Logos 10 accessibility with screen readers
I am interested in upgrading to Logos 10. I am using the JAWS screen reader and would like to know if any improvements have been made regarding accessibility. In the Logos WIKI there is a detailed description of what NVDA can do with Logos that was written seven years ago but nothing about JAWS. This is a disappointing demonstration of Faithlife's care for its blind customers, several of whom have spend many tens of thousands of dollars on products despite lack of appropriate accessibility. Logos is required software on many campuses and lack of access makes it very difficult for students and professors to work. Additionally, churches are now adopting Logos, which means that pastors also cannot work adequately. (Yes, pastors can work after sight loss.) Please address our concerns. We have been posting for many years and the answer has always been more improvements, bells and whistles for everyone else and not even basic access to the reading pane with a braille display for us. The JAWS screen reader can narrate out loud in say all mode but I cannot read by paragraphs as the WIKI claims NVDA can do and I certainly cannot see a Hebrew word, select any words, or access the cross-linking features. These are features that are so valuable to sighted users of Logos and these alone would make Logos invaluable to me. They are not even too visual for me to use. I have attempted to be polite and explain the workings of JAWS over these many years. I remain available to continue to do this as a consultant. Usability testing has been part of my working role since 2002, when I was employed with Freedom Scientific (now Vespero, Inc.) I am posting here (again) to ask that Faithlife please do the thing that is morally and ethically right and avail itself of the expertise of people with disabilities to make the improvements that have been needed since 2011 when tthis software moved away from Libronix, which was accessible to us. You have the size and resources to develop software in multiple languages and establish educational programs across the world. Please do not ignore the people in your own back yard. We are also your customers. Perhaps you also need an educational program in disability theology. You might be surprised at how well it would be received. Of course, we would need proper access in order to be able to deliver it, unless you brought in people who didn't need the access. 
Sarah Blake LaRose, D.Min.
Logos user since 2007
Comments
-
[U]
0 -
I am using the JAWS screen reader and would like to know if any improvements have been made regarding accessibility.
I am not aware of any accessibility improvements relevant to the JAWS screen reader, unfortunately.
Offhand, the one accessibility improvement that I can think of that is in Logos/Verbum 10 is in the mobile app, which is now capable of reading all resources bought from Faithlife aloud.
“The trouble is that everyone talks about reforming others and no one thinks about reforming himself.” St. Peter of Alcántara
0 -
try web in limited view mode...
0 -
Hi Sarah,
You've stated this very eloquently. Many of us working in Bible translation feel the same way. There are several of us who will need to quite working in Bible Translation because of the lack of accessibility in Logos. Lets keep pushing for change.
Lynette Wilson
Bible Translation Consultant in training
0 -
I am not sure what "limited view mode" is. Last time I went to the web app for Logos, there were numerous unlabeled buttons that made it very inhospitable to a screen reader. I remain convinced that Logos has the resources should they wish to explore with us ways to actually develop an interface that preserves the features that sighted people love while providing access for people with disabilities.
Sarah Blake LaRose, D.Min.
Logos user since 2007
0 -
Hi Lynette. Thanks for your kind comments. I would be interested in more of your perspectives regarding Bible translation and accessibility. I am giving a presentation in June at the Institute on Theology and Disability regarding the need for accessible texts and materials in faith communities. I would be happy to dialogue with people about this.
Sarah Blake LaRose, D.Min.
Logos user since 2007
0 -
Hi Sarah,
I too am very interested to have Logos available for vision impaired people. I've been a Bible translator for 20 years, but am now losing my central vision. I've talked with Lynette and another Bible translation consultant and my NVDA tutor, and we've found no good solution to using NVDA (or any screen reader) with Logos. The only alternative I see is to pay someone to sit next to me to read to me. I'm happy to talk further, and would be thrilled to hear of a solution.
Catharina Williams-van Klinken
Dili, East Timor
0 -
I do not know your layout on web, mine the dashboard is hidden by choice. if yours is that way, then at the bottom theres a slash, click it and go down to settings and hit yes enable limited view... also, the mobile app has really ben improved also, and there are now labels on a good bit of the web app... logos may have some problems but it is such a blessing despite the issues.
0 -
I find voiceover does a decent job at greek.
0 -
I've found that Greek is the one language that doesn't work for me on Voiceover. It is stuck at an extremely high speed whereas I can slow the speed for all the other languages. I just can't hear the Greek fast enough to make sense of it and have no way to slow it down.
As for the mobile app, for my work, I need to have many commentaries open at once and tracking together. This works on the PC app, but the screen reader doesn't work on the PC. Menus are unreadable.
Yes, I can read one commentary at a time, but have no way to keep up with the workload without the multiple resource functionality. The web app is not tagged for screen readers and my resources are not readable on the web.
0 -
I also find that Voiceover misses many Greek characters as it reads so that it mispronounces words. When I go character by character through the Greek, it is unable to read many of the vowels if they have accent marks. It simply doesn't read certain characters. What resource are you using that the Greek reads well in?
0 -
Hi James. I don’t know if you are using Logos with a screen reader. Perhaps not? Biblia.com still has numerous unlabeled fields that make it an access nightmare. Perhaps you could share more about how you are accessing this and that may give some perspective about your positive experience.
James Clark said:I do not know your layout on web, mine the dashboard is hidden by choice. if yours is that way, then at the bottom theres a slash, click it and go down to settings and hit yes enable limited view... also, the mobile app has really ben improved also, and there are now labels on a good bit of the web app... logos may have some problems but it is such a blessing despite the issues.
Sarah Blake LaRose, D.Min.
Logos user since 2007
0 -
Hi Lynette. Screen readers are configured by default for modern Greek. I have found some obscure text to speech options that handle Koine/classical Greek but I have not figured out how to integrate them with an existing screen reader. They are also expensive!!! I am using braille display with an add-on to JAWS that I developed for handling biblical languages. It doesn’t work in the Logos reader but will work with things that are exported. So that is how I am managing at this time. It really is an inferior situation because I can’t take advantage of cross-linking or comparison tools. I have demonstrated this to a Logos academic rep who discussed it on my behalf but it seems not to have made a difference. That demonstration was four years ago! Two years ago I did my best to teach a student to use the pronunciation features of Logos, which I cannot access. I had to learn where to tell him to put his mouse and click, without being able to do this myself. We got through it but it would have been so much more efficient if I had been familiar with what I was teaching!!! My ineptness was very apparent and this is totally preventable.
If I can do anything to be of help to those of you who are trying to work with losing your sight and keeping active in your careers, you are welcome to email me: sarah@sarahblakelarose.com
Lynette Wilson said:I also find that Voiceover misses many Greek characters as it reads so that it mispronounces words. When I go character by character through the Greek, it is unable to read many of the vowels if they have accent marks. It simply doesn't read certain characters. What resource are you using that the Greek reads well in?
Sarah Blake LaRose, D.Min.
Logos user since 2007
0 -
while I readily admit its not perfect, I use apple voiceover, the ipad or phone works fine, it works quite well for my needs, if you go character by character, it helps. you can also go word by word. I use logos as my main greek reading platform, let me say something about that, the way the text is formatted you can go word by word without switching anything. that said I can go anywhere, however you may have to go to the roder and change to the greek voice on other places. once you get that down its just a matter of training your ears at least from my prospective.
0 -
Hi, I am a Ph.D. student in New Testament studies. I use Mac VoiceOver and Zoom to interact with the blblical text. I too would love to see greater accessibility features integrated into Logos.
0 -
with apple voiceover, you can go under roder and put greek in there, you can also slow the speech down if you want, this works on ipad and iphone, not sure on mac as its ben a while. thought I would put that out there, I am not on these forams much... but I did want to respond to those asking about that. also, my setup is ipad or iphone, lately these days its ipad or iphone and mobile app as its gotten much better. this works on any greek resource i've used. as for commentaries, now in mobile you clink commentaries to bibles so they track together...
0
