The Next Chapter in the EEC
Comments
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Thank you for the update!
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Ronald Quick said:
what are the series editors doing when they review the author's work?
Don't, don't, stop .... sorry I can't control myself [:$] What do editors do? They edit [:D] Okay, my sister was a proof-reader for an educational software firm but she also did some editing - in her case she was looking primarily for unwanted ambiguity as well as spelling, punctuation, grammatical errors, incorrect choice of words ... anything that made the software appear unprofessional, inaccurate, confusing, beyond the grasp of the intended audience. Full-fledged editors go beyond her work to insure a smooth flow of text, that something was actually said before it was referred back to, that the style book of the company is adhered to ....
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Ronald Quick said:
what are the series editors doing when they review the author's work?
MJ. Smith said:In her case she was looking primarily for unwanted ambiguity as well as spelling, punctuation, grammatical errors, incorrect choice of words ... anything that made the software appear unprofessional, inaccurate, confusing, beyond the grasp of the intended audience. Full-fledged editors go beyond her work to insure a smooth flow of text, that something was actually said before it was referred back to, that the style book of the company is adhered to ....
MJ is essentially describing copyediting and proofing, the final two steps of the editorial process. For these volumes in the EEC, those two steps occur after the series editors perform their review and go though their revision process with the author. The series editors are ensuring all the critical issues are covered by the author in their manuscript -- in short, making sure everything is covered correctly and properly to fulfill the scope of the series. Once they're finished with their review and the author has had a chance to address any concerns, then the manuscript is sent to Lexham. At this point, the "meat" of the volume is finalized and all those details MJ referenced above are worked through in the final steps of the editorial process.
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That makes sense. Thanks.
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Thanks Jake and MJ for explaining the why and when of the process.
Jake Mailhot (Faithlife) said:Ronald Quick said:what are the series editors doing when they review the author's work?
MJ. Smith said:In her case she was looking primarily for unwanted ambiguity as well as spelling, punctuation, grammatical errors, incorrect choice of words ... anything that made the software appear unprofessional, inaccurate, confusing, beyond the grasp of the intended audience. Full-fledged editors go beyond her work to insure a smooth flow of text, that something was actually said before it was referred back to, that the style book of the company is adhered to ....
MJ is essentially describing copyediting and proofing, the final two steps of the editorial process. For these volumes in the EEC, those two steps occur after the series editors perform their review and go though their revision process with the author. The series editors are ensuring all the critical issues are covered by the author in their manuscript -- in short, making sure everything is covered correctly and properly to fulfill the scope of the series. Once they're finished with their review and the author has had a chance to address any concerns, then the manuscript is sent to Lexham. At this point, the "meat" of the volume is finalized and all those details MJ referenced above are worked through in the final steps of the editorial process.
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After being a customer for more than 10 years, I am now thinking of suing Faithlife over the EEC. Is anyone else?
I appreciate(d) the released volumes and would like to see the set completed. I also understand that there may be delays in publishing. However, some of the outstanding volumes were due in 2013 and they still haven't arrived 8 years later. Faithlife have released EEC commentary on around a sixth of the verses in the bible after 10 years and have no publicly available plan for releasing other volumes.
I have suggested that they give me temporary access to a comparable set until they can release the EEC volumes or swapping for another (cheaper) commentary set. Instead they have unilaterally given me a refund of the money I paid more than 10 years ago and a small credit. So I now don't even have the released commentaries and it will cost me money just to get back to where I was before I had the temerity to ask for help.
I have recommended Logos to countless friends and colleagues over the last 10 years (despite the EEC debacle). I don't see how I can recommend Faithlife now.
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David Duckitt said:
After being a customer for more than 10 years, I am now thinking of suing Faithlife over the EEC. Is anyone else?
No. From your description, I think I'll check out Logos for some more great buys!
- They refunded you, plus. I'm surprised. I thought they wouldn't..
- Before FL took EEC on, it was in trouble. Customer-investors were on a rescue mission. The mission seems to be fraying.
- The book business, and Christian market have changed drastically. 'They say' the primary EEC market is 10-15 years from retirement.
In summary, you should be enjoying your NIC series (guessing). But yes, FL's communication talents are abysmal.
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I’m not a lawyer so I cannot comment on that but it sounds like they tried to help.
As previously stated, they are terrible with communication. I got hopeful when they changed editors that communication would get better but it hasn’t. A quarterly update isn’t too much to ask.
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On what grounds? You have already received a remedy from them that includes a release from the contract you had with them.
Personally I would not take legal action against them over EEC. Seeking to harm the company and as a result potentially it’s customers is not something I want to do.
David Duckitt said:After being a customer for more than 10 years, I am now thinking of suing Faithlife over the EEC. Is anyone else?
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“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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EEC is off my buy list- sold the set I had previously purchased several years back when it was first on pre-pub, why you ask- I'll be dead before I get them all- so took the $$ and ran with it.
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Thanks for your reply. I didn't ask for a refund - I expressly said that I didn't want one. I was looking for help getting use of an equivalent commentary series as they hadn't been able to deliver on their promises. I am sure I would enjoy the NIC (or something similar) if I had it. That was the whole point of me "reaching out" to FL in the first place. Incidentally, not once in my communications with them have FL offered any explanation for the delay or indication of when any further volumes will be available.
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Thanks for your reply. I had fully performed my side of the contract when I paid them 10 years ago. Sadly, FL have not been able to do the same. When I first contacted them I said I didn't want to cause them harm. I didn't want to get money from them. I just wanted them to help me get use of an equivalent complete commentary set. The remedy they have imposed doesn't even put me back in the position I was in 10 years ago, let alone where I would have been now if they had been good to their word. More importantly, I still don't have access to such a commentary set.
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David Duckitt said:
Thanks for your reply. I had fully performed my side of the contract when I paid them 10 years ago. Sadly, FL have not been able to do the same. When I first contacted them I said I didn't want to cause them harm. I didn't want to get money from them. I just wanted them to help me get use of an equivalent complete commentary set. The remedy they have imposed doesn't even put me back in the position I was in 10 years ago, let alone where I would have been now if they had been good to their word. More importantly, I still don't have access to such a commentary set.
When I signed up for EEC to me it was an investment in a project. So to me I was knowingly taking a risk on the project that already had a troubled start. FL did not hide that fact. And as a project I was also fully aware of the risk of it not meeting projected dates.
Am I disappointed with how things have turned out? Yes
Am I disappointed with FL and Bob Pritchett with their lack of communication on this project ? Yes
So I do get and respect your disappointment, feeling you have been left short changed by FL.
But entering into the investment knowing the risks I personally would not think of taking legal action. And so my response to your question.
In addition to asking on the forums what people think, you need to search your heart and pray about what the right thing is for you to do.
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DIsciple II said:
Am I disappointed with FL and Bob Pritchett with their lack of communication on this project ? Yes
Agreed. But I'd suspect this whole project was never 'solid' .... meaning, commitments from busy professors were likely 'will try', and a long list of intervening events. The WBC Daniel update, to me, spoke volumes on the problem of 'one more commentary' ... one more 'yet again'.
I'm not tremendously familiar with Baylor Handbooks, but the problem looks similar (without the customer full-on initial buy ... I wonder what that was about ... seems guaranteed fail).
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I am glad that they opened the series up to non subscribers. And I understand how that upset subscribers.
My question on that change is did they need more funds to finance the set?
My comment is that the volume on Revelation will not be released until it is ancient history.
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Jake Mailhot (Faithlife) said:
Hello all,
I've got an update on a few volumes from our academic editor:
[quote]On the NT side, both Michael Burer (Galatians) and Buist Fanning (Hebrews) are close to submitting manuscripts. On the OT side, Richard Averbeck is supposed to submit his manuscript for Leviticus this fall. Additionally the OT editors are close to completing a review of both John Oswalt’s 1–2 Kings and Abner Chou’s Deuteronomy. That's in addition to Joshua and 1 & 2 Chronicles which were already in review with the OT editors.
All of these volumes still have to go through author revision and editorial review, and since that process is unique to each volume the timeline is difficult to predict. It's possible some of these volumes will be on the publication schedule for the second half of 2022. Lexham and the series editors are working diligently to get the manuscripts in great condition and out into the world.
Thanks for your continued patience and support for the series.
Just thought I would check for an end of 2021 update to the EEC. Thx!
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Jake Mailhot (Faithlife) said:
Hello all,
I've got an update on a few volumes from our academic editor:
[quote]On the NT side, both Michael Burer (Galatians) and Buist Fanning (Hebrews) are close to submitting manuscripts. On the OT side, Richard Averbeck is supposed to submit his manuscript for Leviticus this fall. Additionally the OT editors are close to completing a review of both John Oswalt’s 1–2 Kings and Abner Chou’s Deuteronomy. That's in addition to Joshua and 1 & 2 Chronicles which were already in review with the OT editors.
All of these volumes still have to go through author revision and editorial review, and since that process is unique to each volume the timeline is difficult to predict. It's possible some of these volumes will be on the publication schedule for the second half of 2022. Lexham and the series editors are working diligently to get the manuscripts in great condition and out into the world.
Thanks for your continued patience and support for the series.
Hi Jake,
We're well into the second-half of 2022. What should we expect to see and when, please?
Thank you,
Ben Headrick
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Any updates?
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Please respond with a message to Hebrews in the EEC series to appear in 2022. I am writing my thesis and need this volume badly. Please tell me when it REALLY comes out???????????????????
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Please respond with a message to Hebrews in the EEC series to appear in 2022. I am writing my thesis and need this volume badly. Please tell me when it REALLY comes out???????????????????
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Last year in July it was said that Buist Fanning was close to submitting a manuscript. The status on their main page still says it’s in writing. when that is finished, it would still have to be reviewed by the editors and then any revisions would need to be made before it could be published, and we would know in advance if It was being put in print soon. I would say if you need it in the next year, you are most likely out of luck.
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- Thank you
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You might contact Dr Fanning. The response will be much quicker!
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How can I contact Dr Fanning?
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Dr. Fanning will only know his part of delivering and modifying the manuscript - he has no knowledge of the editing and production process timeline that Faithlife is responsible for.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Евгений said:
How can I contact Dr Fanning?
In general, if you want to find out how to contact a scholar, Google them, as they usually publish their contact info publicly. Dr Fanning's email address is on his page at his institution, Dallas Theological Seminary:
https://www.dts.edu/employee/buist-fanning/
But as MJ pointed out, he won't know the final timeline, as that will be up to how fast Faithlife can publish it once he sends them the final manuscript. He also might not want to divulge his own personal deadline to some random inquirer who found his email address online, but you could always try.
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Thank you
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Thank you
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Rosie,
My experience has been great with emailing seminary professors. In fact most of them get right back with in hours or even a day later. Most who interact on the net are glad to chat and answer questions. I am glad most of the scholars today while working at what the world calls ivory towers are humble, godly men who want to help the body of Christ grow. May they continue to encourage and help those of us in need of amazing resources.
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And if you do happen to get a response, let us know! We are very interested in hearing any updates whatsoever
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Well, as we enter another year, are there any updates as to potential volumes that may be upcoming? Is there any hope for a volume to be released this year?
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Jacob Sowles said:
Well, as we enter another year, are there any updates as to potential volumes that may be upcoming? Is there any hope for a volume to be released this year?
Maybe Jake left? Or he posts every couple years?
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It would be nice to know the contact person for the EEC is at Faithlife.
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DMB said:
Maybe Jake left? Or he posts every couple years?
I'm still here. [;)]
Jacob Sowles said:Well, as we enter another year, are there any updates as to potential volumes that may be upcoming? Is there any hope for a volume to be released this year?
Since coming on as General Editor, Tremper Longman and the rest of the EEC editorial team has been hard at work behind the scenes getting the series on track. We've contracted a number of new authors for volumes that had languished for years and are very excited about the caliber of scholarship that will be on display once the series is completed. As for volumes that are closest to publication, the revised manuscripts for both Job and Galatians are currently in-house and are being prepared for publication. We don't have final release dates for those volumes yet.
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Thanks Jake for the update.
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Thanks Jake for the update.
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Yes, thank you, Jake, for the update. We'll keep our eyes peeled.
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Thanks for replying! This is excellent news! Looking forward to two more volumes coming soon.
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Thank you Jake.
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That sounds great. Thanks for the update. Looking forward to the new volumes.
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Still looks like Revelation will not be published until it is history instead of prophecy.
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David Ames said:
Still looks like Revelation will not be published until it is history instead of prophecy.
An accidental description of theological views of the Apocalypse!
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I bought this when it first came out, 9/14/ 11. This is the last update in 2 years and 8 months. Highly disappointed in the time you have taken with the series. Since 2018 you have published 1 BOOK. I want my money back.
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I guess one of the problems is that the money paid 10 years ago (by people such as me) has long since disappeared into the background of faithlife’s running costs, salaries etc. So money expended now by logos on new volumes will not generate as significant a return as if it were a new series. The majority of shipments of new volumes in this series will just be to those who’s money has already been received and spent and so not financially worthwhile.0
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I guess one of the problems is that the money paid 10 years ago (by people such as me) has long since disappeared into the background of faithlife’s running costs, salaries etc. So money expended now by logos on new volumes will not generate as significant a return as if it were a new series. The majority of shipments of new volumes in this series will just be to those who’s money has already been received and spent and so not financially worthwhile.0
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Mark Maloney said:
The majority of shipments of new volumes in this series will just be to those who’s money has already been received and spent and so not financially worthwhile.
Probably doesn't inform FL's performance on their contract. Instead, contributors. I'd be curious what their evangelical excuses were/are. I'm assuming Bob's planned ship date years ago was based on contributor commitments.
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Jake, the last volume published was Daniel in 2020. So three years later we are waiting still for the next release.
I have a record of everything you have said and none of it lines up. You are the face of EEC. Yet, it's my sincere belief you don't even know what's going on.
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I must admit I have finally given up waiting on Logos to fulfil my order from 2014 for this set. So I just emailed customer services to ask for some sort of refund, perhaps in the form of a Logos credit voucher.
I think that is reasonable given the initial promised dates at time of the order and the lack of keeping those dates. But maybe I am wrong.
I'll let you know how it goes in case someone else is thinking of doing the same!
Jim
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