Official: Why did(n't) you get a Logos subscription?
Comments
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I'm in the *reluctant* #1 category...Logos Max.
It felt like it was at gunpoint at first, but after doing a cost analysis comparing what I'd spent when L10, 9, 8, and 7 rolled out, I decided I'd spend as much as a 2-year Max scrip would cost me. The only reason I could think of to not subscribe was to be stubborn, and that hurts me and would be irrational.
I'm a #4 long term. The rollout has featured very little new stuff for all the hype. (Yes, I do like the dynamic TB.) I'm patient...I'll give you two years for the programmers to cash the check the marketing folks wrote.
I will say, if in 2026 the price increases substantially or the promised features don't appear, you'll lose me and probably a significant number of reluctant folks like me. Logos has created a lot of bad will amongst long-term customers with this change. You can't just clear the bar on this one; you are going to have to raise it a bit and then clear it to get back in the good graces of some of us old folks. Getting there is possible, and many of us will eat some crow if that happens. (I hope I do!) But falling short is also possible and it won't be a good look for the company or the good folks who work there if that bar ends up on the mat with the software.
Eating a steady diet of government cheese, and living in a van down by the river.
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1. Yes, I subscribed shortly after the plan was released
Reason - I have used Logos since version 2 (about 1995-96 I think) and have always been pleased with their upgrades. Therefore, I am going to try this new subscription model for now and see if it really works. So far I have been fairly pleased with what I see. The changes are taking a bit of re-learning, but they have not prevented me from using the software as effectively and efficiently as I had been able to do in version 10.
I AM however skeptical about the move by virtually every software company toward a subscription model. As I shared in another post on another site, I fear this may be just another opportunity to gouge money out of users. I am, however, going to give Logos a chance to prove they are not like those other software companies. I will see if they keep their promise that we can continue to use what we have whether we continue our subscription or not. I don't plan to cancel my subscription, but I'm leaving my options open.
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Amen and Amen
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Doc B said:
The only reason I could think of to not subscribe was to be stubborn, and that hurts me and would be irrational.
I'm sure each of us not subscribing has their own reasoning and would have to decide whether it hurts or benefits us as users...
I can think of two reasons that I even consider subscribing:
1 - I do like new features
2 - While I still prefer actual purchasing as an option, the fact that Logos tried to meet half way with the LFL made me consider given them ONE chance to impress me with it.
A few Reasons why I won't subscribe:
1. As a L10 FFS owner, I really see little in way of new features that interest me.... The AI stuff isn't what I'm looking for.... Instant Dark/Light? I could care less.... Dynamic Toolbar - no thanks!, Bible Study Builder - may have potential, though I already have my templates for that, Sermon Features on Android - see point 2
2. I gave up on Sermon Features with Logos after they took away the Sermon File Addin... The original replacement required users to change their templates to use and as the Sermon Features have grown, the lack of Android access prevented me from bothering with it at all.... So why is the gain of Sermon Tools on Android a negative for me??? When has Feature Parity ever been locked behind a paywall? I could be wrong and have asked a few times on the Forums with no response or examples of a user being charged for Feature Parity.... Were Mac or iOS users ever charged for access to Features that were owned if they would have access to if they were using Windows? I don't recall that happening, again I could be wrong.... However, I own the Sermon Features and I have access on Windows, Mac if I chose to buy a Mac and iOS if I were to use an iPad - why do I have to pay for Feature Parity?
3. With the advent of the Subscription Model - I can no longer honestly recommend the product - so do I want to promote something I disagree with by purchasing? I do not like the fact that New Users or Users who never bought the L10 FFS are left without if for any reason they have to cancel their subscription.... The thought that a user could pay for 10 years and have a need to cancel.... Then lose the features is not something that I can endorse.... While it would not effect me personally, that is just not something I could recommend.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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1. I am a current annual subscriber, waiting for the opportunity to be a two-year subscriber.
If the subscription model had not been introduced, I would likely have upgraded to each new version of Logos anyway. The subscription model provides the opportunity to get new features on a regular 6-week cycle and even earlier if I decide something is worth using while in beta and not have to work through a year of changes with each major upgrade. The cadence should also help with quicker-to-see refinement of features that need tweaked after initial release.
Windows 11 & macOS 15 (Logos Pro) | iOS 18 (Logos Mobile Beta)
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Yes, I subscribed to premium and taking the second year discount. So, I got two years for the price that a typical logos major update has cost me in the past. So I think I am good for now.
I am not happy about subscriptions, any of them, but the business model has been proven over the years as more and more companies jump on the band wagon whether it is music, movies, shows, etc. I am sure some have failed however.
The proof will be in a year or two and how many of us renew. Time will tell. For giggles I bought a entry level package of the "other" bible software system as I wanted to compare and contrast for the fun of it.
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I should add that while I opted for Max (monthly, not two years), I am extremely disappointed with the Verbum libraries this time.
WIN 11 i7 9750H, RTX 2060, 16GB RAM, 1TB SSD | iPad Air 3
Verbum Max0 -
I subscribed as a person who sees value in the software and hopes this will enable more polishing and improving of existing features and not just endless new, but not always particular useful or finished ones. I want existing features that work really well over lots of new ones that are half done and I think a subscription may help enable this.
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No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it.
I hate the subscription model. Logos advertises it as making their software more affordable. That’s untrue. They went to a subscription model to generate more revenue. Paying a subscription month after month and year after year adds up. The most expensive Bible software company became more expensive.
The new features are not worth a subscription to me. I want to purchase new base packages. But Logos should not require a subscription. Until they drop the subscription requirement, I no longer recommend the company.http://www.TrinityExamined.com
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1.) Yes I have subscribed.
2.) I want to keep up with the latest enhancements.
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I subscribed to get the latest features, I would not have done this without the fallback license. I really do want to own what I buy. I have a number of software purchases which have become obsolete as companies go out of business etc and keeping my data matters to me. I worry a lot about the DRM in Logos.
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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I'm a subscriber, mainly for new features and to buy packages, but, frankly, what's been included so far in the software update ranges from underwhelming ("No-restart Dark Mode?" Really?) to truly useless (the Dynamic Toolbar's added layers to get to needed functions).
If I had my druthers, I'd either opt for the old two-year purchase program, or simply ignore the subscription until there are features worth buying (AI is clever, but the answers are pretty shallow; I can do better researching on my own).
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
- Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?
- Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
- No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
- No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
- No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
- No, and I plan not to get it
- What's the primary reason for your decision?
#5. Not planning on getting it.
For the first time since 1995 I see absolutely no feature or capability in the new Logos version to cause me to want to purchase/subscribe to it. That has never before happened. I even watched the entire hour long demo of the features by MPSeminars and still see nothing that gets me the least bit interested. I generally prefer to not subscribe to software, but I do have several subscriptions to other software apps because they meet needs. In this case, Logos has nothing that would cause me to want to subscribe.
One strong reason holding me back is Logos' refusal to allow its mobile apps to permit the larger text sizes on my iPad which Apple, Kindle, and many other reading apps permit. Logos has chosen to lock the text size at a level too small for me to consider further investment in things I will not be able to use on my iPad. Your user base is aging, and I feel this is extremely short sighted of Logos. I have made several forum posts about this and Logos has not responded in any way, and YES I know how to use the settings inside the app to make the text larger. It still is substantially smaller than Apple and Kindle reading apps.
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1. Yes, I am a current Max subscriber.
I subscribed because I see significant value:
- all the latest features
- access to 2025 Libraries
- 5% purchase discount
- 5% end-of-year reward
I plan to switch to Pro next month since Max currently provides access to just 1 additional book that I don't already own. When available, I plan to switch to the 2-year plan.
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I waited for the Verbum launch and I'm glad I did--now that I've seen what is on offer, I'm not planning on subscribing. Logos seems to have forgotten about Verbum in recent months, and consequently, so have I.
- Unless there is a verbum user who can correct me, it seems as though the Logos development team are using the homily builder tool as a primary benefit of the subscription, but I see no evidence that this tool has undergone the changes I recommended last summer to make it useful for Catholics. I still don't see anything in these tools that recognize that Catholic homilies take liturgy as their starting point.
- I haven't seen a verbum staff member interact on the forums in months (then again, I am rarely here, so I could easily have just missed them), so I'm not even sure if there are any verbum staff members left on the Logos team. (No blog post to mention the launch of subscription? No marketing push to advertise to Verbum users? Verbum's launch gets a "soft" launch and is delayed inexplicably for 24, then an additional 4, hours? Something doesn't smell right here.)
- Even if they are impressive in general, the 2025 Verbum libraries are not for me--the Verbum catalog is still missing a ton of the kinds of books I would like for ministry and academic research. Better luck next year I guess.
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My husband has a subscription.
I'll have to pass.
Rob
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Br Damien-Joseph OSB said:
but I see no evidence that this tool has undergone the changes I recommended last summer
I also have been disappointed that Logos continues to ignore the majority of Christians in their approach. I was told that they were talking with a group including Catholics but I have not seen any evidence that they understand the needs of liturgical and liberal churches.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I’m an early access subscriber and current subscriber. I subscribed because the price was right for the Pro subscription since I own the full feature set for L10 and previous versions.
DAL
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Hello! I'm a new user of the Logos program. It was recommended to me by my former college professor. I apologize if I make any mistakes, as English is not my first language. In a short period, I spent all my spare money purchasing Logos 10 and the book collections. I believe this is the best investment I’ve made in the past few years. I’m grateful to the developers for creating this program and for continuing to improve it.
I bought the Max subscription for two years because:
- I want access to all the program's additional features.
- The 5% discount allows me to save more money than I spent on the subscription.
- I want to support the developers so they have the resources to keep working in the future.
I want to be honest – I’m really upset that, in the future, the developers plan to take away the ability to buy new releases of the program. I’m not sure I would have spent so much money if I had known this earlier. In my opinion, a good solution would be to keep the option to receive program updates every two years, even if it costs more than just the subscription. Those who like the program will still continue subscribing because many users, like me, enjoy Logos. Additionally, the extra discount is very beneficial if someone buys books. Of course, I don’t want to end up with only an old version of the program after 10 years of subscriptions, if for any reason I can’t renew the subscription.
For this reason, I’m hesitant to recommend Logos to my friends just yet. I hope the developers will understand the concerns of their customers and make the right decision.
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I’m in boat number two…I gave the subscription a shot via the free trial, despite my skepticism of it, but didn’t see a reason to keep it. I do not find any of the AI features useful at all, and since the majority of new features (when compared to someone who has a L10 full feature set) are centered around the AI features, there really wasn’t much of interest to me in the new version (I found the dynamic toolbar and help features to not be useful either).
I would really need Logos to come up with a valuable new set of features, such as the much requested improving of the personal book builder and accessing personal books on mobile devices, in order to get me to consider a subscription going forward.
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Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?
1. Yes, I'm a current two-year subscriber (Pro)
Initially, I had some concerns about how AI would be implemented, but I'm impressed now with it's capabilities and find it very useful for research, etc. I also like the new dynamic toolbar, but I realize it's not to everyone's taste.
Overall, I like the included books, features and capabilities of the subscription model and I look forward to new content and features in the future. I already have a sizeable legacy library plus Logos 10, but I find the additional books and features of the subscription model a great help.
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I have subscribed to Logos Max. I am satisfied with it. I see nothing wrong with everything that has been done and I am optimistic about the future.
Blessings in Christ.
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Anatolii Tsoniev said:
I’m really upset that, in the future, the developers plan to take away the ability to buy new releases of the program.
This is strange! Where did you get this information? This will never happen to continuous subscribers.
Blessings in Christ.
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Mark,
I just pre-ordered some new pre-pub books but did not receive an additional 5% discount.
Will the discount not apply to pre-pubs or is this something that needs to be tweaked on the backend?
Or will it be applied at the time I am charged?
I just want to be clear how things are going to work.
Thanks.
Steve
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Steven MacDonald said:
I just pre-ordered some new pre-pub books but did not receive an additional 5% discount.
https://www.logos.com/promo-code-exceptions (last line)
And earlier:
Mark Barnes (Logos):We've previously announced that every subscriber will receive a 5% discount storewide. This discount applies to everything in our store. The only exceptions are subscriptions, credit purchases (like Book Cache and gift cards), bulk purchases, and Pre-Pub and pre-order titles."If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:Steven MacDonald said:
I just pre-ordered some new pre-pub books but did not receive an additional 5% discount.
https://www.logos.com/promo-code-exceptions (last line)
And earlier:
Mark Barnes (Logos): We've previously announced that every subscriber will receive a 5% discount storewide. This discount applies to everything in our store. The only exceptions are subscriptions, credit purchases (like Book Cache and gift cards), bulk purchases, and Pre-Pub and pre-order titles.Thanks for clarifying. It's hard to keep on top of things :-)
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Tes, my understanding is the same as Anatolii's.Tes said:Anatolii Tsoniev said:I’m really upset that, in the future, the developers plan to take away the ability to buy new releases of the program.
This is strange! Where did you get this information? This will never happen to continuous subscribers.
I.e. new customers will only have the subscription option... no option to buy feature sets. Also, the only features related "purchase" promise I've seen for L10 FFS owners, is the LFL at the end of the first two years of subscription, which will leave them owning the non-online and non-AI features implemented between Oct. 2024 and Oct. 2026. Even for them, I see no promise such an offer will continue to be available after the first two years.
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Rick Ausdahl said:
I.e. new customers will only have the subscription option... no option to buy feature sets. Also, the only features related "purchase" promise I've seen for L10 FFS owners, is the LFL at the end of the first two years of subscription, which will leave them owning the non-online and non-AI features implemented between Oct. 2024 and Oct. 2026. Even for them, I see no promise such an offer will continue to be available after the first two years.
It is interesting to visualize the Logosian future.
- A subscriber for many years (let's say it's 2029) will get 'popped' back to the 2024 engine unless they keep paying-up. And 2024 ... or is that really 2018 or 2014 (feature-wise ... no promises there)? Hard to say. Long-cold winters for subscribers not paying-up.
- Those subscription discounts are only for the old L10 buyers ... and they do still go up, up, up ... just not as much as the new subscriber numbers going up.
- And the poor new subscribers with no L10 discounts. Poor puppies, both subscribing thru the nose, and then discovering their lost features if they stop.
- And for me (!) ... a 2 year subscription would force the crazy tool menu onto my Verbum. Oh my! I could never escape it! Could I wake up from the nightmare (just joking)?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
We want to ensure that Logos meets the needs of everyone who wants to study the Bible. To help us make sure we're doing that as effectively as possible, would you take a minute to answer these two questions?
- Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?
- Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
- No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
- No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
- No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
- No, and I plan not to get it
- What's the primary reason for your decision?
Please be honest. It's important to us that we understand how well (or not!) we're meeting your needs, so we want to understand what you really think.
Thanks!
I'll be honest. I don't use Logos enough, in my opinion, to justify paying a subscription. I fire up Logos once, maybe twice a week on my laptop, and almost daily on my phone. I'm pleased with what features I have with Logos. If I need a new book, I usually buy it and that's it.
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I have subscribed to the new version, so I'm a current (paid) subscriber - at the Premium level, having owned all features of Logos 10 through purchase of various Platinum Libraries prior to October.
The primary reason for my decision was to stay current on software features. AI was not a significant factor, although I am exploring some of the AI features as I have time and interest.
I take it there are aspects of Logos that I own from the pre-subscription period that will be frozen because updates to them are covered only by the Pro and Max subscription levels. But I'm just an on-my-own (as in retired, not in school) student of the Bible, so I see myself as a good fit for the Premium subscription level.
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I am the most reluctant subscriber in Logos history, But I did it. Because I use the translation tool so much preparing to teach in foreign languages (only two that I am semi-proficient in). It helps enough to be worth it.
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#5. Never will subscribe. I've been a Logos user since the Libronix days. Like others I have been to numerous Camp Logos Seminars and have subscribed to MP Seminars for years. They are the only software related subscription I have, or intend to have. I, like many other long time Logos users am retired on a fixed income. I use Logos regularly for my reading, personal study, and for teaching prep. I have always upgraded to the new versions because they offered new features that were actually useful for my studies. And I knew that if anything happened with the way Logos operated, or I simply could no longer afford to upgrade, I would actually still own my resources and would still be able to use Logos to help me grow and teach others. I am very thankful that I never fell for the subscription model or else that would not now be the case. My fears have come to fruition.
I have encouraged many others over the years to invest in Logos, but that has come to an end. I can't in good conscience encourage others to invest in something this expensive without knowing what they will have access to in the future. That is poor stewardship in my opinion. I am extremely disappointed that Logos has taken this turn without the option for long time loyal customers to continue using updated software in the same way that was used to build the company to where it is today.
I am, however, grateful for the years in which I have had the opportunity to gradually invest over time to build the resource library I now own. Logos has been extremely helpful in my own spiritual growth and I am thankful for the way Bob and others made such in-depth study available to non-seminarians! I fear they will not benefit others in the future to the same degree. I pray I am wrong.
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Bruce Smith said:
I am extremely disappointed that Logos has taken this turn without the option for long time loyal customers to continue using updated software in the same way that was used to build the company to where it is today.
Even for new customers too!
Χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν, ἡ ἐλπὶς τῆς δόξης·
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Bruce Smith said:
#5. Never will subscribe. I've been a Logos user since the Libronix days. Like others I have been to numerous Camp Logos Seminars and have subscribed to MP Seminars for years. They are the only software related subscription I have, or intend to have. I, like many other long time Logos users am retired on a fixed income. I use Logos regularly for my reading, personal study, and for teaching prep. I have always upgraded to the new versions because they offered new features that were actually useful for my studies. And I knew that if anything happened with the way Logos operated, or I simply could no longer afford to upgrade, I would actually still own my resources and would still be able to use Logos to help me grow and teach others. I am very thankful that I never fell for the subscription model or else that would not now be the case. My fears have come to fruition.
I have encouraged many others over the years to invest in Logos, but that has come to an end. I can't in good conscience encourage others to invest in something this expensive without knowing what they will have access to in the future. That is poor stewardship in my opinion. I am extremely disappointed that Logos has taken this turn without the option for long time loyal customers to continue using updated software in the same way that was used to build the company to where it is today.
I am, however, grateful for the years in which I have had the opportunity to gradually invest over time to build the resource library I now own. Logos has been extremely helpful in my own spiritual growth and I am thankful for the way Bob and others made such in-depth study available to non-seminarians! I fear they will not benefit others in the future to the same degree. I pray I am wrong.
I replied earlier in the thread. I just wish I'd said it as well as Bruce, Well stated and in a kinder way than I did.
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Bruce Smith said:
I have encouraged many others over the years to invest in Logos, but that has come to an end. I can't in good conscience encourage others to invest in something this expensive without knowing what they will have access to in the future. That is poor stewardship in my opinion.
Subscription gives a better glimpse of the future as new features can be introduced more regularly than the bi-annual updates (every two years) of the last decade or so e.g. every 6 weeks with the current schedule.
How do you conclude that subscription is "this expensive"?Bruce Smith said:I am extremely disappointed that Logos has taken this turn without the option for long time loyal customers to continue using updated software in the same way that was used to build the company to where it is today.
You are misinformed as "long time" users who choose not to subscribe will continue to receive software updates to maintain compatibility with operating systems as well as with new features/new books. And you will retain use of the features and books you purchased prior to the start of subscription (October 21, 2024).
Bruce Smith said:I am, however, grateful for the years in which I have had the opportunity to gradually invest over time to build the resource library I now own.
You lose nothing, and can continue to purchase books as required.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:Bruce Smith said:
I have encouraged many others over the years to invest in Logos, but that has come to an end. I can't in good conscience encourage others to invest in something this expensive without knowing what they will have access to in the future. That is poor stewardship in my opinion.
Subscription gives a better glimpse of the future as new features can be introduced more regularly than the bi-annual updates (every two years) of the last decade or so e.g. every 6 weeks with the current schedule.
How do you conclude that subscription is "this expensive"?Bruce Smith said:I am extremely disappointed that Logos has taken this turn without the option for long time loyal customers to continue using updated software in the same way that was used to build the company to where it is today.
You are misinformed as "long time" users who choose not to subscribe will continue to receive software updates to maintain compatibility with operating systems as well as with new features/new books. And you will retain use of the features and books you purchased prior to the start of subscription (October 21, 2024).
Bruce Smith said:I am, however, grateful for the years in which I have had the opportunity to gradually invest over time to build the resource library I now own.
You lose nothing, and can continue to purchase books as required.
I'm honestly tired of seeing the same points made by so many people that make them look like they haven't actually read up on the information regarding the subscriptions.
Pastor, Mt. Leonard Baptist Church, SBC
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Jonathan Bradley said:
I'm honestly tired of seeing the same points made by so many people that make them look like they haven't actually read up on the information regarding the subscriptions.
Then don't read subscription threads?
Mark Barnes started this thread with an invitation for people to share their honest thoughts. Obviously he knew (as should we all) that not every thought/opinion is going to be positive. Why tire yourself by reading threads such as this? There's no need.
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Aaron Hamilton said:
Mark Barnes started this thread with an invitation for people to share their honest thoughts. Obviously he knew (as should we all) that not every thought/opinion is going to be positive. Why tire yourself by reading threads such as this?
If I were to defend Jonathan, I would point to the difference between 50 people stating similar positions vs. 1 person posting the position 50 times. The former is of more use to Mark and, generally, more interesting to read. Before people jump on me, note that I posted a hypothetical precisely because a hypothetical is what I mean.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I could list a number of recurring annoying features in forum posts, but, this being the place for people to ask questions, these features are concomitant with forum life. I was, in a previous post, bemoaning the presence of petulant brats, and after many responses from thoughtful respondents I concluded the same about that.
I'm not saying it does not have an annoyance value. I guess I prefer the people who ask those questions over the petulant brats.
👁️ 👁️
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#1 --- Logos Pro
Reasons?
- Some FOMO, driving it I think. Discounted subscription rates also enticing.- As I'm a long-time Logosian ( nearly 30 years now), I've a substantial library, so I'm not a great target for the marketing department. I semi-regularly picked up the feature set of the last few Logos versions (and less regularly, a library package upgrade). I figured paying monthly for something I'd most likely purchase outright in two years' time isn't that onerous.
- I understand some of the economics behind the decision and am willing to a) give it shot, b) support a great company doing great work.
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After careful consideration I decided to respond to Dave's post. I have no desire to engage in a "back and forth" discussion. I don't believe that is the intent of this discussion. I am however, concerned that perhaps the tone of my post did not come through as I intended. I wasn't, nor am I now, irritated or angry. I was giving my honest opinion which had been solicited.
I realize that there are people who like the idea of faster feature releases through a subscription. That's not my opinion, but that's perfectly fine. I don't begrudge others their opinion just because it's not my own. They've had the option for subscription Logos for some time now. I didn't mean to imply that subscription options shouldn't be available, I just wish the old update options were still available.
If someone doesn't consider $480 (or even $ 360) expensive, then I'm happy for them. That's just not the world I live in.
As far as my being misinformed, that's entirely possible but I don't believe that to be the case. If we were still able to update the same way we used to, then I don't think we would be having this conversation.
I understand that I will still be able to use my purchased resources and they will not be lost. If I implied anything to the contrary I certainly didn't mean to. In fact, that was the point I was attempting to make. I'm very happy that I bought them.
I was not trying to be snarky or disingenuous in any way, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I truly am grateful for Bob and the entire Logos team for what they have created. I'm genuinely appreciative for the library I own. I am also very glad that I own those resources and features and didn't just rent them. I look forward to using them throughout my lifetime. But again, those are just my preferences. I understand that not everyone shares them. But they are well reasoned preferences, not misinformed ones.
My hope is that this explanation will be clarifying for my original post, and will not come across as contentious or argumentative. That is not my intent.
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Bruce Smith said:
I was not trying to be snarky or disingenuous in any way, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I truly am grateful for Bob and the entire Logos team for what they have created. I'm genuinely appreciative for the library I own. I am also very glad that I own those resources and features and didn't just rent them. I look forward to using them throughout my lifetime. But again, those are just my preferences. I understand that not everyone shares them. But they are well reasoned preferences, not misinformed ones.
My hope is that this explanation will be clarifying for my original post, and will not come across as contentious or argumentative. That is not my intent.
Bruce,
Than you for clarifying your position. I did feel you were misinformed, but certainly not contentious nor argumentative.
Bruce Smith said:I have no desire to engage in a "back and forth" discussion
And that was not the intention of my response as I was attempting to be factual had you genuinely been misinformed.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Mark Barnes (Logos) said:
We want to ensure that Logos meets the needs of everyone who wants to study the Bible. To help us make sure we're doing that as effectively as possible, would you take a minute to answer these two questions?
- Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?
- Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
- No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
- No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
- No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
- No, and I plan not to get it
- What's the primary reason for your decision?
Please be honest. It's important to us that we understand how well (or not!) we're meeting your needs, so we want to understand what you really think.
Thanks!
Yes, I'm a current subscriber. My primary reason is for the updates. I love to stay current about the technology I own, be it smartphone, laptop, T.V., etc. I'm that guy. I'm a tech nerd, so when it comes to studying the Bible I want the best. Logos supplies us with the best. You know that song, "I searched all over, and couldn't find nobody, nobody better, nobody better than YOU." That song is talking about our beloved savior Jesus Christ. Those words I can apply to searching for the best Bible software and I couldn't find none better than LOGOS Bible Software. I was a Wordsearch user until July of 2023. I know, I know Wordsearch was sold to LOGOS during the LOGOS 8 era. I'm am that person who is slow to change. When I did finally use LOGOS 10, I was like "I had this all this time and didn't know. This program is so powerful!!" I was excited with the announcement of the new features I subscribed to the beta version of the next LOGOS software. I loved the new smart search especially. Then the synopsis blew my mind. I use LOGOS to study in the words of THE WORD in the original languages. I used to be Muslim for twenty years of my life and they put emphasis on reading the Quran in Arabic. When I became Christian in 2012, I wanted to study the Bible through it's original language. When I opened LOGOS of the first time that July day in 2023 I knew I entered into another dimension of Bible study. The Bible Word Study feature is more than amazing. It helps me learn Hebrew and Greek. It gives me new insights of a word that could be translated better than what is translated in the Bible version I am studying from. What more can be said about LOGOS? For me it is a beautiful, wonderful, marvelous gift from our Heavenly Father God to me.
To my fellow LOGOS users who have not subscribed yet. I am asking you to at least try the free trial. I know this is another monthly or yearly bill and some of us might be in a bind. I can only suggest when it come to studying the Word of God, we can let something go once a month to add up for the payment of at least $10-$20 a month. Studying the Word of God and showing ourselves approved
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth." 2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)
Is the number one thing to some, if not all of us. I was deceived when I became Muslim, because I had lack of knowledge of the Word of God,
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children." Hosea 4:6 (NKJV)
When I became Christian by reading the Bible, I promised myself I wasn't going to be deceived again. I didn't want to be like our beloved mother Eve when she was deceived by the serpent.
"And the LORD God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?” The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”" Genesis 3:16 (NKJV)
I study my butt off to not be apart from our beloved Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. God has given us tools to use to understand His Word and He give ideas to innovators like the creators and makers of LOGOS to allows make it easier for us. We live in an era of technology. What worked in 1990 WILL NOT work in 2025 (technology wise). I don't want you, beloved brother and sister, to be left behind in the benefits the LORD God has given us through LOGOS Bible Study Software. If you need to pray about it, pray about it. If you need to research more, research more. If you need to see it for yourself, do that. I will even set up a zoom call between me and you in order for you to see it if you want to see it for yourself. I only want the best for you and what the subscription has for us the study the Word of God, I believe is the best for us and God knows best at the end of it all.
God bless you all my beautiful and loving brothers and sisters in Christ Jesus.1 -
Fred Holmes said:
To my fellow LOGOS users who have not subscribed yet....
Fred, this part of your response was not requested, so I ask that you and other users refrain from further comment as this is not a discussion thread.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Bruce Smith said:
If someone doesn't consider $480 (or even $ 360) expensive, then I'm happy for them. That's just not the world I live in.
I would simply like to point out that subscription prices range from $100/year (Premium) to $200/year (Max). Lower prices are available for those who have previously purchased feature packages.
Otherwise, great posts, Bruce. I think you're sharing a valuable perspective.
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Jonathan Bradley said:Dave Hooton said:Bruce Smith said:
I have encouraged many others over the years to invest in Logos, but that has come to an end. I can't in good conscience encourage others to invest in something this expensive without knowing what they will have access to in the future. That is poor stewardship in my opinion.
Subscription gives a better glimpse of the future as new features can be introduced more regularly than the bi-annual updates (every two years) of the last decade or so e.g. every 6 weeks with the current schedule.
How do you conclude that subscription is "this expensive"?Bruce Smith said:I am extremely disappointed that Logos has taken this turn without the option for long time loyal customers to continue using updated software in the same way that was used to build the company to where it is today.
You are misinformed as "long time" users who choose not to subscribe will continue to receive software updates to maintain compatibility with operating systems as well as with new features/new books. And you will retain use of the features and books you purchased prior to the start of subscription (October 21, 2024).
Bruce Smith said:I am, however, grateful for the years in which I have had the opportunity to gradually invest over time to build the resource library I now own.
You lose nothing, and can continue to purchase books as required.
I'm honestly tired of seeing the same points made by so many people that make them look like they haven't actually read up on the information regarding the subscriptions.
And some of us are tired of these types of posts..... Why does a person that doesn't support Logos decisions or views at all times have to be "misinformed" as Dave states in this quote??? Only Bruce can let us know what he really meant - but when I read his statement, I read a user that disagreed with having to subscribe to use updated software (New Features, etc) rather than being able to purchase the updates as we were able to for the life of the company....(I could be wrong, but doesn't Bruce deserve to be asked for clarity, rather than being scolded about being "misinformed" - which based on his response seems like he was NOT misinformed)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Antony Brennan said:
I could list a number of recurring annoying features in forum posts, but, this being the place for people to ask questions, these features are concomitant with forum life. I was, in a previous post, bemoaning the presence of petulant brats, and after many responses from thoughtful respondents I concluded the same about that.
I'm not saying it does not have an annoyance value. I guess I prefer the people who ask those questions over the petulant brats.
And how does labeling any user in the Forums "petulant brats" improve anything? If anything, that type of label should be checked against Forum Guidelines
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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MJ. Smith said:Aaron Hamilton said:
Mark Barnes started this thread with an invitation for people to share their honest thoughts. Obviously he knew (as should we all) that not every thought/opinion is going to be positive. Why tire yourself by reading threads such as this?
If I were to defend Jonathan, I would point to the difference between 50 people stating similar positions vs. 1 person posting the position 50 times. The former is of more use to Mark and, generally, more interesting to read. Before people jump on me, note that I posted a hypothetical precisely because a hypothetical is what I mean.
I have a question to your hypothetical - does the same hypothetical view apply to the same to positions of a positive review? Reason I ask, where are the complaints or negative labels for those users who post frequently about the positives of subscribing or the Dynamic Toolbar or is that acceptable because they are praising Logos?
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Dave Hooton said:Fred Holmes said:
To my fellow LOGOS users who have not subscribed yet....
Fred, this part of your response was not requested, so I ask that you and other users refrain from further comment as this is not a discussion thread.
While I may not agree with parts of Fred's post - why should he refrain from further comment? You've turned this into a discussion thread as much or more than Fred did with his answer to Mark's post.....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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1. Subscribed.
To mirror another user, I was at first skeptical, yet not dramatic.
As I began to listen to the explanations given for this move, I began to be more under.
When I learned that I can pay for two years upfront and then keep everything but the cloud based functions for life, I was sold.So far, I’m quite happy with it and am showing a friend everything on Wednesday who is likely to join up as well.
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