Many requests to get PBBs on mobile devices such as: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/61021/432803.aspx#432803 http://community.logos.com/forums/p/72400/504108.aspx#504108 http://community.logos.com/forums/p/49739/367841.aspx#367841 https://community.logos.com/forums/p/72434/504321.aspx#504321
Others
And that was the list from July of 2013
What is the hang up?
Details please: For example: Have you got it working on some but not others? Are you having problems with copyrights?
Usually Logos won't answer, unless the Logosians' anger has reached 'white' hot and they're collecting wood for a big fire. So, I'll start collecting twigs.
Notice app features have gone to sleep. I think Kevin is now helping out on the old desktop platform problems (L6).
Notice also a considerable amount of noise over in web-dev for the web app. Subscription.
There is your answer. I'd be stupid to put PBs on the free app, when I need a honeypot on the paid version.
It goes back farther than that. Our first glimpse was 2009, when Bob highlighted current thoughts including a "store" or sorts:
[quote]
PBB for Logos 4 isn't coded yet... so things are still flexible.
The basic idea is:
A) No more second-class citizens. PBB will use the same internal file format as books we distribute, so highlighting and other features "just work."
Compiling will probably be done on the server. (Because we're making PBB books first-class citizens, they need to go through the primary metadata and license databases, so we can sync them to your multiple devices, let your read your PBB's on your iPhone, etc.)
C) Your content defaults to private, just like your notes and other information.
D) You'll have the option to share your books with "groups" of other people. (And your notes, highlights, etc.) You'll have per-file control of exactly what you share and who you share it with.
E) We're considering a PBB store, like the App Stores for mobile phones, where you could choose to sell PBB's for which you owned the copyright, with Logos handling the credit card transactions, downloading, etc.
This is just "the state of the thinking"....
-- Bob
It looks like PBs finally came out in Logos 4 in 2011, by August people were looking for the mobile sync believing it was being worked on and was coming:
https://community.logos.com/forums/t/37366.aspx
https://community.logos.com/forums/t/36814.aspx
Now in case "some" (cough, cough) might say this is why Faithlife cannot ever talk about anything in the future, because what has been said in the past is held against them, that misses the point. What is past is past, I would be supremely delighted just to know it's legitimately being worked on for a version 6 or version 7 release. It amazes me that Faithlife thinks saying nothing about a feature many users look forward to, after an expectation has been set, is the best course. In fact, many others would probably start to use and appreciate PBs if this, and library management, could finally be added to substantially improve the implementation of Personal Books 5 years later.
I think Logos is a business - a great business that does great things - but a business first. Like all businesses, Logos has experienced financial pressures in this economy.
Personal books are not a revenue producer. Therefore, personal books are not nearly as high a priority to the company as to the customers. When it comes to upgrading personal books, It is a more of a "we will get around to it" feature.
That is not unreasonable of Logos. But is an inconvenient reality for many of us.
I would be supremely delighted just to know it's legitimately being worked on for a version 6 or version 7 release
It could be, but I doubt it. I don't have time to search right now, but a number of employees have posted on in, including Bob.
Due to recent staff cuts, we had to stop development on some features; PBB sync was one of those features.
I gave up and abandoned the dream since Kevin indicated it is less an overwhelming technical issue and more of a concern over copyrights and piracy. He didn't, however, explain how the current desktop Upload button does not have those issues.
Thanks Bradley, at least we know.
Personal books are not a revenue producer.
As an FYI Michael, that can be said for ANY software feature in Logos outside of Logos Now features.
I'm having a Linkin Park moment right now. I try so hard to like (and trust) this company, but in the end, it doesn't really matter.
Due to recent staff cuts, we had to stop development on some features; PBB sync was one of those features. Thanks Bradley, at least we know. Personal books are not a revenue producer.
I agree that the majority of the marketing and engineering budget seems to be focused on Logos Now. I cannot believe that they would prioritize some of the niche features in the Logos Now releases over something we all want...PBB sync!
Agape,
Steve
The reality is they want to expand the sub set of customers that they are regularly taking cash off hence a whole range of subscription opportunities they are offering their customers to get them to regularly hand over cash to them including beside Logos/Verbum Now or Logos/Verbum Cloud, Bible Study Magazine, Proclaim, FaithlifeTV, SoundFaith, Mobile Ed. Subscriptions & Book Rentals. And you are exactly right this is where they are focusing their budget on these things. They are throwing all their eggs into these baskets alone in the hope that we will like sheep follow where all the hype is an sign over our money to them. They seem to have forgotten what we value most are the things that engaged us with this company in the first place.
As a customer I find this answer disappointing on so many levels.
Faithlife is investing in a tremendous number of new ventures, both extensions of Bible study into new markets via new channels (web sites, apps, etc.) as well as complementary products. We have heard loud and clear Bob wants new customers. The money for this had to come from somewhere - it came, and comes from the cash cow, Logos/Verbum. Add the need to create new functionality in every point release of Logos/Verbum in order to make the subscription model attractive to new subscribers - and you have lot of competition for the dollar that is higher priority than features that need a refresh, that we have used for a while and continue to use in our daily study.
While investing in new ventures, channels, and markets is necessary for survival, what disappoints me is I think it's taken too big of a hit out of software that needs its own reinvestment - which is starting to hurt the very software that drives the resource purchases. Even fundamental functionality like "search" needs more attention, not less. While this area has received attention with a lot of data tagging that creates new abilities to find things, it amazes me how many times a simple Google search finds an answer instantly that I have no idea how to find in Logos/Verbum (in part because of the dizzying array of search syntax, types of searches, and overlapping guides we face when we have a problem to solve). This is not meant to be critical of data tagging, more to say in the grand scheme of things it is version 1 and needs investment, user interface needs refinement, simplification. (And don't even get me started on the fact that you don't even get highlighted search results in Notes! A worthless feature and waste of time when you have longer Notes!)
Bob has told us Faithlife is not Google, granted - but I believe this need would have been better served without some of these "distractions" - and there are more ways to solve a problem now than there were when Logos 4 eliminated Fuzzy Search, a Logos 3 feature, in 2011 - but that's just one example. I am really shocked that in 12 "Now" releases we haven't seen a more concerted effort to refresh existing features that are going on 5 years old in some cases. There has been some work, but it's a minority of the Now software investment - and the Logos/Verbum software is suffering IMHO.
It could get worse, it could snowball - if users who suffer from their favorite features being ignored don't really want to pay for the new "Now" features, will there be a lot fewer upgrades to version 7 in lieu of cross-grades, and a lot less cross-grades in lieu of free engine upgrades? Will people see less value in adding resources to their libraries, because the often-premium pricing of those resources is not realized in the value perceived from software that has holes in how existing users want to work with the software? What good are Personal Books if we can't use them on our mobile devices, phones, tablets, which is quickly becoming the large majority of what people use today? This seems like turning a blind eye to the true priorities Faithlife should be working on IMHO.
I hope this post is taken constructively - I don't think Faithlife does enough to ask customers what they think, to be transparent, to offer plans, to share, in response to comments, complaints, and questions - so it feels like all we can do is lob grenades over the wall and hope it gets someone's attention before it's too late. No company has proven impervious to the unsatisfied needs of its customers forever, no matter what the costs to switch. Ignoring long-standing product enhancement needs in Logos/Verbum is a dangerous path to walk down IMHO.
.....What good are Personal Books if we can't use them on our mobile devices, phones, tablets, which is quickly becoming the large majority of what people use today? This seems like turning a blind eye to the true priorities Faithlife should be working on IMHO. I hope this post is taken constructively - I don't think Faithlife does enough to ask customers what they think, to be transparent, to offer plans, to share, in response to comments, complaints, and questions - so it feels like all we can do is lob grenades over the wall and hope it gets someone's attention before it's too late. No company has proven impervious to the unsatisfied needs of its customers forever, no matter what the costs to switch. Ignoring long-standing product enhancement needs in Logos/Verbum is a dangerous path to walk down IMHO.
.....What good are Personal Books if we can't use them on our mobile devices, phones, tablets, which is quickly becoming the large majority of what people use today? This seems like turning a blind eye to the true priorities Faithlife should be working on IMHO.
[Y]
another big disappointment [:@]
That may be true, but for the cost of LOGOS (which for many is expensive), it should be more of a priority for the company when so many customers are wanting this feature! Just sayin'...
It should at least be a feature to sync via cable on a personal level. I believe there would be user storage issues to be able to sync over the air between devices, but it should at least be available via local sync and cables.
I was very disappointed to see that this was not a feature of the initial Logos 7 release.
Personal Book Builder was shipped August 10, 2011, over 5 years ago. Once the initial shipment was made and the early bugs corrected, development has pretty much shut down on it. No better library management, no easier way to sync ALL personal books, no easy way to delete books without a bunch of hiding/unhiding on each install. Note too you never see any blogs, marketing materials, etc. about the feature.
As far as I can tell it's not even mentioned in the list of features of Logos 7. If that doesn't tell you something I don't know what does. That and the fact FL won't say anything about it other than "It's on the list". For 5+ years?
We have been waiting for improved functionality ... it seems the chances of seeing a major enhancement to support mobile seems very, VERY slim at this point. Those that complain about it (like me) are an insignificant part of the FL customer base.
During the same time period, savvy users have discovered ways to use the PBB well beyond what Faithlife likely intended as the target usage. While that horse is out of the barn, allowing the PBB to fade into "shadow-ware" is the next best option.
development has pretty much shut down on it. No better library management, no easier way to sync ALL personal books, no easy way to delete books without a bunch of hiding/unhiding on each install. Note too you never see any blogs, marketing materials, etc. about the feature. As far as I can tell it's not even mentioned in the list of features of Logos 7
development has pretty much shut down on it. No better library management, no easier way to sync ALL personal books, no easy way to delete books without a bunch of hiding/unhiding on each install. Note too you never see any blogs, marketing materials, etc. about the feature.
As far as I can tell it's not even mentioned in the list of features of Logos 7
As I mentioned, I am using PBB now primarily to import my sermon notes and preach with the Bible on the left of the screen and the notes on the right of the screen. What I like about this is the ability to hover over verse references as well as the possibility to have hundreds of sermons stored in one place to be used at a moment's notice. For this reason I am really saddened to realize that PBB is not even mentioned as a L7 feature.
I would not be surprised to see the Personal Book feature disappear from Logos at some point, but I would be very disappointed.
This feels like the downward side of a roller coaster.
First, no PB's on mobiles yet ... but have developed desktop sync through Logos servers (hello).
Then 'stopped working on it (mobile PB) due to staff cuts'. (Another clue ... not much else mobile either).
Then surmising by a Logos staff, 'it might be dangerous' (like hosting desktop PBs already?)
Then, yes, mobile PBs might be super-dangerous. Oh my! Logosian lawyers are luckily free.
Then, L7 marketing forgot PBs (or carefully left them out!)
And finally, PBs are or will be phased out. Like Libby's?
How can it get any worse? Logos prevents users from deleting their uploaded PBs! There must be something in that.
I use Personal Books, but I have not paid much attention to the desktop syncing because I considered it irrelevant to me. I use the Surface Pro as both tablet (mobile) and desktop. So I always have my Personal Books.
Would someone explain to me about the desktop syncing of personal books? Are my personal books automatically synced to the Logos servers? When I update from Surface Pro 3 to Surface Pro 5 in the future, will this be of help to me?
Thanks for explaining to one who obviously is behind.
Add the need to create new functionality in every point release of Logos/Verbum in order to make the subscription model attractive to new subscribers
More like new shovelware resources that are only appealing to a fraction of a fraction of the theological community. If they want to attract a solid broad base maybe they could focus more on getting the best classic and contemporary resources and stop trying to cram us with 1,000 resources forgotten in the in the dustbin of history plus FaithlifeTV.
Take Noet as an example. Suppose I'm teaching a course on Plato next semester and I'm trying to decide on the resources and materials to use. What immediately comes to mind as I plan the course would be Allan Bloom's The Republic of Plato, 2nd ed. and Plato: Complete Works eds. Cooper and Hutchinson. I could do that for $70. What definitely wouldn't come to mind is to spend $100 on the 1892 Benjamin Jowett translations that I can find for *free*. "But the search functionality!" has been the typical defense of paying more for a product that isn't up to date with the most recent scholarship... Sorry, but that fails because if I bought the digital versions of Bloom & Cooper/Hutchingson from a certain other major online retailer I would have search functionality and now be spending even less money: $51.
While my example deals with Noet, in my opinion, this is the same problem plaguing Logos and why people like me are spending our money elsewhere. ...Though I won't be dogmatic about it.
Too bad. Hopefully the development starts soon again.
Due to recent staff cuts, we had to stop development on some features; PBB sync was one of those features. Too bad. Hopefully the development starts soon again.
I doubt it, Bradley stated that 4 years ago and nothing else has been said about it. We can only hope that will change maybe some day.
DAL
Usually customer-desired features must 'gather interest' for at least five years (so FL can tag them as 'done' or died).
I doubt PBB's will hit mobile this side of heaven. FL's a legasy-desktop company. And the L4-9 has way too much invested. It's a Sears equation.
Faithlife Corporation has business motivation not to develop as expressed by Bob Pritchett, Faithlife CEO, on 8 Sep 2016 => https://community.logos.com/forums/p/126859/848584.aspx#848584
Faithlife pays attention to UserVoice. How many votes are there for PBBs on mobile on UserVoice...?
Thankful for Faithlife paying attention to UserVoice [:D]
Keep Smiling [:)]
