Roman Catholic Commentary/Translation/Study Bible Recommendations for an Evangelical Protestant
Hello,
I'm a run-of-the-mill conservative Evangelical(ish) protestant and I'm looking for some recommendations on resources (preferably in Logos, but I'll take what I can get) on the basics of the Catholic faith.
I'd like to understand the Catholic faith better, but I have no idea where to start.
I'd like to find a single or two-volume modern commentary, study Bible, and modern translation that would be generally accepted to be "good" to "great" by modern conservative Catholics. It'd be nice if all these volumes were at a popular/knowledgeable laymen level, for someone like me that has a bit of theology knowledge but no seminary training. I'm not particularly looking for anything applicational, but more theological.
I'll list what the recommendations looked like if they were for evangelical recommendation, in hopes that it makes this request make a little more sense.
- Commentary: Expositor's Bible Commentary, ESV Expository Commentary, Moody Commentary
- Study Bible: ESV Study Bible, MacArthur Study Bible, NIV Grace and Truth Study Bible, etc.
- Translation: ESV, NLT, NASB, etc.
Essentially, I'd like a Roman Catholic version of those recommendations, which would reflect what the modern, faithful, conservative Catholic believes in terms of theology and is written in the modern era and modern English.
If there happens to be a legacy package which covers all those bases (or most) by all means, please recommend.
Comments
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Hi Frank,
Actually, given your interest in learning the basics of the Catholic faith and understanding the Catholic faith better, there is no better resource than The Catechism of the Catholic Church.
What makes the Catholic faith somewhat unique is that the teaching of the Catholic Church is authoritatively defined and comprehensive. This Catechism is THE document that describes the faith. What's more, it is HEAVILY footnoted with scripture references, writings of the Early Church Fathers, and references to other Catholic/Papal documents through the ages ( many of which are also in Logos and Verbum).
It is comprehensive, over 800 pages, and as I said it's the definitive teaching resource of the Church - no commentary or book will be as authoritative. It is organized into 4 broad areas - Profession of Faith, Celebration of the Christian Mystery (how Catholics worship and why), Life in Christ (vocations and commandments), and Prayer.
This is so much the first source for learning the faith, that it is the book used in almost every Catholic Church for the program for those that aspire to become Catholic.
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Shalom Frank,
I am a fellow protestant so I hope someone else will answer your question. In the meantime you could read the following Verbum blog post:
https://blog.verbum.com/2024/03/catholic-bible-study/
Frank Hodges said:If there happens to be a legacy package which covers all those bases (or most) by all means, please recommend.
I would take a look at the Verbum 7 Starter Library: https://www.logos.com/product/208071/verbum-7-starter-legacy-library
It contains the NRSVCE, the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible (New Testament) and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
PS: I see that Don has already written an answer.
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HJ. van der Wal said:
I would take a look at the Verbum 7 Starter Library: https://www.logos.com/product/208071/verbum-7-starter-legacy-library
It contains the NRSVCE, the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible (New Testament) and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
Great call, HJ. My dynamic price was $7.48, for several valuable resources. Thank you for the tip, HJ, and thank you for the OP request, Frank.
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HJ. van der Wal said:
I would take a look at the Verbum 7 Starter Library: https://www.logos.com/product/208071/verbum-7-starter-legacy-library
It contains the NRSVCE, the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible (New Testament) and the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
This is a great recommendation! You will get a number of the resources footnoted in the Catechism - but start with that first :-)
BTW, "Youcat" - "Youth Catechism" is an awesome book presenting the catechism for teenagers, or at their level, which you will also get.
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Thank you guys, I very much so appreciate the suggestions.
I do have the Catechism, but unfortunately, it's doesn't really work well for what I'm trying to do. I'd like to have Catholic commentary alongside the rest of my commentary in Passage Guide.
Perhaps someone has compiled a PB with the scripture index of the Catechism with verse milestones?
That said, do you happen to have any commentary recommendations? Or are verse-by-verse commentaries not very common in modern Catholicism?0 -
Sure, Frank. Here is a picture of my library Priority list of commentaries, all these are authentically Catholic. I am pretty sure Jerome is no longer available, but you can get it in hard copy on Amazon - go for this one, an older version edited by Dr. Raymond Brown, one of the top 20th century theologians. It may be little more expensive than you are willing to spend if you are interested in a hard copy, but worth it to learn authentically Catholic. If that's a little too rich for your taste in a single volume commentary, go for the Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture. But this is my priority list, the rest are multi-volume commentaries and all are grea!
Look them over, and if you have questions or you want excerpts or examples, let me know!
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Frank Hodges said:
That said, do you happen to have any commentary recommendations? Or are verse-by-verse commentaries not very common in modern Catholicism?
I had written a post that somehow didn't "take." I don't recommend the catechism as a starting point because differences in the meaning of some words leads to real misunderstanding unless you have someone to bounce things off of. I had stressed the importance of keeping these maxims in mind:
[quote]St. Vincent of Lérins is known for two seemingly contrasting quotes that address the preservation of traditional doctrine and the development of doctrine. Here are the relevant quotes:
- On teaching only what has been taught everywhere, always:
"Hold fast to that Faith, which has been received, everywhere, always by all."This quote is often referred to as the Vincentian Canon. A more expanded version states:"In the Catholic Church itself, every care should be taken to hold fast to what has been believed everywhere, always and by all."
- On teaching what is old in new ways:
"Teach precisely what you have learned; do not say new things even if you say them in a new manner."Vincent elaborates on this idea of progress in religious understanding:"To be sure, there has to be progress, even exceedingly great progress."He further explains:"It must be progress in the proper sense of the word, and not a change in faith. Progress means that each thing grows within itself, whereas change implies that one thing is transformed into another."
and [quote]The phrase "as we pray, so we believe" is a common English translation of the Latin theological principle "lex orandi, lex credendi." This principle has its origins in early Christian thought, but was not expressed in exactly those words originally. Here are the key points about the origin and meaning of this phrase:
- Original formulation: The concept was first articulated by Prosper of Aquitaine in the 5th century. His original Latin phrase was "ut legem credendi lex statuat supplicandi," which means "that the law of praying establishes the law of believing".
- Shortened version: Over time, this was shortened to "lex orandi, lex credendi," which literally translates to "the law of praying [is] the law of believing".
- English translation: The common English rendering "as we pray, so we believe" is a modern paraphrase of this Latin principle.
- Meaning: This principle suggests that the way we worship and pray shapes what we believe. It emphasizes the connection between liturgy and theology.
- Expansion: Sometimes the phrase is expanded to "lex orandi, lex credendi, lex vivendi," meaning "as we worship, so we believe, so we live," emphasizing the connection between worship, belief, and Christian living.
- Usage: This principle is important in Catholic, Orthodox, and some Protestant traditions, particularly in discussions about liturgy and its relationship to doctrine
These principles are as ground into my mind as sola scriptura is in yours. For one volume commentaries - this one is in Verbum The Paulist Biblical Commentary - Verbum It is adequate but on the simple side. Due to publisher changes Amazon.com: The Jerome Biblical Commentary for the Twenty-First Century: Third Fully Revised Edition: 9781474248853: Collins, John J., Hens-Piazza, Gina, Reid OP, Barbara, Senior, Donald, Francis, Pope: Books no longer is available in Verbum -- but it is the standard against which other one volume commentaries are measured. The International Bible Commentary: Farmer, William R., LaCocque, Andre, Levoratti, Armando, Dungan, David L.: 9780814624548: Amazon.com: Books is also worthy of mention. Collegeville is written at a simpler level so I would not recommend it to you although I do recommend it for people with little knowledge of scripture.
Translation NABRE because it is underrated and you probably haven't read it or New Jerusalem Bible; Study Bible Catholic Study Bible, 2nd ed. | Logos Bible Software or just the notes for the New Jerusalem Bible. Catechism try Catechism of the Ukrainian Catholic Church: Christ - Our Pascha: Synod of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church: 9780980930924: Amazon.com: Books which is much more readable and much less prone to misinterpretation than the Catechism of the Catholic Church i.e. the primary Western catechism.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Lots of responses here already, but I didn't see anyone address translations... I think if conservative Catholics were polled, most would choose one of the two versions of the Catholic Edition RSV. The Second Catholic Edition (2006) has the advantage over the original (1966) of having replaced the thees & thous of the RSV with modern diction. There is also a recent Catholic Edition (2019) of the ESV, as you may know, which has also been well-received among conservative Catholics, so if you already prefer the ESV, that's a good option. All of these have Logos editions.
There are two terrific Catholic Study Bibles based on the RSV-2CE. The full Ignatius Catholic Study Bible is being released in November. A New Testament volume has been around since 2010, as have bits & pieces of the OT. My hardback NT volume is a prized possession. Strong in faith, it is heaviliy annotated, with a great mix of technical, contextual, theological, doctrinal, and pastoral notes.
The other excellent option for RSV-2CE-based Study Bible is the Didache Bible from Midwest Theological Forum. This work is unique in that the commentary is constantly providing cross-reference to Catechism passages, making it easy to see the inter-relations between Scripture, doctrine, and practice.
The other Catholic Study Bibles out there are mostly based on the Revised New American Bible (the version published by the US bishops) which is itself heavily annotated, but not always to the liking of conservatives. Likewise, those Study Bibles - although they each have their place - are probably less what you're looking for.
One-volume commentaries are not a strong suit in the Catholic world. Orchard's commentary has been mentioned (Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture, 1953). That's actually a terrific Catholic 1Vol-Comm, and it's available in Logos for short money! However, it was published when Catholics were still using Vulgate-based translations, so proper names are sometimes spelled/pronounced dfferently, and overall the language is a bit dated.
The other Catholic 1V-Cs are a mixed bag. The Jerome/New Jerome has been a standard-bearer for 50+ years, but is neither faithful nor conservative, frankly. The recent 3rd edition does not look to be an improvement in that regard. It is technically excellent, but often annoying to those with a high view of Scriptural inspiration and inerrancy. I have limited experience with the new Paulist commentary, and while I've liked it OK so far, it is pastorally-oriented, and might not be what you're after. The other option is the lightweight New Collegeville Commentary from Liturgical Press (sold in Logos in 2-vols, but still basically a 1Vol-Comm). It's cheap enough to be tempting, but it focuses more on summarizing than expositing, and strikes me as more conventionally academic than Catholic.
If you're interested, this page summarizes some of the resources available for Catholics at the non-expert level: https://maybetoday.org/scripture/bible-in-english/basic-resources/
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John W Gillis said:
I think if conservative Catholics were polled,
No insult to John intended, but I would stay away from self-called "conservative Catholics" which in my experience is the narrow Western Catholic view - a reaction to the Protestant Reformation. Admittedly that is my own tradition, but for the same reason many Protestants are more open to Eastern Orthodoxy than Catholicism even when they are teaching the same doctrine, I think you need to read a Catholicism that includes or is open to the Eastern Rites' Catholic perspective. This is so conservative as to be positively Medieval rather than Tridentine conservative or Pre-Vatican II conservative. I will now run for cover and stay in hiding because there are probably few in the forums who agree with me. But trust me, the Catholic doctrines worded in a way you have not been trained to refute and Bible commentary in familiar terminology is the way to get the understanding you want.
MJ ducking for cover
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I wanted to recommend the first book of that set but Verbum/Logos only sells the whole set which is a worthwhile purchase in my opinion, but you can buy just the first volume on Amazon.
As far as translations, hard to go wrong with the RSVCE. I like the ESVCE also.
When it comes to easy commentaries, the name Scott Hahn comes up a lot. Logos has several of his titles available. He is associated with the Ignatius Catholic Study Bible mentioned above. Unfortunately, only the NT is currently out and in Verbum. The OT Print edition is scheduled for Nov but I don't know if/when it will make its way into Verbum.
However, I highly recommend "The Emergence of the Catholic Tradition 100 - 600 AD" by Pelikan.
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This is the route I was actually going to be taking, as I'm already very familiar with the ESV and I wouldn't have to worry about being confused with different textual basis and translation methodology, but I'm out of touch with what Catholics revere and respect so I thought I would ask first. I can only assume it's similar to the Protestant landscape where you ask 10 people and get 11 answers.John W Gillis said:There is also a recent Catholic Edition (2019) of the ESV, as you may know, which has also been well-received among conservative Catholics, so if you already prefer the ESV, that's a good option.
I'll check out the single volume you recommended because I personally don't have a need for an exhaustive collection of commentaries at the moment and the Paulist commentary is a bit pricey for a use case like my own.
One that seems to come up a lot is the Jerome you mentioned, but I would like to have everything in Logos. I'll check out the Collegeville Commentary you mentioned.
Thank you all a ton for all the suggestions.0 -
I guess I should ask how each defines "conservative" because just like in Protestantism, the definition I'm sure varies person-to-person. I guess I should also have a bit of a better idea as to what it is I'm looking for. Maybe a good way to articulate it would be to give an example of what the shoe would look like on the other foot:MJ. Smith said:This is so conservative as to be positively Medieval rather than Tridentine conservative or Pre-Vatican II conservative
Ted is a Roman Catholic. Ted has a friend named John with basic Protestant convictions. Ted has only ever read Catholic authors, translations, commentaries etc. Ted wants to understand and be a better friend to John and doesn't intend to change John's theological convictions in any way, but wants to understand better what John's church service may look like, and what the people around him are like. Ted knows Mary, who is a similar type of Protestant as John (let's just say Pentecostal and Baptist). Ted knows that Mary and John have a similar hermeneutic, similar foundational doctrinal convictions, but Ted also realizes that John and Mary see different secondary doctrines differently. Ted doesn't want to learn about what Baptists vs. Pentecostals believe differently about spiritual gifts or sanctification, rather Ted is interested in being able to view the world in the same way that Mary and John do and glean some of the insights that Ted may be missing because of a "blindspot" Ted might have. Ted is interested in being able to put on a pair of "Protestant" glasses while listening to an Evangelical preacher, reading an Evangelical commentary, or during his devotion time. Mary might suggest an ESV Study Bible, MacArthur Study Bible, NIVAC, etc. to help Ted as those are all somewhat representative of the modern protestant landscape.
Given that this is written on a forum, my text may read differently than intended. Obviously, I'm not trying to say Ted has a blindspot and Mary and John don't, but I can see how it can be read that way. I genuinely want to understand scripture and tradition in a way the everyday Catholic does.
I've found that in my tradition, there is a few blind spots that usually occur because of our foundational view of scripture (Sola Scriptura, which btw I only hold with a very open hand... honestly if pressed I may actually be Prima Scriptura). I just want to read scripture though the lens of a Catholic who holds scripture very highly, but also understands the value of the Church and tradition. I've been trying to do this for quite some time, but it's a lot harder than one would think. Really, it's hard to find non-polemical and non-strawman information on "the other side's" point of view, which really is sad, but it is what it is.
Thanks a ton for your recommendations also MJ btw. All of these recommendations are going to be a wishlist for me.
It's interesting you say that, I've always thought the Reformation view (or what it eventually turned into) to be the reactionary one. I don't say this as a value statement as much as an observation. That said, both can be true. A reaction to the reaction, if you will.MJ. Smith said:narrow Western Catholic view - a reaction to the Protestant Reformation
I also have another question, I would like to know from your guys' perspective if the YouTuber
If so/if not, are there any YT recommendations one can give?0 -
Fos Zoe said:
Hey one I already own! Who woulda thought! Thank you!
Thanks for the Scott Hahn recommendation too. I seem to own some of his works already, though I didn't even know he had commentaries. I always thought he was an apologist.
It's always interesting that we evangelicals have some Catholic authors that we esteem: Raymond Brown, Scott Hahn, Peter Kreeft, Chesterton... you'll rarely hear evangelicals raging against those guys. Though not Roman Catholic I would lump Hank Hannegraff into that. Maybe Catholic authors are fine so long as they don't have Father in front of their name? Maybe it's fine if they were Catholic so long as more than 50 years have elapsed? [^o)] Who knows? (I say this in jest)0 -
Frank Hodges said:
I guess I should ask how each defines "conservative" because just like in Protestantism, the definition I'm sure varies person-to-person.MJ. Smith said:This is so conservative as to be positively Medieval rather than Tridentine conservative or Pre-Vatican II conservative
Frank, this is why, in response to your original post of wanting to "understand the Catholic faith better" (direct quote), I referred you to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC). As you have already seen here, it is common for Catholics to believe there is interpretation and variances where there is not - there are ones whose true authority is themselves. One can choose to disagree with Catholic teaching of course, but Church teaching is well documented even though some will discount that.
I quote from the Apostolic Letter written by Pope John Paul II, who authorized and published the CCC, and which is written in the beginning of the CCC:
"The Church now has at her disposal this new, authoritative exposition of the one and perennial apostolic faith, and it will serve as a “valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion” and as a “sure norm for teaching the faith,” as well as a “sure and authentic reference text” for preparing local catechisms"
and
"The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved June 25th last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition, and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion."
...anything...ANYTHING else you read that is in contradiction to the CCC - people's opinions, commentaries, etc. that is in contradiction is not the teaching of the Catholic Church. Those are all valuable resources but only serve with value once the true teaching is understood. Many don't believe this, but it's true and validated here by Pope John Paul II - and it is what makes the Catholic Church somewhat unique in articulating its teaching in detail, authoritatively.
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I just reread this, and yes... this is exactly what I'm looking for.MJ. Smith said:But trust me, the Catholic doctrines worded in a way you have not been trained to refute and Bible commentary in familiar terminology is the way to get the understanding you want.
I've wishlisted most of what has been suggested so far. Any other Logos resources that you could think may be of value? The Didache Bible seems very intriguing, unfortunately it looks like it is not available in Logos.0 -
Frank Hodges said:
I just want to read scripture though the lens of a Catholic who holds scripture very highly, but also understands the value of the Church and tradition. I've been trying to do this for quite some time, but it's a lot harder than one would think. Really, it's hard to find non-polemical and non-strawman information on "the other side's" point of view, which really is sad, but it is what it is.
I'm not sure what you are trying to do is even possible given the time it takes for converts to truly gain the mindset of a Catholic. In evangelizing, for example, the first impulse of most Protestants is to open a Bible; the first impulse of most Catholics is to take someone to a Mass. Most Protestants are focused on salvation and heaven; most Catholics are focused on being a member of the family of God. Most Catholics and Orthodox are more comfortable simply saying its a mystery rather than resolving logical inconsistencies (often stated as both-and vs. either-or). Catholics and Orthodox tend to be more concerned than Protestants with how the Bible has been understood over time (and not just 500 years or so). Catholics and Orthodox lean more towards the communal although there are Protestants more communal than Catholics. Catholics trust the human mind to be in God's image and therefore are more comfortable than some Protestants with clashes between science and religion, figuring that in time it will be resolved. Catholics live in a world where miracles still happen; some Protestants do not. Catholics are often tolerant of devotional practices that border on magic in ways most Protestants cannot. The list could go on and on. In a real sense, some Catholics' and some Protestants' world views are so different it is hard to say that they live in the same world - whether or not they do truly depends on your stance on how much of reality is a mental construct. That is why I truly appreciate books like The Way of the Pilgrim or Sayings of the Desert Fathers for their ability to show alternative views of reality.
I think you are headed in the right direction for your aims and that the study Bibles and one volume commentaries will be able to help you. But I'd like to suggest a small introductory step - read the Gospels with a favorite commentary and the Catena Aurea along side. Note what types of issues the two feel it is necessary to comment on -- and that is a major step to understanding. Note this exercise is also worth doing with the Torah and a Jewish commentary.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Good point. I should rephrase. I guess, in essence, I'm mostly interested in understanding the everyday "conservative" Catholic rather than the Catholic Church. Again, I should add a disclaimer, this isn't meant to be read derogatorily.Don Awalt said:Frank, this is why, in response to your original post of wanting to "understand the Catholic faith better" (direct quote), I referred you to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC). As you have already seen here, it is common for Catholics to believe there is interpretation and variances where there is not - there are ones whose true authority is themselves. One can choose to disagree with Catholic teaching of course, but Church teaching is well documented even though some will discount that.
You can have a 1689 LBC confessing church, who technically holds to the 1689, but doesn't have the same area of emphasis that the document itself does. I'm more interested in what the congregants or that specific church teaches rather than what the 1689 itself teaches, if that makes sense. If I were asking about that particular church, I might suggest John Piper or John MacArthur, even though neither of them hold to the 1689, they would be representative of what those churchgoers might believe/read or would consider "solid". Phrased a different way, I'm interested in learning and understanding the churchgoer rather than the Church. In a perfect world, these would be the same.
I apologize, I really don't know how to articulate what it is that I actually want, and that can make this conversation a bit more confusing.
That said, I really appreciate all your guys' thoughtful responses and recommendations. None of them have fallen on deaf ears, though it may seem so. And sorry in advance if I get any of the capitalization wrong in Church/church, not intended... again, I've been evangelical forever and there's different emphasis on different things within my tradition... hence the need for recommendations.0 -
So what you're saying is I'm a Catholic and I don't know it? [:P]MJ. Smith said:In evangelizing, for example, the first impulse of most Protestants is to open a Bible; the first impulse of most Catholics is to take someone to a Mass. Most Protestants are focused on salvation and heaven; most Catholics are focused on being a member of the family of God. Most Catholics and Orthodox are more comfortable simply saying its a mystery rather than resolving logical inconsistencies (often stated as both-and vs. either-or). Catholics and Orthodox tend to be more concerned than Protestants with how the Bible has been understood over time (and not just 500 years or so). Catholics and Orthodox lean more towards the communal although there are Protestants more communal than Catholics. Catholics trust the human mind to be in God's image and therefore are more comfortable than some Protestants with clashes between science and religion, figuring that in time it will be resolved. Catholics live in a world where miracles still happen; some Protestants do not. Catholics are often tolerant of devotional practices that border on magic in ways most Protestants cannot. The list could go on and on
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This is actually quite funny, because every year I do a program called Exodus90 which, for all intents and purposes, is a Catholic program.
We always start a Protestant fraternity, because we find value in program, but don't necessarily want to do some of the more "Catholic" disciplines (veneration, etc.)
Without fail, every year we have about 5 protestant guys (Baptist, non-denom, EFree, IFB, Calvary), and maybe two or three non-protestant non-Roman Catholics (Anglican, EO, sometimes an RC guy slips in.)
About 30 days into the 90 day program some of the disciplines start involving Catholic practices (veneration, certain fasts/feast days, etc.) The non-Protestant guys are always used to doing some of these things, but obviously the evangelical guys aren't.
Without fail, the second we get to some of those practices, the evangelical guys throw a fit... without fail, the heresy word is always thrown out there. Without fail, a couple guys quit the program and we are scrambling to find everyone anchors (accountability partners) again.
This conversation is making me think that this year, instead of facilitating another protestant fraternity, I may be more at home joining a Catholic one and just abstaining from certain matters of conscience. Something tells me this may work better.0 -
Frank Hodges said:
So what you're saying is I'm a Catholic and I don't know it?
You may be ... I know a few who think they're Catholic but their theology is Protestant [8-|]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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If I can find a parish that has gluten free Eucharist and incense that doesn't give me a headache, I'll give it a fair shake.MJ. Smith said:You may be ... I know a few who think they're Catholic but their theology is Protestant
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As a Lutheran, as for the main purpose of this thread, I find myself sitting outside of what seems to assumed... But as for Gluten free eucharist, I have been at multiple Lutheran congregations where gluten free hosts are available. They are not used by most of the congregation, but are available to those who express their desire/need for them. I would be shocked if Roman Catholic parishes would not be able to get use them too.
The Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
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Frank Hodges said:
If I can find a parish that has gluten free Eucharist and incense that doesn't give me a headache, I'll give it a fair shake.
Gluten free Eucharist can be arranged but they have a horrid gummy texture. Many churches don't use incense or use hypoallergenic incense sparingly and have a perfume-free seating area. You can even bring your emotional support dog ...
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Frank Hodges said:
I guess, in essence, I'm mostly interested in understanding the everyday "conservative" Catholic rather than the Catholic Church
I guess this is a rhetorical question you don't need to answer, but why would you want to understand what some category of person believes, a category that may have 1000 different beliefs, instead of what the institution itself professes authoritatively as its faith? You can find a Catholic who believes almost anything on any given subject. That doesn't mean anything beyond that it's what that person believes.
And, despite what others say, objectively there is no such thing as a conservative Catholic, it's not in any teaching, formal documents, institutional makeup, nothing. It's what some people call others, or what they call themselves in response to other people's beliefs, all in stark contradiction to what the Church they supposedly profess to, teaches. It's not like politics where different parties have a professed platform they support (and even then, people who consider themselves of that party don't agree with all that either).
Oh well, good luck I hope you find what you are seeking!
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Don Awalt said:
I guess this is a rhetorical question you don't need to answer, but why would you want to understand what some category of person believes, a category that may have 1000 different beliefs, instead of what the institution itself professes authoritatively as its faith?
Very interesting question. I am more interested in what individuals believe because it reflects the actual concerns of a community (i.e. where the rubber hits the road) as opposed to the big picture across all space and time. And it helps me understand why individual behavior contradicts professed beliefs. But then my views are shaped in part by individuals I know who have changed denominations then denied that their new denomination teaches what the denomination identifies as distinctives. [:O]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Frank Hodges said:
I'd like to understand the Catholic faith better, but I have no idea where to start.
Hi Frank! I'm a Roman Catholic. For quick access to the information requested in Logos I recommend the following:
On doctrine, see here or here.
On bible, see here, here or here.
All one-volumes.
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The extensive Navarre Bible is an excellent Catholic commentary. I use it as part of my every bible reading. It's available in Verbum and probably is part of a collection in which dynamic pricing would be very favorable.
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Thanks Joseph. I grew up with a Joe Valentine, unfortunately he passed at a young age.Joseph Valentine said:The extensive Navarre Bible is an excellent Catholic commentary. I use it as part of my every bible reading. It's available in Verbum and probably is part of a collection in which dynamic pricing would be very favorable.
The Navarre Bible was another consideration of mine. From the looks of it, it's fairly academic though correct? The listing makes it a bit confusing considering it comes in Verbum Academic packages but the listing says "More comprehensive than the The Navarre Bible: New Testament, this volume features notes and introductions—rarely very technical—designed to illuminate the spiritual and theological message of the Bible."
There is two separate listings for the Navarre Bible. There's Navarre Bible, Standard Edition (19 vols.) and The Navarre Bible: New Testament. I would think the latter was an abridgement of the first, but the listing doesn't indicate that so I'm a bit confused.
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I have both Navarre bible versions, they occasionally go on sale. The larger one only has a few Old Testament books I don't find them particularly useful because they're too detailed and long. I find Haydock's Catholic Bible Commentary much more useful.
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Frank Hodges said:
There is two separate listings for the Navarre Bible.
The Standard Edition Navarre Bible was an English translation first published in 1985 of a Spanish-language commentary produced by faculty of the University of Navarre at the behest of the school’s (and Opus Dei) founder St Josemaría Escrivá. The New Testament was published in twelve volumes, and the Old Testament in seven volumes. In print (not Logos), the commentary is accompanied by the text of the Latin New Vulgate, and the English text of the Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (the original edition in Spanish was built around a new Spanish Bible translation done at Navarre). The commentary draws on the writings of the Church Fathers, Catholic Magisterial texts, and works of Catholic spiritual writers, including Escrivá. The scope is the full 73-book Roman Catholic canon.
The Navarre Bible New Testament is a new but related one-volume commentary published in 2008. This edition is more concise, relies less on the writings of Escrivá, and provides references to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which had been published several years after the completion of the original ("Standard") Navarre edition. It tends to treat larger sections of text than the original, which is more verse-focused. Although it is in a sense an abridgement of the Standard edition, it is also a thorough revision.
I agree with the listing description: Neither of these works is technical or academic in the sense typically implied. Although they discuss some cultural background matters, the focus is on understanding the spiritual implications of the Divine Word.
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