Historical Writings that Documented the Resurrection?

Is there a Logos resource that talks about historical documents, other than the Bible, that recorded the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus? I had an argument presented to me that basically said that other than the Bible, no other valid historical recordings of the same time period exists. I'm trying to find out if this is true. Thanks.

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Rich DeRuiter

Is there a Logos resource that talks about historical documents, other than the Bible, that recorded the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus? I had an argument presented to me that basically said that other than the Bible, no other valid historical recordings of the same time period exists. I'm trying to find out if this is true. Thanks.

Josephus Antiquities 18:63-64 (available in Logos) recounts the resurrection of Jesus, as do, I suppose, some of the psuedo-gospels (though I haven't studied them).

But this sidesteps another issue: what sorts of documents would survive 2 millenia? Since the origen of Christianity is accepted by all to be that of a small number of people, mostly peasants (and illiterate), one would not expect many writings by them, nor by others about the 'wild' claims of these people. So who else would be writing 'valid' historical writings about a part of the Roman Empire far away from anything historically significant to Rome. Certainly, the crucifixion of yet another Jewish peasant was not anything historically significant to a non-Christian. Who would write about it? Who but someone convinced of the resurrection would write about it, unless and until such a movement gained some momentum. As Paul said, Jesus crucifixion was a stumbling block to the Jews and his resurrection was foolishness to Greeks. So we wouldn't expect 'valid' writings contemporary to the events in question.

Further, this argument could also be used to discredit hundreds of other historical 'facts' that are only recorded on Egyptian inscriptions, or stela, etc. If independent confirmation is required to establish the historical veracity of facts, then we're going to have to do away with a lot of the material in textbooks about ancient history.

Nor can this argument be used to discredit the historical veracity of the accounts contained in it. If only one newspaper reports an event, it does not mean that the event did not happen. It only means that the event does not have more than one account of it's happening. We have four historical gospels, plus other independent accounts of Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection in the Bible. This means multiple accounts by multiple authors of the same events, recounted in virtually the same way. Minor differences in their accounts suggests that these authors did not copy each other's notes, but recorded them as they remembered them - this is characteristic of eyewitness testimony, and uncharacteristic of a conspiracy to deceive (when facts are more likely to be recounted exactly the same, as if from one perspective).

Finally, we must admit that our faith does not rest on the standards of veracity established by skeptics, but on the assurance given us by God's Spirit. Those looking for reasons to question the Scriptures will find them. And only by God's Spirit are we able to understand and believe them. Pray for this person more than you argue/debate with him.

Just my thoughts here. I'm no apologist.

Rich DeRuiter

Is there a Logos resource that talks about historical documents, other than the Bible, that recorded the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus? I had an argument presented to me that basically said that other than the Bible, no other valid historical recordings of the same time period exists. I'm trying to find out if this is true. Thanks.

After I posted above, I remembered another way of looking for resources that may help. Any resource that has "Historical Jesus" in the title would probably give you more help than I just did. I have one such resource in my library by Gary Habermas called The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ (College Press, 1996).

Beware that these arguments are not usually persuasive for skeptics, since there is always the possibility of suggesting that these ancient documents were 'doctored' by Christians later.

Rick

Those looking for reasons to question the Scriptures will find them.

Thank you Richard. At the moment I really could not think of any valid arguments such as the ones you presented and will lock them away into my memory for the future. Concerning your above quote, that is what I told him in a round about way on another point that he made, the infamous "We can't trust the Bible because we have no way of telling if the writers were truthful". My reply was "Yes, I know, I have serious doubts whether or not Abraham Lincoln ever lived because all we have is written history".

I have found a pretty good resource on the internet that lists pagan and Jewish writings concerning Jesus and/or the resurrection.

(‾◡◝)

Materials from Modern Reformation magazine and the White Horse Inn have been requested several times as Logos resources but have not come to be as of yet. However, you might find this broadcast entitled, Corroborating Evidence, from the WHI to be of interest ...

http://feedproxy.google.com/~r/WhiteHorseInn/~3/_RrBlVXJ7VE/wi20100627.mp3

approx 32 min long

NetworkGeek

I found a few resource. Mind you, this is a difficult question to research in a large Logos library, it's one that I think Logos should think about as an example of how to pore over thousands of resources trying to find a unique relationship between common words like historical - Jesus - resurrection etc.!

Also, I will say - the Bible is clear that Jesus revealed his risen self to his disciples (Acts 13-14 for one). He did that out of God's great respect for our free choice and the role of faith and grace in our lives. It's the same reasoning that God could force us to believe if he chose to, but he wont'. So given that God's gift of faith is what permits us to believe, you can't ever expect to prove anything about Jesus Christ to someone (even though we believe it to be true).

That said - here are a couple of references that speak to your question. Hope it helps!

Flavius Josephus

Next to the Bible in importance, the works of Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, AD 37–95, are the most authoritative ancient source for illuminating the people, places, and events recorded in the Old and New Testaments. He was born in Jerusalem only four years after Jesus’ crucifixion.

In his book Jewish Antiquities, 18:63, Josephus records: “About this time lived Jesus, a wise man, if indeed one ought to call him a man. For he was the achiever of extraordinary deeds and was a teacher of those who accept the truth gladly. He won over many Jews and many of the Greeks. He was the Messiah. When he was indicted by the principal men among us and Pilate condemned him to be crucified, those who had come to love him originally did not cease to do so; for he appeared to them on the third day restored to life, as the prophets of the Deity had foretold these and countless other marvelous things about him. And the tribe of Christians, so named after him, has not disappeared to this day.”

Eighteen non-Christian sources can be traced back to the first century

Dr. G.R. Habermas has discovered that within 110 years of Christ’s crucifixion, eighteen non-Christian sources mention more than “one hundred facts, beliefs, and teachings from the life of Christ and early Christendom. These items, I might add, mention almost every major detail of Jesus’ life, including miracles, the Resurrection, and His claims to deity.”

Mark Water, Hard Questions About the Bible Made Easy, The Made Easy Series, 10-11 (Alresford, Hampshire: John Hunt Publishers Ltd, 2000).

A Jewish archaeologist

Nelson Gluek has said, “It may be stated categorically that no archaeological discovery has ever controverted a biblical reference. Scores of archaeological findings have been made which confirm in clear outline or exact detail historical statements in the Bible.”

Mark Water, Hard Questions About the Bible Made Easy, The Made Easy Series, 10 (Alresford, Hampshire: John Hunt Publishers Ltd, 2000).

For those who still think there should have been even more written about Jesus, New Testament scholar Craig Blomberg offers four reasons why that’s not a reasonable expectation: 1) the humble beginnings of Christianity; 2) the remote location of Palestine on the eastern frontiers of the Roman Empire; 3) the small percentage of the works of ancient Graeco-Roman historians that have survived (this could be due to loss, decay, destruction, or all of the above); and 4) the lack of attention paid by surviving historical documents to Jewish figures in general.36

Nevertheless, some skeptics still think there should be testimony from some of the 500 people who allegedly saw the risen Christ. Skeptic Farrell Till is one of them. During a debate on the Resurrection that I (Norm) had with him in 1994, Till demanded, “Trot out one of those 500 witnesses or give us something that they wrote, and we will accept that as reliable proof or evidence.”37

This is an unreasonable expectation, for a number of reasons. First, as we have already pointed out, first-century Palestine was an oral culture. Most people were illiterate and remembered and passed on information orally.

Second, how many of those predominately illiterate eyewitnesses would have written something even if they could write? Even today, with a much higher literacy rate and all the conveniences of modern writing and research tools, how many people do you know who have written a book or even an article on any subject? How many do you know who have written a book or article on a contemporary historical event, even a significant event like 9/11? Probably not many, and certainly fewer than one out of 500. (Has Farrell Till ever written an article on a major historical event he witnessed?)

Third, even if some of those 500 average people did write down what they saw, why would skeptics expect their testimony to survive for 2,000 years? The New Testament survives intact because of the thousands of manuscripts copied by scribes for a growing church over the centuries. Historical works from the major ancient historians such as Josephus, Tacitus, and Pliny survive on just a handful of copies, and those copies are hundreds of years from the originals. Why do the skeptics think anything is going to be written, much less survive, from an ancient group of illiterate Galilean peasants?38

Finally, we do know the names of many of the 500, and their testimony is written down in the New Testament. They include Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul, and James—plus nine who are named elsewhere as apostles (Matthew 10 and Acts 1).

So we shouldn’t expect more testimony than what we have about Jesus. And what we do have is more than enough to establish historicity.

Norman L. Geisler and Frank Turek, I Don't Have Enough Faith to Be an Atheist, 247-48 (Wheaton, Ill.: Crossway Books, 2004).

Andy

Is there a Logos resource that talks about historical documents, other than the Bible, that recorded the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus? I had an argument presented to me that basically said that other than the Bible, no other valid historical recordings of the same time period exists. I'm trying to find out if this is true. Thanks.

It is definitely worth checking out N.T. Wright's The Resurrection of the Son of God. This is a substantial and serious study and Wright spends a great deal of time examining extra-biblical and historical sources.

The downside is that it is only available in Logos as a set and it ain't cheap (though definitely worth having)...

http://www.logos.com/products/details/5223

Mark Smith

I don't have anyhting to add, but wonder if someone would like to contribute a Reading List on the resources mentioned? The title might be: Jesus: Extra-Biblical Evidence or something like that.

Edit: I forgot. How about Gary Habermas: The Historical Jesus: Ancient Evidence for the Life of Christ, available in Logos?

http://www.logos.com/ebooks/details/hstjesus

I haven't used it in awhile so can't recall the evidence he cites for the crucifixion and resurrection.

Rick

but wonder if someone would like to contribute a Reading List on the resources mentioned?

That would be really cool!

Thanks again to everyone. It will take me a few hours to go through all of the material cited (if I have it) and am sure I'll come across some awesome stuff to dig deeper with [Y]

Rick

Dominick, your post is great. Thanks.

Rick

However, you might find this broadcast entitled, Corroborating Evidence, from the WHI to be of interest ...

Thanks JRS. I will be listening to this tomorrow. I have to help with the children at VBS tonight.

Lynden O. Williams

In your basic search engine try < resurrection NEAR historical>. If you have many resources then I would recommend searching by collection, starting with your Bible dictionaries and journals, if you have them.

Todd Phillips

For those who still think there should have been even more written about Jesus, New Testament scholar Craig Blomberg offers four reasons why that’s not a reasonable expectation: 1) the humble beginnings of Christianity; 2) the remote location of Palestine on the eastern frontiers of the Roman Empire; 3) the small percentage of the works of ancient Graeco-Roman historians that have survived (this could be due to loss, decay, destruction, or all of the above); and 4) the lack of attention paid by surviving historical documents to Jewish figures in general.

The Blomberg reference above is to his book, The Historical Reliability of the Gospels, which is not available in Logos. HOWEVER, he has a chapter in his book Jesus and the Gospels (which is in Logos) called "The Historical Trustworthiness of the Gospels" and, in it, discusses both Archeology and Other Ancient Sources: logosres:jesusgosp;ref=Page.p_363;off=786

Matthew C Jones

Finally, we must admit that our faith does not rest on the standards of veracity established by skeptics,

If we are dealing with the modern "skeptics" we will find they do not accept anything attributed to Josephus as reliable. They claim it has been tainted by church historians, re-writing it in a favorable light.

There are a couple new collections in Pre-Pub that will be of importance to studies of Josephus:
Brill Josephus and History Collection (2 Vols.) http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/6833
Brill Josephus and the Bible Collection (4 Vols.) http://www.logos.com/products/prepub/details/6878

The writings of Josephus are not part of any canon that I am aware and do have apparent historical inaccuracies. I ran across one such error this week documented in the Aramaic Papyri of the Fifth Century BC (only available in the Portfolio Edition) where Josephus later errs concerning Darius II and Darius III.

So no matter how many "unbiased facts" are lined up, some people just refuse to believe.

Lynden O. Williams

For those who believe no evidence is necessary, for those who disbelieve, no evidence is sufficient.

Praiser

I don't have anyhting to add, but wonder if someone would like to contribute a Reading List on the resources mentioned? The title might be: Jesus: Extra-Biblical Evidence or something like that.

Added : http://topics.logos.com/Jesus$3a_Extra-Biblical_Evidence

Everyone feel free to add reading links.

Mark Smith

Added : http://topics.logos.com/Jesus$3a_Extra-Biblical_Evidence

Great start.

Can we add non-Logos resources cited above or are we limited to just Logos-available resources?