Counseling guide working details for P & C
Comments
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Rene Atchley said:
would be "professionals" doing therapy based on a few articles in a half baked app.
So Pastors sought for counsel need to be psychiatrists?
How many of the following particular issues are actually "mental health" related?
https://www.logos.com/product/45345/hope-for-the-heart-biblical-counseling-library
I am trying to understand what is the proper procedure for Pastors that want to help persons is in accordance to some of the other views in the thread such as yours.
According to one article:
- Marital infidelity. Many pastors lamented the horrendous damage done to marriages and families when one or more of the spouses are not faithful.
- Divorce. Obviously, the first two are related. A number of pastors said that those who come to them with divorce on their minds usually have their minds made up. Counseling is either a formality or an appeasement toward a favorable divorce settlement.
- Sexual and physical abuse. Some pastors said this issue was the fastest-growing topic in counseling. They don’t think sexual and physical abuse is new; more victims are now willing to come forward.
- Mental health issues. Depression and anxiety were mentioned frequently, but others were noted such as schizophrenia and borderline personality disorder.
- Teen sexual issues. More teens are seeking help with issues of sexual identity, sexual pressure, and sexually transmitted diseases.
- Addiction. Though alcoholism is still very much an issue, a number of pastors spoke of other addictions such as heroin and other opioids.
- Church conflict. Church fights lead many members to counseling. Lack of church unity has far-reaching consequences.
- Loss of a child. This issue is a nightmare for the parents, and often requires long-term counseling. A number of pastors expressed willingness to do this counseling for the longer-term than many of the other issues.
- Death of a loved one. This category would include the loss of all other loved ones beyond the death of a child.
- Lack of forgiveness; bitterness. I had my expectations of what issues would arise before I put the question before pastors. This one surprised me, though it probably should have been expected. I guess I didn’t expect those who were bitter to seek counseling. Apparently, I was wrong.
https://churchanswers.com/blog/the-ten-most-challenging-counseling-issues-pastors-face/
Mental health is one sub category. Are you. trying to say that all should be dealt with from the mental health point of view?
How can Pastors trying to help persons (in very good faith), can be helped to be more effective at giving sound advice (Bible jibing, IAW the nature and character of God, and not violating standards of care)?
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Rene:
You have piqued my curiosity about the topic of counseling. Since you are a trained practitioner or in training can you answer some questions for me?
How much of your methodology respond to Carl Jung's principles?
How true can the following be with respect to Mr. Jung?:
I think I read in some resource that most modern methodology is of a Jungian lean, if so can you clarify to us what is the relation of Jung's ideology to occultism?
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While the topic has some interest this thread seems little more than just a discussion topic fully unrelated to anything to do with Logos Counseling app. Again brings me back to one of the problems unleashing a theological hominization of historically complex and diverse topics that are hundred(s) or thousands of years old.
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Hamilton Ramos said:
How much of your methodology respond to Carl Jung's principles?
How true can the following be with respect to Mr. Jung?:
I think I read in some resource that most modern methodology is of a Jungian lean, if so can you clarify to us what is the relation of Jung's ideology to occultism?
Jung is critical to the understanding of religious symbolism, mythology, ritual, perennial philosophy etc. in the same way that Durkheim and Otto are essential. But given the current catalogue, I believe it is safe to say that despite user requests Faithlife considers religious studies outside their scope and therefore outside the scope of the forums.
OT: to the best of my knowledge, Jungian psychology is a specialty not a general practice. I remember that you and I have a different understanding of the meaning of the English word "occult". If you read Jung (yes, I own many of his works), his interest is in the symbolism of the mind which is employed in religion, the occult, perennial philosophy, et. al.Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Yes MJ:
I bought some books from ex noet about Jung's writings to check what is about. From other interesting resources in Logos I kind of spot that individualism / individualization is a concept Jung brought to psychology and that seems to be problematic for some:
I suppose some of the stuff that Jung brought to psychology may have some application, I'll have to see.
Now as you mention not all counseling / therapy streams are following Jung, so one homework is to check what other approaches there are, and what they are about. Maybe they offer better tools to get the job done.
I found two more interesting resources that seem to have something interesting to say:
https://www.logos.com/product/173502/living-biblically-ten-guides-for-fulfillment-and-happiness
As usual, if it was not for robust dialogue that bounces ideas off in the forums, I would probably not have found such.
Peace and grace.
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First someone essentially says the
CG is useless, then says the CG is all this thread is about. No, this thread is about the relation between P&C ministry and the CG. P&C's are known for supernatural ministry (that includes deliverance). Resources, topic inclusion, etc. are among the things we are talking about from a P&C perspective. All are welcome to participate, but let's not lose sight of the fact that this thread is directed at P&C's.
In this thread, one insinuates that their highly educated livelihood is the way, thus making the CG essentially useless. Another points out that God gave uneducated fishermen the keys to ministry, including deliverance. Psst! The key is the Holy Spirit, not education. Thus, the CG is perfectly helpful as a supplementary tool to aid anyone moving in the ministry of the Holy Spirit.
When someone comes to you with a hurt or problem, you don't say, "What's your insurance? We need to call a psyciatrist". No, You look them in the eye and, first, love them and comfort them and speak truth and pray with them. That is counsel. That is ministry. Considering that, the CG is indeed useful to the everyday Christian. I see the CG as a tool that's going to make the body of Christ more effective in responding to issues. The CG simply gives us quicker access to resources.
Lastly, in my time, I've seen Spirit-filled children, college students, and barely literate Africans minister and counsel more effectively than many professional counselors. That, my friends,is something that makes me go, Hmmm...
I'm thankful for the CG and for all of you. I hope Logos will continue to expand it's deliverance resources and include that as a topic in the CG.
'Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.' (2 Corinthians 3:17, NIV)0 -
Rene Atchley said:
fully unrelated to anything to do with Logos Counseling app.
Your interpretation, I think the counseling module in Logos is a good step forward in the right direction, but what is more important is to develop critical thinking in the users of the same so they can do good instead of harm in their effort to help sheep.
Even though you mentioned very old resources, with obsolete information, I think there are some that may seem to have a timeless message, that gets to the heart of the matter. One such is:
In one aspect of the conversation you are correct: it is important for people to study well what type of approach one chooses to base therapy, and counseling, because any tainted with occultism has nothing to do with tending the true sheep of God.
And to be clear, a neat short definition of occultism:
THE TERM OCCULT IS BASED ON the Latin word occultus, meaning that which is hidden from view or covered up. Most commonly the term is applied to attempts to gain secret or forbidden information or achieve spiritual powers and control through supernatural means such as astrology, fortune telling, psychics, spiritism, kabbalah, parapsychology, witchcraft, magick, paganism, and satanism. From a christian perspective, occult describes any attempt to gain supernatural knowledge or power apart from the God of the bible.
Hindson, E., & Caner, E. (2008). The popular encyclopedia of apologetics: surveying the evidence for the truth of christianity. Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers.
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Scott said:
First someone essentially says the
CG is useless, then says the CG is all this thread is about. No, this thread is about the relation between P&C ministry and the CG. P&C's are known for supernatural ministry (that includes deliverance). Resources, topic inclusion, etc. are among the things we are talking about from a P&C perspective. All are welcome to participate, but let's not lose sight of the fact that this thread is directed at P&C's.
In this thread, one insinuates that their highly educated livelihood is the way, thus making the CG essentially useless. Another points out that God gave uneducated fishermen the keys to ministry, including deliverance. Psst! The key is the Holy Spirit, not education. Thus, the CG is perfectly helpful as a supplementary tool to aid anyone moving in the ministry of the Holy Spirit.
When someone comes to you with a hurt or problem, you don't say, "What's your insurance? We need to call a psyciatrist". No, You look them in the eye and, first, love them and comfort them and speak truth and pray with them. That is counsel. That is ministry. Considering that, the CG is indeed useful to the everyday Christian. I see the CG as a tool that's going to make the body of Christ more effective in responding to issues. The CG simply gives us quicker access to resources.
Lastly, in my time, I've seen Spirit-filled children, college students, and barely literate Africans minister and counsel more effectively than many professional counselors. That, my friends,is something that makes me go, Hmmm...
I'm thankful for the CG and for all of you. I hope Logos will continue to expand it's deliverance resources and include that as a topic in the CG.
'Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.' (2 Corinthians 3:17, NIV)Amen brother, praise the Lord. Crystal clear.
Peace and grace.
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A very good collection to get informed about the counseling details:
https://www.logos.com/product/192068/christian-association-for-psychological-studies
I wonder if a resource like the Catholic Topical Index can be created taking the info in the above series and other similar as base:
"Counseling topical index" where one could look to the 500 most important keywords and see where in the books the info is.
Is there a "Catholic Topical Index" template anywhere? can one be made using Personal book builder?
Peace and grace.
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Rene Atchley said:
This whole thread has clearly shown the problem(s) with using a theological doorway to understand therapeutic consideration by non licensed individuals.
I wonder if there's a Logos resource that discusses that... [;)]
Rene Atchley said:I wonder if FL legal department has taken into account would be "professionals" doing therapy based on a few articles in a half baked app...things that makes me go Hmmmm.
I haven't noticed any legally dubious claims on the part of Faithlife with regard to counselling/therapy. As such, were I them, I would perhaps be more concerned about the moral/ethical issues. But then, Google will let you find any number of websites with resources that can get non-licensed people into the same sorts of problems... it's complicated.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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MJ. Smith said:
But given the current catalogue, I believe it is safe to say that despite user requests Faithlife considers religious studies outside their scope and therefore outside the scope of the forums.
Not disagreeing, but (as I imagine you are aware) they do carry "Religious Studies" works, such as many of those listed here: https://general.ebooks.faithlife.com/search?context=product&sortBy=Bestselling&limit=60&page=1&filters=status-live_Status%2Bgenre-religion_Genre&ownership=all&geographicAvailability=all
(For clarity, I am using the term "religious studies" to mean "sociology of religion", with both of the terms "sociology" and "religion" understood broadly.)
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
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