For the First Time I Regret Building a Library in Logos
Comments
-
Samuel said:
New accounts are subscription only - this tells you that all of us are being accommodated.
This is my confusion. I thought everyone could own features after two years. I did not realize it was only for current owners.
Ultimately, I am okay with the way Adobe does subscriptions, and Logos is going the same route. I would not be able to purchase the Adobe Creative Suite outright, and I certainly wouldn't want to purchase a new upgrade every year or two, so the subscription works out for me.
I am heavily invested in Logos, so my upgrades are cheaper; however, I do see that the subscription service will make Logos more welcoming for new customers, and I don't see where I'm being hurt by it, so if that's what makes Logos stay around for a long time so that I can still make use of my investment, then I am okay with it.
I do understand though that others have issues with it, and I am certainly not dismissing those complaints.
Disclaimer: I hate using messaging, texting, and email for real communication. If anything that I type to you seems like anything other than humble and respectful, then I have not done a good job typing my thoughts.
0 -
Joseph Turner said:
so if that's what makes Logos stay around for a long time so that I can still make use of my investment, then I am okay with it.
🙏🏿
Blessings in Christ.
0 -
Cash flow for Logos is a good thing for us because it keeps them in business. A "frozen in time" product is better than a dead product. I have 6000+ books, and I want to be able to keep using them. Nonetheless, even if you never pay for another new feature or buy a subscription, you will benefit because the basic product will always be upgraded to the latest technology so you can run it on the latest platforms.
0 -
Part of what bothers me about the consequence that will be faced by new subscription customers who never owned a feature set, is whether or not it occurs to them, they are making a long-term investment in the resources they buy--resources that cost more in Logos than they do elsewhere because of all the tagging, etc. that Logos says (and I agree) make the resources worth more. But will the resources (the long-term investment) really be worth the higher price, if the features needed to benefit from that extra resource work are lost because a person has to stop subscribing and they have no two-year subscription option that makes ownership of the features then in place available to them.Doc B said:DMB said:The new Logosian will want videos for learning, and then be presented with subscribe-only features examples. It won't be pretty.
Agreed. I think they are betting on the car-lease mentality...meaning a significant number of people can't do math and will lease a car despite the terrible long-term investment realities for most situations. This will indeed increase revenue for the company, though.
For those that are young enough to care nothing about long-term investment, I think the subscription model will make sense.
Again, I'm hoping there's something I'm missing or misunderstanding, but I haven't seen the issue of higher resource investment cost addressed. If a future new customer has to stop their subscription, what features (if any) will they be left with to justify the initial higher resource cost? At that point, will Logos be anything more for the customer than a tool for reading their expensive resources?
I find it hard to believe Logos will be nothing more than a reading app if a person has to stop subscribing. But recommending Logos to future potential customers is not something I'll be able to do without having a better handle on this issue.
And as others have noted--time stands still for no one (and no app). So over time, Logos WILL change--that's just life. So even those of us who currently own the highest feature set will likely see current features eventually retired, replaced, or blended into newer features by another name, until it reaches the point that in regard to the value/benefit we'll get out of our long-term investment in resources from our current features, will diminish or possibly disappear entirely unless we subscribe. If so, we'll be faced with the same dilemma as new future subscriber customers who find they have to stop subscribing.0 -
Cash flow for Logos from subscriptions is a good thing for us, even if we don't have a subscription, because it keeps Logos in business. A "frozen in time" product is better than a dead product. I have 6000+ books, and I want to be able to keep using them. Even if you never pay for another new feature or buy a subscription, you will benefit because the basic product will always be upgraded to the latest technology so you can run it on the latest platforms.
0 -
John Fidel said:
EastTN,
I mean this in the kindest way, if they offered a purchase price of say $189 for all the non-AI features, but would also allow you to use the AI features for 2 years, would that be of interest? Maybe if they offered 3 different tiers for study group leaders, pastors and original language at different prices, similar to Bronze, Silver and Gold in the past?
How is that any different from paying the 2 year subscription price and getting the same thing? Logos tried to figure out a way to allow for "ownership" of non-AI features by allowing ownership of those features with a 2 year subscription. To me, and I may be missing something, it is the same thing as a "purchase option" for non-AI features.
You would normally purchase a new feature set every two years or just keep what you have if you are not interested in upgrading. Similarly, you can choose to continue the subscription or just opt out.
Please advise me on what I am missing.
John,
First of all, I hope I haven't impugned anyone's motives here - I assume we're all operating in good faith. Your question is kindly framed, and I appreciate that.
It seems to me that what you're describing is fundamentally different in a couple of significant ways. First, a subscription sets up a recurring charge against your credit card or bank account. It's easy to lose track of subscriptions, and it's easy for the vendor to increase them bit-by-bit over time. You may track your finances closely enough that this isn't a concern for you, but it is for me due to my personal situation. I'm close to retirement, and I know - don't expect, but know - that my income will drop sharply in just a few years. I can afford to buy now but must be careful about committing to making future payments out of a much lower, fixed retirement income. Not everyone is in that boat, but still - that's where I am, and it's a concern for me. It's not just Logos - I'm doing my best to avoid taking on any new subscriptions, and taking a number of other steps to prepare for retirement. Second, it is a two-year commitment - and we're not getting the AI features for free. We may be getting them for "no additional charge," but they're not free. That's just basic economics.
On my part, I'd like to say this as kindly as I can. I think it makes perfect sense for FaithLife to offer subscription plans. Generative AI is currently the hot new technological thing, so I'm not surprised that they've jumped on the bandwagon (though I personally think it's premature, and I'm very concerned about both the dangers of allowing AI to "ghostwrite" our sermons and lessons and the possibility of AI hallucinations affecting my studies). But a subscription model doesn't make a lot of financial sense in my personal situation, and I don't see enough potential benefit in the cloud-based AI tools to cause me to make the ongoing financial commitment over my best judgment. (Especially since Logos already has far more bells and whistles than I'll ever use.)
Having said that, I recognize that this may be wonderful for many other users - which is great. I'm just frustrated and saddened that FaithLife isn't providing an upgrade path that makes sense for me. I wish they would, and don't understand why they don't, because it wouldn't be that hard.
0 -
EastTN,
I agree with you, that in your case, there is cause for concern for the future. Many of us are close to being in the same boat as you are. And I agree that there must be a better way to take care of faithful Logos users like you, I'm just not sure it can be done easily.
Right now, if you pay up front for the Legacy Fallback License it will cost you 189.00. and you get to keep all non AI features except what you already had in Logos full feature set. But who knows if they will continue that type of program for the future. So, at some point we would come to the rock and a hard place.
What seems hard for me to figure out is how to make it better.
1. Do they go back and offer two versions of Logos? version 1, everything with subscription and version 2, everything but server access and AI features?
I don't think most users realize how much Logos 10 already depends on Logos servers, and the associated costs of maintaining that. So, what features would we lose in the no server version?
I see the problem is as I see it, is that Logos obviously needs a consistent cash flow, Bob owned Logos with no debt, new owner has debt and needs to recoup his investment and keep the doors open.
If the old model was financially sustainable, I believe Logos would have Kept it.
The cost of Bob's long ago promise to offer free upgrades for life are now a huge cost to the new owners of Logos for continued customer support for users not making any purchases, which according to them, most of their users are "one and done" purchasers.
0 -
I'm having mixed feelings.
Titles impress people, obedience impresses God.
0 -
Bobby Terhune said:
...And I agree that there must be a better way to take care of faithful Logos users like you, I'm just not sure it can be done easily.
You may be right. It doesn't strike me as being that difficult, but I could be wrong about that.
Bobby Terhune said:1. Do they go back and offer two versions of Logos? version 1, everything with subscription and version 2, everything but server access and AI features?
They already offer differing levels of feature sets - and have for a long time - so that wouldn't be anything new. Just leave the new cloud-based features (including the translate feature) out of the lowest level feature set, and you're there.
Bobby Terhune said:I don't think most users realize how much Logos 10 already depends on Logos servers, and the associated costs of maintaining that. So, what features would we lose in the no server version?
Maybe so. I do appreciate the cloud syncing across different devices, and the ability to download the books I own whenever I buy a new device. But they've been doing that for years, so I doubt that's what's driving the concern about server capacity. Other than that, I don't believe I'm using any server-heavy services. I've only used translate a couple of times, and while it's nice enough, I'd be willing to give that up.
Bobby Terhune said:If the old model was financially sustainable, I believe Logos would have Kept it.
Maybe. I do wonder what it is that's making the old model unsustainable. There's been a lot of discussion about the need for a new revenue model to support the new cloud-based AI features that they're developing. Given that I don't actually want those features, that argument isn't as compelling for me as it might be for someone else. But I do have to wonder if an alternative approach might be more sustainable if they weren't chasing cutting-edge tech quite as hard as they seem to be.
Bobby Terhune said:The cost of Bob's long ago promise to offer free upgrades for life are now a huge cost to the new owners of Logos for continued customer support for users not making any purchases, which according to them, most of their users are "one and done" purchasers.
That's a fair point, though I never interpreted the promise to be that users would get future feature enhancements free for life - just that they would do the necessary maintenance updates to make sure the books were still usable as operating systems and hardware platforms evolved.
I'm not sure what they mean by "one and done" purchasers. If that truly means that most buy a package, and then never come back for additional resources or upgrades, then that should tell them something the usability and appeal of the product. My guess is that folks like that bought the product, were overwhelmed, gave up and moved on. I actually did that once, and it was five years before I tried Logos again. It's going to be very difficult to convert that kind of user to a subscription model.
If they're talking about people like me who're active customers, but haven't signed on to one of the current subscription plans, the question becomes "how many can they force to subscribe." It'll be interesting to see. For myself, generative AI is not a compelling use case.
Anyway, it's an interesting conversation. It's clearly in FaithLife's court. It'll be interesting to see how the rollout goes for them.
0 -
EastTN said:
I'm not sure what they mean by "one and done" purchasers. If that truly means that most buy a package, and then never come back for additional resources or upgrades, then that should tell them something the usability and appeal of the product. My guess is that folks like that bought the product, were overwhelmed, gave up and moved on. I actually did that once, and it was five years before I tried Logos again. It's going to be very difficult to convert that kind of user to a subscription model.
Related to this I've seen so many comments that maybe Logos needs to be a subscription to stay in business, but Logos isn't just an application. It's essentially a book store where Logos develops a product (book) once and sells it over and over basically forever. I would think that books give Logos another significant revenue stream beyond the application development side. Especially because most of us by expensive books and the the best books aren't usually in packages - they must be purchased separately. This is another reason I'm not sure the subscription model is the only way. Logos is a bit unique here compared to other software businesses where the software is the only revenue stream.
0 -
Well, they already search books you don't have and point you to the store page.
Legacy is another word for delayed obsolescence. It's like a "Traditional" service, they are just shifting their target market.
0 -
Doc B said:DMB said:
The new Logosian will want videos for learning, and then be presented with subscribe-only features examples. It won't be pretty.
Agreed. I think they are betting on the car-lease mentality...meaning a significant number of people can't do math and will lease a car despite the terrible long-term investment realities for most situations. This will indeed increase revenue for the company, though.
For those that are young enough to care nothing about long-term investment, I think the subscription model will make sense.
Well, they already search books you don't have and point you to the store page.
Legacy is another word for delayed obsolescence. It's like a "Traditional" service, they are just shifting their target market.
0 -
MWW said:
Have you tried using the AI search capabilities on your books?
I have not knowingly used the AI features. I am just not interested.
I have always upgraded my Logos program because of the excellent book sales included in the upgrades, not for features. I am happy with the features my current Logos program offers. I have at times waited over a year or so before upgrading.
I am just not interested in renting any books. But I am sure that many will be.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
With Bible software, I just want a good program whose features I can easily learn & stick with that. Changes should be simply add ons, so one can always do the things one originally could with the program. I think that the problem is that most software companies want to continue to exist, & not for the buyers to have a complete system which just keeps working. So they are every "upgrading" & trying to force you to go along. I participated in the Logos fine Community Pricing feature going back to 2014, making bids on many, many ebooks, particularly Loeb Classics, wanting to assemble access to all Greek literature for lexicographical studies. But eventually I found that eBooks I bought would not download to my Logos system, as Logos itself had "upgraded" & these modules which had been offered since 2014 (or earlier) once they were fulfllled would not download to one's Logos program. ONe had to upgrade Logos to get them, though one had bought them. But since Logos "upgraded," now the upgrade would not download to my computer without my buying a newer computer! Operating Systems upgrade & the upgrades won't work on computers past some date. So Logos was forcing me to upgrade Logos, upgrade my Mac OS, & buy a newer computer. Of course Apple is in on it: You buy a computer, but eventually you can't use it on the internet any more or YouTube won't work with it. I look forward to a day when I can get all my Community Priced Loeb classics, have them in a workable computer with a workable Logos edition, & then stop there with Logos & just work offline with my existing computer until the Rapture!
0 -
THEODORE VANCE said:
I look forward to a day when I can get all my Community Priced Loeb classics, have them in a workable computer with a workable Logos edition, & then stop there with Logos & just work offline with my existing computer until the Rapture!
Then you came the right place, because I have great news, you can do that today. I am assuming your Loeb classics are actually produced and you have purchased them.
The newest Logos works great, even on a fairly old machine. I have a 14-year-old Asus ROG that hums along quite well with the latest Logos.
THEODORE VANCE said:With Bible software, I just want a good program whose features I can easily learn & stick with that.
The latest Logos truly is the best. Unless you are an ancient Libby fan--there are still a few (at least one--I won't say who) holdouts for that being best, but otherwise, go for the newest and best. Sure, it gradually improves over time. I complain about that (sadly) but shouldn't. It really is getting better. As in a LOT better. Try it and let us know what you think,
THEODORE VANCE said:ONe had to upgrade Logos to get them, though one had bought them.
I am pretty sure that all community priced product licenses will work on any reasonably new version of Logos. If not, give Logos Customer service a call. I just called them a couple days ago and some really friendly guy, Jack, gave me great assistance. He fixed my problem. I bet he can fix yours.
THEODORE VANCE said:Operating Systems upgrade & the upgrades won't work on computers past some date.
Yeah...that is a good thing though. Security risk these days is awful. Using an outdated, unsafe computer not only puts you at risk, but puts everyone else at higher risk too--if you spread something bad. At some point, just get a new computer. I think $500 could get you something that will run Logos acceptably for a few years, but maybe spend a little more. Wish I could just give you one of mine, but that isn't practical.
0 -
GaoLu said:
Unless you are an ancient Libby fan--there are still a few (at least one--I won't say who) holdouts for that being best, but otherwise, go for the newest and best.
I'm glad to hear there's more than me! Reading Bradley's comment this AM about 2 versions of Logos (stuck-in-mud-version, and subscription version), Libby has far fewer bugs than the current Logos. (I might point out your ASUS would probably burn up, Libby is so fast ... still.)
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
I remember writing programs whereby we had to be very careful as to how much memory resources we used. Then I remember the first 10 MEG disk my department got. We thought we had hit the mother load and I thought how in the world would anyone write programs to use all that storage. Computers had 8 bit and 16 bit registers then.
Now I I have a 6 GIG SSD... computers have 256 and bigger bit registers and I'm thinking the same thing.
Programs have an unrealistic way of outgrowing computers capabilities. [8-|]
xn = Christan man=man -- Acts 11:26 "....and the disciples were first called Christians in Antioch".
Barney Fife is my hero! He only uses an abacus with 14 rows!
0 -
xnman said:
Programs have an unrealistic way of outgrowing computers capabilities.
Yesterday, I went hiking with my new shiny Apple watch and no iPhone. I had it running an exercise app pulling GPS and calc'ing altitude, etc. Plus running Audible to my AirPods (the bluetooth not even sneezing). Plus showing me new emails and texts coming in. I was amazed. And the battery wasn't even budging.
What's next?!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
To answer your question Yes. Run the search a collection of books of theological persuasion x and get a summary based on that persuasion, run a search on books you trust to get a summary based on the books you trust. When i read books I trust I make my own interpretive ‘summary’ of what they are saying, and you would do the same, whether we realize it or not. The summary in Logos provides links to its sources so you can go back and check for yourself. The summary is not a condensed book,
There is no hidden agenda in the summary, no one behind the curtain trying to change or confuse your beliefs, nothing to be feared at all, you are in control of the search process, just as you always have been with Logos, You can take or leave the summary, you can turn it off if you want.
Mike let me finish with saying I’m not trying to get you to change your mind about subscribing. That’s your personal choice which I respect. But having not seemingly used the Ai search for yourself, correct me if I am wrong, and Im just trying to clarify for youThe summary is not a condensed book, it tells you exactly where it came from in your Logos Library, anyone else reading this that it’s something a bit different to that thought. You have control over which books you are searching, know exactly where the summary comes from and can even turn it off if you don’t want to use it. It’s simply a tool to help you dig into more books in a shorter time period than you could do so on your own.
Mike Childs said:
And I am the just opposite of you.
Any summary will be interpretive. I don't like condensed books. Summaries have no appeal to me. Is there going to be an Arminian AI, a Calvinist AI, a Pentecostal AI?
One of the reasons that I went to seminary was so that I would know which resources to trust.
0 -
Simon’s Brother said:
There is no hidden agenda in the summary, no one behind the curtain trying to change or confuse your beliefs,
I'm not Mike, of course. Though I agree with his points.
But I disagree on 'hidden agendas' ... they're inherent for each author. Normally, we say 'perspective' or 'traditions' or similar ... natural to each author. And through long study, one detects. For me, Hegesippus, today. An AI summary might detect his perspective (or repeat someone's opinion) ... normally they won't. More often they're tuned to maximize user usage (similar to search engines).
A century ago, books came with fronting summaries, often in the form of outlines. We're back.
Personally, I would have wished FL would have spent more time on search result presentation. This AM I was looking at the above Hegesippus. 'All' had a bunch of stuff ... I couldn't detect what the sort was ... some 'cards' every now and then. Frequency wasn't a criteria. I switched to 'Book' and things didn't improve a lot.
But we've hit the end of the line and the final stop.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
DMB said:
Libby has far fewer bugs than the current Logos.
I wasn't a Libby fan but I am a misleading statistics exposure fan. Should this be a rate measurement not a raw number measurement? [8-|] I'm quite sure your statement is accurate, less so that it is meaningful ...[:#]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
MJ. Smith said:
I'm quite sure your statement is accurate, less so that it is meaningful ...
Well, my statement was 'honestly' misleading. I can't remember ANY bugs in Libby. But in the interest of understating, I granted Libby some bugs 'somewhere'.
Your comment, however, should not have come from your tapping fingers (smiling). You, of all people (your earlier experiences), should know that bugs are in the eye of the beholder (not amenable to 'rate measurement'). For developers, it's a matter of risk (customers, internal or external) vs cost (literal or diversionary), For customers, it's encounters ... frustrations, error-impacts, and spending patterns.
Mark said (but didn't promise) one of the objectives this year would be to reduce the old errors visa viz the stuck-in-the-mud version (and the subscription version as well). I just might have my doubts, since they're so easy to find.
Added: I just noticed TOC entries now have popups working, when the TOC panel is narrow. The missing TOC positioning at resource opening remains (used to work). And the right-click panel, left-entries, when lengthy still have missing popups (with the selection text removed in the right top column, after its advantage was mentioned). One wonders exactly what they do with their time each day. Bugs come, go, and then come back.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
DMB said:
You, of all people (your earlier experiences), should know that bugs are in the eye of the beholder (not amenable to 'rate measurement'). For developers, it's a matter of risk (customers, internal or external) vs cost (literal or diversionary), For customers, it's encounters ... frustrations, error-impacts, and spending patterns.
[Y] [:D]
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
DMB said:Simon’s Brother said:
There is no hidden agenda in the summary, no one behind the curtain trying to change or confuse your beliefs,
I'm not Mike, of course. Though I agree with his points.
But I disagree on 'hidden agendas' ... they're inherent for each author. Normally, we say 'perspective' or 'traditions' or similar ... natural to each author. And through long study, one detects. For me, Hegesippus, today. An AI su
Denise you are missing the point by a long shot, in fact you have landed in the sand bunker and not on the green, let alone scoring a hole in one.
You are responding based on your agenda, which serves to spread the confusion about AI rather than help user understand how to get the best out of it. which is what I was attempting to get people to think about. Don't run an 'All Search' but run an 'AI' search on a collection of books you trust, as Mike put it.
Is it perfect yet? No, nobody has said that not even Faithlife. AI search summaries are not meant to replace people thinking for themselves, they provide links back to the source of the summary so the user can read it in context and make their own interpretive decision as to whether the summary make sense and is valuable or not. But I have not read a search summary that is not based on what is written in the book and on only one occasion did I find it get the context a little bit wrong - but I did my due diligence and checked the source and the context. Something any user of AI should be doing. It is a tool and too often a bad worker will blame the tool when the issues is they have not understood how to use the tool or used it incorrectly, in a way it was not intended to be used.I hope to they spend more time in the future on search result presentation and a whole lot more. You already know what an 'All' search will present, you are intelligent enough to sift through the various cards and results from books you don't own. In fact, the ALL search takes us back to a feature of Libby that users decried was a complete mis-hit when it was removed with the end of Logos Series X and the introduction of the current Logos line of Logos Software, maybe we should call it Logos Gen Z. Libby allowed us to download files for books we didn't have a license for and search those books. All search allows this one again allows us to get search results from books we don't own - and you don't have to download the files, Some will cry it's a bogey shot, just FL just advertising but it is meant as an aid to the person doing genuine in-depth research on topic to see what other resources are out there that might present a view that backs up their argument or a view they want to critique or simply want to present as a contrast on the range of views of a topic.
Denise please continue to provide relevant valid criticism back-ed up by actual examples with screen shots preferably when it comes to AI searches because you have valuable insights to offer but don't offer rhetoric that anybody can come up with who has an agenda that is simply to bag it by painting a negative picture, a picture that feeds fear based on misunderstanding of what the Logos AI tools are and how they should be used correctly.
I was highly skeptical that AI could offer any value to Logos Bible Software when people first started talking about the topic and didn't want to see introduced. I admit I was wrong and now see it as a positive step that can only get better as it has time to mature and helpful feedback is provide to FL on how to improve it.
0 -
DMB said:
This AM I was looking at the above Hegesippus. 'All' had a bunch of stuff ... I couldn't detect what the sort was ... some 'cards' every now and then. Frequency wasn't a criteria.
If you were a beta tester you would know many people fought for some order in the all search results. Logos deliberately left it random.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
0 -
MJ. Smith said:
If you were a beta tester you would know many people fought for some order in the all search results. Logos deliberately left it random.
One big reason I'm not. But I do appreciate you, and Dave and Graham's gumption for punishment.
I really don't understand their design philosophy. They really like 'pretty'. But not ease of learning. Not efficiency/quickness. I assume somewhere between lazy quiet afternoons in Bellingham, and the image of a pastor slowly reaching for his (or her) mouse to select an unremembered menu, the design goes forward.
After the 'All' results, I closed the tab. I assume it'll be frozen in time for us stuck-in-the-mud users.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0 -
scooter said:
As long as one doesn't hike and read at the same time. Could be enervating!!!
Actually, that's why I got the watch. During the pandemic I thought I'd be tremendously smart and go hiking. Open air, no putting others at risk, and so on. Then, I twisted my ankle. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Other hikers luckily showed up ... called emergency services for me ... and then I ended doing the opposite of my goal ... the gracious fire dept folks picked me up, carried me out, and dumped me at my home (at my request ... no hospital!!).
So now, a phone on my wrist at all times. Even home alone. Woof, woof.
Added: At the Apple store, a younger lady helped me set my watch up. She asked why I got it. I told her, the phone. Her expression showed her youth. FL has a similar problem ... communicating thru videos that are not easy to understand.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
0
