Logos need to do something about Logos
Comments
-
I'm sorry you're having a poor experience with Logos. We regularly have to make hard choices about what we're going to do and not do and what we're going to optimize for. We tend to optimize for breadth: breadth of platforms, users, denominations, languages, library/content size and mediums, apps, etc.
- Platforms: Windows, Mac, the web, iOS/iPadOS, and Android
- Users: pastors, lay leaders, scholars, professors, students, and anyone looking for a serious tool for Bible study
- Denominations: evangelicals, Catholics, and Orthodox users of a variety of stripes
- Languages: English, Spanish, German, Korean, Portuguese, and Mandarin Chinese (Traditional and Simplified) speakers with French in the works and others on the roadmap
- Library/content size and mediums: books, video courses, audiobooks, media, etc.
- Apps: Logos, Verbum, Faithlife Ebooks, etc.
We believe that this optimization toward breadth allows us to best fulfill our vision to increase biblical literacy and accessibility for every Christian around the world.
But in order to achieve that breadth, we have to make some trade-offs. One of those trade-offs is that we optimize for SSDs over HDDs, for example. Logos 8 was much faster at indexing, but only for SSD users.
I'm sorry that Logos isn't meeting your needs well right now. We'll keep working to serve you and as many people as we can and consider the right trade-offs to make regarding older hardware, access to the internet, internet speed, etc.
You might have a better experience on the web app, where more of the performance heavy lifting happens on the server rather than on your local machine. We still intended to bring more of the desktop's capabilities there, while keeping a focus on leveraging the web for scale and performance in a way that we can't on desktop.
0 -
Thanks for responding, Phil.
Just a suggestion: If Logos can be automatically or manually set to aggressively populate memory (Large Memory Caching as a Program Setting?) I am sure even with a physical HDD the lags will be minimized if RAM and CPU are up to the task.0 -
Lee said:
If Logos can be automatically or manually set to aggressively populate memory (Large Memory Caching as a Program Setting?)
You've mentioned this several times, but I haven't been able to find a good definition of what this might mean: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Large+Memory+Caching%22 doesn't seem to have relevant results. Can you provide a definition?
0 -
Sorry, I made up the term. It just means a setting for Logos to aggressively populate memory, including loading substantial portions, even the entire index into RAM. It could be done automatically, or manually (opt-out, or opt-in).
I thought of this since David's machine already runs Photoshop and video NLE applications well. Disk I/O is his only bottleneck. Those applications often populate memory very aggressively. Example of fine-grain memory usage settings
0 -
lol
0 -
I went over my library which has over 3700 resources. Probably at least 3000 are not relevant for me and are taking space and probably lowering performance. So I have uninstalled a LOT of stuff that I know I won't use. It seems like it has improved performance.
0 -
I still have an old 2012 Mac Mini that uses a HDD. Setting it to open without any layout and without running any updates on opening works wonders over the factory preset. It's running the latest Catalina which is vastly better for Logos than the previous OS. My library is enormous, but that really only gets in the way with updating/indexing. I might get an SSD in it still, but everything went on the backburner with the COVID roadblock
It's a snail compared to my Win laptop, but it's fine for many simple chores. And I use the same settings on my faster machine too. Starting with a clean desk in Logos is much like a regular clean desk. You decide what to do first rather than assume you must deal with what you looked at last. It's in the layouts if you need it.
The mind of man is the mill of God, not to grind chaff, but wheat. Thomas Manton | Study hard, for the well is deep, and our brains are shallow. Richard Baxter
0 -
Lee said:
Sorry, I made up the term. It just means a setting for Logos to aggressively populate memory, including loading substantial portions, even the entire index into RAM. It could be done automatically, or manually (opt-out, or opt-in).
On Windows, memory-mapped file I/O is used extensively to accomplish this. (Use a tool like RAMMap or VMMap to investigate/demonstrate. I don't know enough about the macOS virtual memory system to comment on how effective it is on that platform.)
0 -
On Windows, memory-mapped file I/O is used extensively to accomplish this. (Use a tool like RAMMap or VMMap to investigate/demonstrate. I don't know enough about the macOS virtual memory system to comment on how effective it is on that platform.)
I assume you mean that in Windows index is already aggressively loaded into memory. On a PC which has 64GB RAM, with only Logos running in an extensive layout, memory usage hovers around 550MB according to Task Manager. A power user may wish to have more aggressive memory usage (for reduction of disk I/O).
I don't know enough about the macOS virtual memory system to comment on how effective it is on that platform.
The same strategies could probably be used to minimize disk I/O. AFAIK Photoshop has very similar settings on both Windows and Mac platforms to minimize disk I/O.
0 -
Lee said:
according to Task Manager
Don't use Task Manager; use a tool like VMMap to see a process's true memory usage (including cached files).
0 -
Fired up VMMap and traced Logos. Did a few broad searches like the term "God" to trawl the index.
Logos appears to be impressively sleek on memory usage, which is terrific in most cases:
On a system with disk I/O bottleneck and plenty of RAM, an alternative strategy of load and stay might work better. I don't know enough of the internal structure of Logos.exe to comment, but David's computer is very likely to be I/O bound.
0 -
Lee said:
David's computer is very likely to be I/O bound.
Well, it IS page 4. (If earlier on the thread, the statement would be 'Logos is likely I/O bound.' ... for the last 10 years).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0
