Logos on new Windows ARM computers (Copilot+ PCs) ...

Today is the day! Microsoft (and many other vendors like Dell, Lenovo, ASUS, etc) announced their answer to Apple's M-series computers ... Copilot+ PCs. Today the computers announced all run on the Snapdragon Elite X ARM processor. There supposed to be as fast as Apple's Mac Air M3s.

What does this mean for Logos Bible Sofware (and me)? I will be looking for an ARM compiled version of Logos! Until then, my Windows Logos software will have to be emulated (just like software had to be when the M1 processor was first released), which means slower 😒.

So, Logos, what's the plan?

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Rob Kuefner

Me too! Looking forward to getting an updated Windows machine and hoping that Logos has been working on this is the background

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

Any updates about ARM support on Windows will be posted to this feedback item: https://feedback.logos.com/boards/logos-desktop-app/posts/native-support-for-windows-on-arm

Mark

Thanks, Bradley for the link. Hopeful Logos will work well on this new device

Darren Swartzendruber

@Bradley - done.

Everyone else reading this ... please go to the link, comment, and vote it up. Thanks!

Zachary Rohman

Bradley, it has been over 6 months now.

We have now seen a SIGNIFICANT amount of Windows laptops running on ARM processors. Apple M1 laptops were supported, and we are now seeing like 30+ laptops running on ARM processors, and more are planned every year. This is not just a 1 time thing like it was with the Surface Pro a few years ago. Now we are seeing massive adoption of Windows laptops on ARM.

This should AT LEAST be in the discussion page, if not the "planned" stage on the feedback forum. Please escalate this.

JT (alabama24)

Apple M1 laptops were supported, and we are now seeing like 30+ laptops running on ARM processors, and more are planned every year.

100% of Macs are now ARM. What percentage of windows computers are? [Earnest question]

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

This should AT LEAST be in the discussion page, if not the "planned" stage on the feedback forum. Please escalate this.

I hear that it's very important to you to have an ARM-native version of Logos for your Windows computer.

We also have (many) feature requests from Intel-based Windows users and we have to decide where to deploy our limited engineering resources. So far, a port of Logos to Windows ARM hasn't reached the top of the priority list.

Mark

I hear that it's very important to you to have an ARM-native version of Logos for your Windows computer.

We also have (many) feature requests from Intel-based Windows users and we have to decide where to deploy our limited engineering resources. So far, a port of Logos to Windows ARM hasn't reached the top of the priority list.

So how do you determine when the percentage of people who find this important? Or do you determine by seeing the projection of how many pcs are adopting Arm?

This link https://www.counterpointresearch.com/insights/arm-based-pcs-to-nearly-double-market-share-by-2027/#:~:text=Arm%2Dbased%20notebooks%20will%20gain,both%20daily%20users%20and%20businesses suggests that that Arm could have a 50% share of the Windows PC market by 2029

Samuel Stone

I just got my Surface Laptop 7 (ARM). I installed Logos and so far it's working fine, although a littler slower. My other non-ARM apps also work fine through automatic emulation. I'll keep testing out.

I believe a native ARM version of Proclaim is more urgent than Logos because Logo is not a worship service app. It's for research and Bible Study, which is mostly used on Android, Fire Tablets, and iPads, or Web. So, I would rather see Proclaim on ARM first.

I use the ARM-based Davinci Resolve for video editing and enjoy it. I don't think I'll go back to Intel. I was considering buying an Intel Lunar Lake, but it performs poorly on GPU intensive apps. ARM looks very promising.

Veli Voipio

I've got lost with these processor names. Last summer I've bought a Dell with a Meteor Lake, and it works well, seen no instability.

I am just wondering, could it be possible to provide unsupported ARM and Linux versions for those who want to play with it?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1349322#Comment_1349322

ARM would be expected to appear in a Beta release, subject to Bradley's comment. Linux??

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

I am just wondering, could it be possible to provide unsupported ARM and Linux versions for those who want to play with it?

If we had an ARM version, we would release it in beta for testing. The issue is that we don't have one and it would take months of development effort to build. The nature of the beta test (unsupported or supported) doesn't really change that.

Matt Shriner

Just wanted to post as I have been considering purchasing an ARM laptop for better battery life as opposed to my power hungry Legion 5 slim…lol. Does anyone run Logos on something with the Snapdragon elite or plus? Wondering how it performs through emulation.

John

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1351912#Comment_1351912

I have no firsthand experience on this. But there is a lot of data out there on these chips now.

They do indeed perform better than Intel on battery life when running natively compiled programs. But based on information I have seen, whenever you are having to run a program in X86/64 emulation mode, those great scores disappear into oblivion.

if Logos is an important program to you, then you should buy hardware to run it that is supported by Logos.

Rob Kuefner

I have been using Logos on my Surface Laptop 7 with the Snapdragon X Elite ARM Chipset and Proclaim and haven't had any problems at all. I know they are both running in emulation mode, but I haven't really noticed any issues of speed or ability to do what I need to do within Logos or Proclaim. I do love the battery life which is really just a game changer compared to my other Windows laptops of the past.

There have only been a few hiccups in my use of ARM. The biggest is printing. Our church office has a Sharp Multi-function printer, which is tied to our network and we print through that. But the software won't install. There is a Sharp app in the Windows store that allows me to print on the copier, but it's limited in all the functions, so while I usually could choose to staple or select the bypass tray or a number of things, I can't with the more limited windows store app. While not a direct Logos issue, I can't go into Logos and choose to print to my printer. Instead I have to save as a pdf and then go to the Sharp app and print. Again, not an issue with Logos, but just thought I'd share for those who might tie into an office copier as a printer, as that might be a problem.

John

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1353337#Comment_1353337

You would need printer drivers written for ARM. Drivers cannot run in emulation mode. Unless it’s a really old unsupported device, I would be surprised if they were not available yet.

https://global.sharp/products/copier/info/info_arm-windows_2024-09.html

Rob Kuefner

John

It's a copier which we leased two years ago, and I check Sharp website all the time. Oddly, I can get the scanner to be recognized but not the printer when it comes to installing through Add a printer in Windows. It does install the scanner driver. The Sharp MFP software for the copier will download and go through the install process. It will identify that I have Windows 11 and then it pops up that it is an unsupported OS. There are no ARM compatible drivers that I have been able to locate and I put the local Sharp tech support through the ringer trying to help me. Honestly, I think I knew more than they did at the time. As noted, I can print through the Sharpdesk Mobile app in the Windows store, but it is limited in what features the copier actually has available to use, that would usually be available to me in the printer settings. If I really need to print something with more options, I pull out my Surface Pro Laptop 3.

John

If your printer is supported by a Windows printer driver, (very likely) you still might not be able to install it if the manufacturer has not written an arm specific installer program.

network printers can be a little tricky sometimes when installing drivers. An old trick that I have used before was too plugged the printer into a USB port on the computer, let plug-in play detect the printer, and it should automatically install whatever generic drivers that Microsoft has available.

the following link says basically the same thing

https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/help-with-installing-printers-on-arm-pcs-fe3e5b19-a15a-4ae6-a0c0-502b45f1b4c9

If that doesn’t work, you may just be out of luck. At least until the manufacturer writes an ARM specific installer file. But this just serves as an example, if you are adopting a brand new platform some things are just not going to work.

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1349308#Comment_1349308

Samuel, can we get an update on your experience with ARM?

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1353337#Comment_1353337

Rob, it is nice to hear your review. It is the 1st positive review I have seen, so I am still not ready to bite. Please check in from time to time to update us your exprience

Mark

Windows Arm

Intel Lunar Lake

AMD Ryzen

Intel’s Meteor Lake

Can someone confirm that Logos works (without emulation) on all these chips except ARM?

Can someone comment on the AMD and Intel Chips vs ARM?

John

@Mark

Can someone confirm that Logos works (without emulation) on all these chips except ARM?

Logos supports Windows 10 (Until October) and Windows 11. But not ARM versions.

Logos Minimum System Requirements

Logos recommends "Latest generation Intel Core i7 processor (or AMD equivalent)" on this page.

However, Intel has been having problems with its two most recent series of desktop processors, 13th and 14th generation. There are also rumors that problems also exist in the latest Arrow Lake processors. Problems are specifically with high end desktop chips. You may want to play it safe by avoiding these Intel processors.

If you search the internet, you will find hundreds of discussions about this, mostly on gamer and benchmark forums. Intel sold a bunch of bad processors, and rather than taking responsibility, issued a "fix" in the form of a microcode update that essentially throttle the processor to prevent voltage issues. This prevented total failure of the chip, so that Intel did not have to replace under warranty. Later they issued "fixes" for Windows 11. Now they claim all the problems are fixed. But people doing performance intensive gaming and bench-marking are pretty sure they aren't.

Intel stock is down 55% in the last year. That is after it jumped almost 10% recently upon rumors of an acquisition. Last year it was Apple and Samsung that were interested. Latest rumors are that Elon Musk might buy it.

If Logos is your primary concern, a Mac is probably your best choice right now. Apple clearly knew where Intel was headed and released their own chips before the disaster at Intel took place. But if you are tied to Windows, there are older intel systems that still perform well. Or there is AMD.

John

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1354904#Comment_1354904

You wrote:

Logos recommends "Latest generation Intel Core i7 processor (or AMD equivalent)" on this page.

But the page mentions nothing about MAC M Chip….only an intel chip for MACS. Would that not mean that the page has not been updated for a while?

John

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1354910#Comment_1354910

You are right, I did not look at the MacOS part of the page. I think it’s safe to say that it hasn’t been updated in a while. 😂

Steven Blythe

I just canceled my Surface ARM computer purchase after learning it isn't supported.

My old computer runs too slow with Logos.

What windows laptop does Logos recommend for running their software?

I may have to get a different Bible Program. If so, are there Bible programs that run with Windows ARM?

Dave Hooton

What windows laptop does Logos recommend for running their software?

See https://support.logos.com/hc/en-us/articles/360007554992-Recommended-Hardware-and-Software-for-Logos

A Core i5 would also be suitable, but ignore Core i3. An SSD is a requirement, don't think about HDD's. Note the free space recommendation which could mean that 512 GB drive is insufficient (you can check how much you use on your current computer).

John

@Steven Blythe

… are there Bible programs that run with Windows ARM?

The only ones at this time seem to be those that can run under the Microsoft Prism x86-64 emulation. So the answer is for Logos … sorta but you might be disappointed if you try it.

Simpler Bible programs that are less powerful might run ok under emulation. But do you really want to take that chance?

Chad Katter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/1365083#Comment_1365083

I've used Logos on my Surface Pro ARM device for the past 6+ months. It crashes occasionally, but usually works okay. I try to save an updated layout several times a day.