a question from an Accordance User
Comments
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Kristin said:
if I bought anything, even if I bought one book, would it unlock (or more accurately, show), all the features?
No, Logos is very different from Accordance when it comes to features. With Accordance, even if you bought the cheapest package they offer, you'd get all the features. With Logos, most of the features are extra. In fact, in October, Logos will make most of the features available through a subscription service. You'll always own the books you buy in Logos, but what you can do with them changes pretty drastically based on the features you have.
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Uncoupling features (subscription) from books (own) makes a lot of sense to me In terms of supporting ongoing development.
Kristin- if you look at logos.com/features, each is marked to indicate which current package level it’s included with.
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Kristin said:
if I bought anything, even if I bought one book, would it unlock (or more accurately, show), all the features? I am thinking not, as I keep hearing about gradients in features, which are based on silver, bronze, etc. I think.
Purchasing resources does not automatically add any additional features to your account. At the moment features are bundled with resources in the Logos 10 library packages. This will change in the Fall, when Logos moves to subscription for features. Features can also be purchased independently from the Logos 10 library packages by purchasing a feature package. All products come with a 30-day money back guarantee. Thus, you could purchase the full feature set to try Logos for 30 days and return within the return window to get the entire balance returned to your account. I would agree that with the free version it is not possible to get an accurate impression of what is possible with Logos. It is nice that Logos does offer a free version. I believe that the reading and basic study of the Bible should be free of charge, and the free version makes this possible. However, it is understandable that in order to finance more advanced features, payment is required.
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Yes, my response probably came out sounding more negative than I intended it too. There are also some features you have to pay for in Accordance (cross-highlighting in the LXX requires the MT/LXX database, for example). Accordance used to release updates with amazing new features every few months. Now they can't even deliver features they promised two years ago. Meanwhile, Logos has exponentially more features than Accordance, with more being added all the time. Frankly, I think Logos' model is more sustainable over time.Jonathan Huber said:Uncoupling features (subscription) from books (own) makes a lot of sense to me In terms of supporting ongoing development.
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Mark Allison said:
No, Logos is very different from Accordance when it comes to features. With Accordance, even if you bought the cheapest package they offer, you'd get all the features. With Logos, most of the features are extra.
To be honest, part of why I have found the "features" so confusing, is in part because some of the features seem like just features, and some seem like basic functionality (like adding a parallel like your screenshot above, which also got flagged for moderation because I accidentally clicked "post" twice). The other reason I find it confusing is because I have yet to find a pure list of features. They seem to be viewable when comparing packages, but then when you click "compare features" one of the "features" is a random Bible, which seems like a resource. Then also, one of subsets is "features." So are the "features" everything under "compare features" or only under the subset of "features"? It is just confusing. From what I can gather though, it seems like it can get pretty expensive to build a Logos program (resources, features, whatever), unless someone goes about it carefully.
Mark Allison said:In fact, in October, Logos will make most of the features available through a subscription service
That's disturbing. If someone already owned that feature, they will still own it, correct? I would hope it is only new people who would have to do this subscription stuff. (I hate subscriptions and would likely prevent me from investing in Logos, to be frank). Is there a list of the features which will be going "subscription only"?
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Mark Allison said:
Frankly, I think Logos' model is more sustainable over time.
Yep, agreed. You didn't sound negative; I was just chiming in. It's a different model than Accordance, but that doesn't mean it's bad. The sustainability of the platform (in contrast to... others) is one of the reasons I'm here.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
At the moment features are bundled with resources in the Logos 10 library packages. This will change in the Fall, when Logos moves to subscription for features. Features can also be purchased independently from the Logos 10 library packages by purchasing a feature package.
Hi Aaron,
If I am understanding correctly, v.10 comes with features not on a subscription, but with v.11, features are on a subscription. Thus, people who have v.10 don't need to pay a subscription, but they will start needing to if they upgrade to v.11. Is this correct? Likewise, can you buy v.10 with the features not on a subscription even after v.11 comes out?
Aaron Hamilton said:All products come with a 30-day money back guarantee. Thus, you could purchase the full feature set to try Logos for 30 days and return within the return window to get the entire balance returned to your account. I would agree that with the free version it is not possible to get an accurate impression of what is possible with Logos.
That is a good idea. To do that, that would be the "Academic Silver" to get all the features. Is that correct? (Since I know my package family is "Academic" already).
Aaron Hamilton said:It is nice that Logos does offer a free version. I believe that the reading and basic study of the Bible should be free of charge, and the free version makes this possible.
I agree completely.
I have really appreciated how much Logos gives for free. It is not sufficient for anything on an academic level, but for sure helpful for someone just wanting to study the Bible.0 -
Jonathan Huber said:
Kristin- if you look at logos.com/features, each is marked to indicate which current package level it’s included with.
Hi Jonathan,
Thank you for the link! That is helpful. This is a really ignorant question, but on t hat page it lists little squares to represent each level, but the square colors aren't listed. Is there a color key somewhere I am missing?
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Kristin said:
Is there a list of the features which will be going "subscription only"?
New ones. If you own the full feature set from v10, you keep them all. Switching to a subscription model for feature development is a way to support ongoing software development. It's a great move. Trying to cut costs is what got Accordance into the mess they're in. Good software is worth paying for.
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Kristin said:
on that page it lists little squares to represent each level, but the square colors aren't listed
Same colors as the packages. They go in order of increasing cost from left to right: green is starter, orange is bronze, gray is silver, gold is gold. Gold level includes the full feature set, so everything else to the right of that has the same.
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Jonathan Huber said:
Same colors as the packages. They go in order of increasing cost from left to right: green is starter, orange is bronze, gray is silver, gold is gold. Gold level includes the full feature set, so everything else to the right of that has the same.
Thank you! Wow, if full features start only with Gold, I think I would need to actually check and see what I need or don't, as Gold is pretty expensive, to be frank. Also, I might not need much of it, as my needs are academic, and I noticed a lot of the features seem to be more sermon building type resources. Anyway, thank you for clarifying this! [:)]
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Kristin said:
If I am understanding correctly, v.10 comes with features not on a subscription, but with v.11, features are on a subscription. Thus, people who have v.10 don't need to pay a subscription, but they will start needing to if they upgrade to v.11. Is this correct? Likewise, can you buy v.10 with the features not on a subscription even after v.11 comes out?
In my opinion, Logos is doing a fine job navigating the transition from purchased packages to subscription. Most problematic issues that would quickly come to mind have likely already been addressed by the management team. Your comments on the subscription are correct. Owners of v. 10 will continue to own those features indefinitely. If/when they desire newly released features (post v.10), they will have to subscribe. Logos management has offered a (in my view) very generous discounted subscription path for customers who already own the full feature set. They have also said that they would make an announcement long before the sale of the full feature set would be discontinued. Thus, yes, it will continue to be offered for sale in the Fall (it is safe to assume that at some point in the future it will no longer be offered).
This is the website where you will be able to purchase an academic package: Academic Packages. You will need to purchase Logos 10 Academic Premium to have access to the full feature set.
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You can also purchase just features by seeing Feature upgrades here: https://www.logos.com/feature-upgrades. That is my plan. I'm not sure if it is better to do it before the v11 release, or if it will even be available after v11 release.
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Kristin said:
Gold is pretty expensive, to be frank
Keep in mind that the full feature set includes all of the features that have ever been developed by Logos (this is a simplified statement, as some features have been modified/discontinued over the years). For those who already own many features, incremental upgrades are understandably much cheaper, as you never pay for the same feature twice. It may be helpful to point out that Logos enables one to pay in increments (up to 24 months). This is a good option for larger purchases, and the additional fees are quite fair.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
eep in mind that the full feature set includes all of the features that have ever been developed by Logos (this is a simplified statement, as some features have been modified/discontinued over the years). For those who already own many features, incremental upgrades are understandably much cheaper, as you never pay for the same feature twice.
Hi Aaron and Shane,
Thank you both for the clarification, and I see now "full feature" is the key word I need. I have found this whole process pretty confusing, but I think part of what has contributed to it is that the "Academic" packages aren't color coded, that seems to be for the "Standard." So while the "Standard" has Silver, Bronze, Gold, etc, the "Academic" uses the words Standard, Premium and Professional. Apparently "Premium" is the same as "Gold" as that is where the "full features" start.
There is no way that I would get the "Academic Standard" as it doesn't have enough language stuff, and so I need to decide between "Premium" and "Professional," both of which have "full features" so the feature issue is not a problem anymore. Correct?
Something I am finding confusing, when comparing "Premium" and "Professional", although Premium is cheeper, under "Original language exegesis" the cheeper "Premium" has "+135 texts and translations" while the expensive Professional doesn't. However, the UBS5 with Critical Apparatus is ONLY with the Professional and not Premium, which I need.
So it seems like Premium has stuff Professional doesn't, and visa versa, so I just need to decide which set has more of what I need, which is likely Professional. Correct?
I am sorry this hasn't been sort of rambly, it has been confusing to sort out.0 -
Kristin said:
So it seems like Premium has stuff Professional doesn't, and visa versa, so I just need to decide which set has more of what I need, which is likely Professional. Correct?
https://www.logos.com/compare/libraries/Academic
Btw, the Pro level includes BDAG, premium doesn't. I plan to pick up the pro bundle during pre-11-release sales.
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Jonathan Huber said:
Btw, the Pro level includes BDAG, premium doesn't.
Wow! Thanks for noticing that, I guess that answers that. I think it is also why I have found Logos sort of confusing, as certain "basic" resources are only available in an ultra advanced package.
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Kristin said:
So it seems like Premium has stuff Professional doesn't, and visa versa, so I just need to decide which set has more of what I need, which is likely Professional. Correct?
Take note that this principle applies to all library packages sold on the Logos website: More expensive packages of the same type include ALL of the content from cheaper packages as well as additional content. In this specific case, Professional will include everything from Premium as well as the additional content listed.
Most users do not purchase everything they want all at once. It is normal to purchase an affordable package immediately while keeping more expensive packages on your wishlist and purchasing them at some point in the future (perhaps during a sale). These "expensive" packages will drop in price with every upgrade you purchase, making them more affordable. There are gold library packages I could buy today for less than $10 if I wanted the resources in them that I don't own yet. Everything seems quite expensive initially, but as you acquire the library and features that meet your needs, over time the prices become more affordable. This process will look a bit different in the Fall after the subscription rolls out.
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Kristin, you might want to give sales a call and see what they can do for you (no connection with sales). It might be of their interest since you are purchasing as an Accordance user. In other words, you might get a better pricing than what is on the website. No cost to call other than your time.
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Frank Jones said:
Kristin, you might want to give sales a call and see what they can do for you (no connection with sales). It might be of their interest since you are purchasing as an Accordance user. In other words, you might get a better pricing than what is on the website. No cost to call other than your time.
Thank you very much, Frank! I gave sales a call, and you are correct that they are able to give me a discount. The call ended with him giving me his number and I am going to call him back when I have things sorted out.
So BDAG is in the Professional, but is HALOT? It almost seems like it isn't.
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Kristin said:
So BDAG is in the Professional, but is HALOT? It almost seems like it isn't.
No, HALOT isnt in there, though DCH is.
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They package BDAG and HALOT together decently. Often if you get your Pro package, the B/H combo will be cheaper than HALOT alone.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I cannot do without HALOT. There is a combo pricing.
https://www.logos.com/product/5228/bdag-halot-bundle
Did you ask sales? Maybe once you decide on a package, they could "throw it in." [:D]
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Frank Jones said:
Did you ask sales? Maybe once you decide on a package, they could "throw it in."
Jonathan, DMB, and Frank, thank you for your help, and I will ask sales about including it, as I need HALOT.
I also need JPS stuff, the professional seems to have only the Haggadah and Haftarot from it, so I will talk about him about that.
So I need to talk to him about HALOT and JPS. For those of you who know me, am I missing anything? I feel like the professional seems to include everything else (unless I'm overlooking something).0 -
You can always add resources later if a need comes up, but pro looks like a great bundle to me too. And of course you’ll still have your Accordance library for now, so there’s no rush to immediately duplicate everything.
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Jonathan Huber said:
You can always add resources later if a need comes up, but pro looks like a great bundle to me too. And of course you’ll still have your Accordance library for now, so there’s no rush to immediately duplicate everything
Hi Jonathan,
That may be true. I guess my thought is that since I get this major discount as a new user, that it would be financially advantageous to get stuff I would likely need now. However, if there is nothing else obvious, I will probably call him tomorrow to finalize this.
Btw, regarding the subscription with v.11, that is apparently not final. He told me that there is a "possibility" that it might go to that, but it is also possible that they won't.
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Kristin said:
... since I get this major discount as a new user, that it would be financially advantageous to get stuff I would likely need now. However, if there is nothing else obvious, I will probably call him tomorrow to finalize this.
Well, hopefully he's offering 20% plus (what a package sale would be). And buying the features now will likely reduce your subscription (if you do subscribe later).
Not to intrude on what direction you're wanting, but at least for me, I'd add the Mishnah (they have the Talmud in Pro), I think you're mainly on the hebrew/aramaic side, but on syriac there little glossing in Logos, for the OT (Peshitta in Pro).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Kristin said:
Btw, regarding the subscription with v.11, that is apparently not final. He told me that there is a "possibility" that it might go to that, but it is also possible that they won't.
If you/he mean/s to communicate that there is a possibility that the next version of Logos will NOT be offered as a subscription, then I can assure you, that is incorrect. A subscription is coming, they have been perfectly clear, and we will see the details of it later this year (October is my guess).
I am pleased you found a package that interests you and were offered a good discount. Enjoy!
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Kristin said:Dave Hooton said:
Apart from the Academic 30%, there will be discounts on Logos 10 packages near Fall, in anticipation of the new subscription "official" release (probably higher than 25%). So take advantage of Academic discounts if that appeals, and then wait if you value ownership.
Do you mind clarifying the "value ownership" comment? It sounds like if you buy it in the fall, the official release is just a subscription (like renting the program) and not actually owning it. Then if you wait a certain amount of time you can buy it without a subscription, but you forfeit the discount?
I'm sure that previous posts would have answered this, but
- subscription will be the only way to acquire new features after the Fall, but
- you will rent them and not own them (call it Logos 11 for convenience)
- Fall will be your last opportunity to own the Logos 10 Full Feature set.
- So, if you value ownership you can continue to run Logos without a subscription and still receive updates to the software
- There will be an opportunity to purchase offline Logos 11 features but you must subscribe for 2 years!
- If you purchase Logos 10 Full Features you will be eligible for a good discount on a subscription.
- The Early Access page will allow you to subscribe now, with the discount, BUT
- I recommend you purchase the L10 Full Feature Set with a healthy discount:
- put Academic Features and L10 Full Feature set into your cart and see how much the price changes when you remove Academic!
- the 30% Academic discount will influence the price as it has nearly all the Full Features.
- The L10 Full Feature set will be cheaper near Fall, so you will save on the above price if you wait.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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DMB said:
hopefully he's offering 20% plus (what a package sale would be). And buying the features now will likely reduce your subscription (if you do subscribe later)
Ya, he is, thank you for letting me know what I should be looking for. I really appreciate it!
DMB said:Not to intrude on what direction you're wanting, but at least for me, I'd add the Mishnah (they have the Talmud in Pro), I think you're mainly on the hebrew/aramaic side, but on syriac there little glossing in Logos, for the OT (Peshitta in Pro).
I don't find that intrusive at all, no worries.
I'm not Jewish, but I am very interested in the Jewish perspective, as I think that a lot of the historical and cultural context of the OT can really only be understood though understanding the Jewish understanding. Do you have a link of the resources you are referring to that you could paste here?
(Also, are you still on Accordance? If so, send me a message there. I can't figure out how to message on this forum).
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Aaron Hamilton said:
f you/he mean/s to communicate that there is a possibility that the next version of Logos will NOT be offered as a subscription, then I can assure you, that is incorrect. A subscription is coming, they have been perfectly clear, and we will see the details of it later this year (October is my guess).
Hi Aaron, that is really surprising! Ya, the guy was really dogmatic that there was a "possibility" of a subscription.
Aaron Hamilton said:I am pleased you found a package that interests you and were offered a good discount. Enjoy!
Thank you!
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Dave Hooton said:
Fall will be your last opportunity to own the Logos 10 Full Feature set.
Hi Dave,
Thank you for this detailed explanation. That was helpful. Yes, I value ownership and despise subscriptions. So I am very grateful that I started looking into Logos now, as if I waited until next year it would have been too late.
Thank you again.
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Kristin said:
the guy was really dogmatic that there was a "possibility" of a subscription.
Customer service is very helpful. I have always had a positive experience whenever I needed help. But many customer service reps are not well informed on many issues. This is fine, as they always seem able to help with the problem at hand.
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Kristin said:
Do you have a link of the resources you are referring to that you could paste here?
Mishnah: Both your Pro/Talmud and the Mishnah (below) are tagged relative to the Bible, so you can link both to a Bible being studied, using a CitedBy tool (what I do).
https://www.logos.com/product/297/the-mishnah-a-new-translation
I'm just reflecting me, on possibles, but I also use CAL (your Pro/Targums) and Aramaic Bible (targums english w/notes). The latter is cheaper to pick up, in a package sale later. My comment on the Peshitta (in your Pro) is that if you do consult the Leiden (your Pro), you'll have to use your Accordance for glosses and morphs (Logos has neither, for the OT, so not to be surprised).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Hi Aaron,
Thanks for letting me know, and I am glad to hear sales is typically helpful.
The guy I spoke with was.
Btw, regarding him giving me his direct line, do you know if sales works on commission?
DMB,Thank you for the link and letting me know all that.
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Kristin said:
Btw, regarding him giving me his direct line, do you know if sales works on commission?
I do not know whether sales works on commission, but I do know that being given a direct line for someone from Logos is not an unusual practice. If you enjoy working with him, I see no harm in continuing to use that line in the future.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
I do not know whether sales works on commission, but I do know that being given a direct line for someone from Logos is not an unusual practice. If you enjoy working with him, I see no harm in continuing to use that line in the future.
Thank you for letting me know. He was was friendly, and what I honestly appreciated most was his patience with my sort of ignorant questions as someone who knows nothing of the software. So I will for sure call him again to finalize the sale, just in case they do work on commission.
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Kristin said:
I value ownership and despise subscriptions.
You are coming on-board at the exact time that Logos is moving to all subscription. I am like you, I view the software in the traditional way. You buy it, you own it. You can run it forever. If there are updates, you can choose to purchase them, or not. Just like the 70% of Windows users are still on 10 and refusing to move to Windows 11 after almost 3 years. They do not want the "updates".
I am taking steps to ensure that I can still install Logos 10 in the future, just in case that they destroy it with AI junk that I don't want or need. Many Logos features are already dependent upon an internet connection, as they have been sticking this stuff in there with no real announcement (that I am aware of) that the company was moving a different direction into an internet dependent client/server type architecture. My belief is that they should have stuck internet dependent and AI stuff into the web app, not the desktop program. People buy the desktop program because they want an offline program to utilize in the use of their resources. I would never choose to pay a monthly fee to use AI summary features.
I am also concerned that the big focus will be on new AI and web-dependent features, while built-in features take a back seat.
Having said all that, I probably will do the subscription, because they are giving Logos 10 owners a big discount on it at first. I do not expect to get much out of it, as I really still have a lot to learn just on using the existing features of the desktop program. I can afford $10/month, and if it does not seem to be worth it for me, I will just cancel. With the next release of MacOS, AI via ChatGPT will be FREE. (It is already free if you are on Apple Silicon).
If I couldn't write my own sermon, I would just get a sermon archive and use one of the millions of them freely available. There are excellent sermons in my library that I have never even looked at. Why would I need a computer to write a sermon for me?
I am leaving my mind open for Logos to be able to show me that AI is better than traditional methods. We will see what happens [H]
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John said:
I view the software in the traditional way. You buy it, you own it. You can run it forever.
And look how well that model has worked for Bible Software companies. I'd rather pay a few dollars a month for a subscription than pay thousands of dollars for books I can no longer use.
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And eventually, the software and OS don't work together. At least in my case, it seems that a two year sub is a little less than what I chose to pray every two years for a Logos upgrade on the old system. I am also not interested in AI for Bible Study. And, as one person mentioned, AI will eventually have some form of integration into the Apple Silicon OS. Not everyone should have an executive secretary telling them what to do. [^o)]
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Mark Allison said:
And look how well that model has worked for Bible Software companies. I'd rather pay a few dollars a month for a subscription than pay thousands of dollars for books I can no longer use.
Logos is still the same model. They are still selling you the resources as they always have. The only difference is that the promise made long ago that the software would always be free first became a tiered system of paying extra for “datasets” and features, and now is evolving into a rental situation.
Before they are finished I predict that they will be renting out the resources too. They are already including hundreds of books as a package included in the subscriptions.
Bible software companies used to do just fine, and so did Christian bookstores. The bookstores are gone now for similar reasons as the software.
Christian bookstores had a shrinking market and online competition. Amazon has run almost all of the traditional bookstores out of business. Where I live, Barnes & Noble is the only one left. And it is shrinking in selection.
Bible software also has a shrinking market, combined with more and better choices at the entry level which are FREE.
Bibleworks still had a market of loyal users when it was shut down. The owner just decided to retire and not pass it on. One of the reasons he cited was a shrinking pool of seminary students who had interest in original languages. I also believe he was not charging enough money to support the development to adapt to newer platforms.
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John said:
Bible software companies used to do just fine,
Yes, the glory days of "big" Bible software are probably over, for many of the reasons you've stated. Which is exactly why companies like Logos need to stay ahead of a changing market. Kudos to them; they're the only Bible software company seemingly able to do that. Accordance is struggling, and it appears that OliveTree is in the same situation. Accordance doesn't have the internal resources to shift to a subscription model (heck, they don't even have the resources to update their software in a timely manner) even though I'm sure their management have a desire to do so.
With Logos, you'll always own the books you've already purchased, and—worse case scenario—you'll always be able to read them on all your devices and perform basic searches even without a subscription. Which still makes books in Logos a better value than paper books.0 -
I totally understand why Logos is going subscription. Owning Logos right now where you can take advantage of the fall back license, it seems the best of both worlds. If anyone thinks they might ever want to buy Logos, this might be the time to jump in to leverage the benefits of the old and new models regarding features.
With this said, Logos will need to compete harder than ever for our business in this new model. With free platforms nipping away at this niche business, they will need to demonstrate value month after month. IT NEEDS TO BE EXCITING AGAIN. The good news for us as users is that we don't have to wait two years to see what's next. The challenge for them will be to keep up this kind of development. Logos Now was a fail, so I can see why Logos has been consolidating their business to focus on their core product. They need to innovate and deliver, all the time. Not just software wise, but in resources as well.
As far as Accordance goes, this is why a number of users started expressing deep alarm. If Accordance cannot deliver the new features of version 14 launched nearly two years ago, how is it going to survive? Add to the list, a web app that has been promised for some time, mobile apps that have seen little real development for a few years, and resources like journals that desperately need updated. The major component that they are working to deliver, syncing, is really a feature that has been around in many other products for 10 - 20 years. (by the way, once you get syncing right, the note taking solution needs a complete overhaul, requiring yet more investment and time). Anyhow, concerns, sometimes passionate because of the love and loyalty to Accordance, resulted in the forum being organised in a way to suppress feedback, and in more extreme cases, removed threads and even banned users. (You can imagine how this has impacted the community crowd supported culture of the product) I hope they can make it, but I expressed this hopeful sentiment nearly two years ago and here we are as time marches on. Two years in the tech industry is an eternity.
I don't know about the situation in Olive Tree, but I can imagine they feel the pressure of the free market as well, maybe more so. They are not a full blown academic solution, so as a high quality middle of the road platform, can they create enough value and cash flow to keep users engaged and acquire new ones?
Obviously, we all have the danger of being arm chair generals when it comes to the Bible software market, but from what I can tell, Logos has the current best chance of being a premium product for the foreseeable future. There are many things that I like about Accordance and I think the peer to peer competition is very healthy, but right now I think the Bible software market is competing against staying in business more than anything. Rough handling users and not mastering transparent communication, only seems to compound the problem. This is the state of the market: Adapt or die. Interesting times!
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
Obviously, we all have the danger of being arm chair generals when it comes to the Bible software market, but from what I can tell, Logos has the current best chance of being a premium product for the foreseeable future. There are many things that I like about Accordance and I think the peer to peer competition is very healthy, but right now I think the Bible software market is competing against staying in business more than anything. Rough handling users and not mastering transparent communication, only seems to compound the problem. This is the state of the market: Adapt or die. Interesting times!
100%
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Agree with Donovan on Logos having the best chance.
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Mark Allison said:John said:
I view the software in the traditional way. You buy it, you own it. You can run it forever.
And look how well that model has worked for Bible Software companies. I'd rather pay a few dollars a month for a subscription than pay thousands of dollars for books I can no longer use.
100%
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John said:
I am taking steps to ensure that I can still install Logos 10 in the future, just in case that they destroy it with AI junk that I don't want or need.
That is a good idea. I hate AI in Bible software (or anything biblical). I am not a fan of it in general either. It has shown itself to be biased, prone to error, and can even provide advice which is dangerous (like it's "glue on pizza" recommendation it had relatively recently). So the way the world is taking it and running with it as if it is the greatest thing since sliced bread is frankly confusing (and deeply concerning).
John said:Many Logos features are already dependent upon an internet connection, as they have been sticking this stuff in there with no real announcement
That's concerning. Connecting to the server is not only a potential privacy issue, but could even be dangerous in certain countries. So it is imperative that I can run the software offline. I had already tried this last week and it ran fine, but given this thread, I am worried if fundamental functions will turn off if there isn't an internet connection.
John said:If I couldn't write my own sermon, I would just get a sermon archive and use one of the millions of them freely available. There are excellent sermons in my library that I have never even looked at. Why would I need a computer to write a sermon for me?
To be honest, I have always found the concept of AI having anything to do with sermons sort of paradoxical. I mean, the whole concept is built on using that doesn't even have breath to write a sermon. It just sounds off, even on the surface.
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
With this said, Logos will need to compete harder than ever for our business in this new model. With free platforms nipping away at this niche business, they will need to demonstrate value month after month. IT NEEDS TO BE EXCITING AGAIN.
Smiling, but I doubt that's in the cards. Logos used to exciting ... big unbelievable sales. Community pricing that actually delivered. Prepubs that got shipped. And a CEO that pondered choices, on the forum, during flights home.
People chat about the software, but the money's in the books. And the owner needs his return on investment. Few people use the features usually (this one or that one). And eventually ask about value. That was the issue on Now ... they couldn't deliver excitement. This fall, yes, excitement. Later, I'd guess 'subscriptions' will be a student market. Two years and collect the fallback.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Kristin said:
That's concerning. Connecting to the server is not only a potential privacy issue, but could even be dangerous in certain countries. So it is imperative that I can run the software offline. I had already tried this last week and it ran fine, but given this thread, I am worried if fundamental functions will turn off if there isn't an internet connection.
For most of my Logosian years (I guess, maybe almost 20), I've operated offline (Libronix>Logos). For several years, I never linked to the server. But, in recent years, new features, both desktop and mobile, are more and more, server-based. In my daily toil and trouble, I don't see much problem, because I don't want/use those recent features.
So, given your preferences, and your Pro, I think you could easily go years offline (if needed).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Frank Jones said:
AI will eventually have some form of integration into the Apple Silicon OS.
I know, that is super creepy. I watched the keynote and my understanding is that it is Siri on steroids. So currently, Apple lets you completely disable Siri (which I do of course). So I am hoping it will be the same with the AI junk, that I can disable it in settings. We will see.
Mark Allison said:With Logos, you'll always own the books you've already purchased, and—worse case scenario—you'll always be able to read them on all your devices and perform basic searches even without a subscription.
That's important and good to hear.
Mark Allison said:Which still makes books in Logos a better value than paper books.
Hopefully that is correct, and I am making a good financial decision. The idea of just getting a bunch of paper books actually did occur to me (since I hate this AI / subscription direction). But since the subscription is optional, it seems like the better option. I think.
Donovan R. Palmer said:Anyhow, concerns, sometimes passionate because of the love and loyalty to Accordance, resulted in the forum being organised in a way to suppress feedback, and in more extreme cases, removed threads and even banned users. (You can imagine how this has impacted the community crowd supported culture of the product)
This is unfortunately true. [:(]
DMB said:That was the issue on Now ... they couldn't deliver excitement.
This "Logos Now" thing has been mentioned a few times now. What was that?
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