Official: More details about the coming subscription launch
Comments
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Throughout the years, I have been extremely disgruntled with Logos, and EVERY TIME I've come to try and get a glimmer of hope, a spark to find my fire and enthusiasm for this very frustrating (to me) software, you have been here to encourage me.
I'm not sure if you know how much you have meant to me; I do hope I had thanked you previously; but, if not, allow me to now. And, yes, during the many years of frustration, I always appreciated your attempts to not coddle me, but rather, encourage me.
And, in case you are unaware, I just learned, within 10 minutes, how to successfully navigate the new Logos Early Access edition.
Maybe NOW, I can get over all the bitterness, feelings of deceit, and feeling ripped off (which I knew ONE day, once I "got it", I'd be thrilled, and can get to move forward. So, yes, thank you very much-- whether you realized it or not.MJ. Smith said:Frank Sauer said:]Being inferred Satanic was reported and nothing was done...
I would have reported it if I had seen it but I have been skipping most of the threads on subscriptions most of the time because my honest response to many of the posts would be inappropriate regardless of how politely they were framed.
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Please consider offering an Original Languages library at launch as well :-)
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Aaron Hamilton said:DMB said:
since Mark doesn't check your ownership until Oct 2027
I think this bit is the issue. I think after 24 months it will trigger an automatic issuance of the License. I don't think they only check in Oct.
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:We've also previously announced that Logos 10 owners will also be able to qualify for the Legacy Fallback License. This means that if you remain subscribed for 24 consecutive months, you'll be your features, even if you subsequently cancel your subscription. (A few features, especially those cloud-backed or AI-based, will be excluded from the Legacy Fallback License.) The legacy fallback license will be available in October 2026, so if you qualify before then because you're part of early access, you'll need to wait until October before you receive it. If you qualify after that, we'll give you the license as soon as you qualify.
I had to go back and find Marks actual post/words.
I think many people have missed what has been said and/or misconstrued his comments.
My take; The Oct 2026 date was mentioned as the FIRST issuance of a fallback license. That date happens to be 2 years after the OFFICIAL release of the Subscription model (not the early access date),
It was also stated elsewhere that those who subscribed early access wise, would get those "early" months counted toward their 24 month total (but the 1st OFFICIAL fallback license would not be issued until Oct '26).
In other places was it stated/assumed that the fallback license would only be issued each Oct starting in '26. This is incorrect.
In the section I quoted (and highlighted/emphasized) from Mark above explicitly states that after that 1st license is issued (in Oct 26) for those eligible for said license, that the fallback license would be issued AS SOON AS you qualify for it.
So NO, if you subscribe Jan '25 through Jan '27, you DO NOT have to wait until Oct '27 to get your Fallback. At least according to what Mark has clearly stated.
Aaron was correct in his response to DMB.
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I can't shake the feeling that there's been a certain manner offense taken at the idea of seminaries making and preserving a deep, long-term commitment to Logos...
But they're seminaries. They're teaching for the faith, and they have to.
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What about building libraries for other use cases, especially since the capacity to build larger libraries of our own, as it exists now, will soon be no more? That seems to make sense.
II'll save on the content I want to get today and tomorrow if I get a package now, as well, but in the immediate term, it seems getting a feature package while I have the chance is much more important.
I can't say I really think the feature sets in the subscriptions has been found by me to be necessary or sensible; I think I'd rather be supported to delve and to my own material and enjoy it than have combinations of it formulated for me; I'll save by not paying for features that would make me unhappy and uncomfortable just so I could have some content that would give me a little bit of help looking over my library. Honestly, it really seems like these AI features came from out of nowhere.
So what's going to be in the new denominational libraries?
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Roy said:Aaron Hamilton said:DMB said:
since Mark doesn't check your ownership until Oct 2027
I think this bit is the issue. I think after 24 months it will trigger an automatic issuance of the License. I don't think they only check in Oct.
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:We've also previously announced that Logos 10 owners will also be able to qualify for the Legacy Fallback License. This means that if you remain subscribed for 24 consecutive months, you'll be your features, even if you subsequently cancel your subscription. (A few features, especially those cloud-backed or AI-based, will be excluded from the Legacy Fallback License.) The legacy fallback license will be available in October 2026, so if you qualify before then because you're part of early access, you'll need to wait until October before you receive it. If you qualify after that, we'll give you the license as soon as you qualify.
I had to go back and find Marks actual post/words.
I think many people have missed what has been said and/or misconstrued his comments.
My take; The Oct 2026 date was mentioned as the FIRST issuance of a fallback license. That date happens to be 2 years after the OFFICIAL release of the Subscription model (not the early access date),
It was also stated elsewhere that those who subscribed early access wise, would get those "early" months counted toward their 24 month total (but the 1st OFFICIAL fallback license would not be issued until Oct '26).
In other place was it stated that fallback license would only be issued each Oct starting in '26.
And in the section I quoted (and highlighted/emphasized) from Mark above explicitly states that after that 1st license is issued (in Oct 26) for those eligible for said license, that the fallback license would be issued AS SOON AS you qualify for it.
So NO, if you subscribe Jan '25 through Jan '27, you DO NOT have to wait until Oct '27 to get your Fallback. At least according to what Mark has clearly stated.
Aaron was correct in his response to DMB.
These posts are what has led to the confusion:
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:1Cor10 31">Mark: What happens if I subscribe for 2 years from Jan 1, 2025 to Dec 31th, 2026? Does the Fallback license include only the features introduced over the 2 years that I subscribe? If so, you will need to be tracking for each customer what Feature set to be given as Fallback license, isn't it? Is that the plan?
I won't be possible for us to create different licenses for every person, so in that case, your LFL license will include all the features delivered up until October 2026, including those delivered before you became a subscriber, but not including those delivered in November and December.
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:Frank Sauer said:I appreciate the clarification on this - though I do wonder how it would not be possible to allow for "personal" licensure - that has been the standard back since the Libronix days buying modules and through L10 buying feature sets.... Every person had their own license starting on the date they purchased whatever module or set they chose....
What has changed in the Licensure system that would prevent the same?
We still operate a very similar license system. The problem is that we have three subscription tiers. Double it because of Verbum. Then multiply that by seven because that's how many languages we support. Maybe there are more subscription tiers in the future. Maybe some seminaries get custom subscription configurations for their students.
In other words, it's likely that there will already be 50 different legacy fallback license combinations we'd need to create just to support what I've described. If we personalized it for every user depending on their subscription length you could probably 10x that figure. Maybe more. And as a result, we couldn't do that manually, we'd have to automate it. That's the capability we don't have. And getting it would be a significant investment that would take time away from building and improving Bible study features.
I believe the part that leads to this is the Fallback being advertised as a user earning ownership after two years, but the ownership seems to be tied to October per Mark's comments here. The initial info didn't tie it to October, but to a user completing two years - these posts in which Mark clarified opened the door to the new confusion which now needs to be clarified - the second post I inserted appears to be tied to excessive investment needed for licenses to be handed out at each individual 2 year mark.
So Mark needs to give insight on whether the Fallback Licenses will be perpetually tied to October timeframes or if it is a one time incident - the second post again, makes it sound like a system limitation preventing some action.
Though it is possible that the confusion is tied more to what Features you will have in a Fallback License than the License itself.... The former may be limited to the October date not the earned license itself - I can see that being what was meant... As it seems there were two different discussions one about features earned then one about when the license went into effect.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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It doesn't make sense if it is; there's not an unconditional correlation between title and use case, and I'm likely to buy a library of a certain size because it has the most appropriate range of stuff I want to look at, not because I'm a pastor or a deacon or a lay leader, you get me?
I'm feeling like, if this really is about the priesthood of all believers, the drive of those with passion but without title should be recognized and supported.
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Regardless of whatever might happen, that's an awfully long time. You want to throw an investment that far ahead when things are liable to change so much, including your availability?
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Steven MacDonald said:
Please consider offering an Original Languages library at launch as well :-)
Yes! Yes! and Yes! [Y]
It has been a long time since Logos offered an Original Language Library publicly. I got one durning the Logos 4 days.
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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You're in luck
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:It's not 100% confirmed yet, but I think it is likely there will be:
- Standard track: Starter through Collectors
- "Lay leaders" track: Starter through Gold
- "Preachers" track: Bronze through Diamond
- "Original languages" track: Silver through Portfolio
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MJ. Smith said:
I have been skipping most of the threads on subscriptions most of the time because my honest response to many of the posts would be inappropriate regardless of how politely they were framed.
It's when I read posts like this that I wish we could just give a thumbs up to the poster[:D]
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👍
👁️ 👁️
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My first subscription payment was just made.
I subscribed a month ago.
I spent a lot in the last month
When will the 5% discounts start appearing?
When will my spending begin accumulating towards the end of year rebate?
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Good question, I have spent quite a bit this year so hoping the accumulated rebate begins with the calendar year. I am on the Max subscription (annual) and it would be nice to know when the 5% storewide discount will become available.
Overall, I have been pleased with the changes/updates in logos and the new hybrid subscription model.
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Thanks Mark.
Blessings in Christ.
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I think this is a good question that I hope Mark can help us with. I am also on the yearly Max subscription, yet there is no 5% storewide discount, free book or access to mobile ed course. Does that mean that early subscribers actually have the sunk cost of not enjoying these benefits? I didn't have much of a choice as I signed up for the trial previously, and asked for an extension as there were non-AI features that seemed to be available. But, I was told i can still refund the logos yearly subscription within 30 days.
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I was under the impression that early access was for features, and perks would be part of the official launch in the fall. Was something different communicated?
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Yasmin Stephen said:
I was under the impression that early access was for features, and perks would be part of the official launch in the fall.
That is my understanding also. I have not seen anything to contradict it.
👁️ 👁️
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1Cor10 31 said:
Thanks a ton, Mark, for your quick and clear response. I know there are so many moving parts for you all to consider...Does this mean that anyone who starts subscribing before Oct 2026 (be it 1 month, 2 months,...., or 24 months) will be given Fallback license as of Oct 2026 but only after we complete 24 months of successive subscription from the time we started?
That's correct.
1Cor10 31 said:A related question...When will the next Legacy Fallback License be available - the one after Oct 2026? Will it be Oct 2027 or will a legacy fallback be rolled out every month?
We won't be rolling out a legacy fallback every month. With three subscription tiers for both Logos and Verubm and many different languages, it's a significant amount of work to create the 50 or so different fallback licenses to ensure everyone gets what they should.
I'm sure we'll be able to say more in the future about what will happen to Legacy Fallback after October 2026.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
I imagine many users may be quite disappointed if they canceled in September after earning the Fallback license, only to find out that if they had held on one more month, they would have been given a more recent license.
We have plans to update the cancellation page to help users understand what they'd lose if they canceled their subscription. We're very likely to include an explanation of how much of the 5% credit they've built up, and how close they are to qualifying for fallback.
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Danny Maldonado said:
Bottom line question?
If I don’t subscribe, will my program become useless even after spending already significant $$ on Logos?
Other people have already answered this, but just to make it very clear.
No, your program will not become useless if you don't subscribe. You'll still be able to continue to use the features and books you have already paid for, and we'll continue to ship bug fixes and compatibility updates to all our users.
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Mark Allison said:
My understanding is that only subscription-based features will be included in the Fallback License. Thought I heard that stated in a webinar, but I could be wrong.
The Fallback License will also include features that are currently sold as part of Logos 10.
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Steven MacDonald said:
Please consider offering an Original Languages library at launch as well :-)
We won't be using the name "Original Languages," but there will be a library track aimed at people who love original languages.
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Antony Brennan said:Yasmin Stephen said:
I was under the impression that early access was for features, and perks would be part of the official launch in the fall.
That is my understanding also. I have not seen anything to contradict it.
That's correct.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
I'm sure we'll be able to say more in the future about what will happen to Legacy Fallback after October 2026.
I know this sounds pretty snarky, but 2026? Goodness, Mark. So much for me being wrong.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
I know this sounds pretty snarky, but 2026? Goodness, Mark. So much for me being wrong.
Misunderstanding? I don't think Mark was saying that in 2026 they would say more about the Fallback License. Rather, I think he was saying that in the future (soon) they will be able to say more about how frequently they will update the Fallback License, which will first be issued in Oct. 2026.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
Misunderstanding? I don't think Mark was saying that in 2026 they would say more about the Fallback License. Rather, I think he was saying that in the future (soon) they will be able to say more about how frequently they will update the Fallback License, which will first be issued in Oct. 2026.
I'm just illustrating how difficult it is, to follow the whole process ... bits and pieces here and there, poor sentence construction, etc. I try to imagine a corporate environment like that.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
I'm just illustrating how difficult it is, to follow the whole process
Few, I expect, would disagree with the statement that the process has been confusing and hard to follow/plan for. With that said, I am VERY grateful that I am not in Mark's shoes. I think he has doing an amazing job. I'm sure if he had all the info on day one, he would have passed it on. But with the slow trickle, it's a huge challenge. I think he has navigated it quite well all things considered.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
1Cor10 31">Thanks a ton, Mark, for your quick and clear response. I know there are so many moving parts for you all to consider...Does this mean that anyone who starts subscribing before Oct 2026 (be it 1 month, 2 months,...., or 24 months) will be given Fallback license as of Oct 2026 but only after we complete 24 months of successive subscription from the time we started?
That's correct.
Thank you, Mark.
I know that you’ve mentioned before that we could pay 2 years worth of subscription at one shot. So let’s say that I come to Sep 2026 and I see the features that have been introduced over the prior 2 years that will be included as part of the Legacy Fallback License. I could then pay 2 years worth of subscription at one shot and get the Legacy Fallback License immediately, am I right?
If so, can I interpret the subscription model as a hybrid model where I can either
(i) pay subscription/month to enjoy the features as they come out
or
(ii) wait for 2 years to see what will be included in the Legacy Fallback License and then pay 2 years worth of subscription at one shot to immediately get the Legacy Fallback License?
If the above is correct, so much hue and cry could have been saved if the implications of the policy change were articulated a little bit more clearly. Communication is always a 2-way street; it depends on the transmitter (Logos) and the receivers (customers), and it is quite possible that bad communication is entirely a bad receiver problem.
Frank Sauer should be jumping up and down after reading this!
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:1Cor10 31">A related question...When will the next Legacy Fallback License be available - the one after Oct 2026? Will it be Oct 2027 or will a legacy fallback be rolled out every month?
We won't be rolling out a legacy fallback every month. With three subscription tiers for both Logos and Verubm and many different languages, it's a significant amount of work to create the 50 or so different fallback licenses to ensure everyone gets what they should.
I'm sure we'll be able to say more in the future about what will happen to Legacy Fallback after October 2026.
Understood, Mark.
Humor me for a moment because I like thinking about (un)intended consequences of policy change.
Let’s say that you have Legacy Fallback License in Oct 1, 2026 and Oct 1, 2028. What happens if a person subscribes for 25 months from Sep 1, 2026 to Oct 30, 2028?
It seems that, as per your policy, the person would be eligible for
(i) Oct 2026 License (because the person would have subscribed for 24 months from Sep 1, 2026 to Aug 31, 2028)
and
(ii) Oct 2028 License (because the person would have subscribed for 24 months from Oct 1, 2026 to Sep 30, 2028).
I’m sure you don’t want that. How are you resolving the 24-month requirement?
Probably you’ve articulated your policy elsewhere and it may have been buried in one of the Forum posts. I’m sorry if you have to repeat.
Thanks
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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DMB said:Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
I'm sure we'll be able to say more in the future about what will happen to Legacy Fallback after October 2026.
I know this sounds pretty snarky, but 2026? Goodness, Mark. So much for me being wrong.
Does it help if I put it like this?:
I'm sure we'll be able to say more in the future...
...about what will happen to Legacy Fallback after October 2026.
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1Cor10 31 said:
(i) pay subscription/month to enjoy the features as they come out
or
(ii) wait for 2 years to see what will be included in the Legacy Fallback License and then pay 2 years worth of subscription at one shot to immediately get the Legacy Fallback License?
I think (i) is a better option, but certainly you can do option (ii) if you prefer. And yes, if you take either option, you've got a better deal than we've offered before, IMO.
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1Cor10 31 said:
Let’s say that you have Legacy Fallback License in Oct 1, 2026 and Oct 1, 2028.
Making firm plans of what will happen in four years' time is hard, especially during a time of transition. We've confirmed that the Legacy Fallback license will be issued from October 2026, but we haven't yet confirmed in detail what will happen after that date.
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I have Logos 10 Full Feature set, Logos 10 Portfolio (Deutsch) and Verbum 10 Full Feature set. Will there be a bundle offer? I am interested in Logos Max (early access)0 -
I have Logos 10 Full Feature set, Logos 10 Portfolio (Deutsch) and Verbum 10 Full Feature set. Will there be a bundle offer? I am interested in Logos Max (early access)0 -
Benny said:
I have Logos 10 Full Feature set, Logos 10 Portfolio (Deutsch) and Verbum 10 Full Feature set. Will there be a bundle offer? I am interested in Logos Max (early access)At least at launch, there won't be any new features that would only be in the German edition of Logos Max or the Verbum equivalent and that wouldn't also be in Logos Max. So, if you already own all the German and Verbum features there would be no benefit in you taking out multiple subscriptions. You can just choose one and know that you'll have all that Logos has to offer. You will be able to buy multiple libraries, however.
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I wouldn't mind the option to pay bi-annually so that I could always preserve my fall back license in the future.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:Benny said:
I have Logos 10 Full Feature set, Logos 10 Portfolio (Deutsch) and Verbum 10 Full Feature set. Will there be a bundle offer? I am interested in Logos Max (early access)At least at launch, there won't be any new features that would only be in the German edition of Logos Max or the Verbum equivalent and that wouldn't also be in Logos Max. So, if you already own all the German and Verbum features there would be no benefit in you taking out multiple subscriptions. You can just choose one and know that you'll have all that Logos has to offer. You will be able to buy multiple libraries, however.
Mark I have a question. So I understand that non subscribers can not purchase the new libraries. So as I stated before I will get the Ultimate base when it's available. However, I have a training account and I am not subscribing the training account. So my question since the training account is me and I have an active subscription can my training account update to a new library? If not I guess I will stop training others to use the software.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
1Cor10 31">
(i) pay subscription/month to enjoy the features as they come out
or
(ii) wait for 2 years to see what will be included in the Legacy Fallback License and then pay 2 years worth of subscription at one shot to immediately get the Legacy Fallback License?
I think (i) is a better option, but certainly you can do option (ii) if you prefer. And yes, if you take either option, you've got a better deal than we've offered before, IMO.
Mark Barnes (Logos) said:1Cor10 31">Let’s say that you have Legacy Fallback License in Oct 1, 2026 and Oct 1, 2028.
Making firm plans of what will happen in four years' time is hard, especially during a time of transition. We've confirmed that the Legacy Fallback license will be issued from October 2026, but we haven't yet confirmed in detail what will happen after that date.
Thank you Mark.
I believe in a Win-Win-Win God.
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Mark... Which should I cancel? What do I lose and what do i gain? I don't want to be paying both if both are the same.
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cool
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Fos Zoe said:
I wouldn't mind the option to pay bi-annually so that I could always preserve my fall back license in the future.
We're hoping there will be an option to pay for two years upfront.
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Matt Hamrick said:
However, I have a training account and I am not subscribing the training account. So my question since the training account is me and I have an active subscription can my training account update to a new library? If not I guess I will stop training others to use the software.
Anyone on a free trial or with the cheapest monthly subscription will be able to buy a library.
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mike said:
Mark... Which should I cancel? What do I lose and what do i gain? I don't want to be paying both if both are the same.
Given that the renewal dates are far into the future and that you're currently getting three months free of Logos Max, I'd be inclined to hang on.
Once the full subscription launches, we'll probably merge both subscriptions on our end, and whatever term is left on the one will get added to the other (pro-rated).
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Have you any ideas if the print library will be available after 2 years of subscription to max
Will it be a feature I can keep? Non ai side of course...
Can you ahead any light at all
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I just signed up to early access for Pro and only option was to pay $99 for annual with charge Oct 3rd after free trial. I would possibly be interested in paying for two years upfront for legacy fallback (assuming it's also at a discounted rate). is that being set up and how would I make the change. Also, in your "what's new with Logos-Aug 2024" you mentioned a spreadsheet with more detailed breakdown of features for different packages that you would post on the chat. I can't find the chat so I would appreciate a link to where I could find that. Thanks!
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michael franklin said:
I just signed up to early access for Pro and only option was to pay $99 for annual with charge Oct 3rd after free trial. I would possibly be interested in paying for two years upfront for legacy fallback (assuming it's also at a discounted rate). is that being set up and how would I make the change. Also, in your "what's new with Logos-Aug 2024" you mentioned a spreadsheet with more detailed breakdown of features for different packages that you would post on the chat. I can't find the chat so I would appreciate a link to where I could find that. Thanks!
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Actually Mark's sentence construction was correct as you would expect from someone who is British[:D].DMB said:Aaron Hamilton said:Misunderstanding? I don't think Mark was saying that in 2026 they would say more about the Fallback License. Rather, I think he was saying that in the future (soon) they will be able to say more about how frequently they will update the Fallback License, which will first be issued in Oct. 2026.
I'm just illustrating how difficult it is, to follow the whole process ... bits and pieces here and there, poor sentence construction, etc. I try to imagine a corporate environment like that.
You misinterpreted what he said as "I'm sure we'll be able to say more after 2026" but the phrase "after 2026" was correctly placed as a modifier to "Legacy Fallback".[^o)]0 -
Berechiah said:
Have you any ideas if the print library will be available after 2 years of subscription to max
Will it be a feature I can keep? Non ai side of course...
Can you ahead any light at all
Print Library is included with the Logos 10 Full Feature Set - you might want to look at that, since you will "own" it going forward. Hopefully they will extend the Last Chance Sale until launch since they have not educated users on what is Fallback License eligible and what is not.... The sale ends on September 6th.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Can you give link to new libraries available to buy with free trial/subscription? I saw offer when signing up initially but can't find it now.
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Just heard about this today. I bought this stuff. Now it's gone.
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