Why the wait on finished pre-pubs?

Splitting off from this thread, this post onwards: https://community.logos.com/forums/p/7685/1240916.aspx#1240916

TL,DR: For a long-awaited prepub, those of us who bought it in a Logos 10 base package have received it. Those who are in the pre-pub system otherwise haven't, and there's no estimated delivery date yet.

I cordially invite FL staff, and anyone else, to please give an explanation of this that makes sense.

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Comments

Joseph Turner

I think it's because when you have already purchased it in a package, then there is no harm to the user to go ahead and download it early; whereas, if you have ordered it via pre-pub, they have to stick to the release date because if they didn't, then some people would get a sudden and unexpected charge for the resource.

Sean

I think it's because when you have already purchased it in a package, then there is no harm to the user to go ahead and download it early; whereas, if you have ordered it via pre-pub, they have to stick to the release date because if they didn't, then some people would get a sudden and unexpected charge for the resource.

No release date has been given yet, so the pre-pubbers don't have any clue that it's done.

I also downloaded, under the same conditions, another resource that still shows as "Gathering Interest." That makes even less sense.

harm to the user

(I'm picking this up from others, not just you, so please don't think I'm picking on you:) This is a weird business model if giving the customer the product they want to buy is somehow considered to be harmful.

Jan Krohn

My guess is they want to encourage us to buy base packages.

Joseph Turner

I think it's because when you have already purchased it in a package, then there is no harm to the user to go ahead and download it early; whereas, if you have ordered it via pre-pub, they have to stick to the release date because if they didn't, then some people would get a sudden and unexpected charge for the resource.

No release date has been given yet, so the pre-pubbers don't have any clue that it's done.

I also downloaded, under the same conditions, another resource that still shows as "Gathering Interest." That makes even less sense.

harm to the user

(I'm picking this up from others, not just you, so please don't think I'm picking on you:) This is a weird business model if giving the customer the product they want to buy is somehow considered to be harmful.

I initially did not see the specific resource to which you were referring. I agree that it is a strange model, and even more so in the case of those "gathering interest."

DMB

My guess is they want to encourage us to buy base packages.

This has been the theory over the decades (we're in the 2nd for prepubs). Let's say it went in prepub maybe 7 years ago, and you see it in a package. You're so excited you HAVE to have THAT package. Sure there's a suspicious asterisk but WHO CARES! BUY THE PACKAGE!!

But as it turns out the account is only partially true. During major updates the Bellingham bank can handle only so much credit card volume. And the Faithlife bank account has limits on how much money can be deposited (updates are so wildly successful). The ONLY answer was to make the people who didn't throw caution to the wind, to wait some more.

And it's only fair. True, it's takes Faithlife months and often years to just get around to a prepub. Rumor suggests people actually 'need' resources. Rumors!

How's that? (Faithlife marketing really does thinks some of this stuff.)

JT (alabama24)

My guess: If too many things are released at once, too many prepubs will be cancelled by users who need to spread out purchases. Similarly, spreading out the dates allows others to jump in.

DMB

Similarly, spreading out the dates allows others to jump in.

Or jump out, recognizing the marketing silliness (me).

Sean

My guess: If too many things are released at once, too many prepubs will be cancelled by users who need to spread out purchases. Similarly, spreading out the dates allows others to jump in.

While I like DMB's answer better, this makes the most sense (of the relatively little I can see available here). Whatever the intent, the effect seems a little capricious. I get to have a Jaroslav Pelikan Christmas; Rosie does not. Since the product is ready, I think she should be able to make that decision, not a FL staffer nor an unknown customer X whose hypothetical cancellation could put everything in a tizzy.

And, this whole experience is making even more wary of the pre-pub system. Nowadays it's not guaranteed to be the best price ever, and you can't use credits or coupons towards them. Better to not commit and instead wait for a sale or possible inclusion in a future base package.

David J. Wilson

When I first became aware of this several Logos versions ago, two reasons came to mind, (neither of which have been verified by Logos):

1) We may be making an assumption that the product shipped in base packages is actually a 'finished' version, it may just be ready for a final QA check before release to those who ordered it on pre-pub but have not yet paid for it. Having already paid for the base package we may be getting a 'normally good enough' preview which may or may not need to get updated for final release (depending on whether the final QA check finds anything that needs to be fixed (some typos and incorrect hyperlinks get through into the released version anyway as many of us know, hence the report typo feature.)).

2) Not everyone has time to go through things and jump on new base packages as soon as they are released, so an intentional delay in release of prepubs now included in new base packages avoids the need for 'manual' refunds at the prepub price as it is now a lot cheaper in the base package that may get purchased just a few weeks (or days) later. (I know I have cancelled many prepubs that have been included in base packages, mainly because the base package price was significantly less than the cost of items I had on order as prepubs AND I got a number of additional lower priority volumes I might not otherwise have purchased.

I agree you have to be more careful with prepubs these days and judge for yourself how urgent it is to have that new volume or set in your library, these days for me it often depends on the discount offered on the prepub (many are offered now at significantly less than 50%, hence usually get put on the 'wait' list unless exceptionally interesting) - it all depends on how much you really 'need' that new title or collection, rather than being 'nice to have' or 'might be useful'.

Rosie Perera

While I'm one of the initial people who complained about this, I seem to recall hearing that processing people's credit cards for releases is still a manual thing, and it takes them time to get through them all. It would make sense that they would prioritize the people who bought base packages, because that gives them a quicker infusion of more cash.

However, when it's a case of simply unlocking licenses once a pre-pub ships, they don't get any more money by releasing it to those who already bought it through a base package some weeks ago. You'd think they'd actually be financially incentivized to process the credit cards of the people who ordered it as a stand-alone pre-pub. But maybe they want to honor those people who spent more overall, even though per volume they spent less for this. (Never mind the fact that I've already bought 57 base packages over the years(*) and spent nearly $200K, but no, the people who most recently bought a base package get priority.)

But I'm going to rethink my strategy of waiting until it is released to me. I could cancel my pre-pub, avoid the $64.99 that will be charged to me for that, order instead Lutheran Gold (the lowest base package that contains it) for a Dynamic Price to me of $27.74, even though it contains a bunch of other stuff I don't want or need among the 19 books in it that I don't already own.

Bottom line: I get Pelikan today, and an effective refund of $37.25. (Money I won't have to spend towards it.)

That wouldn't be so easy for people who don't already own as many books as I do, so who don't have any options for base packages that are less than the cost of the Pelikan set.

(*) Yup, 57 base packages/upgrades!

10/16/2022	Logos 10 Gold
7/13/2022	Logos 9 Lutheran Bronze Library Upgrade
6/1/2022	Verbum 9 Eastern Rite Gold Library Upgrade
1/18/2022	Logos 7 Orthodox Silver Legacy Library
1/18/2022	Verbum 7 Platinum Legacy Library
1/18/2022	Logos 6 Diamond Legacy Library
1/18/2022	Logos 6 Methodist & Wesleyan Gold Legacy Library
1/18/2022	Logos 5 Baptist Bronze Legacy Library
4/16/2021	Logos 8 Lutheran Portfolio Legacy Library
4/16/2021	Logos 8 Methodist & Wesleyan Platinum Legacy Library
4/16/2021	Verbum 8 Eastern Rite Gold Legacy Library
1/31/2021	Verbum 9 Bronze International Library Upgrade
7/9/2019	Logos 8 Baptist Bronze Library Upgrade
6/1/2019	Logos 8 Orthodox Platinum Library Upgrade
2/5/2019	Logos 8 Pentecostal & Charismatic Bronze Library Upgrade
3/21/2019	Logos 8 Methodist & Wesleyan Gold Library Upgrade
1/27/2019	Logos 8 Lutheran Diamond Library Upgrade
1/5/2019	Logos 8 Anglican Portfolio Library Upgrade
1/3/2019	Logos 8 Methodist & Wesleyan Silver Library Upgrade
12/26/2018	Logos 8 Lutheran Platinum Library Upgrade
12/3/2018	Logos 8 Platinum Library Upgrade
11/30/2018	Logos 8 Orthodox Gold Library Upgrade
11/27/2018	Verbum 8 Portfolio Library Upgrade
11/15/2018	Logos 8 Reformed Diamond Library Upgrade
11/11/2018	Logos 8 Anglican Platinum Library Upgrade
11/8/2018	Logos 8 Methodist & Wesleyan Bronze Library Upgrade
11/2/2018	Logos 8 Lutheran Gold Library Upgrade
11/2/2018	Logos 8 Anglican Gold Library Upgrade
11/2/2018	Logos 8 Reformed Gold Library Upgrade
10/29/2018	Logos 8 Silver
8/9/2018	Logos 7 Lutheran Platinum Library
5/27/2018	Verbum 7 Silver
4/18/2018	Logos 7 Methodist & Wesleyan Bronze Library
3/17/2018	Logos 7 Reformed Portfolio Library
2/21/2018	Logos 7 Reformed Platinum Library
11/10/2017	Logos 7 Portfolio Library
11/1/2017	Logos 7 Anglican Diamond Library
12/8/2016	Logos 7 Pentecostal & Charismatic Gold Library
10/12/2016	Logos 7 Lutheran Bronze
10/26/2015	Orthodox Platinum (Logos 6)
3/14/2015	Gold (Logos 6)
1/1/2015	Pentecostal & Charismatic Silver (Logos 6)
12/11/2014	Reformed Portfolio (Logos 6)
12/11/2014	Lutheran Platinum (Logos 6)
12/11/2014	Anglican Diamond (Logos 6)
6/1/2014	SDA Silver v5
4/16/2014	Anglican Diamond v5
4/22/2014	Reformed Platinum v5
4/21/2014	Lutheran Gold v5
11/9/2012	Portfolio Upgrade v5
10/6/2011	Upgrade Logos Bible Software 4: Portfolio Edition (KF) to Logos Bible Software 4: Portfolio Edition (JG)
1/5/2011	Upgrade Logos Bible Software 4: Portfolio Edition (LE) to Logos Bible Software 4: Portfolio Edition (KF)
12/30/2009	Upgrade Scholar's Library: Platinum (LE) to Scholar's Library: Portfolio (LE)
12/30/2009	Upgrade Scholar's Library: Gold (LE) to Scholar's Library: Platinum (LE)
7/17/2007	Upgrade Scholar's Library Silver Edition (OC) to Scholar's Library Gold Edition
7/17/2007	Upgrade Scholar's Library (OC) to Scholar's Library Silver Edition (OC)
7/17/2007	Upgrade Scholar's Library (RA) to Scholar's Library (OC)

DMB

I seem to recall hearing that processing people's credit cards for releases is still a manual thing, and it takes them time to get through them all

Well, that's interesting. I thought CCs were a 3rd-party pass-thru and thus secure (Bob). But maybe he was talking about storing CCs only.

Rosie Perera

I seem to recall hearing that processing people's credit cards for releases is still a manual thing, and it takes them time to get through them all

Well, that's interesting. I thought CCs were a 3rd-party pass-thru and thus secure (Bob). But maybe he was talking about storing CCs only.

All speculation perhaps, but there are some other interesting discussions of it on another thread (see my posts from here on down). But I could have sworn I'd seen some FL (then called Logos) employee years ago say that they did have to manually process something; maybe it was unlocking licenses or something. Maybe it's all automated by now. Just stabbing in the dark to try to explain why some people are still waiting. I'm not anymore!