a question from an Accordance User
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[Y]ReformedDoc said:Rick is in the Logos house!!!
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Rick Mansfield said:
I'm not closing the door on Accordance, but definitely moving to dual-user status. I'm looking forward to exploring Logos's strengths and figuring out how things work (including personal books like Kristin asked about! Sorry to hijack your thread.)
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
I will not spend another penny on resources
You sure? I just looked and they have a massive sale going on ... up to 69% off [;)]
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John said:Donovan R. Palmer said:
I will not spend another penny on resources
You sure? I just looked and they have a massive sale going on ... up to 69% off
I have most of those titles in Logos, but because I use that platform for language studies, I have always kept my library very focused. In fact, I don’t install their ‘clutter’ because I only want what I need for this purpose.
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I have so little confidence in the future of Accordance under the current management that even though I own almost everything they offer, I'm buying all my favorite resources in Logos.
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Jonathan Huber said:
I'm not closing the door on Accordance, but definitely moving to dual-user status. I'm looking forward to exploring Logos's strengths and figuring out how things work (including personal books like Kristin asked about! Sorry to hijack your thread.)
There are actually a decent number of dual platform users around here. Years ago I was forced this direction by necessity of formal studies which required academic resources that were only in Logos. I was travelling worldwide at the time and paper copies were not an option either. So for years I enjoyed the strengths of each programme and have posted on many occasion on how much I enjoyed having a foot in each camp.
With that said, the buggyness of Accordance, the corruption of data and the lack of age old tech like synchronisation, has changed the layout of the land considerably. The things I used to give Logos a hard time about when they first got onto the Mac platform, are now Accordance issues in spades, but years later on what should be a very mature platform.
This combined with the new management style and loss of their community culture, which I patiently waited several years to see if it was just a blip, has really caused me to re-evaluate. There is no prize for being right about concerns in regard to a product we love and badly need in the Bible software community, but I am not very optimistic about the future unless there is a significant change in management.
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
There are actually a decent number of dual platform users around here.
I use Logos and Accordance together, each day. A lot can be done quicker on Accordance. Certainly, the graphics. I'm currently tempted to get the Masorah Thesaurus ... Logos CitedBy with my masorah collection is fine for references mainly. We'll see.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
There are actually a decent number of dual platform users around here.
Am I the only triple user? [H]
Yes I invested in Accordance too. I have it installed, but I rarely use it.
I still use Bibleworks regularly. And I have a very large investment in logos, but I’m still learning how to use it. Learning very slowly, I might add.
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DMB said:
I use Logos and Accordance together, each day. A lot can be done quicker on Accordance. Certainly, the graphics
To be fair, this is where I still constructively (and sincerely) critique Logos. I applaud that particularly in version 10 they addressed the speed of the software. This is awesome. It was a longstanding complaint by many.
However, it is not just speed of software, but adjusting the user interface in a way that reduces friction in workflows. I have felt that Logos has been a bit tone deaf on this in regard to the language and textual studies crowd. There is a lot of wasted space and inefficiency. So for example, recently I posted in the desktop forum that the tooltip popup that shows parsing information is almost unusable, but on the other hand the information window is too heavy and inefficient. Also, even the formatting of the text, the slider bars, etc, really take up unnecessary space when you are trying to put a number of texts together side by side. The inability to adjust and fine tune each text pane at a more granular level creates an unnecessary one size fits all which is inefficient and crude. I hope someone can add this to the equation at some point.
DMB said:I'm currently tempted to get the Masorah Thesaurus
This is definitely a cool tool!
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
So for example, recently I posted in the desktop forum that the tooltip popup that shows parsing information is almost unusable, but on the other hand the information window was too heavy and inefficient.
I spent quite a bit of time today trying to figure out what settings would make this better. Glad to know it's not just me!
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Mark Allison said:
I have so little confidence in the future of Accordance under the current management that even though I own almost everything they offer, I'm buying all my favorite resources in Logos.
This is where I'm at. Duplicating all of the commentaries in particular isn't feasible at this point, but I picked up some legacy library materials and am planning to get one of the academic packages to unlock the feature sets. That should be plenty to get started with. And to my great surprise, the lower level legacy packages even included some books I don't have in Accordance but would like to have. So that was pretty nice.
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Mark Allison said:
I have so little confidence in the future of Accordance under the current management that even though I own almost everything they offer, I'm buying all my favorite resources in Logos.
Maybe Logos can buy Accordance and transfer all your resources like they did when they bought Wordsearch 👍
DAL
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
I still constructively (and sincerely) critique Logos... in regard to the language and textual studies crowd. There is a lot of wasted space and inefficiency.
Amen.
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Jonathan Huber said:
I picked up some legacy library materials
I keep hearing this phrase, but I'm kind of confused by it. What does "legacy" mean in this context?
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Kristin said:Jonathan Huber said:
I picked up some legacy library materials
I keep hearing this phrase, but I'm kind of confused by it. What does "legacy" mean in this context?
There are Logos Legacy Libraries. Basically the books that were sold as part of Logos 5 through 9. There are multiple levels for each Logos version too. Starter->Bronze->Silver->Gold-:>etc. You can find them on Logos.com by searching for "Legacy Library" or by going to Books and Courses then choosing Legacy Libraries under Bundles.
Windows 11 & macOS 15 (Logos Pro) |iOS 18 (Logos MobileBeta)
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Chris Heil said:
There are Logos Legacy Libraries. Basically the books that were sold as part of Logos 5 through 9. There are multiple levels for each Logos version too. Starter->Bronze->Silver->Gold-:>etc. You can find them on Logos.com by searching for "Legacy Library" or by going to Books and Courses then choosing Legacy Libraries under Bundles.
Oh, ok. Thank you for clarifying.
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Steve
John said:Donovan R. Palmer said:
There are actually a decent number of dual platform users around here.
Am I the only triple user?
Yes I invested in Accordance too. I have it installed, but I rarely use it.
I still use Bibleworks regularly. And I have a very large investment in logos, but I’m still learning how to use it. Learning very slowly, I might add.
Another triple user here.
Each of the three packages has its strengths and makes for a good toolkit :-)
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Dual user. However, I have been progressing since Accordance v14 release and the Logos v10 release towards 100% Logos. I have owned Logos since v1.x but for my needs v10 made logos refreshingly usable.
Went without Accordance on my machine for 4 months and missed little of it. Version 14 will not install the library properly. I tried installing v13 (it worked) and then installed v14 over it. It's been fine but as I said, it is not used much.
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Kristin said:
I keep hearing this phrase, but I'm kind of confused by it. What does "legacy" mean in this context?
It's hard to get a feel for how Logos works without having any books you'd actually use, and the legacy packages (which Chris described above) are on sale right now, so they're a budget-friendly way to get a decent starter library.
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Jonathan Huber said:
It's hard to get a feel for how Logos works without having any books you'd actually use
That's my problem too, and I wish I could just go ahead and buy a practical resource, such as a biblical language, just to experiment with the program. However, I keep hearing about major discounts, like 30%, on your first purchase. So I feel like I literally can't buy anything at all until I am 100% sure I would never buy a package.
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Kristin said:Jonathan Huber said:
It's hard to get a feel for how Logos works without having any books you'd actually use
That's my problem too, and I wish I could just go ahead and buy a practical resource, such as a biblical language, just to experiment with the program. However, I keep hearing about major discounts, like 30%, on your first purchase. So I feel like I literally can't buy anything at all until I am 100% sure I would never buy a package.
I hadn't seen anything about a 30% discount, but I just searched and found a reference to a 30% discount on a logos 10 upgrade for people who already own packages as a launch special when 10 was released. Not sure that's still available. If you're eligible for the academic program, you should apply for that. It's a nice discount. https://www.logos.com/academic-discount
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Well, just had to chime in with the other Accordance users. I own some Logos stuff, but find the UI so different. I’m still hoping Accordance will straighten up, just to save my investments. I’m determined to stick with it till she sinks. I’m also learning Logos UI in the mean time, and considering buying some resources.
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Jonathan Huber said:
I hadn't seen anything about a 30% discount, but I just searched and found a reference to a 30% discount on a logos 10 upgrade
Hi Jonathan,
To be honest, I don't remember where I had seen that 30% of your first order thing. It is possible I misread it and had seen the upgrade discount, I frankly don't know.
However, something else I have heard, which I want to check... I have heard that if you buy a resource, then you buy a package and that resource is in the package, the price of the book you own is deducted from the total price of the package. You thus don't need to worry abut buying resources before packages. Is this correct? Thank you also for the academic link. Rick also mentioned that to me.
Shane Rice said:the UI so different. I’m still hoping Accordance will straighten up, just to save my investments. I’m determined to stick with it till she sinks. I’m also learning Logos UI in the mean time, and considering buying some resources.
Those are my thoughts as well.
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Kristin said:
However, something else I have heard, which I want to check... I have heard that if you buy a resource, then you buy a package and that resource is in the package, the price of the book you own is deducted from the total price of the package. You thus don't need to worry abut buying resources before packages. Is this correct? Thank you also for the academic link. Rick also mentioned that to me.
It’s true to a point. Logos uses what they call Dynamic Pricing which adjusts the price of packages to account for things you already own. It’s not an equal deduction (eg if you buy a $10 book, the package doesnt drop by $10; it drops a bit less since there’s some scaling when things are bundled), but yes you do get a discount. System seems to work pretty well. I was deciding between two legacy bundles, and the price of the second dropped after I got the first since there was some overlap (so I ended up getting both!)
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Kristin said:
,
To be honest, I don't remember where I had seen that 30% of your first order thing. It is possible I misread it and had seen the upgrade discount, I frankly don't know.
To be sure, you might call CS. But I 'think' that was when BW was dieing ... at the time I took advantage of the Accordance offer (better).
But if I were in your shoes, I'd get maybe the Logos 10 Academic Fundementals and give it a test run. Logos is true to their 30-day refund. They don't question, etc. But the package has a decent test base to see how Bible Word Study (BWS) works (eg moving into Philo greek as well as NA28 etc) plus the interlinears and how they work. And the various tools. Also, the engine comes with the great moving parts ... Cited By, MultiBook, the excellent (but trying) search engine, etc. It'll give you a good test case for your work.
We all have opinions (!), but for original languages, Logos's advantage is the big library. I very much love, at bottom of BWS's, the supplied searches of my OL library ... I'm truly humbled by the access.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Jonathan Huber said:
It’s true to a point. Logos uses what they call Dynamic Pricing which adjusts the price of packages to account for things you already own. It’s not an equal deduction (eg if you buy a $10 book, the package doesnt drop by $10...
Hi Jonathan,
Oh, ok. Thank you for clarifying this.
DMB said:But if I were in your shoes, I'd get maybe the Logos 10 Academic Fundementals and give it a test run. Logos is true to their 30-day refund. They don't question, etc. But the package has a decent test base...
Hi DMB,
Thank you for the Academic Fundementals idea. I appreciate it. I think you are now the third or maybe 4th person who has recommended that I look into one of the "Academic" packages, and that is really great to hear that they have a 30-day refund. I know enough about Logos that I don't really expect I would return something (I never returned anything to Accordance either), but when dealing with such expensive packages it for sure eases my mind, so thank you for letting me know.
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DMB said:
We all have opinions (!), but for original languages, Logos's advantage is the big library. I very much love, at bottom of BWS's, the supplied searches of my OL library ... I'm truly humbled by the access.
The big library is breath taking. When in history have we had this mass of materials available to the common person with powerful technology? I feel so privileged. After I am done exegeting a section of scripture, I love looking down through the ages to see how the church has translated and applied that scripture. I recently bought into all the Church Fathers resources and will continue add resources that build out the picture in other eras.
The other thing that a large library brings is the widest and most up to date selection of journals. Who can have too many journals? I hope Logos continues to work on this with a goal to bring us the latest scholarship whenever possible.
Last, I stopped buying paper books or Kindle whenever I can avoid it. To have my home ‘seminary‘ library accessible at the click of a mouse, wherever I am in the world, is invaluable in my studies.
The big deal to make this library work is to aggressively use layouts, be willing to dynamically open and close resources in my workflows, use collections and tag, tag, tag. I know Factbook has its critics, but more than once it has turned up something I did not know. Smart Search is also a tool which I believe is only going to mature more and more.
This is a completely different approach than how I use Accordance where I tend to be much more static on a carefully selected set of resources. I am finding though, particularly with the disastrous release of Accordance 14 nearly to years ago and the unfulfilled promises since then to put it right, I am using it less and less. Logos is very capable at textual studies. Also, what they market as ‘clutter’ is in some cases resources that I am finding extremely useful as the power of Logos to deal with large libraries continues to grow.
While I am sad about the state of Accordance and hope they don’t crash like so many others have, I am truly excited about what Logos 11 might bring us. I think it is a very good thing that Logos has returned to its primary product and mission, alongside adding additional cash flow so that we can see all the services and platforms develop. It is an exciting time for computer assisted Bible Study!
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
The other thing that a large library brings is the widest and most up to date selection of journals. Who can have too many journals? I hope Logos continues to work on this with a goal to bring us the latest scholarship whenever possible.
Hi Donovan,
I rarely buy paper books as well, but I think I see it as more unfortunate as you do. I agree 100% with you about the advantages of electronic books. However, after investing in BibleWorks, then that dying and needing to move to Accordance, and investing in Accordance, and then now looking at Logos, I find the idea of potentially buying the same books for a third time sort of draining, to be frank. Unfortunately it just isn't practical to invest entirely in paper books in this era, for many reasons, including what you mentioned.Donovan R. Palmer said:The big deal to make this library work is to aggressively use layouts, be willing to dynamically open and close resources in my workflows, use collections and tag, tag, tag. I know Factbook has its critics, but more than once it has turned up something I did not know.
Do you mind clarifying what you mean by "tag"? I often find random words like this where I just don't know what it means. I had even gone on YouTube looking for basic tutorials, but nothing seems to really address fundamentals about Logos terminology. The "Factbook" is another example. I have sort of gathered that it is just a quick summary of a word based on your personal resources. Why are some people critical of this?
Donovan R. Palmer said:Also, what they market as ‘clutter’ is in some cases resources that I am finding extremely usefulWhat are you referring to as "clutter" in this situation?
I hope those aren't too many questions.
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Kristin said:Jonathan Huber said:
It's hard to get a feel for how Logos works without having any books you'd actually use
That's my problem too, and I wish I could just go ahead and buy a practical resource, such as a biblical language, just to experiment with the program. However, I keep hearing about major discounts, like 30%, on your first purchase. So I feel like I literally can't buy anything at all until I am 100% sure I would never buy a package.
Apart from the Academic 30%, there will be discounts on Logos 10 packages near Fall, in anticipation of the new subscription "official" release (probably higher than 25%). So take advantage of Academic discounts if that appeals, and then wait if you value ownership.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Kristin said:
Do you mind clarifying what you mean by "tag"? I often find random words like this where I just don't know what it means
Donovan is referring to My Tag's which you will see as a heading in Library (in Details view). Read this wiki article for a better idea.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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