Errors
Comments
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Paul Martin said:
The people who write this software are our brothers and sisters in Christ. They should be treated as such. They will be held accountable for their actions in this life and the next. Please point out the errors and work with them not against them.
2 Tim 2:24 "...the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful."
Amen.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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[Y] Yes...
"But you, be sober in all things, endure hardship, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry." 2 Timothy 4:5 (NASB)
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Paul Martin said:
The people who write this software are our brothers and sisters in Christ. They should be treated as such. They will be held accountable for their actions in this life and the next. Please point out the errors and work with them not against them.
2 Tim 2:24 "...the Lord’s servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful."
A big Amen here.
Millisle & Ballycopeland Presbyterian Church, Northern Ireland.
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Robert Pavich said:MarkStevens said:
Bob, can I just say that some of my own personal frustration is with the marketing. It raised my own expectation so high when I hear of so many problems i worry that I will be sorely disappointed. Thats all!
Mark,
you won't be "sorely disappointed" brother.
Yes...there are problems....and yes some of them are "fundamental" types...but the DVD's aren't garbage or unusable or anything like that..in fact...except for the sound issues and what's been mentioned....I've found them to be very very good.
I can second what Robert says. I am thrilled to have the information and instruction in these DVD's despite the minor issues that have been discussed.
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Fred Chapman said:Robert Pavich said:MarkStevens said:
Bob, can I just say that some of my own personal frustration is with the marketing. It raised my own expectation so high when I hear of so many problems i worry that I will be sorely disappointed. Thats all!
Mark,
you won't be "sorely disappointed" brother.
Yes...there are problems....and yes some of them are "fundamental" types...but the DVD's aren't garbage or unusable or anything like that..in fact...except for the sound issues and what's been mentioned....I've found them to be very very good.
I can second what Robert says. I am thrilled to have the information and instruction in these DVD's despite the minor issues that have been discussed.
Thanks guys, I am sure they will be great (and I have no doubts about the content. Just a little disappointed about the audio quality...audio quality really irks me if it is poor! Anyway, everyday i check my post box hoping that it has arrived! [:)]
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The problem I have with all of this is, the difference in what is advertised and what is delivered. I really hope that Logos fixes these errors and provides updated DVDS free of charge (I paid for error free DVDS).
I understand that it may be difficult to do something different than they have done in the past and all, but to be fair to the customer, it is not really our fault. They said they were going to do this video series and that we should buy it, in fact I don't know if i have ever seen something more advertised than this video series within the Bible study genre.
I am not upset with Logos over this but I do hope that they make this right.
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John Graves said:
The problem I have with all of this is, the difference in what is advertised and what is delivered. I really hope that Logos fixes these errors and provides updated DVDS free of charge (I paid for error free DVDS).
I understand that it may be difficult to do something different than they have done in the past and all, but to be fair to the customer, it is not really our fault. They said they were going to do this video series and that we should buy it, in fact I don't know if i have ever seen something more advertised than this video series within the Bible study genre.
I am not upset with Logos over this but I do hope that they make this right.
Very well said and reflects what I was trying to say.
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Bob,
As a longtime user and promoter of Logos software, I have to agree--regrettably--with the criticisms of this product, specifically its promotion and accompanying (lack of) instructions. Unless I missed some important information (and I reviewed the information repeatedly), some things which should have been made clear in the product publicity/promotion were not. Foremost among them is the reality made clear only after forum discussion that the videos are to some degree in an "unfinished," preliminary state. The product was sold/promoted as a "finished" product. It appears now that users will need to spend a lot of time reading through the forum and/or wiki to answer key questions about the product and how to use it. I concur with those who become increasingly frustrated with "unfinished," "half-finished" products. Working with beta versions, candidate releases, etc., is frustrating but I'm happy to do it in order to stay at least close to the forefront, but it drives my students up the wall and quickly elicits regret at having been encouraged (or required) to make costly investments in a product that needs continual upgrades to function as promised. They are not encouraged when I have to tell them that yet another fix/patch will be released at some undetermined point in the future.
In addition, the "instructions" (shipped with DVDs) are quite limiting for instructors like myself. The product overview is encouraging:
- Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos Bible Software is perfect for teaching preparation in your courses that focus on Greek and Hebrew tools for English readers. Use the videos to prepare your lessons. Learn new teaching methods, and glean ideas for your own teaching and lecturing on the original languages. Professors teaching traditional first year Greek and Hebrew courses can use the videos for showing students how to use their language training for exegesis.
- Integrate technology into the classroom. Supplement your teaching and lectures with high definition video. Help your students use Logos Bible Software for studying the Bible with the original languages.
On the other hand, the "instructions" state, "You may present them in a group setting, providing your students own a copy"! I guess that means I cannot use them in any setting unless its restricted to owners of the dvds!
I also notice (after receiving the instructions) that I can only download the videos to one single hard disk. For someone like myself who works on home and office computer, this is unduly restrictive (and runs counter to the rather lack positions typically associated with Logos usage.
Sorry--very sorry--to be so critical. I strongly support Logos and your leadership. IF I could have stated this opinion confidentially, I would have, but obviously, the opinions are not mine alone. Typically, the promotional information clarifies issues up front. Not this time!
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Tim Deahl said:
some things which should have been made clear in the product publicity/promotion were not. Foremost among them is the reality made clear only after forum discussion that the videos are to some degree in an "unfinished," preliminary state.
I guess I'm not tracking you on this...how did we come to the conclusion that these videos are "unfinished" and prelim?
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Just a quick question for those who have experienced video and/or audio quality issues. Are you experiencing this using the Quicktime Player, or another player?
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Hi,
"I can only download the videos to one single hard disk".
Like Tim I also use Logos at home (where my study is based) and at Church. Does this mean that I can't install the videos on my PC and on my netbook?
I am in the UK and haven't yet received the disks.
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The terminology is mine. Read the earlier posts, including those from Johnny Cisneros and Sean Boisen (page 1 of this thread)as well as Michael Heiser (page 2; his long reply has some very helpful information). Might also want to revisit Bob Pritchett's very kind remarks on (page 3), which is why I was very hesitant even to comment. It seems apparent from the number of posts (compare the numbers on this relatively new thread!) as well as from Logos personnel that there is a sense in which the product is somewhat less than in "finished" state.
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John Houseago said:
Hi,
"I can only download the videos to one single hard disk".
Like Tim I also use Logos at home (where my study is based) and at Church. Does this mean that I can't install the videos on my PC and on my netbook?
I am in the UK and haven't yet received the disks.
Must admit the condition of only copying the files to one PC seem restrictive given today's multi computer using society, though I can understand the thinking behind it. What might've been a better way of putting it would be to say something along the lines of only one "active use" license or single site use. That way it allows people to copy files to all PCs but restricts the usage to one person at a time.
The way I've got round it is to copy the files to my Airstash and stream the files from there. Seems to work a treat so far, especially with my iPhone.
Regarding the playing of files to groups, again it seems to me that these videos are meant for personal use and adopting a teacher/class role with them would surely be a breach of copyright? I can understand Logos' thinking here.
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lostlogik said:
Must admit the condition of only copying the files to one PC seem restrictive given today's multi computer using society . . .
Let me quote pertinent info from the pamphlet that came with my DVD set:
"These videos are for personal and classroom use. You may present them in a group setting. You may also transfer the content of these DVD-ROMS to a single hard disk, provided you keep the original solely for backup or archival purposes."
"Prohibited uses:
"You may not copy the content except for backup purposes.
"You may not copy the content for students in your classroom.
"You may not place the content onto a server so that it is accessible via a public network such as the Internet or shared directories at your school.
"You may not sublicense, sell, rent, lease, or lend any portion of the content."
Obviously, Logos' user agreement here is different from their user agreement for the software. I trust that in agreeing to use these, we agree to use them in keeping with the agreement. If one wanted to have an exception, that should be taken up with Logos.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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Richard DeRuiter said:
Let me quote pertinent info from the pamphlet that came with my DVD set:
Ah, well, yes, didn't actually read that. The bit about being able to use it in a classroom is ok then (not that I need to do that) but the single copy bit is pretty clear and pretty outdated given how people use computers these days. Like I said above, glad I have an Airstash.
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AndrewHughes said:
Just a quick question for those who have experienced video and/or audio quality issues. Are you experiencing this using the Quicktime Player, or another player?
I'm using media player 12
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Tim Deahl said:
It seems apparent from the number of posts (compare the numbers on this relatively new thread!) as well as from Logos personnel that there is a sense in which the product is somewhat less than in "finished" state.
Tim,
thanks for clarifying.
I guess we see it differently...lol...
A project of this magnitude and considering the technical nature of the material...I'd be surprised if there weren't errors.
By my point of view...no software or product is bug free...ever....some are just more visible than others...
But...I know you didn't mean any harm so don't take my comments like a rebuke...
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Logos has announced the availability of the corrected Greek and Hebrew alphabet videos in downloadable form: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/20116/151446.aspx
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