Wondering Why the NIV, NRSV and NETS are the best translations? Now you know.
Comments
-
MJ. Smith said:
Very simple "translations" often butcher the text by removing all the relationships between the clauses in order to make simple sentences. I prefer to minimize the use of children's and paraphrased Bibles.
I agree, but the people that most need these translations often fail to understand the relationship between the clauses. Not just for reading and English reasons, but sometimes because they fail to understand the relationships. In my tutoring, I had to spend a lot of time teaching the difference between "because" and "after". What people "should" understand and what they do understand can be radically different. "Because" and "after" are fairly advanced ideas.
Clauses require multitasking. Some people cannot multitask. Cursive requires even more multitaking than reading clauses. With cursive, you have to think about the next letter before you finish writing the one being written, so that you can choose the right connector.
It is critical that we meet people exactly where they are, and work up from there, step by step. These people are often easily discouraged and have not always been treated with dignity. They are often fragile in multiple ways. I was super careful not to let my tutoring students fail or think that my failure were their failures. I always told them that all failures were mine, and to give me time to pull back and try something else.
0 -
Kathleen Marie said:
It is critical that we meet people exactly where they are,
It is equally important that we don't underestimate their abilities and potential - a person may not be able to read & write enough to pay his bills and still be able to correctly price most collectible coins (a real example from personal experience).
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Kathleen Marie said:
It is critical that we meet people where they are, and work up from there, step by step. These people are easily discouraged and have not been treated with. They are fragile in multiple ways. I was super careful not to let my tutoring fail or think that my were their failures. I told them that all failures were mine, and to give me time to pull back and try something else.
Couldn't agree more Kathleen. I am learning the biblical languages because I have the aptitude to do so, and I want to be able to notice the nuisances that get lost in English translations because I have an curiosity to be aware of these things and want to understand them. But I don't see that makes someone who has different gifting to me, and for them an 'easy-English' version is at the right level for them to be able to ready confidently and their curiosity in life is directed at other things any less than me. They will be much better than me at other tasks I don't excel at performing because I have no natural inclination or curiosity about those things. The Body of Christ, the Church, is made up of a wide range of people. Sure, they miss some things between the lines, that I might notice because of their different readying ability but if they understand the gospel message, and have put their faith in God, they are equally a brother or sister in Christ. Our reading comprehension level has no bearing on our ability to be in relationship with God and receive is saving grace.
0 -
MJ. Smith said:Kathleen Marie said:
It is critical that we meet people exactly where they are,
It is equally important that we don't underestimate their abilities and potential - a person may not be able to read & write enough to pay his bills and still be able to correctly price most collectible coins (a real example from personal experience).
I agree. I said in an earlier post how brilliant these people are, with their own special skills that the church needs. But starting at a person's current reading level and moving up step by step with a systematic plan is not underestimating people.
I am not looking down on these people. It is the opposite. These people have special gifts that are not as common in people with higher reading levels, and the church needs those gifts. We cannot afford to waste these people. They need to be at the center of things, not at the edges. A person is seldom at the center, or in a place of leadership without a complete Bible that they can understand. Some people will transition to another translation; some will not. The church body is made up of different parts and this is good as long as we work together and follow the directions in Scripture on how to do this.
The NIrV is a tool. No tool is the only tool. I am just glad that Logos will soon be adding this tool to our toolbox. I can stop using my screw drivers and wrenches as hammers. I really missed having a hammer.
0 -
It seems to me that MJ has been primarily writing in this thread about adults and children who do not have learning disabilities (but have varying levels of education), whereas Kathleen has been focusing on people who do have learning (and/or other relevant) disabilities, and that this difference is obscuring where their positions do and do not differ.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
0 -
You're close. There is also a difference on the importance of reading which causes me to me more concerned about patronizing and Kathleen to be more concerned about going over the head. But, yes, we basically agree but have differences in emphasis.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
Today's ancient papyri shipped today, so I was happlily seeing what was included ... from 2,000+ years ago. I'm reluctant to use tiny samples to make broad generalizations. But the below quote was interesting ... language complexity can be reader-driven (who the intended was). I'd assume similarly the Text.
"In the simple construction of the sentences and the general absence of connecting particles, the letter is a good illustration of the epistolary style of the period."
0
