Official Survey: How do you feel about Logos Pro and the move to subscription?
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Not sure. Not looking for freebies. Just don't want to be forced into a subscription when I already have too many of those...
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Hi Donovan
I have no intention of dropping Logos right now. However, I may scale back on large purchases. Why would I keep investing if my investment will dwindle to nothing. And the software will keep working for at least a few years so the situation is not immediate. But I considered the idea of giving my Logos to my offspring when I die. How do I bequeath a subscription?
And if there is no viable alternative then its even worse. A gun is being held to my head!
But who knows. Perhaps when the D-day arrives there is something acceptable and I will just say yay and pull out my credit card. But the way things look now, I am not optimistic. But hopefully I am completely wrong or the plans change in some way. Hope springs eternal!
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I as well will not be dropping Logos and running away. But it is a wait and see situation for me which is why I canceled my pre-pub purchase. At the end of the day, Logos is a company not a charity. Running at a loss is not acceptable and neither is running net zero profit. The last big "shake-up" they did caused concern as well, at least for me. That concern centered mostly of not being able to use most of the software without being online. Some of that did happen (Atlas) but the pain has not been all that severe to me.
I imagine they have derived market data as to who their largest customer type is whether that is institutions, professionals (ministers, teachers, preachers, etc) or lay people. I would imagine the lay people (like me) are the smallest user base in number and dollars spent. I know many people using bible software on their computer/tablets in Sunday School and during the church service and they are all using either free versions or free versions with in app purchases just to buy the bible edition they want. For me, that model would work for 60-70% of the time but I do enjoy diving deeper, utilizing the many commentary sets, etc I have amassed over a lot of years. When I do that, I find Logos a joy to use. It is great software, great company with great people and I do want them to be successful. So hopefully no one misunderstands my concerns and/or complaints.
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Paul Gibson said:
(11) There was a post a couple of weeks ago about Logos for your church:
https://community.logos.com/forums/t/221688.aspx
I like the idea in theory, but I strongly suspect that few church members would be interested. My wife does a lot of Bible studies, but she mostly does curriculums for the groups she attends. I've suggested several times she looks at Logos, but there hasn't been much interest. I've talked to guys in my men's study, but they haven't seemed interested. The people who are willing to use an electronic tool (which I think is a small percentage of my church's attendees) are satisfied with free programs like YouVersion; they simply don't need (or want to learn) a program like Logos. I think one of the big advantages to YouVersion is that 3rd-parties can add content like devotionals (I presume there some kind of review before content is made public).
What might be useful is a Logos Lite which incorporates basic Bible studies (and allows most Logos resources), but limits features to basics like highlighting and notes...
My experience has been very similar.
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Simple constructive summary for you. Many want to point at Microsoft as the example that we all "must" move toward a subscription model. However, Microsoft offers a subscription model for Office 365, but standalone versions of Office are still able to be purchased. Their feature sets are locked at that version and that is fine. They are considering the desires of all their customers.
You CAN offer a subscription model AND a one-time full feature set upgrades and still make money.
Do the math. $9.99 a month over 2 years is $240. Buying a new version feature set upgrade could be offered for $400 or $500 depending. And then two years later an other full feature upgrade could be purchased for $400 or $500.
So you still make money. Potentially more with the standard purchase model.
It's not semantics. I want my feature set to move forward without having to rent it.
Thank you for listening.
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I believe others have mentioned something along this alternative, but I'll mention it again--a subscription plan that leaves you owning features after so many months of subscription to them. I.e. Rent-to-Own.Steven MacDonald said:Simple constructive summary for you. Many want to point at Microsoft as the example that we all "must" move toward a subscription model. However, Microsoft offers a subscription model for Office 365, but standalone versions of Office are still able to be purchased. Their feature sets are locked at that version and that is fine. They are considering the desires of all their customers.
You CAN offer a subscription model AND a one-time full feature set upgrades and still make money.
Do the math. $9.99 a month over 2 years is $240. Buying a new version feature set upgrade could be offered for $400 or $500 depending. And then two years later an other full feature upgrade could be purchased for $400 or $500.
So you still make money. Potentially more with the standard purchase model.
It's not semantics. I want my feature set to move forward without having to rent it.
Thank you for listening.
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Today, I enrolled in Logos Pro after watching Joshua Rowe's presentation on MP Seminars. While I appreciate AI use, I'm concerned about the $9.99/month pricing for an "early access" program, similar to Faithlife Connect's $8.99/month. This seems excessive, especially for existing subscribers. Streamlined pricing for both subscriptions would be appreciated, as I'm already investing significantly in resources upfront. I'll reconsider my subscriptions accordingly.
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In contemplating Logos' recent changes and pricing, it's crucial to acknowledge their status as a business. While concerns about profitability and user experience are valid, it's essential to maintain perspective. Each user's needs and expectations vary, influenced by their usage patterns and investment in resources. While some may find the changes challenging, others appreciate the software's depth and utility. Ultimately, a balanced understanding of Logos' position and market dynamics informs individual decisions about subscription renewal and continued support.
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Steven MacDonald said:
You CAN offer a subscription model AND a one-time full feature set upgrades and still make money.
Maybe. But I doubt it (and also won't subscribe). First, M/S is a completely different equation. Logos features are nice to have; not core. And earlier FL subscription content has either failed on customer appeal, or profitability.
My guess: some version of forced FL subscription is unavoidable.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Steven MacDonald said:
You CAN offer a subscription model AND a one-time full feature set upgrades and still make money.
Do the math. $9.99 a month over 2 years is $240. Buying a new version feature set upgrade could be offered for $400 or $500 depending. And then two years later an other full feature upgrade could be purchased for $400 or $500.
I'm always bemused by how some of you seem to know enough about Logos's internal financial workings to make such assertions. Keep it coming, because Logos's financial team must be too [insert appropriate word here] to do the math themselves. At least you didn't preface your comment with "if it were my company ...".
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Thanks for your perspective. However, regardless of their financial health, which no one outside knows, having both the subscription and full feature set options results in greater revenue. Otherwise, those who have no desire to subscribe will not. That is basic math.0
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Steven MacDonald said:
That is basic math.
Not really. They're banking on subscriptions being considerably more affordable, to a much larger customer base. Lose some, gain more.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Steven MacDonald said:
Simple constructive summary for you. Many want to point at Microsoft as the example that we all "must" move toward a subscription model. However, Microsoft offers a subscription model for Office 365, but standalone versions of Office are still able to be purchased. Their feature sets are locked at that version and that is fine. They are considering the desires of all their customers.
You CAN offer a subscription model AND a one-time full feature set upgrades and still make money.
Do the math. $9.99 a month over 2 years is $240. Buying a new version feature set upgrade could be offered for $400 or $500 depending. And then two years later an other full feature upgrade could be purchased for $400 or $500.
So you still make money. Potentially more with the standard purchase model.
It's not semantics. I want my feature set to move forward without having to rent it.
Thank you for listening.
For those of us with large libraries, the version upgrades were much less than that. I upgraded to Logos 9 for $150 and to 10 for about the same price. Even for those without large libraries, there are significant discounts for students, faculty, etc and pretty frequent 20%~30% off upgrade sales from both Logos as well as many Logos influencers, so for the average person you could probably upgrade every two years for about the same price as spending $9.99/month on a membership for two years. The big difference, of course, is that under one model you own the product at the end, and under the other model you own nothing at the end of the two years and need to keep subscribing indefinitely, thereby driving up the cost of ownership.
Really, the people that are likely to benefit financially from a subscription model are the ones who are not yet Logos customers and can get into using the program for a lower up front cost, although if they stay with the program for the long term, they too will pay more over time than they would for a perpetual license model. Logos has been very transparent that they need to make more $ off of customers for the base packages than they do under the current model to be able to run the business, so at least they are honest about the fact that they are going to raise our costs with the new model. But it’s our choice whether or not we want to remain customers as a result.
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I'm currently subscribed to "Faithlife Connect Essentials - No library (formerly Logos Now) - Annual".
- What are the implications if I decide to try out this Logos Pro?
- If I subscribe to Logos Pro, will I then have TWO subscriptions to pay for? Or does it automatically cancel my Faithlife Connect Essentials subscription? (and if so, can I switch back?)
If this has already been covered in a forum post, please point me to it. I wasn't able to get much info from the official site except that "If you switch from your existing subscription to Logos Pro, you’d lose some perks, features, and books. Later in the year, we’ll have information about how you can switch while keeping your content and features."
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Hi Joshua
Joshua Tan said:I'm currently subscribed to "Faithlife Connect Essentials - No library (formerly Logos Now) - Annual".
- What are the implications if I decide to try out this Logos Pro?
- If I subscribe to Logos Pro, will I then have TWO subscriptions to pay for? Or does it automatically cancel my Faithlife Connect Essentials subscription? (and if so, can I switch back?)
In https://community.logos.com/forums/t/221543.aspx Mark says:
Where does this leave subscriptions like Faithlife Connect and Preaching Suite?
The subscription that will launch later in the year will replace Faithlife Connect and Preaching Suite. The tier we're launching today, Logos Pro, includes exclusive new features, but there are a few tools and datasets in Connect and Preaching Suite that aren’t in Logos Pro but will be in another tier of the subscription. Most of the books in Logos Pro are different from those included in the existing subscriptions.
If you subscribe to those products, we’ll contact you later in the year to explain how you can painlessly switch to the new subscription. Until then, we recommend keeping your existing subscription to ensure you don’t lose any perks, features, or books. In the meantime, you could add Logos Pro to your existing subscription if you’re eligible.
Hope this helps, Graham
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My concern is this, I am already paying $100.00 a year for Logos Connect, the post says, I can pay an additional $9.99 a month to test drive Logos Pro now (without all the features as of yet.) and will be offered a deal in the coming months to stay on Logos Pro. So I would now be paying essentially $220.00 a year for what I have now plus Logos Pro (partial, we'll call it.) If I am then to be offered a deal, what is that going to look like. I can not afford even the $220.00 a year and it sounds like it's going to be even more than that.
So I guess we will have to wait and see. I sure hope come Autum we are given some time to see the prices and make a decision on what is best for us rather than them just roll out the prices and we have to make a decision quickly.
Please give us some time knowing what the costs are going to be.
But from what I am gathering, it is going to be too rich for my blood, which puts me in a bad place, because I don't own many features that aren't rented through Logos Connect.
Edit: I just went and purchased the Preaching Suite Feature Upgrade just in case I have to cancel all subscriptions, I will at least have something for some time to come anyway. But again, I do hope these subscriptions are affordable as I do like to have new features and I do want to see Logos succeed as a company.
Here's hoping...
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Joey Midgett said:
My concern is this, I am already paying $100.00 a year for Logos Connect, the post says, I can pay an additional $9.99 a month to test drive Logos Pro now (without all the features as of yet.) and will be offered a deal in the coming months to stay on Logos Pro. So I would now be paying essentially $220.00 a year for what I have now plus Logos Pro (partial, we'll call it.) If I am then to be offered a deal, what is that going to look like. I can not afford even the $220.00 a year and it sounds like it's going to be even more than that.
So I guess we will have to wait and see. I sure hope come Autum we are given some time to see the prices and make a decision on what is best for us rather than them just roll out the prices and we have to make a decision quickly.
Please give us some time knowing what the costs are going to be.
This is all answered by (Mt 24:36)[:)] and the quote from Mark Barnes: "If you subscribe to those products, we’ll contact you later in the year to explain how you can painlessly switch to the new subscription. Until then, we recommend keeping your existing subscription to ensure you don’t lose any perks, features, or books."
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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[Y]
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Graham Criddle said:
Hi Joshua
Joshua Tan said:I'm currently subscribed to "Faithlife Connect Essentials - No library (formerly Logos Now) - Annual".
- What are the implications if I decide to try out this Logos Pro?
- If I subscribe to Logos Pro, will I then have TWO subscriptions to pay for? Or does it automatically cancel my Faithlife Connect Essentials subscription? (and if so, can I switch back?)
In https://community.logos.com/forums/t/221543.aspx Mark says:
Where does this leave subscriptions like Faithlife Connect and Preaching Suite?
The subscription that will launch later in the year will replace Faithlife Connect and Preaching Suite. The tier we're launching today, Logos Pro, includes exclusive new features, but there are a few tools and datasets in Connect and Preaching Suite that aren’t in Logos Pro but will be in another tier of the subscription. Most of the books in Logos Pro are different from those included in the existing subscriptions.
If you subscribe to those products, we’ll contact you later in the year to explain how you can painlessly switch to the new subscription. Until then, we recommend keeping your existing subscription to ensure you don’t lose any perks, features, or books. In the meantime, you could add Logos Pro to your existing subscription if you’re eligible.
Hope this helps, Graham
Thanks for sharing the link, Graham! That was what I was looking for. Had a couple of other questions answered while reading the posts in the thread you linked.
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Dear Staff,
I am not in favor of subscriptions. If I use one, as soon as I quit, all the work I've done in the past is gone if it was using the subscribed features. I like to own not rent. If new features come out, I would like it if I could buy it and incorporate it on an individual basis. An option to subscribe for a month or two or three could be helpful to see if I would really like to buy it, but if I liked it, I like to buy, rather than keep subscribing. I would be in favor of making decisions on each feature, rather than have to purchase a bundle which would include many features I would not need just to get one or two I did.
I appreciate Logos. That's my two cents.
Mike
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If it jumps to "subscription only," I'm opposed. There needs to be an option for those of us who want to own our software. Like others have already said, I have all the subscriptions I can afford already.
I imagine that, should this become the only option, I'll probably have to rely on whatever free update engines get provided.
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
I understand that I will not lose all the current features which I own if I do not subscribe. My basic concern is moving forward with subscription based new features. Say I subscribe for several years, receiving a number of new features over that time. As I understand it I will lose those features when I stop subscribing. Will there be a way for people to then purchase those features?
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Leigh Johnson said:
I understand that I will not lose all the current features which I own if I do not subscribe. My basic concern is moving forward with subscription based new features. Say I subscribe for several years, receiving a number of new features over that time. As I understand it I will lose those features when I stop subscribing. Will there be a way for people to then purchase those features?
As far as I can tell, this question has not yet been answered by FL. They are either not sure what they plan to do or keeping us in the dark on the answer. It seems to be the number one question in the minds of many.
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I have no problem with subscriptions as a lower cost option for entry or for some specific features like Ai. It might be a great way to get started if you don't already have a large investment in a library.
I am deeply concerned about the thousands of dollars I have put into Logos resources and books trusting they would be around for decades providing at least OS updates. Though I love Logos functions, perhaps it would have been better to have invested more in physical books which don't need the internet, can be easily loaned to others, last almost forever, and can't be made useless.
It would be my hope that there will still be a Logos 11 available for purchase alongside of any subscription alternatives. I am currently trialing the new subscription and find the benefits very underwhelming; that may change or it may already appeal to others.
I am not sure if they could have handled this differently, but like some others have stated, I will not be making many, if any additional purchases until there is clarity in the direction of Logos. I think creating this uncertainty until late in the year is counterproductive.
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Joshua Tan said:
I'm currently subscribed to "Faithlife Connect Essentials - No library (formerly Logos Now) - Annual".
- What are the implications if I decide to try out this Logos Pro?
- If I subscribe to Logos Pro, will I then have TWO subscriptions to pay for? Or does it automatically cancel my Faithlife Connect Essentials subscription? (and if so, can I switch back?)
If this has already been covered in a forum post, please point me to it. I wasn't able to get much info from the official site except that "If you switch from your existing subscription to Logos Pro, you’d lose some perks, features, and books. Later in the year, we’ll have information about how you can switch while keeping your content and features."
These are the relevant questions IMO, and I don't see them answered anywhere (easily located). I guess I'll have to search the "mega-thread" (gee, only 1252 items/posts to look through!) and see if the answer is in there somewhere as I'd like to give Logos Pro a whirl if the answers are good. This quote from the first page of mega-thread is great, but how do we go about it?: "...you could add Logos Pro to your existing subscription if you’re eligible."
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Dave Hooton said:Joey Midgett said:
My concern is this, I am already paying $100.00 a year for Logos Connect, the post says, I can pay an additional $9.99 a month to test drive Logos Pro now (without all the features as of yet.) and will be offered a deal in the coming months to stay on Logos Pro. So I would now be paying essentially $220.00 a year for what I have now plus Logos Pro (partial, we'll call it.) If I am then to be offered a deal, what is that going to look like. I can not afford even the $220.00 a year and it sounds like it's going to be even more than that.
So I guess we will have to wait and see. I sure hope come Autum we are given some time to see the prices and make a decision on what is best for us rather than them just roll out the prices and we have to make a decision quickly.
This is all answered by (Mt 24:36)
and the quote from Mark Barnes: "If you subscribe to those products, we’ll contact you later in the year to explain how you can painlessly switch to the new subscription. Until then, we recommend keeping your existing subscription to ensure you don’t lose any perks, features, or books."I decided I'm not participating in the wait and see game. I bought the full data set for Logos 10. Other than the Faithlife TV and Mobile Ed, I see no benefit to keeping Faithlife Connect at $15/month. I'm not one to believe Logos is going to offer me anything I can't do without as a perk of wait and see. If a new maintenance subscription is required to keep Logos going, so be it. Otherwise I will use what I have. I think a paradigm shift is coming, but we do not know fully what it will be.
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I feel absolutely horrible about it. Logos should not be subscription only. I am fed up with subscriptions. I've cancelled almost all of mine. They are prohibitively expensive taken together. The subscription model is in and of itself, abusive in character. I'm giving you my feedback which is ENTIRELY negative.
John 3:17 (ESV)
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.0 -
At this point they have promised a perpetual license upgrade on the next version for those who want it. They could still continue to offer both perpetual and a subscription option for those who want it. Microsoft is continuing to do so. BUT, the majority of the Logos customers who are permanent license and not subscription customers, really need to speak up and make their voices heard. They can also decide to not subscribe as well when the time comes. The company can say what it wants, but at the end of the day, if not enough people buy the subscription, they will offer an alternative. I will continue to buy the permanent option as I plan on passing mine on after my death. I may or may not also subscribe to the subscription along with it but that remains to be seen. And yes, the smart option, in my opinion, is to buy the full feature set. It would provide a good stopping point if need be. Just my two cents :-)
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Steven MacDonald said:
At this point they have promised a perpetual license upgrade on the next version for those who want it.
The question remains regarding this - what Logos considers offering a perpetual license of some form.... They have not clarified the very vague statement that was made in response to the initial pushback to Subscription Only.... From some conversations I've had, it has been hinted towards more of a Rent to Own option being their view of offering Perpetual Licenses in the future....
In my conversations to that offering, I clarified my stance that a Subscription is a Subscription..... If I have to Subscribe to "earn" credit towards a Perpetual License, then I have no interest.... I want to buy my upgrade and be done with it....
So hopefully they have heard us and respond to the feedback by keeping the traditional purchase option (Without making the cost astronomical in an attempt to encourage Subscription)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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I'm late to the party as usual. But here's my 2 cents....
I signed up for Logos Pro (easy access) when I found out about it. I have enjoyed it, I find it better than Logos before and I use it. I am better pleased with the Search now... I like the Assist addition.
I don't like a subscription... but if that what it takes and I get what I get with the current subscription rates... I'm ok with that. anyone can belly ache till the cows come home... and I often wonder if many are just doing that. I need a bible program to help or assist me in my studies and teaching preparation... As for me, Logos Pro does that. And to that I say "Thanks!" uh was that 2 cents or 3 cents worth.... [8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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xnman said:
anyone can belly ache till the cows come home... and I often wonder if many are just doing that.
What is the need to make negative comments about users that express their "2 Cents" and more importantly the feedback that Logos requested.... Why does it have to be represented in a negative light?
Users stating their views against Subscription is NOT belly aching till the cows come home.....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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I think I like having a permanent perpetual license over subscription. I’ve used both (Adobe) and other softwares. After suffering a major house fire in January and losing a number of physical books, I decided to buy them in Logos so I would always have them. Now, I reading about the subscription and really don’t believe it fits my milItaly lifestyle unless someone can explain how it would work. I think Logos should be available as it always has and with subscription. I’ve always purchased my software, features, and resources around deployments and school. By the way, my family could use a lot prayer right now. The house fire, during another deployment, was devastating. The mortgage company has dragged me through the mud. I fighting every day with them. They’ve forced me to get loans, use insurance contents to pay contractor, get legal help, call politicians, beg military and vet VSOs and orgs for help, and ask churches for help. We lost the house, most contents, two cars, and 80% of our pets. I have no idea how we finish rebuilding or recovering contents since the mortgage company has refused to release insurance funds in a timely manner and forced us to use up our contents money to pay contractor.
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I agree that someone who express concerns about subscriptions is not belly-aching.Frank Sauer said:xnman said:anyone can belly ache till the cows come home... and I often wonder if many are just doing that.
What is the need to make negative comments about users that express their "2 Cents" and more importantly the feedback that Logos requested.... Why does it have to be represented in a negative light?
Users stating their views against Subscription is NOT belly aching till the cows come home.....
But when someone has made over a hundred posts on the same subject, including speculating on what might or might not happen with current resources and licenses, that probably does constitute belly-aching.
Surely by now Faithlife/Logos has got the message that there are some who want to ensure they do not lose what they have already paid for, so let's trust that they are smart enough and will ensure they do not lose thousands of their faithful customers.
In other words, let's wait until the final announcements - please!
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Roger Pitot said:
Surely by now Faithlife/Logos has got the message that there are some who want to ensure they do not lose what they have already paid for, so let's trust that they are smart enough and will ensure they do not lose thousands of their faithful customers.
'Surely' would seem logical. But unlikely. When companies want to go down a road, the key is to marginalize and rationalize. Even Bob brought up customer churn, in his days. Mark's comments are another good example (no offence to him), mentioning the customer decision base is well beyond the forum. Notice the intros 'customers have asked us ... yada, yada' and folks wonder ... really?
Oddly enough, when FL delivers the subscriptions, folks will yap a little and move on, for their own needs. And the PE will be watching, for the next subscription stage.
I like Frank periodically popping the thread up ... more people see it, and comment as needed.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Frank Sauer said:
Users stating their views against Subscription is NOT belly aching
I agree with Frank and appreciate his efforts.
L asked for feedback. We provide it as we see fit.
The fall is 3-4 months away. We still have opinions to share, as L still has the facts and the future to share with us.
Letting L know our concerns haven't melted away is important.
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Roger Pitot said:
I agree that someone who express concerns about subscriptions is not belly-aching.Frank Sauer said:xnman said:anyone can belly ache till the cows come home... and I often wonder if many are just doing that.
What is the need to make negative comments about users that express their "2 Cents" and more importantly the feedback that Logos requested.... Why does it have to be represented in a negative light?
Users stating their views against Subscription is NOT belly aching till the cows come home.....
But when someone has made over a hundred posts on the same subject, including speculating on what might or might not happen with current resources and licenses, that probably does constitute belly-aching.
Surely by now Faithlife/Logos has got the message that there are some who want to ensure they do not lose what they have already paid for, so let's trust that they are smart enough and will ensure they do not lose thousands of their faithful customers.
In other words, let's wait until the final announcements - please!
I hope this is not the intent of your post. However, it sounds like the point you are making is a few posts against subscription is acceptable, but too many posts is then belly aching. Does the same apply to those who support subscription posting multiple times about how much they love it. Or is it just belly aching, If users do not agree with what they're being shown as the potential path forward for a product that many of us have invested significant resource and budget into?
Also, neither Bill nor Mark have earned my trust. The new logos also has not earned my trust. So you may be willing to just blindly trust the new direction of this company, but for myself and from the sounds of the forums, many of us are not willing to blindly trust a company that has been far too vague in answers to feedback that they have requested. Little bits and pieces rather than just coming. Straight forward with answers does not Garner trust for many individuals, myself included. While some of you may be tired of what you call bellyaching, if it was not for that, what you call bellyaching, we would not even have logos discussing any form of ownership option. So, while you may not be thankful for the belly aching, many are! While you may be willing to blindly trust, many do not desire to do so! All of that said, regardless of how many posts a person makes pro or con for any subject in these forums that is thoughtfully, respectfully, and without personal attack, should be respected and not have childlike insults thrown their way.!!
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Frank Sauer said:Roger Pitot said:
I agree that someone who express concerns about subscriptions is not belly-aching.Frank Sauer said:xnman said:anyone can belly ache till the cows come home... and I often wonder if many are just doing that.
What is the need to make negative comments about users that express their "2 Cents" and more importantly the feedback that Logos requested.... Why does it have to be represented in a negative light?
Users stating their views against Subscription is NOT belly aching till the cows come home.....
But when someone has made over a hundred posts on the same subject, including speculating on what might or might not happen with current resources and licenses, that probably does constitute belly-aching.
Surely by now Faithlife/Logos has got the message that there are some who want to ensure they do not lose what they have already paid for, so let's trust that they are smart enough and will ensure they do not lose thousands of their faithful customers.
In other words, let's wait until the final announcements - please!
I hope this is not the intent of your post. However, it sounds like the point you are making is a few posts against subscription is acceptable, but too many posts is then belly aching. Does the same apply to those who support subscription posting multiple times about how much they love it. Or is it just belly aching, If users do not agree with what they're being shown as the potential path forward for a product that many of us have invested significant resource and budget into?
Also, neither Bill nor Mark have earned my trust. The new logos also has not earned my trust. So you may be willing to just blindly trust the new direction of this company, but for myself and from the sounds of the forums, many of us are not willing to blindly trust a company that has been far too vague in answers to feedback that they have requested. Little bits and pieces rather than just coming. Straight forward with answers does not Garner trust for many individuals, myself included. While some of you may be tired of what you call bellyaching, if it was not for that, what you call bellyaching, we would not even have logos discussing any form of ownership option. So, while you may not be thankful for the belly aching, many are! While you may be willing to blindly trust, many do not desire to do so! All of that said, regardless of how many posts a person makes pro or con for any subject in these forums that is thoughtfully, respectfully, and without personal attack, should be respected and not have childlike insults thrown their way.!!
Amen!
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xnman said:
I need a bible program to help or assist me in my studies and teaching preparation... As for me, Logos Pro does that. And to that I say "Thanks!" uh was that 2 cents or 3 cents worth....
I agree! I'll just add 2 cents to that, and we'll make it a Nickle. [;)]
Above all these things, walk in love, which is the bond of perfection. - Colossians 3:14
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I really wish they would have left the Logos desktop app alone. It is really the only completely offline app left in the Logos lineup. If AI cloud junk must be the future of Logos, why not start with the web app? Why ruin a perfectly good standalone desktop app that can run without an internet connection?
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John said:
I really wish they would have left the Logos desktop app alone. It is really the only completely offline app left in the Logos lineup.
Cloud or internet required features (excluding sharing, recovery, backup, etc.)
- Factbook tags
- Media collections
- IgniterMedia.com section
- Web resources section
- Morph query document
- Atlas tool
- Bible browser
- Media tool
- Visual copy
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:
Cloud or internet required features (excluding sharing, recovery, backup, etc.)
- Factbook tags
- Media collections
- IgniterMedia.com section
- Web resources section
- Morph query document
- Atlas tool
- Bible browser
- Media tool
- Visual copy
I will be sure to NEVER rely on or depend on such features that stop working if an ISP has trouble or a server gets taken out by malware.
If I want to be completely dependent on the internet for everything I would get a $4/month subscription at one of the big Bible websites that now offer numerous study resources (just like Logos is beginning to do with its subscription model). Or I would just use the Logos web app.
What was the point of Logos developing the web app if they are just going to make the desktop app more and more dependent upon an internet connection anyway?
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John said:
What was the point of Logos developing the web app if they are just going to make the desktop app more and more dependent upon an internet connection anyway?
I understand that one of the main reasons was to provide a mechanism for people to access their resources and - some - desktop functionaity when they didn't have a desktop computer capable of running the desktop app.
And some of the features that require a network connection make use of significant computer power that is not available on desktop systems.
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John said:
What was the point of Logos developing the web app if they are just going to make the desktop app more and more dependent upon an internet connection anyway?
I've always thought of it in terms of performance and ability to customize the interface. But I don't know what the corporate considerations were.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:John said:
What was the point of Logos developing the web app if they are just going to make the desktop app more and more dependent upon an internet connection anyway?
I've always thought of it in terms of performance and ability to customize the interface. But I don't know what the corporate considerations were.
I do not use them, so I do not know. But I am going to take a wild guess here that some of the desktop features that you list as requiring a cloud connection ... are probably lacking in the web app ... am i right?
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John said:
But I am going to take a wild guess here that some of the desktop features that you list as requiring a cloud connection ... are probably lacking in the web app ... am i right?
Yes - but it is mixed
Factbook tags and the Morph Query documents are not available on web app but the Bible Browser and Atlas tools are
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The survey is very biased. In fact, there is no way to clearly state that you are completely against the subscription model and are certain that the company will be able to survive economically without a subscription model. It is pretended that there is no (economic) alternative to a subscription model - and that is simply a lie, as many companies prove that it is possible without a subscription model.
If you don't want to hear people's honest opinions, please don't ask. It annoys me even more this way, I'm already annoyed that you want to go this route at any price. If there was an alternative to Logos, I'd be gone - and I am also gone as a customer as soon as there is one. I have invested (ten-)thousands of euros in my library and have always been happy with Logos - and now greed is taking over and everything is going downhill (for me).To make it clear once again: I don't want to pay a lifetime rental fee! I want to purchase a (lifelong) license, and I am (more or less) happy to pay a suitable, high amount for it. I only want to pay for features when things are finally implemented that I can actually use (my suggestions are basically ignored (no, I'm not going to say which ones again, I've done it several times, even after being asked, and it never did any good), but hey, the main things are darkmode and "only on our servers working"-reference library and web app and mobile app and AI XYZ... *grmpf*).
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Thanks for posting this MJ. Where does one find this info?MJ. Smith said:John said:I really wish they would have left the Logos desktop app alone. It is really the only completely offline app left in the Logos lineup.
Cloud or internet required features (excluding sharing, recovery, backup, etc.)
- Factbook tags
- Media collections
- IgniterMedia.com section
- Web resources section
- Morph query document
- Atlas tool
- Bible browser
- Media tool
- Visual copy
I knew an internet connection was required to use the Atlas tool (which has always been a disappointment to me), but a few others like the Media tool and collections, Bible browser, and Factbook tags surprised me. I thought most of these things were only dependent on datasets, which I thought are stored on my PC. And just to clarify, is the Factbook completely dependent on the tags you noted? I.e. is it useless without them?
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Mirko said:
To make it clear once again: I don't want to pay a lifetime rental fee! I want to purchase a (lifelong) license, and I am (more or less) happy to pay a suitable, high amount for it.
With the recent announcement, it has become clear that those who want to purchase a permanent license can do so by purchasing a two-year subscription and immediately canceling auto-renewal, provided you already own L10. Through the Legacy Fallback License you will retain ownership of all non-AI/Cloud features, including the ones released in the two years in which you are subscribed. You can repeat this process every time you would like a feature update.
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Rick Ausdahl said:
Where does one find this info?
An Inline Search for Net in the helpfile is a good way of seeing this
Rick Ausdahl said:And just to clarify, is the Factbook completely dependent on the tags you noted? I.e. is it useless without them?
No, the Factbook itself works fine without a network connection. Factbook tags is a part of Factbook functionality - and does require a network connection to sync information shared by different users.
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