Necessary library for Biblical Languages Videos
Comments
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if you look close to the bottom of the product page for Learning to Use Biblical Hebrew and Greek
it is recommended to have Scholar's Library plus some other resources.
Additional
Details
Over 15 hours of content taught by Dr. Mike Heiser and Johnny
Cisneros using Logos 4. That is equivalent content of an entire college
class!
Covers the tools you would get in three years of traditional
Greek and Hebrew classes.
Videos come on 2 DVD-ROMs. The DVDs are designed for your
computer and will not play in a normal DVD player. The videos are
formatted in h.264 (HD) and optimized for Quicktime 7 and Windows Media
Player 12.
A web-like user interface is included.
Leave the content on the DVD, or copy it to your hard drive.
All videos have chapter markers, so you can easily navigate to
the exact spot you need.
No knowledge of Greek or Hebrew is required. Even English
grammar is explained.
No rote memorization of vocabulary lists, grammatical forms, or
paradigms.
Scholar’s Library
is recommended. Also recommended, but not required: BDAG and A Concise Hebrew
and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament (Holladay).0 -
Scholars + BDAG + HALOT would be recommended.
If you really want to make an investment (and apply your cost of purchasing BDAG & HALOT to a whole iibrary) you may want to know that BDAG is included in the platinum library and HALOT in the portfolio.
If you want to do anything with the original languages these lexicons and the language resources and tools included in Scholars really is a minimum requirement.
Jacob Hantla
Pastor/Elder, Grace Bible Church
gbcaz.org0 -
Thank you. I knew I had read somewhere that Scholars Library was what was recommended.
I have the Silver Scholars package so I felt pretty confident in ordering the videos. But it seems that the most basic aspects of the videos are not useful with this package. For example, the Enhanced Strongs Lexicon is referred to more often than anything except the ESV Interlinear in the first couple of videos. But the Enhanced Strongs is not in the Silver edition. Then at about 6:50 of the 3rd video he leaps into 7 more lexicons (but doesn't teach us how to do that...they just magically appear). After trying for roughly an hour to get them to appear, I discovered that those lexicons are also missing from my Silver library.
So this expensive (even at pre-pub pricing) collection of videos has so far taught me that I need to spend a lot more money just to be able to do the basics being taught. Even if I spend the $200 for BDAG & CHALOT, I will still be missing 4 of the volumes referred to in the first 2 Hebrew videos alone. What will I discover is missing when I watch videos 4+...let alone the Greek videos?I hope this makes sense.
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Mark,
Scholar's Silver should be just fine.
Enhanced Strong's doesn't seem to be a part of ANY base package.
What other lexicons don't you have? I had Scholar's Silver for a few years...it's a very comprehensive package!
EDITED TO ADD: I checked the 3rd Greek video, at 6:50 and he's using the Holman Illustrated bible dictionary...no lexicons.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Mark E. Ryman said:
So this expensive (even at pre-pub pricing) collection of videos has so far taught me that I need to spend a lot more money just to be able to do the basics being taught. Even if I spend the $200 for BDAG & CHALOT, I will still be missing 4 of the volumes referred to in the first 2 Hebrew videos alone. What will I discover is missing when I watch videos 4+...let alone the Greek videos?
I can imagine that you wonder how much you can get from these at this point. I hope you will be rewarded by what you see Logos being able to do for you with even more limited resources. If Logos had said a person had to have Scholar's Platinum edition and then some to benefit, they would have had few takers, and I don't think those users were the only ones they wanted to help.
If they pitched this at people with only Scholar's then those with more would be dissatisfied if only the very limited Scholar's resources were used.
If you think of this as a long-term investment, you may someday own all the resources referred to in the video. The video in fact will help you make good choices in what to add as your abilities and interests grow.
BTW: The Enhanced Strong's is a Nelson Logos product and is included in The Essential Bible Library. I don't believe Logos sells that directly so you'll have to look elsewhere for it. It is very inexpensive.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Mark E. Ryman said:
I will still be missing 4 of the volumes referred to in the first 2 Hebrew videos alone.
I would expect Logos to have used a variety of resources representing several common items so that everyone has some of the resources. I doubt that they expect you to have them all.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Mark A. Smith said:
I don't believe Logos sells that directly so you'll have to look elsewhere for it. It is very inexpensive.
Yep....it's available at Logos:
http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/STRONGS
but you're right...it's inexpensive.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
Yep....it's available at Logos:
Actually I meant The Essential Bible Library is not carried by Logos.
I just learned that Nelson offers the 'Enhanced Strong's' for free. http://www.nelsonministryservices.com/nms/dept.asp?dept_id=5076&ref=11537
The funny thing is they don't list an 'enhanced' Strong's as a separate resource on their site so I am not sure what you are getting.The version you linked to is actually the best of the Strong's lexicons available in Logos format. It costs a little more than free but might be worth it for someone who really likes to start with Strong's.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Keep in mind that if you only have Scholar's Library, you will not have a few of the resources that the narrator uses. This may trouble the basic beginner but the more intermediate users will not mind. Advanced users are way beyond this video series and are wasting their money purchasing it.
John H Pavelko
Crossroads Presbyterian Church
Walled Lake MI
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Robert Pavich said:
Mark,
Scholar's Silver should be just fine.
Enhanced Strong's doesn't seem to be a part of ANY base package.
What other lexicons don't you have? I had Scholar's Silver for a few years...it's a very comprehensive package!
EDITED TO ADD: I checked the 3rd Greek video, at 6:50 and he's using the Holman Illustrated bible dictionary...no lexicons.
I am doing the Hebrew videos. At 6:50 of the 3rd video (Hebrew03-WordStudy) he is using the Enhanced Strongs, DBL Hebrew, BDB, HAL, CHALOT, TWOT, TLOT, VONT. Since he didn't tell us how to load those and I've gotten bogged down at this point because I don't know what he is referring to, I'm not sure which lexicons I don't have—because I don't know yet what these abbreviations are and I don't know how to load them to find out.
The larger issue for me is what will happen next? What will I find out that I don't have when I continue the video?
It would seem that the course to take is to continue watching the series and see what develops. Perhaps I will determine I need a few more resources (or a lot). Maybe it will make perfect sense without additional books. Then again, I may get bogged down again as I so often seem to do when the teacher leaps about, making the assumption that the student knows what he's talking about.
I hope things pick up speed though. So far about all that has been said is that one doesn't need all of this other stuff. But it's what he's used so far. And that after he said we'd later want touse a couple of the volumes we're told to shelf because we'll never need them again—if we had the books to begin with. [;)] Let's hope that at the 7:00 point he starts teaching us how to really use the resource...instead of repeatedly telling us that he's going to do so. Then I will be able to determine what other volumes or upgrade I will need.
I thank everyone for their replies.
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Mark E. Ryman said:
I am doing the Hebrew videos. At 6:50 of the 3rd video (Hebrew03-WordStudy) he is using the Enhanced Strongs, DBL Hebrew, BDB, HAL, CHALOT, TWOT, TLOT, VONT. Since he didn't tell us how to load those and I've gotten bogged down at this point because I don't know what he is referring to, I'm not sure which lexicons I don't have—because I don't know yet what these abbreviations are and I don't know how to load them to find out.
I believe that if you listen carefully to what Dr Heiser is saying, he is actually discouraging the use of these lexicons until you have done the initial work yourself. He is particularly critical of Strong's.
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Jack Caviness said:
I believe that if you listen carefully to what Dr Heiser is saying, he is actually discouraging the use of these lexicons until you have done the initial work yourself. He is particularly critical of Strong's.
I listened carefully. I heard him say that over and over and over...while he uses them. He is telling us not to use something that he uses A LOT. So show us how to not use them.
Again, perhaps he will begin to do so after this point. But it's hard to follow along when you don't have what he is using for reference. It may have been more helpful to show us how to begin with instead of continuing the sales pitch. I bought the product.
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Mark,
Here is the list of what you have and don't have (but as Jack pointed out...these are just examples; Dr. Heiser is discouraging their use at the start)
Enhanced Strongs (already discussed) Not in any base package
DBL Hebrew (Dictionary of Biblical Languages Hebrew) you have it
BDB (Enhanced Brown, Driver, Briggs Hebrew / English Lexicon) you have it
HAL or HALOT (Hebrew Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament) No
CHALOT (Concise Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament) you have it
TWOT (Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament) you have it
TLOT (Theological Lexicon of the Old Testament) No
VONT (Vines complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words???) Not included in any base package.Things aren't as dismal as you think; this is just about all that's going to be referenced as far as Hebrew goes...don't get discouraged brother.
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
Mark,
Here is the list of what you have and don't have (but as Jack pointed out...these are just examples; Dr. Heiser is discouraging their use at the start)
Enhanced Strongs (already discussed) Not in any base package
DBL Hebrew (Dictionary of Biblical Languages Hebrew) you have it
BDB (Enhanced Brown, Driver, Briggs Hebrew / English Lexicon) you have it
HAL or HALOT (Hebrew Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament) No
CHALOT (Concise Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament) you have it
TWOT (Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament) you have it
TLOT (Theological Lexicon of the Old Testament) No
VONT (Vines complete Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words???) Not included in any base package.Things aren't as dismal as you think; this is just about all that's going to be referenced as far as Hebrew goes...don't get discouraged brother.
Thank you! I am pressing on.
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I am currently on Hebrew video 8 I believe (verb stems) and am following along and performing the exercises without a hick-up. I have the Scholars library minus BDAG/HALOT so these definitely are not required, in fact I have not felt that anything else is needed up to this point.
Jason
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I think it is important to note the kind of resource he suggests more then the repeated "don't do this, and here's why" hour plus of video (grrrr) about the problems with lexicons and strongs resources. I can't see how HALOT could begin to be comparatively useful until you've had at least a few years of Hebrew that you've kept up to date.
Two resources that are not mentioned that fit exactly what he talks about are the NIDOTTE and the NIDNTT. These two resource do exactly what he talks about: they discuss the terms in their context, talk about their theological implications, etc.. I'm guessing he didn't mention them because they are new zondervan resources that weren't available at the time when the video was being produced. TLOT is essentially a smaller version of NIDOTTE. On the Greek side, I would say you could also go with the TDNT instead of the NIDNTT, but for my money, NIDOTTE is the absolute best possible resource for this kind of study!
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