LDS expert help needed
Does anyone know where I can find a reasonably complete list of the quotations of the Christian Bible (original KJV canon) in the Book of Mormon? I can find short lists for individual books but I'm looking for something more comprehensive. Extra points it you know of a source tying music and/or literature to the Mormon canon.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I've got a decent amount of physical resources on the LDS, but I'm out of town for a few days, will check them when I get back. In the mean time, here are a bunch of resources to consider (I wouldn't expect anything on logos, its too obscure).
First, this topic does have it's own Wikipedia page - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_of_Mormon_and_the_King_James_Bible
Second, Sandra Tanner is probably the first person I'd recommend checking out. Ex-LDS turned Christian apologist. Retired now I think but has a large body of work you could check out - http://www.utlm.org/booklist/digitalbooks.htm
- Joseph Smith's Plagiarism of the Bible in the Book of Mormom
- Digital copy can be found in the list of digital books above.
- The Changing World of Mormonism
- Chapter 5 and 13 would be worth looking at.
- Also check out 'Mormonism - Shadow or Reality' which is the original and more detailed work that this book if based off.
- Mormon Scriptures and the Bible
- I think this is an excerpt taken from 'Mormonism - Shadow or Reality'
- Similarities between 1611 KJV Preface and Joseph Smith
- Also check out her website - http://www.utlm.org/ - then go to topic index, then 'ancient or modern' or 'plagiarism' subtopics will give you some more things to dig into.
Those from within the LDS church have responded to these claims. For example:
Edit: Going for the extra points, Stephenie Meyer (Twilight author) cites Mormonism as a strong influence in her works - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stephenie_Meyer#Style_and_influences. Branden Sanderson has also made similar statements - https://faq.brandonsanderson.com/knowledge-base/does-your-religion-shape-your-writing/ But these are more just connections between major literary authors and Mormonism, not the canon. If you want direct connections, I'd go to something like their offical Hymn book - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/music/library/hymns?lang=eng or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hymns_in_the_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints
Current MDiv student at Trinity Theological College - Perth, Western Australia
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Thank you ... this is a huge step forward for me.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
Does anyone know where I can find a reasonably complete list of the quotations of the Christian Bible (original KJV canon) in the Book of Mormon?
It seems I'm making a habit of almost having something useful for you. I do have a (literal) truckload of LDS historical books, but alas they're in storage and would be of no use to either of us right now.
However... I do have this link to this YouTube video that I think would (at the very least) be of interest to you. Synopsis: there's a bunch of literature contemporaneous to the Book of Mormon that probably served as (at the very least) inspiration to the BoM. At 13:00 there's an example of parallels between Biblical accounts and BoM. Not exactly "quotations" as you asked for, but more so examples of alleged plagiarism.
Book of Mormon Plagiarism - YouTube0 -
parallels are useful to me as much as quotations; given the nature of the Book of Mormon, I do wish they would say intertextuality rather than plagarism ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Yeah the term plagiarism is over used I think. But there isn't really an alternative that gets across the idea that Joseph Smith has sourced a large amount of his revelation from other biblical authors and passed it off as his own, which is what the Christian apologists are trying to communicate. And for that I think the term is appropriate.
The problem is that Joseph Smith's overt use of the Bible/direct quotations of it often get lumped into that category as well, when they probably shouldn't.
But...you then have situations where the Book of Mormon is quoting from scripture but its quotations follow the KJV rather than the Hebrew and you start to enter into the realm of 'passing something off as original but it seems to be sourced from the KJV' which raises questions of its validity (and hence Christians apologists focus on this). Plagiarism doesn't quite fit, but it gets across the sense of 'intentional misuse/not actually original' which they are trying to say is going on.
Current MDiv student at Trinity Theological College - Perth, Western Australia
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Mal Walker said:
Joseph Smith has sourced a large amount of his revelation from other biblical authors and passed it off as his own,
My objection is a bit deeper. Did Joseph Smith ever treat the Book of Mormon as his own ... as opposed to his translation or his transcription of visions? While I personally do not buy into his story of translation, I don't believe I can understand his works without suspending my disbelief - which includes suspending any charge of plagarism as, if God is the author, He can plagarize Himself to His heart's content - Smith is merely the recorder.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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The LDS position on this is that the current Book of Mormon is a translation into English from the original languages that the Book of Mormon was written in - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/book-of-mormon-translation?lang=eng
Now I'm not a Mormon, and my position on the subject is that the Book of Mormon which Joseph Smith produced is ultimately a product of his own imagination - so did he ever treat it as his own? I would answer yes. But your right, when talking about history we often need to suspend our disbelief for the sake of conversation. Another example is Muhammad. It's perfectly legitimate for me to say 'Now when the Prophet Muhammad has his first vision in 610AD' even though I don't believe he is a prophet or had a legitimate angelic vision.
However, to complicate matters even more, the LDS church has a very strong understanding that with Joseph Smith, God has restored the prophets who provide ongoing special (direct) revelation to his church, and that this is still going on today. Functionally, what this means is that the value of the canon is de-emphasized, and Joseph Smith didn't need to rely on shaping or reshaping the Book of Mormon. Instead, he is simply able to speak as God's prophet - https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/prophets?lang=eng
And this is where the majority of the doctrinal differences between Christians and LDS arise from, not in differences between the Bible and the Book of Mormon, though there are some, but between the Bible and the ongoing revelations given through the Prophets and held to be God's word. These include things like the eternal progression, three heavens, that God was once man like us, we can become Gods etc. Doctrine and Covenants is an example of content that is not from the Book of Mormon, but understood to be God's word given through his prophets.
Current MDiv student at Trinity Theological College - Perth, Western Australia
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