Official: You Can Now Get Early Access to the Next Version of Logos
Comments
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As we are called to give feedback:
I like using and testing new AI Features but at the same time I always want a fallback and I want to own my software and assets/resources. So in my view it is absolutely essential to still have Feature Sets every one or two years (or even four years if its to much work otherwise) that update all/most new features except AI / cloud dependant of course (noting that in Logos 10 you added the translation AI Feature to the Feature Set).
I see no impediment doing it that way. Currently my monthly expenses for Logos resources far exceed the $ 9.99 (or whatever) so for me it is not that much of a big deal having some resources in there that I already own. But I can see where people on a small budget are struggling here.
Basically it is a trend that most big software companies force its customers to go in the cloud and/or SaaS (think of Microsoft,Adobe,SAP,Shopware,etc..) and in most cases against the will and to the detriment of the customers. I plead to the Logos team that you would extend grace to us and still offer base software and resource packages to buy and own and for the basic parts and functions or datasets be able to use offline.
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So and do you plan on offering Logos Base Packages (e.g. Logos 11,12,...) just without features then? Or still with features? Or no new base packages? Or is this also still up to debate?
(Remember you can't do big launch events without them [;)] )
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We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates.
The last paragraph is especially important, and I appreciate your feedback on that question.
I would like the option to continue purchasing feature sets. I prefer to own my software and not rent it. I am absolutely not a fan of subscriptions. I no longer use Microsoft Word or Adobe Photoshop because they followed the subscription model and have found other programs that work for me. I understand that I will miss out on the online features, such as AI. That's fine with me. I rarely connect to the Internet when using Logos and do most of my work offline anyway.
If Logos ever goes the route of subscription only or online only, I will be forced to stop purchasing books or upgrading and use what I have.
I understand that Logos must adapt to stay in business and I wholeheartedly support that. I just hope they don't forget the needs and preferences of those who helped keep them in business for 30 years.
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Let's do weird simple Math..
$9.99 for a borrowed AI features from another source code that wasnt built by Logos & charging us $9.99, while you guys pay wholesale price to them?
And this is on top of the price of a abandoned dead service called Logos Connect that we've been paying for $100-200 per year.
So instead of fixing the broken/dead service of Logos Connect, you guys just add another service on top of the old one with the same price with LESS FEATURES?
So.. Logos Connect $150 + Logos Pro $120 = $270 per year.
Is this where this company is going?
...
As a Logos Connect subscriber, I haven't been happy with the service for awhile, what guarantee that this service won't be like Logos Now & Logos Connect again, being abandoned and dead?
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As a Logos Connect subscriber, I haven't been happy with the service for awhile, what guarantee that this service won't be like Logos Now & Logos Connect again, being abandoned and dead?
This is a good question. It seems over time a service gets abandoned although we are still paying for it. Logos Connect only might be worthwile due to discounts received when a new version comes out.
I hope Faithlife is not about to repeat the L3 to L4 catastrophe. I understand technology changes and drastic changes need to occur. But when a person has invested a lot in a company (and you know some of us have invested a lot), we get concerned.
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I plead to the Logos team that you would extend grace to us and still offer base software and resource packages to buy and own and for the basic parts and functions or datasets be able to use offline.
Thanks for the feedback, Manuel.
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So and do you plan on offering Logos Base Packages (e.g. Logos 11,12,...) just without features then? Or still with features? Or no new base packages? Or is this also still up to debate?
(Remember you can't do big launch events without them
)Do these paragraphs from my original post help?
you will still be able to buy permanent access to Logos libraries and any other books from our catalog. In the future, we may add rental options for those who want it, but we don’t foresee a time when we’ll stop selling perpetual licenses to books.
We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates.
So, a definite "yes" to future purchasable libraries and a "maybe" to future purchasable feature sets.
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and a "maybe" to future purchasable feature sets.
Not reassuring at all.
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a "maybe" to future purchasable feature sets.
Would prefer to purchase, Mark.
Thanks for answering questions / concerns, here.
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So instead of fixing the broken/dead service of Logos Connect, you guys just add another service on top of the old one with the same price with LESS FEATURES?
So.. Logos Connect $150 + Logos Pro $120 = $270 per year.
Is this where this company is going?
No, that's not where we're going.
The subscription that will launch later in the year will replace Faithlife Connect and Preaching Suite. So the future state is not Faithlife Connect + Logos Pro. Faithlife Connect will be going away. The future state is just Logos Pro or one of the other subscription tiers.
Right now, we're not ready with that subscription, so we can't migrate people from Connect to Logos Pro. But later in the year, once we've built out more features and have a migration plan in place, we will be moving customers from Connect to Logos Pro or one of the other tiers. So, right now, you can choose to stay with Connect or get both Connect and Pro. (Theoretically, you could get Pro and then cancel Connect, but we don't recommend it because you'd lose your perks and some features and books.)
But Connect+Pro is a temporary situation, only during the early access period.
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As a Logos Connect subscriber, I haven't been happy with the service for awhile, what guarantee that this service won't be like Logos Now & Logos Connect again, being abandoned and dead?
This is a good question. It seems over time a service gets abandoned although we are still paying for it. Logos Connect only might be worthwile due to discounts received when a new version comes out.
Connect hasn't been abandoned. We've continued to update Connect every two years with all the latest features. When Logos 10 came out, all Connect subscribers received all Logos 10 features, and the subscription price did not go up. The same was true when Logos 9 was released. All the perks, etc., from Connect—the courses, the annual cashback, and so on—are also still being delivered.
But this announcement is saying that Connect will be rolled into this new subscription before the end of the year. So Connect's days are numbered, but until it's subsumed into the new subscription, it remains fully supported, albeit closed to new customers.
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and a "maybe" to future purchasable feature sets.
Not reassuring at all.
We're listening to you and all our customers. The more feedback we get like yours, the more likely we'll offer future purchasable feature sets.
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I own Logos 10 Full Features and base packages. Would it be better for me yo cancel FL Connect No Library and just go ahead and subscribe to Logos Pro? Other than the free 3 ebooks, 25% off a Lexham Press purchase and 2% cash back, what else would I lose or gain?
I’m asking because I will have to make a decision whether to cancel or renew in May 2024.
Thanks!
DAL
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and a "maybe" to future purchasable feature sets.
Not reassuring at all.
We're listening to you and all our customers. The more feedback we get like yours, the more likely we'll offer future purchasable feature sets.
Yes, please offer the option to purchase. Maybe have features for sale like you do now and just subscription for AI and other Cloud related features.
DAL0 -
I own Logos 10 Full Features and base packages. Would it be better for me yo cancel FL Connect No Library and just go ahead and subscribe to Logos Pro? Other than the free 3 ebooks, 25% off a Lexham Press purchase and 2% cash back, what else would I lose or gain?
In this specific case, I think you're OK with canceling and getting Pro if that's what you'd like to do. You will lose all the perks you mentioned, plus any more perks that you didn't mention. Are Mobile Ed courses part of Connect No Library? I think they may be. If so, you'd lose those, too.
For others with similar questions, I'm only giving this answer because DAL says
- they already own the Logos 10 Full Feature Set, so they won't lose any features
- they have the "No Library" version of Connect, so they won't lose any books
- they understand they'll lose the perks, and they're OK with that
In all other circumstances, we recommend sticking with Connect until we announce a migration plan.
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Yes, please offer the option to purchase. Maybe have features for sale like you do now and just subscription for AI and other Cloud related features.
This. To be clear, I have no problems with a separate AI subscription if that is what you need for it. What I want is for the software to continue to develop and to have option to purchase permanent licenses to feature upgrades like we have now.
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Excuse me if this question has already been asked and answered. I'm at work and could only skim the posts.
Early Access seems only available for the desktop app. If this is so, are there plans to offer these features for mobile in the near future?
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.1 1TB SSD
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We're listening to you and all our customers. The more feedback we get like yours, the more likely we'll offer future purchasable feature sets.
Well, obviously, some will want to purchase feature sets. That's easy.
But wanting me to spend $200+ to try out a subscription, don't think so. And come fall (I assume), I can't imagine how your corprate financials could obviate a more relaxed test-it regime.
And that's ok.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Early Access seems only available for the desktop app. If this is so, are there plans to offer these features for mobile in the near future?
It's pages back ... mobile is coming, with web ... all platforms.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Thanks DeniseEarly Access seems only available for the desktop app. If this is so, are there plans to offer these features for mobile in the near future?
It's pages back ... mobile is coming, with web ... all platforms.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.1 1TB SSD
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Since you are asking for feedback, I will say that I am concerned about the cost. I understand the need for continuing income so that you can keep the company strong, but it seems that Logos has become a runaway freight train when it comes to pricing. I speak for many small town, small church pastors who simply cannot afford to pay 300 to 500 dollars for each new version. If the 9.99 Logos Pro monthly subscription is a reduced cost, with the higher costs coming later, you have automatically put it out of the reach of many people who need it the most. I don't have the full feature set for Logos 10, so I will have to wait and see what the increased pricing is. I simply feel that Logos is focusing on a small segment of higher income individuals.
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Subscriptions make me feel dirty, so I will unlikely subscribe for long unless there is a similar fallback license to the Jetbrains model. (https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207240845-What-is-a-perpetual-fallback-license).
I would probably be happy with $20 a month for such a license, although I appreciate a considerable portion of the subscription fee would be towards the LLM APIs, so one would not be able to fallback with those features, but definitely new regular features and fixes that do not use them I would like to be able to 'purchase' in some capacity.
I am mostly happy with Logos as it is, but would definitely like to see improvements such as link-tab leader/follower that we now have in mobile. I would be quite upset if this is introduced in desktop but the only way I can access it is to pay forever a monthly fee that incorporates a load of other features I would little use.
I would also hope bugs in current features are fixed whether or not you subscribe.
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From the book list included in Logos Pro, I determined that I have most of it. So in reality, what I'd be paying is features use mostly. Shouldn't that be factored in also in the Logos Pro subscription fee, like how dynamic pricing works for perpetual licenses on base packages? I mean, why should both users pay the same amount of subscription fee when another has zero of the books while another have most, if not all, of them?
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err ah ---
What's a good response when someone starts with "err ah---"? No response!
You should use AI to figure out the words that trigger you. Don't need to waste your money on a shrink. I can get you started: How about "financial economist"? You must have had someone in your immediate circle who was a financial economist and a scumbag for you to have a visceral reaction. One of the fruit of the Spirit is self-control.
BTW socialism refers to the ownership of the means of production
You can take your definition and stick it where you know it belongs...ok, have you taken your head out of the gutter....ok, now stick your definition back into the textbooks from where you pulled out the definition. Ask the man on the street and he will tell you what socialism means to him practically. You don't need some definition from a textbook.
All politicians are voted in to take take resources from the "other" group and give it "their own" group. Politics simply enables legalized stealing. We don't need corporations to join this train.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God
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Subscriptions make me feel dirty, so I will unlikely subscribe for long unless there is a similar fallback license to the Jetbrains model. (https://sales.jetbrains.com/hc/en-gb/articles/207240845-What-is-a-perpetual-fallback-license).
That's an interesting model. That's for the info. (I used to subscribe to Jetbrains, but I'd forgotten all about this license.)
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Early Access seems only available for the desktop app. If this is so, are there plans to offer these features for mobile in the near future?
I gave this answer earlier:
All these features are cross-platform (desktop, web, and mobile) with the following exceptions:
- Smart Search and Search Results summaries are coming to mobile in v33.
- Sermon Assistant is not available on phones or Android. It is available on the iPad app.
- Instant dark mode is already available on mobile, but won't be available on the web app.
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From the book list included in Logos Pro, I determined that I have most of it. So in reality, what I'd be paying is features use mostly. Shouldn't that be factored in also in the Logos Pro subscription fee, like how dynamic pricing works for perpetual licenses on base packages? I mean, why should both users pay the same amount of subscription fee when another has zero of the books while another have most, if not all, of them?
This special discounted pricing is only available for people with the L10 Full Feature set. We assume that those customers will also own most of the books, so we took that into consideration when we calculated the discounted price. There will be very few, if any, customers receiving the discounted price who don't already own most of the books.
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I was just telling my students this week, in a pitch for using Logos, that the best part about it was that it hasn't gone the way of a subscription service [:O]. I've apparently put my foot in my mouth and will have to retract that recommendation next week.
We’re still thinking through what that means for purchasable feature sets, and we’d value your feedback on whether the option to purchase would be important to you, knowing that you’d miss out on all the AI and cloud-backed features along with regular updates.
My vote is to continue to offer purchasable feature sets. I'm very unlikely to sigh up for an ongoing subscription service. There is really only one feature I could see being worth it for me to do so, and that would be if the personal book builder is revived with AI capabilities and mobile app access for personal books.
Mark - any idea when a decision will be made on whether or not Logos will continue to offer purchasable feature sets? Now that I know it's a possibility that non-subscription purchasable feature sets will not be offered in the future, I'm going to pause my resource purchases with Logos for the time being, as there is no sense in continuing to invest in a product that would stay stagnant. If the answer turns out to be "no - we're going subscription only for new features," then I will be migrating over to Accordance. Hopefully they can offer some type of cross-grade deal to those of us that a subscription plan isn't right for. Take note, Nathan Parker. [:D]
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Just signed up to check it out. It’s better to check out before you freak out.
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Logos power user since 2008. LogosNow/Faithlife Connect subscriber. New to this news & discussion just this morning. After perusing this forum thread for ten minutes, I want to make sure I have a basic understanding of what Logos will look like going forward....
1. No longer will there be a new version of Logos every two years or so to purchase or upgrade to.
2. The Logos engine will be a constantly improving/upgrading product - funded through subscriptions.
3. There won't be an option to purchase the new Logos engine & features. Subscription is the future.
4. No one will lose access to the books and features they have already purchased.
5. Future purchases of books will continue, as well as coming subscription models that include many books.
Am I on the right track here? Just trying to evaluate everything. Not saying that I am opposed to the is model.
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