in a particular way, unless there are good reasons for doing so. Bob has raised a lot of valid points about Customer support and user-confusion etc. The bottom line is that we can't have it both ways - if we want to turn off the cloud we have to accept that backups are our responsibility. If we turn on the cloud we have to use it responsibly. Logos4 is lacking in the backup department at the moment, but I think Bob's post indicates it's coming.
I would still like a bit more control over cloud usage to be built within Logos, but as I have learnt I can achieve it using my firewall, I'm a lot more relaxed about that now.
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Andy,
It looks like we do agree on a few things...
At this point...for myself, I'm going to trust the judgment of Bob P.
God bless brother.
bob
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Dennis Miller said:
. . . On my desktop though I prefer to not have to rely on the cloud to get my data. I want it local for speed and accessibility. If logos ever abandons local resources on my desktop or laptop then I will look for an alternative application that does not rely upon the cloud only. . . .
I agree. I think another scenario should be considered. I vacation every other year on cruise ships where internet access is expensive. I take my laptop solely to be able to study my Logos resources. My wife and I also have found some cabins to stay at which have no phone or internet access. Again, I like to take my laptop with Logos along for the week. I would really be disappointed to find out that I was unable to get to my resources due to a lack of access to the "cloud".
Furthermore, in these uncertain economic times I would not be able to recommend an investment of thousands of dollars based on the continuing viability of Logos as a company. I can understand that the "sync" between my laptop and desktop may go away, but my library should still be accessible as long as I am able to maintain a computer with my current O/S.
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DavidEgolf said:
but my library should still be accessible as long as I am able to maintain a computer with my current O/S.
It is. When you are in a location with expensive downloads, just set the internet function to no. You do not need to be on the internet at all to have access to all your resources. Both your cruise and quiet hidden cabin situations are covered in the current software.
Now if your hard drive crashes and you have to rebuild your system on the cruise ship or quiet hidden cabin you aren't covered without an internet connection but I doubt you'd expect to be able to rebuild in those situations.[;)]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I love the cloud.
I want more cloud, not less. The cloud lets me keep going with my work at the office and at home.
I'm not terribly concerned with security of my Bible study notes, or even my prayer list. As others have said, if I get concerned, I'll use something else for confidential content.
Logos, if you guys are ever having a slow day, feel free to read my notes, passage lists, highlights, etc. I know you never will since you've said you won't and I trust you, but really, I don't care if you did. It's sermon notes. Have at it.
And thank you for the cloud. It makes my life so much easier while causing zero problems for me. I know if the day comes that the cloud simply does not work out, you will come up with something else, so I'm not worried about what the future will bring.
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I agree with the cloud strategy and think the FUD posting pointing to people and companies who make tons of money spreading fear is disingenuous or ignorant (disclosure: I'm a professional in this field and see the REAL issues every day and sell really-super-expensive software and services to keep it from happening... and I talk to the industry analysts and "experts" regularly... including people writing FUD).
I do think fear has kept people from expressing a proper and valid concern, desire for some key features:
- Turn off internet access to keep even neophyte users from accessing it by clicking sync or anything that would appear on the "Home Page"
- Point in time backups of personalized content -- I would be fine with this kind of feature being enabled within the Logos sync infrastructure (OK, call it "the cloud" if you like)
- Export/import of personalized content
I like to be able to share and allow others to extend/change/enjoy my work in their logos... make it their own... remix it into something better... so I admit that export/import is only one possible way of doing this, not really the "feature" I care about as much as the function
On another note, as someone who works in the tech industry I'm consistently amazed at Bob's openness, patience, self-control, gentleness, and faith in his customers. It continually humbles me and is a great reminder and example for me when I'm at the end of my patience with my own customers and partners:
Thank you Bob
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Mike S. said:
I agree with the cloud strategy and think the FUD posting pointing to people and companies who make tons of money spreading fear is disingenuous or ignorant (disclosure: I'm a professional in this field and see the REAL issues every day and sell really-super-expensive software and services to keep it from happening... and I talk to the industry analysts and "experts" regularly... including people writing FUD). . . .
Excuse me, but I also work "in the industry". I just attended the Linux Foundation Collaboration Summit in San Francisco. I chose to attend a session on Clouds. The majority of the discussions after the presentations dealt precisely with this fear, uncertainty, and doubt. There were cloud adopters, cloud consultants, cloud providers; i.e., people from Google in the room. These folks were certainly not ignorant.
My own company believes that the fear and uncertainty is warranted due to the lack of answers for many of the security questions. We think that the near term solutions to privacy and control issues will not be sufficiently robust to satisfy many sectors. Moving on that belief we are developing our own "private cloud" offer which will allow larger organizations to benefit from some of the the economies of clouds using our HPC (high performance computer) offering, but totally behind their corporate firewalls.
To "cloud" or "not to cloud" is clearly a "religious" issue in the computer world. Let's not slime those who hold differing opinions as "ignorant" or "disingenuous".
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MJ. Smith said:DavidEgolf said:
but my library should still be accessible as long as I am able to maintain a computer with my current O/S.
It is
I think David was describing a scenario where 'it isn't' - when Logos have pulled the plug on local storage and resources can only be accessed through the cloud.
I, for one, hope that this never happens or that Logos only do it because they have to - because PC's no longer support local storage. I am no prophet, but I suspect this will never happen - local storage has way too many advantages and the Internet would be overrun if everything could only be accessed by it. Even in my Company, which has a good in house network and powerful UNIX servers, we still do our development on local PC's so that my building and testing the baseline (which is huge) does not interfere with the other 100 programmers building and testing theirs. Of course we have a central repository and code changes are checked in to it about every 2 hours and central 'continuous' builds that tests the changes, but even in our own infrastructure we see the need for local storage and the benefits of it. (Sorry if this paragraph is a bit techie. Building the baseline refers to rebuilding our entire product, incorporating my latest changes.)
Remember, the cloud issue is not just about Logos, which uses it in a specific way. If the cloud took over 100% it would have huge ramifications because the Internet would probably not be able to cope with the demand.
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DavidEgolf said:
My own company believes that the fear and uncertainty is warranted due to the lack of answers for many of the security questions. We think that the near term solutions to privacy and control issues will not be sufficiently robust to satisfy many sectors. Moving on that belief we are developing our own "private cloud" offer which will allow larger organizations to benefit from some of the the economies of clouds using our HPC (high performance computer) offering, but totally behind their corporate firewalls.
Note the key phrase you use "satisfy many sectors". I worked in an unusual environment, a public university, in which conventional firewalls created legal problems. With the right minds working on it, we could run highly private (legally) data - student and patient - and keep it secure through other means. My point: just like any other part of system design, security is a design problem based on legal requirements, design requirements and the worst case scenarios for disaster and hacker recovery. No simple tag "firewall", "cloud". "torrent", "synchronization", "backup", "restore" tells you if a solution is appropriate or inappropriate. Similarly, a need to know philosophy on the details minimizes the risk - the more open the security measures are, the less effort needed to break them.
My attitude towards security on my own machine- tight enough to discourage accidental breaching; simple enough to be boring to the average hacker.[8-|]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Mike S. said:
I agree with the cloud strategy and think the FUD posting pointing to people and companies who make tons of money spreading fear is disingenuous or ignorant (disclosure: I'm a professional in this field and see the REAL issues every day and sell really-super-expensive software and services to keep it from happening... and I talk to the industry analysts and "experts" regularly... including people writing FUD).
And I assume:
1. You would gladly put all your information online, unencrypted, because all the worries about "cloud" are just "FUD." After all, no-one wants to look at your life, and mine it for marketing and other information about you--not even Amazon and Google.
2. You're certain that network bandwidth is going to be free forever. Economics and physics are arguing against you here.
3. You consider all your data to be public unless you decide to keep it private. In other words, you're okay with putting locks on one room in your house, and allowing people to wander all over the rest of it. If you want to keep it private, you'll move it into that one room.
Again, I've offered three solutions to the problem of privacy. None of them come from someone who is "ignorant," or "spreading FUD." I'll even add the fourth--if I could do local backups, and rely on my
firewall to block synching of all notes and other data I've entered, I'd
be happy with that, too. Calling me, or anyone else, who defaults to "all my data is private until I decide not to make it private," names, isn't solving any sort of a problem here. Calling someone names who believes they should be able to use software doesn't help anything here, either.[quote]I do think fear has kept people from expressing a proper and valid concern, desire for some key features:
- Turn off internet access to keep even neophyte users from accessing it by clicking sync or anything that would appear on the "Home Page"
No, I don't want to turn off Internet access. I want to be able to keep the program updates synch'd, and have local control of the data I enter into the software. As another option, I'd like my data to be encrypted with a key of my choosing. If none of those work, then build the software so I can use the cross links between personal data and resources in a way that makes sense, without having to jump through hoops to do it.
[quote]
- Point in time backups of personalized content -- I would be fine with this kind of feature being enabled within the Logos sync infrastructure (OK, call it "the cloud" if you like)
- Export/import of personalized content
I like to be able to share
and allow others to extend/change/enjoy my work in their logos... make
it their own... remix it into something better... so I admit that
export/import is only one possible way of doing this, not really the
"feature" I care about as much as the function
Again, these would be a really nice feature if people expect me to keep my data inside Logos. The other option for both of these is to give me ways to fully integrate with some other software package in crosslinks, etc.
[quote]On another note, as someone who works in the tech industry I'm consistently amazed at Bob's openness, patience, self-control, gentleness, and faith in his customers. It continually humbles me and is a great reminder and example for me when I'm at the end of my patience with my own customers and partners:
Thank you Bob
I would agree with this statement completely--I appreciate the work Bob does, and his patience.
But that doesn't mean Bob doesn't make mistakes, or "drink the koolaid" from time to time, any less than it does any of us here. I learned a long time ago that fads in the IT industry are just like fads in fashion. I no longer buy my pants according to fashion, and I no longer jump on IT industry bandwagons. Cloud, "green," even the "web" to some degree--these are all tools of greater or lesser utility. I stopped believing years ago that the future was going to be "ruled" by one particular technology. Even the Antichrist will probably use more than one technology to "control all buying and selling."
Honestly, if you look at Internet core traffic, you'll find the 'web is still only a small part of it (and its inflated because HTML is the default transport now, to get through firewalls--Arbor has some really nice reports on this). And if you look at networks in general, the "private" side of any service provider's network is always at least four or five times larger than the "public" side, not counting the huge networks that are still built privately. To give you a specific example, virtually every service provide I work with has well over 1 million routes in their routing tables. Of those, about 280,000 are "public" routes. The rest are "private." The "Internet" hasn't precisely "taken over" the entire field of networking, in other words, and many more routers are sold into private use than use on the 'net, no matter how great the 'net might be. I would bet "cloud computing" will follow a similar pattern, and that what you see in "public" cloud will be the tip of the iceburg in what data is out there.
This is all because of a simple problem: companies don't default to "unless I want to keep it secret, I'll let anyone see it." Every presentation template I've ever seen at any company says at the bottom "confidential." Lots of people put those disclaimers at the bottom of their emails now that say everything in those emails is confidential. Why should I treat my data any differently?
You can call me "ignorant" all day long, and say I'm spreading "FUD," and see some sort of insidious "plot" because of the company I work for. Whatever. There are people in cisco who've been bitten by the "cloud" worse than many here, including you. There are others who haven't. It's a big company, with lots of people, and lots of opinions.My job at cisco didn't come with a muzzle, nor do they plug me in every night to upload the correct set of opinions for the next day.
I'm sorry if I'm ranting, but, really... The concepts don't seem so hard to me here. Don't tell me what "private" data is and isn't. I'll make a deal with you--you can tell me what's "private" when I can come by your house at any time I like and place the pictures I take on the open Internet--as long as I promise not to take pictures of your bank statement. If you get to define "private data" for me, then fair's fair--I get to define private data for you.
At any rate, I'm done with this thread, and the problem of synch'ing data in Logos. I think I've offered several realistic solutions, and made a strong case.
Russ
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Russ White said:
1. You would gladly put all your information online, unencrypted, because all the worries about "cloud" are just "FUD." After all, no-onewants to look at your life, and mine it for marketing and other information about you--not even Amazon and Google.
I should be straight up Russ; I know who you are and your tech credentials speak for themselves. I actually own a few of your books. Great stuff. So I know you're not ignorant and frankly you've not pulled the "I know more then you do" card. You've remained humble and I've seen that.
What I am frustrated with is the pointing to "the cloud" (networked computers holding data and running applications for end users) as something "new" and there's some kind of huge new threat. It's not new and you know it. Throwing up a few links to articles meant to start an IT security conversation in a forum like this because you don't like the direction the software is taking is, in my opinion, disingenuous. You know this isn't the right context to have a productive discussion, but it is a great place to scare people. I would think you might have more success trying to reach out to Bob and do give him a view into your credentials. They are not insubstantial.
I know network bandwidth isn't free, nor is storage, let alone the infrastructure required to host the cloud. Fact is, that is my biggest concern for the current L4 design -- it won't scale without driving up costs, and hence, our price. Shucks, I think the choice of .NET isn't the best long term approach either. It ties you into being a PC platform and I do believe mobile devices and platforms are the way of the future . . . Bob's frustrations with the lack of apparent return on the iPhone app are evidence of that in my opinion.
Admittedly, as you might guess, I would prefer that the data be encrypted in transit and at rest and for that reason, I do not put anything up that is valuable to my privacy or person.
All this discussion around "cloud" for me detracts from a focused, valuable discussion around L4 features around personalized content that get hidden in "the cloud".
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Mike S. said:
I should be straight up Russ; I know who you are and your tech credentials speak for themselves. I actually own a few of your books. Great stuff. So I know you're not ignorant and frankly you've not pulled the "I know more then you do" card. You've remained humble and I've seen that.
Thank you.
[quote]What I am frustrated with is the pointing to "the cloud" (networked computers holding data and running applications for end users) as something "new" and there's some kind of huge new threat.
When you properly understand the cloud, IMHO, you will see that it is something new. It is the same as object oriented programming, it's not just another way of storing files.
Part of the problem is, I think, there are two separate points to be made:
1. I don't really agree with the business decision. But, really, that's beyond my pay grade, and hence, I've let that go. Instead, I'm simply taking the approach of protecting my investment where I can--moving my data out of Logos. At the same time, I'm still encouraging people to use Logos, just with realistic caveats about privacy.
2. I don't agree with the "no option to store your data where you want it." There are multiple solutions to this problem (as above). This is the point I've been focused on for a while in these threads. The main way to get people's attention is to pick one of the various problems--privacy--and focus on what that means to the average user. Hence, the articles showing that privacy is a big issue in current cloud services, and is likely to remain so. There are a lot of other problems, including data mining, copyright, etc.--what happens when you copy from a resource into your notes, and then your notes are synch'd to a server? Are you still free and clear of copyright violations? I don't think this specific problem has really been addressed in the cloud world, and it probably won't until some copyright holder grabs the issue by the horns and figures out what to do--probably resulting in a long drawn out court case, etc.
I, personally, would prefer not to discuss what cloud means here--but, OTOH, I don't see a way to avoid it, honestly. If you don't understand the problem, you can't understand the range of solutions, nor why the solutions offered make sense.
[quote]Fact is, that is my biggest concern for the current L4 design -- it won't scale without driving up costs, and hence, our price. Shucks, I think the choice of .NET isn't the best long term approach either. It ties you into being a PC platform and I do believe mobile devices and platforms are the way of the future . . . Bob's frustrations with the lack of apparent return on the iPhone app are evidence of that in my opinion.
That's my point #1--but I'm not on that topic any longer. That's Bob's decision, and although it represents a lot of money for me, well, there's just nothing I can do there, so--we'll just have to wait and see, won't we. :-)
I'm sorry if I've not properly separated the issues in various posts, and it's not obvious I'm off the topic of whether or not I think Bob should go in this direction.
At the same time, I'm really just trying to get off the topic altogether--I think I've made the case that can be made, and others will have to think through the issues for themselves. If I could erase all the back and forth from the forum, and make one, coherent post that is "sticky," or tied to the feature request, to put the entire case in one place, I would gladly do so at this point. But I don't know of any way to do that.
:-)
Russ
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Bob Pritchett said:
I feel like this has already been beaten to death, but since it just won't go away, I'll take one more shot.
Bob, It will not go away for a reason.
To get to the point, this is one reason why I no longer support Logos on my seminary campus.
Bob Pritchett said:Almost every web site at which I've created an account will email my password to me. This is terrible security
You are correct, this is terrible security.
Bob Pritchett said:American Express is so secure that I just stopped using their site.
I stopped using a bank because of their online security was too much of a hassle. Too much security can be a bad thing.
.Bob Pritchett said:Yes, your data is your data.
I personally do not think that you (Logos) should be responsible for my data. If I want my data on your servers so I can access it from anywhere in the world, cool. If I want my data only on my computers, cool.
I keep my data in sync between all of my computers, and I weekly back my data up to an external hard drive. Therefore, I do need or want my data on your server. I should not be forced to store my data without being punished (example - having to get updates for the program via a DVD. Is Logos going to provide me with free DVD of the current updates?)
FYI...If you remember in my previous emails, I am more than just a little upset that I do not have control of my data. So much so, I have contacted my senators and my representative. My representative did call me, something that I was not expecting, concerning my issue with a company taking my personal data and storing on their servers. (S)he did assure me (note: I put as much faith in this person's assurance as I would any other politician and his/her campaign promises) that the federal government is taking a look at how companies treat personal data.
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tom collinge said:
the federal government is taking a look at how companies treat personal data.
That's almost funny. I don't mind Logos reading my notes/prayer lists half as much as the Frederal government guarding my privacy!
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Matthew C Jones said:tom collinge said:
the federal government is taking a look at how companies treat personal data.
That's almost funny. I don't mind Logos reading my notes/prayer lists half as much as the Frederal government guarding my privacy!
It actually is funny. The king of wire-tapping looking into how to keep our data private... ? Ha! If you believe that, I've got a nice bridge to sell you... [:)]
Try contacting instead Computer Professionals for Social Responsibility (CPSR), who are involved in "activism for civil liberties in issues such as internet censorship, internet governance, malicious interference." They have a whole subgroup on Privacy. Doesn't look like they've been all that active lately in that area, though.
Here are some other sites to check with:
http://www.worldprivacyforum.org/
In particularl:
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I don't care what the future looks like:
- My typewriter works fine
- Monitors will never replace line printers
- Disks will never replace tape
- Keyboard input? I already have punch cards
- I'll never need a hard drive
- No way people will give up the command prompt
- Portable computers? Yea, right
- I'll never use that much memory
- I know it was $9000.00, but it's a PS2! The last computer I will ever need
- The internet isn't going to change things
- Dial-up is all anyone needs
- Cloud computing will never...
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Paul Golder said:
don't care what the future looks like:
- My typewriter works fine
- Monitors will never replace line printers
- Disks will never replace tape
- Keyboard input? I already have punch cards
- I'll never need a hard drive
- No way people will give up the command prompt
- Portable computers? Yea, right
- I'll never use that much memory
- I know it was $9000.00, but it's a PS2! The last computer I will ever need
- The internet isn't going to change things
- Dial-up is all anyone needs
- Cloud computing will never...
Paul every idea that you listed there seems so ridiculous when viewed by 20/20 hind sight. But question, how many technologies were supposed to be the "Next Big Thing" and failed utterly? People have concerns, just because others don't share them, doesn't mean they aren't valid.
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Terry Poperszky said:
Paul every idea that you listed there seems so ridiculous when viewed by 20/20 hind sight. But question, how many technologies were supposed to be the "Next Big Thing" and failed utterly? People have concerns, just because others don't share them, doesn't mean they aren't valid.
Agreed, and I'm not trying to belittle the concerns, it just looks like cloud computing is becoming ingrained into everything that is computing.
Nevertheless, don't you think that if cloud computing turns out to be a "flash-in-the-pan", and everybody drops it, will not Logos also?
If the programing model that L4 is written in is anything, it is most definitely flexible.
And if Bob Pritchett has shown himself to be anyone, he is most definitely someone who produces what customers want.
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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Mike S. said:
Fact is, that is my biggest concern for the current L4 design -- it won't scale without driving up costs, and hence, our price. Shucks, I think the choice of .NET isn't the best long term approach either. It ties you into being a PC platform and I do believe mobile devices and platforms are the way of the future . . . Bob's frustrations with the lack of apparent return on the iPhone app are evidence of that in my opinion.
Actually, our use of .NET seems to be just fine; we're successfully using it on both Windows and the Mac. (On the Mac we're doing native UI, but sharing the underlying .NET code.)
Also, the cloud is what's enabling the mobile apps. WIthout it we really couldn't afford to do them (especially for free). If your notes and licenses were on your machine, it would be a lot harder to get them to a mobile device. Our decision to build a sync architecture was driven, in large part, by our desire to let you access your own content on the device of your choice, without having to manually move data around.
(And, once again, I'd like to point out that all your files ARE on your hard drive, and we DO run without the cloud. We're mostly arguing about future direction. Right now you can run offline, backup the appdata directory, etc. Our restriction on where the files are stored is more about reducing tech support -- they're not inaccessible and unbackup-able. They're right there. We're just keeping them in one place and encouraging users (most of whom are much less technical than Russ) to let us manage them.)
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