Faithlife Please do not ignore to reply to this thread.
Please respond to this thread as well as you are concerned about subscription. you once promised to add personal books to mobile devices, but unfortunately you changed your mind and it did not happen. It would be very nice if you could consider adding it.Personal books on mobile devices - Logos Forums
Blessings in Christ.
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Great thoughts and hopefully this will become a truth to us in the forums.
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Bump!
Luke 18:39
Blessings in Christ.
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I am unaware that they ever made this promise. Can you reproduce the thread?
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I can't figure it out now, but it might be this link that is now disabled. https://logosmobile.uservoice.com/forums/190765-logos-mobile-apps/suggestions/3625331-pbb-sync-to-mobile .
Fred Chapman has quoted the statement of Bob on this thread https:Personal books on mobile? - Logos Forums//
Blessings in Christ.
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Mark said:
I am unaware that they ever made this promise. Can you reproduce the thread?
Here are Bob's words:Personal Books on iOS - Logos Forums
Blessings in Christ.
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Tes said:Mark said:
I am unaware that they ever made this promise. Can you reproduce the thread?
Here are Bob's words:Personal Books on iOS - Logos Forums
Plans does not equal promise. Remember it was users use of personal books that made Bob pull back over legal concerns.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Tes said:Mark said:
I am unaware that they ever made this promise. Can you reproduce the thread?
Here are Bob's words:Personal Books on iOS - Logos Forums
Plans does not equal promise. Remember it was users use of personal books that made Bob pull back over legal concerns.
Also, remember that Bob is not the CEO nor primary owner of the company anymore. Something he may have promised in the past is not binding on future owners/leadership of the company.
Tes said:Faithlife Please do not ignore to reply to this thread.
Also remember that employees of Faithlife usually do not peruse the General forum to answer posts here. The forums are largely for users supporting users. Some FL staff do check in on certain of the forums now and then, for bug reports and to gauge feedback on newly announced features/changes in direction, etc. But I wouldn't hold my breath on this one. Continued bumping won't make any difference.
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Tes said:
Here are Bob's words:Personal Books on iOS - Logos Forums
That was 11 years ago. And no promise was made. On the contrary, it has been said many times since that this will never happen. Back 11 years ago, PB was going in a direction that was eventually abandoned. The solution that has worked for me is to have a Surface Pro tablet. So I have access to PB wherever I go (just not on my phone).
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If they want our money, they should do what we want!
Χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν, ἡ ἐλπὶς τῆς δόξης·
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Fabian said:
If they want our money, they should do what we want!
er...ah... as an IT retiree, I recognize that many things we want are not realistic ... or, put more bluntly, we wouldn't be able to run Logos on our devices and/or we couldn't afford to even rent Logos if they gave us what we want. And that is even leaving out the requests that expect the application to read our mind.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Good grief! A man once told me I should wish in one hand and pour water in the other hand and see which one fills up faster! To that I would say, some people are so busy wishing for what they don't have that they can't enjoy what they do have!
But maybe some wishes are not wishes at all... maybe they were meant as demand???? [8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
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Tes said:
Please respond to this thread
This request was made and denied over 8 years ago. What makes anyone think the programing, economic & legal situation has changed so that this dead horse keeps being beaten?
https://community.logos.com/forums/p/126859/848584.aspx#848584
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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David Thomas said:
This request was made and denied over 8 years ago. What makes anyone think the programing, economic & legal situation has changed
Time really has gone by - and much has changed in the programming and technology field. Space to save information has become much faster (and cheaper), thus maybe making it possible to store large numbers of PBs in Logos' central index. Programming (maybe even with the help of KI) may be utilized to detect identical instances of PBs that were built from the same source. Internet bandwith got better, allowing transmittal of the related larger amount of information .The power and storage space of mobile devices has changed, so it might be an option now to have a local index on the mobile device (like we have on the desktop) instead of a central server. Or utilize some kind of logic to build information we are likely to look for next - offline and/or online - thus overcoming the technical difficulties Bob encountered back in the day.
The legal situation never was black and white and might have clarified a little over the years, and the advanced technology might give Logos a chance to detect and refuse blatant copyright violations, thus keeping them out of legal trouble. This never was the real issue (there's probably not much legal difference between uploaded PBs that sync to three desktop instances as opposed to syncing that same PB to one desktop, one mobile and a web app instance).
The economic situation definitely is undergoing a seismic shift with the move to "subscription first" and the rethinking of what and how people are paying for. The question can be openly discussed at the Bellingham HQ: What would it cost to build and maintain that, and how many users would need to pay an additional $X per month just for this feature? If the number of those willing to do so at a reasonable level of X (say $5) is high enough for Logos to make a profit, it makes sense. Of course this has vastly changed over the last eight years. Revamping the PB functionality will make it easier to spread into new language markets. A new PB compiler could also be build in a way to prevent building a PB that competes with existing Logos books, or even make it possible to "revoke" a PB license once the same book ships in the store, thus taking away Bob's fear of helping us compete with him.
Due to all of this, I think the time is good to reconsider. Will we get PBs on mobile now? I don't know. Maybe there still are obstacles that simply can't be overcome - maybe it takes another 8 or 18 or 28 years, or the question becomes moot someday (our current differentiation between desktop and mobile may be something no longer applicable in the future).
Have joy in the Lord!
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I hope so.
Given the improvements to technology, based on the similar/same source thing you mentioned, they could likely also use that to determine if a book matches a logos book, and if so block it from being shared. It wouldn't stop people from sharing books like Bram Stokers Dracula. But it would put a dent in the illegal sharing situation. Might even be a good application for AI.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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NB.Mick said:
Due to all of this, I think the time is good to reconsider. Will we get PBs on mobile now? I don't know. Maybe there still are obstacles that simply can't be overcome - maybe it takes another 8 or 18 or 28 years, or the question becomes moot someday (our current differentiation between desktop and mobile may be something no longer applicable in the future).
This is a feature that has seen no development/improvement over the past 8 years. That sort of abandonment has historically preceded features being deprecated in Logos and eventually removed. The thing is, I think they'd rather rip the feature out completely than add it to the mobile platform. It never ended up being used for what they had envisioned it being used for (authors creating PB's of their own books) but rather for converting other books (mostly public domain, one would think, though of course many people have in their own discretion privately digitized copyrighted books for their own purposes; I know I have).
There is zero benefit to Logos to continuing to improve this feature or bring it to mobile devices. It could continue to cut into their potential revenue by allowing people to digitize books they own in print so they don't need to buy them from Logos.
As Bob said 8 years ago, only a very tiny percentage of Logos users even use PBs. It did not, when he wrote that, and most likely still does not, make any economic sense for them to pour any more attention into the PB feature.
Can you now see why the continued requests for this feature to be brought to mobile are falling on deaf ears? It's got 511 votes on the feedback board. The most votes of all (either mobile or desktop), and it has not even been marked "Under consideration." Give it up. They are not going to consider it. It's probably something they wish they never implemented. Bob said at the time that they had no plans to rip it out, but if it ever became too problematic to maintain even in its current functionality with future engine changes, I bet they would in a heartbeat. They'd get a lot of flak from the few passionate PB users, but they'd weather that storm.
I have 188 PBs, and I've appreciated having the feature on the desktop, but I would survive if it went away.
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Rosie Perera said:
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As Bob said 8 years ago, only a very tiny percentage of Logos users even use PBs. It did not, when he wrote that, and most likely still does not, make any economic sense for them to pour any more attention into the PB feature.
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I have 188 PBs, and I've appreciated having the feature on the desktop, but I would survive if it went away.
I suspect customers would far more value importable PDFs and docs (of various formats). That's what I have in my Bible software. Efficient, easily sharable, and searchable as well. Plus these import into Kindle too. Maybe a subscribable feature!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Unfortunately, with how rare it has become for Logos to actually add highly requested books/bibles/other resources from the book requests on the user boards, adding them via PB is really the only option we are left with for many resources which are “must haves” for some of us. If that went away I’d likely need to switch to Accordance full time.
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Rosie Perera said:
It never ended up being used for what they had envisioned it being used for (authors creating PB's of their own books) but rather for converting other books (mostly public domain, one would think, though of course many people have in their own discretion privately digitized copyrighted books for their own purposes; I know I have).
In my experience, The development of Sermon Builder permits me to put MY ORIGINAL CONTENT into the Logos ecosystem and the Add to Library feature permits me to incorporate material in other formats into my searches. Since my "Sermons" docs are accessible in mobile, I believe Logos HAS invested the resources into developing features that accomplish their original intent without adopting the broader practice of converting larger works into PBs, which has no economic value to the software developers who graciously host my "sermons" on their servers.
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
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Speculation upon speculation and some seem to represent and trying to speak on behalf of Faithlife. As long as it is not against the forum guidelines. I think we all have the freedom to ask questions and expect answers from Faithlife. Sometimes it makes you think you are different. I still expect Faithlife to give the final answer at some point.
Blessings in Christ.
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Tes said:
Speculation upon speculation and some seem to represent and trying to speak on behalf of Faithlife. As long as it is not against the forum guidelines. I think we all have the freedom to ask questions and expect answers from Faithlife.
Given the annoyance of some in the forums against prolific posters, bumps, and duplicate posts over the years, I suspect that the general consensus is that there is a point at which insisting on answers or noting on each release that your favorite bug/design flaw has not been fixed becomes an issue of courtesy and consideration of others. Given your friendliness, I suspect you do think so as well.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Tes said:
Speculation upon speculation and some seem to represent and trying to speak on behalf of Faithlife. As long as it is not against the forum guidelines. I think we all have the freedom to ask questions and expect answers from Faithlife. Sometimes it makes you think you are different. I still expect Faithlife to give the final answer at some point.
I don't claim to speak on behalf of Faithlife. You certainly have the freedom to ask all you want. I just am trying to set your expectations lower than they are, having observed FL's lack of engagement here on the General forum. If you really want a reply from Faithlife, posting here isn't the way to get an official answer from them.
We used to be able to email Bob directly for stuff we really cared about that wasn't being addressed here. I don't know if the new CEO Bill McCarthy is as available to answer emails as Bob was, and I can't find his email address listed anywhere. But you could try contacting him via the Faithlife platform: https://faithlife.com/bill-gn
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