Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos
Comments
-
This is a long-awaited feature for me and I'm sure through iterations it has enormous potential to improve Logos. I can now get a summary without backing out and going to my browser to get similar information. It does not replace my AI but qualifies what I need deeper research on. This is well worth the $9.99 without the books compared to pricing on standalone programs. Thank you Logos and I look forward to seeing where this leads your development team.
0 -
Tim Hensler said:Aaron Sauer said:
This is the right play. Logos is thinking long term. Logos is embracing the future. I subscribed last night and am already seeing the vision. AI allows us to much better utilize the vast amount of resources that Logos offers.
I am 100% in support of this. And to think...this is only the beginning of what Logos can do as they embrace the latest tech. I am excited to see where this goes from here!
I've been beta testing the AI functions for a while and am still finding new advantages when I use them. They are very helpful and save time as I study and prepare lessons/sermons.
Are the AI functions in helping to find images/charts in resources?
0 -
MJ. Smith said:Frank Sauer said:
if the Logos engine goes the way of Libronix
The Logos engine is already hindering the ability to provide users' desired functionality e.g. notes on footnotes, Bible text in commentaries serving as a Bible, etc. And the technology behind data storage is constantly evolving. If Logos is to survive, at some point that basic engine will have to be rewritten. When and how is not predictable - only that it will.
Frank Sauer said:Subscription based models also would not seem to apply to the follwoing statement on the About Faithlife page, as monthly fees likely limits the accessibility for some.
We are committed to increasing biblical literacy and accessibility for every Christian around the world.
Mark has said nothing about changes to the free program option or even other low-end options. We should not assume that the subscription model applies here. It may or may not.
My point in going the way of Libronix has nothing to do with what Logos can't do going forward, it has to do with losing access to features you've purchased or losing access to the engine itself - depending on what Logos chooses to do.... Which does not line up with us having features we purchase forever as stated by Logos....
The second point you responded to is again an open ended question due to the vague information that is out there.... While you say we should not assume that the subscription model applies, as you mentioned it may apply, it may not - we have no sure statement on it....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
0 -
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
The subscription that will launch later in the year will replace Faithlife Connect and Preaching Suite. So the future state is not Faithlife Connect + Logos Pro. Faithlife Connect will be going away. The future state is just Logos Pro or one of the other subscription tiers.
Right now, we're not ready with that subscription, so we can't migrate people from Connect to Logos Pro. But later in the year, once we've built out more features and have a migration plan in place, we will be moving customers from Connect to Logos Pro or one of the other tiers. So, right now, you can choose to stay with Connect or get both Connect and Pro. (Theoretically, you could get Pro and then cancel Connect, but we don't recommend it because you'd lose your perks and some features and books.)
But Connect+Pro is a temporary situation, only during the early access period.
Mark,
Like others I have been a Logos user from before Libronix and a Logos Now/Faithlife Connect subscriber from the beginning. I have the Essentials subscription, which gives me continuing access to the full feature set and software upgrades. When I signed up for the special price of $99 per year, the price and access to the features were supposed to be locked in as long as I continued the subscription. It also came/comes with monthly perks, as well. The perks are not very important to me, but I would be very upset if what I understood to be the original contract were to be summarily broken. To be honest, the AI stuff is interesting, but not very useful to me. I have a large(ish) library of high-quality scholarly resources and add to them regularly. I rely on it and Logos' tools (features) for research and writing. I hope this can continue pretty much as promised.
0 -
Frank Sauer said:
My point in going the way of Libronix has nothing to do with what Logos can't do going forward, it has to do with losing access to features you've purchased or losing access to the engine itself - depending on what Logos chooses to do.... Which does not line up with us having features we purchase forever as stated by Logos....
I know I'm just muddying the waters (not intentional). But judging from FL's Church Management behavior, subscriptions do have the excellent benefit of cancelation ... the customer 'owns' nothing. I can see a major benefit to future flexibility for FL. All those licenses have got to be a pain.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Yes, please.Mark Barnes (Logos) said:Sean said:We're listening to you and all our customers. The more feedback we get like yours, the more likely we'll offer future purchasable feature sets.
I'm not interested in a subscription model, particularly where the bulk of my payment would go to online AI features that I'd rarely use.
I may be tempted by the option to own the new feature sets by a one-off ownership payment for an L11 upgrade in the same way that did for every version since L4.
From a financial perspective, Logos would get $0 from me for the subscription route (that I wouldn't follow), versus a possible $X from me if there is an enticing feature-set ownership route.
0 -
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:Kevin said:
Subscriptions make me feel dirty, so I will unlikely subscribe for long unless there is a similar fallback license to the Jetbrains model. (https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207240845-What-is-a-perpetual-fallback-license).
That's an interesting model. That's for the info. (I used to subscribe to Jetbrains, but I'd forgotten all about this license.)
Yes, I think this idea has merit
0 -
John Goodman said:
I have also never seen a library subscription which goes anywhere close to meeting my needs. I suspect other users with larger libraries will feel the same. Perhaps if you did a full catalogue subscription like netflix but for books?
Even Amazon hasn't been able to persuade publishers to offer a Netflix-style subscription for books. Maybe one day it will be possible...
0 -
Frank Hodges said:
Mark, One question I would have is which perks us connect users will be losing. Will we lose the 2% cash back, course access, Faithlife TV, and three free classics each month? If this is the case, I would implore Logos to please implement a plan where we can still access courses monthly. This, rather than the feature sets and added books, are a main reason for subscribing for many I would presume. Please take this into consideration.
Thanks for the feedback. We haven't landed on what perks we'll include with the subscriptions in the fall. It's useful to hear what perks have the most value to you.
0 -
Mattillo said:
Since I renewed in February, it is better for me to wait? I thought if we held out, there would be special discounts
Generally, we recommend waiting. I can't promise additional discounts if you wait, but we don't want people to be worse off by waiting.
0 -
Mark, some users have talked about the current perks of Faithlife Connect. My feedback is that the only one I care about is the rebate given yearly. I do enjoy getting that.
As far as the public domain eBooks, I have a hard time finding something I would use. I only get them now in case they bring the price of a future package down.
I like where you are going with this and signed up earlier today. The summary feature is outstanding.
Macbook Air (2024), Apple M2, 16gb Ram, Mac Sequoia, 1TB storage
0 -
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates.
Some thoughts for Mark.
Logos has done good work with dynamic pricing. I would like to see dynamic pricing built into subscriptions. If I've spent money to buy all the feature sets, a subscription for full/continuously updated features should take that into account.
Alternatively, if I pay a subscription that amounted to a full feature upgrade over the course of 2 years, I would expect to own those features at the end of those two years. I would be reluctant to pay for a subscription if I would be left with nothing when I stopped paying the subscription.
I do think there is potential for subscription-based resources. When I think of the amount of books that I own, verses how much I actually use, it is a small percentage. In a subscription-based, model, if Logos only had to pay publishers for the books we used, but we paid for the access to a larger number of books, it could be a win-win. I would also want that to be dynamically priced.
0 -
Caleb Black said:
Mark, What about those of us who have not yet bought the entire Logos 10, however, have thousands of books, and thousands of dollars invested into our library? Would we not be eligible for the discount because we have not bought the latest version, although we still have spent thousands on the program? Thanks!
The discount is mostly given because users with the L10 Full Feature Set already own most of the features and content in Logos Pro. We're still figuring out how to handle situations like yours. Depending on what level of feature set you own, it may be worth your while to upgrade to L10 in order to secure the discount. Maybe later in the year, we'll have some special offers available to make that an even better deal.
0 -
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:John Goodman said:
I have also never seen a library subscription which goes anywhere close to meeting my needs. I suspect other users with larger libraries will feel the same. Perhaps if you did a full catalogue subscription like netflix but for books?
Even Amazon hasn't been able to persuade publishers to offer a Netflix-style subscription for books. Maybe one day it will be possible...
One possible approach we've considered is something of a hybrid of Netflix and Audible.
- It would give you limited access to the whole catalog (or some subset that interests you), where we learn your interests and bubble up the most relevant content for you in Search, Factbook, Guides, etc., giving you a limited summaries and a peak inside, encouraging you to purchase a full license to the content that's most useful to you.
- It would also give you some number of monthly credits that could be spent to permanently unlock full access to books, to enable you to continue to build a curated library of content that you deem most useful.
We've tossed around a number of ideas, but we'd love to hear if something like this would strike the right balance between selection and curated full access (while working within the constraints of various licensing and royalty models).
0 -
Caleb Black said:
What about those of us who have not yet bought the entire Logos 10
That is a predicament that I am in as well. I have been a user since 2018. And with the purchase of WordSearch, I will be an indefinite user, likely. I have a mediocre library. I did not upgrade to Logos 10.
0 -
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:Don Awalt said:
Mark, I subscribed! I notice the About Box still says "Verbum Early Access". Should it say Logos Pro? Does it need a restart?
In beta, we had "Logos Early Access", because we hadn't settled on the final name of "Logos Pro". We later changed the About screen to "Logos Pro (early access)", but that change didn't quite make it into v32. You'll see the updated language in v33.
I just installed 33 beta 1, it still says Early Access not Pro. I guess it will come later in the beta versions...
0 -
What is "AL Feautre"?
Blessings in Christ.
0 -
A bit confused on one thing, on the link you sent to subscribe it says "Enjoy 30 days free, then pay $9.99 per month" but when I press the "subscribe" button it takes me to a page to charge $9.99 today.
Is there a 30 day trial?0 -
Frank Hodges said:
A bit confused on one thing, on the link you sent to subscribe it says "Enjoy 30 days free, then pay $9.99 per month" but when I press the "subscribe" button it takes me to a page to charge $9.99 today.
Is there a 30 day trial?I'll look into that for you.
0 -
Frank Hodges said:
A bit confused on one thing, on the link you sent to subscribe it says "Enjoy 30 days free, then pay $9.99 per month" but when I press the "subscribe" button it takes me to a page to charge $9.99 today.
Is there a 30 day trial?Are you sure? Mark, when I subscribed yesterday it said my first charge would be on April 6 - so it was 30 days out.
0 -
Frank Hodges said:
A bit confused on one thing, on the link you sent to subscribe it says "Enjoy 30 days free, then pay $9.99 per month" but when I press the "subscribe" button it takes me to a page to charge $9.99 today.
Is there a 30 day trial?Hmm, was this added today, or did I miss it yesterday because I used the upper 'subscribe' button? 🤔
0 -
Don Awalt said:
Are you sure? Mark, when I subscribed yesterday it said my first charge would be on April 6 - so it was 30 days out.
This is what I get when I press "Subscribe"
0 -
Don Awalt said:
Are you sure? Mark, when I subscribed yesterday it said my first charge would be on April 6 - so it was 30 days out.
Really? I subscribed yesterday as well and it charged me outright. And I totally missed that 30-days free message if it was there yesterday.
0 -
Tes said:
What is "AL Feautre"?
It is a feature that depends on third-party artificial intelligence (AI) software. Logos pays a fee based on use for the use of AI.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
I'm not opposed to subscriptions as an option. I personally subscribe to Scribd (now Everand) since my local library is a little weak on book offerings, and so far, Scribd/Everand has saved me more than $10/month (since I pay by the year) on books I'd read once then give away. It has reduced some of my "casual reading" book purchases so I can invest more money in books I want to own and consult for a lifetime. Something like this could potentially interest me (especially if it would be better than Scribd/Everand).
I am opposed to subscriptions as a replacement for owning my software and content. This past year, I've cancelled or reduced the cost of the majority of my subscriptions and services (especially app subscriptions, plus I canceled my home phone, reduced my cell phone bill, etc) and only kept the ones that are truly adding value or saving me money. I moved most of my apps to replacements I can direct-own instead of subscribe to (Microsoft Office, Ulysses, etc). My life has been simpler, more peaceful, and I love the additional savings, plus I've had extra money to donate to charity.
Dr. Nathan Parker
0 -
I'm always slow on the uptake of these things. If you choose not to subscribe does that mean you will never receive updates or new features to your Logos software? Or does that mean you will receive the updates and/or new features at a later date than subscribers yet at a predetermined price? I'm unclear on what the options are for keeping my investment up to date. Thanks!
0 -
I finally was able to get the page to load to see what I'd get with Logos Pro.
I'm still not convinced.
Right now, the only two features I'd potentially use would be Smart Search and Summaries. I don't think I'd use them enough to justify $9.99/month for them since I don't heavily use AI anyway.
The Sermon Assistant features I wouldn't use.
I looked over the 430+ book list.
I own over 95% of the books. The rest I'd probably never use.
Even the overall book list I'm not super-impressed with. Logos Libraries are a better value.
So far still not a fan of this at all.
Dr. Nathan Parker
0 -
Scot Wright said:
I'm always slow on the uptake of these things. If you choose not to subscribe does that mean you will never receive updates or new features to your Logos software? Or does that mean you will receive the updates and/or new features at a later date than subscribers yet at a predetermined price? I'm unclear on what the options are for keeping my investment up to date. Thanks!
They made it easier to download the basic free app/engine a while back, so it looks like moving forward, we'll all get free bug fixes and minor tweaks, but no major new features or updates to major features unless we subscribe. Bye bye Feature Set Upgrades, which would be super-sad.
Dr. Nathan Parker
0 -
Don Awalt said:
I just installed 33 beta 1, it still says Early Access not Pro. I guess it will come later in the beta versions...
Correct, the changes just missed the first beta, but you should see it in an upcoming v33 beta.
0 -
I just subscribed. I figured with the $15/month I'm currently paying for Connect Essentials (which renews tomorrow), I may as well just do the Galaxie Journal Subscription with the New Logos subscription. I will be cancelling Essentials now. I'm praying that I don't regret the decision as I've grown to love being able to choose from the Mobile Ed courses and the Mobile Ed subscription is a bit out of my price range.
If you're looking to get a pulse on what may benefit users with use cases similar to mine (laymen Bible Nerd) I could offer a few suggestions as to what people may be looking for. It's worth noting that I'm subscription averse. I have cancelled just about every subscription I've found myself in over the past year so the fact that I've remained on Essentials for so long speaks to how much I believe Logos is and what I believe it will keep becoming. My suggestions are as follows:
1) The 2% cash back was the main reason I subscribed to Essentials. This year I got a $30 coupon code, and I spent $180 on my subscription, but I still feel like I got a good value for my subscription.
2) Mobile Ed courses. I don't do a lot of courses, so the 2 per year have been great for me. If the courses were cheaper, I would probably buy them more often, but until the kids are off to college, or I hit the lotto, I just don't have the funds to purchase the courses I'd like to take.
3) Faithlife Ebooks Classics: honestly, I have exhausted the higher value ones at this point, but I still have a lot of fun on the first of each month choosing a few classics to download alongside the free books of the month Logos already offers
4) Feature set: since I already subscribed to Essentials, I didn't have the need to spend the extra $60 dynamic pricing on the full feature set this last go around. In the future, if the features I need the most don't end up in the new subscription model, and my other favorite perks don't show up, then I'll probably opt to purchase the features instead.
5)Lexham discount: I haven't taken advantage of this as much as I have wanted to, but the option to have the Lexham discount has been a huge determining factor in my subscription.
I would love to see many of these things remain in the new subscription model. If these few things remain in the new subscription model I'll happily remain subscribed for years to come.0 -
It's possible that some of you might be offered a trial and others not because the marketing folks are running some tests right now.
What shouldn't happen is that the /early-access page says one thing, and then the billing page says something else, as Frank was experiencing. We fixed a bug that we thought would help with this earlier today, but we'll look again.
0 -
assign a value to each user’s library and features they currently have then give them that much in credit for subscriptions so that they get to burn through all their credits before having to pay anything for subscription. That way u don’t have to offer discounts just a one time credit for what people own.
0 -
Wallace Kunin said:
assign a value to each user’s library and features they currently have then give them that much in credit for subscriptions so that they get to burn through all their credits before having to pay anything for subscription. That way u don’t have to offer discounts just a one time credit for what people own.
This is a good idea if Logos wants to force all people to go to the subscription route. Logos knows how much people have paid for Features over the course of time. So this is easy to do for them.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
0 -
Yasmin Stephen said:
I subscribed yesterday as well and it charged me outright. And I totally missed that 30-days free message if it was there yesterday.
My credit card was charged. I did not see a 30 day trial opportunity
0 -
Just to throw in my 2 cents worth. I am one of those who prefer ownership, rather than subscription. I too have been with Logos from the early days (Libronix and CD Word). I will not be doing a subscription.
0 -
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates.
Mark, thank you for this post and what is happening at Faithlife and with Logos Bible Software. I do have subscriptions for different software and I know that is where the industry is heading. I might try the Logos Pro subscription to test out the AI features you described. I know that the books and everything that I have gotten since I first purchased Logos back almost 19 years ago stays with me. I am wondering what features would leave my program if I was to subscribe to the Logos Pro and then cancel the subscription. I know that everything for the Full Feature Set for Logos 10 would remain, but would anything else from the Logos Pro remain or would it all be removed? I am just wondering what Full Feature items (upcoming) might come over that will be permanent with my account and license and what ones (other than the AI) would be removed? If all the Full Feature items from the "Logos 11" or whatever it will be called in October disappear with a subscription, then I personally would still like to get a base package with the limited full features (non-AI), to make sure I can retain them if/when I cancel a pro subscription.
0 -
Why don't you guys just offer free 3 month trial for everyone if testing the waters is your purpose?
0 -
To be honest, and Logos may hate me for this, but I am perfectly content if you all would just please spend the extra little money to allow the last engine to run perpetually, and please do not make your mobile app subscription based. Logos already does so much, I really do not see how people can even imagine to complain or think of new features? But, everybody was begging for AI without thinking of the cost to maintain that model, and as such, now Logos has to switch to subscription. t may just be me, but I would be content if Logos never adds another Feature. I use it now for mostly purchasing books and study, and to read books on the tablet.
I think one thing you should do, is offer an engine, like say your last v10, call it Logos X (I think there has already been one,) and a purchasable feature set that stops at what 10 offers. Allow these to be the last Engine, and last Full-Feature purchase available, but keep them updated so they can always be downloaded in the future for those who are content to consider it "Logos Complete."
I say this, because honestly guys and gals; Logos 10 Full-Feature is already so powerful, even without the AI stuff, that a majority of people still have not learned to use all its functions properly; and that same amount probably only know a fraction of what it can do. Let this last version be your perpetual "Stand Alone." Always offer the engine, always offer the last full-feature to be able to be purchased, and always make it able to run on the major OS's new releases in the future. People will still purchase that as much, if not more than the subscription model; as long as there is no temptation to downplay its functions to persuade to subscription.
AI is cool, but it isnt ground breaking. Logos has been over-kill for quite sometime, but in a cool way. And frankly, many people do not trust AI for their theological research anyway. Again, it seems pertinent to not try and force your customer base into a subscription model, but give them the choice; but make it known that while Logos10 (or whatever it may become to be known as) can still be purchased, and owned, and updated to work on current OS's; that it will forever remain in the state it is in. But please understand that there are many, many people who would be perfectly content with that Engine, and those Features, with the ability to purchase books like we always have. There should be no reason, since the former already exists, that it and the subscription cannot both be options.
I think most people just want the security of knowing there will be an option to download it, and have it on the computer, and run on future OS's without having another subscription to attend to. Even if you never add another feature to it again. Even 500 years from now, if the Lord tarries, I couldnt see Logos 10 not being more than useful for a Pastor or Scholar, or Layperson to study the Word. At the same time, I know there are those that keep pressing yall for more, more, more. Let them pay for the subscriptions.
Just all in all find that nuanced balance of promoting both the Desktop, and Subscription Model. Its a Win/Win.0 -
I am excited about the possibilities that these changes could bring. As someone who owns a very large library and has invested a large amount of money into this software and its features, I understand the concerns that many have (I share them as well). Logos is doing the right thing in taking things slowly, casting a vision and gaining feedback. I hope that things are throughly thought thru prior to the full launch and that the best decisions are arrived at which both serve us, the loyal customers, and allows Logos to innovate and flourish into the future.
0 -
Several years ago when Faithlife presented Logos Now they were targeting base package owners. So we have already bought and paid for base package and full feature set and still subscribed to Logos Now. It should be no different here. We should still be able to purchase a base package and full feature set and subscribe to Logos Pro if we want the new features now.
0 -
Thanks for the beta experience. It was very helpful, and I could use the summarization feature to go through a lot of material for a research paper very efficiently.
Having permanent access to the features is definitely interesting to me. However, I'm unlikely to subscribe permanently under the current model (or a similar one.)
First, I don't need to write research papers all the time. Probably two more to go, and if I subscribe to Logos Pro for a month for each of them, and then cancel again, that's gonna be sufficient.
If I put the money for, let's say, two years of Logos Pro into some base package(s), I'd receive a lot of bang for the buck, and could, for example, considerably expand on church fathers (4 or 5 denominational silver libraries.) In order to find passages of interest in the church fathers, I can still use Copilot for free, and then jump back into Logos, and continue research in there.
If AI access was available for a one-time fee, I'd certainly be more interested, but I can clearly see that that'd be a bad business decision for you.
So how to get someone like me (who is by default sceptical about anything with monthly fees) to subscribe...? Microsoft managed to do it, but they drew me in kicking and screaming, as they left me no choice (dropped support for old versions, new versions only allowed on one computer for one user.) And I'm still cringing at the thought of the annual cost of Office 365 Pro Plus... So don't do it like Microsoft.
How about including a 2 year subscription in base packages Gold and above? That would force faithful customers into a subscription, but without taking anything away from them. If they upgrade every two years, they'd retain access. If they don't want to upgrade, they can choose between switching to Logos Pro, or losing access to the AI features. On the other hand, it would remove pressure from you to develop heaps of new features every two years, since a good amount of the price for a new Logos package would flow into AI features (server capacity and ongoing development) rather than adding plenty of new features for permanent and offline use.
Now this model would require excellent communication and marketing!!!
Also keep in mind that things are gonna change rapidly, and such model is unlikely to be sustainable long term. In less than 10 years, cost of server capacity for running AI services is negligible. In less than 20 years, client computers are gonna be powerful enough to run their own offline AI enigine. In fact, high end clients can run engines like stable diffusion already.
0 -
Nathan Parker said:
I finally was able to get the page to load to see what I'd get with Logos Pro.
I'm still not convinced.
Right now, the only two features I'd potentially use would be Smart Search and Summaries. I don't think I'd use them enough to justify $9.99/month for them since I don't heavily use AI anyway.
The Sermon Assistant features I wouldn't use.
I looked over the 430+ book list.
I own over 95% of the books. The rest I'd probably never use.
Even the overall book list I'm not super-impressed with. Logos Libraries are a better value.
So far still not a fan of this at all.
No offense Nathan, but how do you intend to implement AI with the other software company you work for? There are ongoing costs that need to be addressed that really only work with a subscription. Don't get me wrong, you have every right to post as a Logos customer, but on the other software forums you are discussing AI implementation including natural language searching and summarization. If that software company is serious about implementing AI I would think they would have worked out the economics of it and without a subscription, as I understand the cost model, it doesn't work.
No one has to subscribe and nothing is set in stone about some of the conclusions you are arriving at regarding future development of Logos. I get that subscriptions are not for everyone, and hope Logos accommodates those customers, but AI at this time will require a subscription or prepayment due to ongoing costs.
0 -
Jan Krohn said:
Now this model would require excellent communication and marketing!!!
Jan, you're making people nervous. And FL is a bit too reluctant to talk about September. Smiling.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
Nathan Parker said:
Even the overall book list I'm not super-impressed with. Logos Libraries are a better value.
So far still not a fan of this at all.
Thank you, Nathan. I have most of Full Features and don't want the rest. So, I won't be testing the app for possible use. Instead, thinking best immediate strategy.
Reading the other comments as well, I'm thinking to button up my Logos before September. I've been watching my Logos purchasing, and I'm now buying mostly Amazon (Logos has thousands, but dated pretty much; ditto Accordance).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
David Jonescue said:
To be honest, and Logos may hate me for this, but I am perfectly content if you all would just please spend the extra little money to allow the last engine to run perpetually, and please do not make your mobile app subscription based. Logos already does so much, I really do not see how people can even imagine to complain or think of new features? But, everybody was begging for AI without thinking of the cost to maintain that model, and as such, now Logos has to switch to subscription. t may just be me, but I would be content if Logos never adds another Feature. I use it now for mostly purchasing books and study, and to read books on the tablet.
I think one thing you should do, is offer an engine, like say your last v10, call it Logos X (I think there has already been one,) and a purchasable feature set that stops at what 10 offers. Allow these to be the last Engine, and last Full-Feature purchase available, but keep them updated so they can always be downloaded in the future for those who are content to consider it "Logos Complete."
I say this, because honestly guys and gals; Logos 10 Full-Feature is already so powerful, even without the AI stuff, that a majority of people still have not learned to use all its functions properly; and that same amount probably only know a fraction of what it can do. Let this last version be your perpetual "Stand Alone." Always offer the engine, always offer the last full-feature to be able to be purchased, and always make it able to run on the major OS's new releases in the future. People will still purchase that as much, if not more than the subscription model; as long as there is no temptation to downplay its functions to persuade to subscription.
AI is cool, but it isnt ground breaking. Logos has been over-kill for quite sometime, but in a cool way. And frankly, many people do not trust AI for their theological research anyway. Again, it seems pertinent to not try and force your customer base into a subscription model, but give them the choice; but make it known that while Logos10 (or whatever it may become to be known as) can still be purchased, and owned, and updated to work on current OS's; that it will forever remain in the state it is in. But please understand that there are many, many people who would be perfectly content with that Engine, and those Features, with the ability to purchase books like we always have. There should be no reason, since the former already exists, that it and the subscription cannot both be options.
I think most people just want the security of knowing there will be an option to download it, and have it on the computer, and run on future OS's without having another subscription to attend to. Even if you never add another feature to it again. Even 500 years from now, if the Lord tarries, I couldnt see Logos 10 not being more than useful for a Pastor or Scholar, or Layperson to study the Word. At the same time, I know there are those that keep pressing yall for more, more, more. Let them pay for the subscriptions.
Just all in all find that nuanced balance of promoting both the Desktop, and Subscription Model. Its a Win/Win.Very wise words, Dave. I buy books + study them, highlighting the essence. I write a few notes, newly using Look Up sometimes.
I do this 7 days a week for multiple hours a day, since L3.
I am as serious as those that use a higher percentage of the app. So, L10 forever would be great. Monthly fees give me no features I need.
0 -
So I'm on Faithlife Connect, grandfathered in at the old $99/yr before the switch to Faithlife Connect. I get all the features. Clearly I can't try this because I'd lose features. But then I also lose out on early pricing even though ive been a customer for over 10yrs. Am I correct?
Next, you haven't released all the tiers and their pricing yet. Ok fine. But I'm betting my yearly price is going up to maintain my current feature set.
I get the subscription model. I use Lightroom and the quarterly updates and photoshop are worth the price I pay. So I get it.But man I keep saying this, search and retrieval is and has been your focus. Fantastic. But you gotta focus on retention too. You're making us able to instantly retrieve data without helping us to KNOW that data and its related connections. I wish you all would develop better and tactile note-taking and highlighting systems so that our minds retain data instead of just merely retrieving data. We're gonna know less and less Scripture in our own minds because Logos will just do the work for us. We need retrieval and more tools to "soak" it up the Bible and theology into our souls.
0 -
I'm trying to think of a solution that will
1. bring loads of profits to Logos
2. allow ALL customers to take advantage of AI without making a fixed $ commitment (which so many customers are opposed to)
The starting point is this...Someone said that EVERY AI query is going to cost Logos $. (This thread is too long for me to go over and give credit to the person who mentioned this.) In accounting jargon, this suggests that AI search is a variable cost. So why can't Logos pass this variable cost on to the customer?
Here is a potential solution...No need for subscription, No need for fixed $ amount to be paid by any Logos customers. Customers will be billed $X every time they run some AI feature. Logos can fix $X taking into account the following:
X = Cost paid by Logos to outside vendor to run AI search + Cost to Logos of providing this service by building AI tools + Profits to Logos
Logos can let customers know what $X is upfront.
The more the customer uses, the more they will be billed. Since there is no subscription amount to be paid each month, ALL people will want to dabble in AI. The ones who use it a little bit will only bear a low cost. People who want to extract the maximum with AI will do so too, and they bear a correspondingly higher cost.
For Logos to maximize profits, all it has to do is focus on building great AI tools so ALL people will use it extensively. The more extensively the AI tool is used, the more profits for Logos.
Human nature is to want benefits but not bear the costs. The above model ensures that the customers who reap the benefits of AI features will also bear the costs, while ensuring Logos earns boat loads of profit.
Those who are triggered by the phrase "financial economist" can go ahead and take a crack at the solution offered by this financial economist!
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
0 -
John Fidel said:Nathan Parker said:
I finally was able to get the page to load to see what I'd get with Logos Pro.
I'm still not convinced.
Right now, the only two features I'd potentially use would be Smart Search and Summaries. I don't think I'd use them enough to justify $9.99/month for them since I don't heavily use AI anyway.
The Sermon Assistant features I wouldn't use.
I looked over the 430+ book list.
I own over 95% of the books. The rest I'd probably never use.
Even the overall book list I'm not super-impressed with. Logos Libraries are a better value.
So far still not a fan of this at all.
No offense Nathan, but how do you intend to implement AI with the other software company you work for? There are ongoing costs that need to be addressed that really only work with a subscription. Don't get me wrong, you have every right to post as a Logos customer, but on the other software forums you are discussing AI implementation including natural language searching and summarization. If that software company is serious about implementing AI I would think they would have worked out the economics of it and without a subscription, as I understand the cost model, it doesn't work.
No one has to subscribe and nothing is set in stone about some of the conclusions you are arriving at regarding future development of Logos. I get that subscriptions are not for everyone, and hope Logos accommodates those customers, but AI at this time will require a subscription or prepayment due to ongoing costs.
I like Nate, but he just became a different person once he started working for Accordance; and unfortunately, has rubbed people off the wrong way with all the cancel culture he implemented in his Accordance forums. Hopefully Accordance survives, but at this point, Logos is doing way better than them. I’ll probably try the subscription to see what it adds once everything is more defined and settled.
DAL0 -
So in short all that has been spent to this point has been wasted. Our books were never really ours. Now you change your platform and we all know that the day will come the without an ongoing subscription things will simply not work or be accessible. You have pulled the mother of all bait and switches in the name of improvements. This sure looks like a full on deception!
Tell me what I have wrong here?
You were developing and about to launch this at the same time I had sales people calling to get me to spend a lot of money to “upgrade” knowing that the features would likely disappear or be useless?
Unless you all can produce some kind of ironclad guarantee regarding existing books/features and sustained support for existing platform non subscribers you have lost me as a customer, you will lose my church as a Faithlife Connect user, at least 5 other users in my church and I will be happy to warn everyone I know of your actions.
I welcome your reply0
