Official: Why did(n't) you get a Logos subscription?
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I subscribed to get the latest features, I would not have done this without the fallback license. I really do want to own what I buy. I have a number of software purchases which have become obsolete as companies go out of business etc and keeping my data matters to me. I worry a lot about the DRM in Logos.
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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I'm a subscriber, mainly for new features and to buy packages, but, frankly, what's been included so far in the software update ranges from underwhelming ("No-restart Dark Mode?" Really?) to truly useless (the Dynamic Toolbar's added layers to get to needed functions).
If I had my druthers, I'd either opt for the old two-year purchase program, or simply ignore the subscription until there are features worth buying (AI is clever, but the answers are pretty shallow; I can do better researching on my own).
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- Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?
- Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
- No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
- No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
- No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
- No, and I plan not to get it
- What's the primary reason for your decision?
#5. Not planning on getting it.
For the first time since 1995 I see absolutely no feature or capability in the new Logos version to cause me to want to purchase/subscribe to it. That has never before happened. I even watched the entire hour long demo of the features by MPSeminars and still see nothing that gets me the least bit interested. I generally prefer to not subscribe to software, but I do have several subscriptions to other software apps because they meet needs. In this case, Logos has nothing that would cause me to want to subscribe.
One strong reason holding me back is Logos' refusal to allow its mobile apps to permit the larger text sizes on my iPad which Apple, Kindle, and many other reading apps permit. Logos has chosen to lock the text size at a level too small for me to consider further investment in things I will not be able to use on my iPad. Your user base is aging, and I feel this is extremely short sighted of Logos. I have made several forum posts about this and Logos has not responded in any way, and YES I know how to use the settings inside the app to make the text larger. It still is substantially smaller than Apple and Kindle reading apps.
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1. Yes, I am a current Max subscriber.
I subscribed because I see significant value:
- all the latest features
- access to 2025 Libraries
- 5% purchase discount
- 5% end-of-year reward
I plan to switch to Pro next month since Max currently provides access to just 1 additional book that I don't already own. When available, I plan to switch to the 2-year plan.
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I waited for the Verbum launch and I'm glad I did--now that I've seen what is on offer, I'm not planning on subscribing. Logos seems to have forgotten about Verbum in recent months, and consequently, so have I.
- Unless there is a verbum user who can correct me, it seems as though the Logos development team are using the homily builder tool as a primary benefit of the subscription, but I see no evidence that this tool has undergone the changes I recommended last summer to make it useful for Catholics. I still don't see anything in these tools that recognize that Catholic homilies take liturgy as their starting point.
- I haven't seen a verbum staff member interact on the forums in months (then again, I am rarely here, so I could easily have just missed them), so I'm not even sure if there are any verbum staff members left on the Logos team. (No blog post to mention the launch of subscription? No marketing push to advertise to Verbum users? Verbum's launch gets a "soft" launch and is delayed inexplicably for 24, then an additional 4, hours? Something doesn't smell right here.)
- Even if they are impressive in general, the 2025 Verbum libraries are not for me--the Verbum catalog is still missing a ton of the kinds of books I would like for ministry and academic research. Better luck next year I guess.
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My husband has a subscription.
I'll have to pass.
Rob
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but I see no evidence that this tool has undergone the changes I recommended last summer
I also have been disappointed that Logos continues to ignore the majority of Christians in their approach. I was told that they were talking with a group including Catholics but I have not seen any evidence that they understand the needs of liturgical and liberal churches.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I’m an early access subscriber and current subscriber. I subscribed because the price was right for the Pro subscription since I own the full feature set for L10 and previous versions.
DAL
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Hello! I'm a new user of the Logos program. It was recommended to me by my former college professor. I apologize if I make any mistakes, as English is not my first language. In a short period, I spent all my spare money purchasing Logos 10 and the book collections. I believe this is the best investment I’ve made in the past few years. I’m grateful to the developers for creating this program and for continuing to improve it.
I bought the Max subscription for two years because:
- I want access to all the program's additional features.
- The 5% discount allows me to save more money than I spent on the subscription.
- I want to support the developers so they have the resources to keep working in the future.
I want to be honest – I’m really upset that, in the future, the developers plan to take away the ability to buy new releases of the program. I’m not sure I would have spent so much money if I had known this earlier. In my opinion, a good solution would be to keep the option to receive program updates every two years, even if it costs more than just the subscription. Those who like the program will still continue subscribing because many users, like me, enjoy Logos. Additionally, the extra discount is very beneficial if someone buys books. Of course, I don’t want to end up with only an old version of the program after 10 years of subscriptions, if for any reason I can’t renew the subscription.
For this reason, I’m hesitant to recommend Logos to my friends just yet. I hope the developers will understand the concerns of their customers and make the right decision.
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I’m in boat number two…I gave the subscription a shot via the free trial, despite my skepticism of it, but didn’t see a reason to keep it. I do not find any of the AI features useful at all, and since the majority of new features (when compared to someone who has a L10 full feature set) are centered around the AI features, there really wasn’t much of interest to me in the new version (I found the dynamic toolbar and help features to not be useful either).
I would really need Logos to come up with a valuable new set of features, such as the much requested improving of the personal book builder and accessing personal books on mobile devices, in order to get me to consider a subscription going forward.
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Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?
1. Yes, I'm a current two-year subscriber (Pro)
Initially, I had some concerns about how AI would be implemented, but I'm impressed now with it's capabilities and find it very useful for research, etc. I also like the new dynamic toolbar, but I realize it's not to everyone's taste.
Overall, I like the included books, features and capabilities of the subscription model and I look forward to new content and features in the future. I already have a sizeable legacy library plus Logos 10, but I find the additional books and features of the subscription model a great help.
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I have subscribed to Logos Max. I am satisfied with it. I see nothing wrong with everything that has been done and I am optimistic about the future.
Blessings in Christ.
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I’m really upset that, in the future, the developers plan to take away the ability to buy new releases of the program.
This is strange! Where did you get this information? This will never happen to continuous subscribers.
Blessings in Christ.
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Mark,
I just pre-ordered some new pre-pub books but did not receive an additional 5% discount.
Will the discount not apply to pre-pubs or is this something that needs to be tweaked on the backend?
Or will it be applied at the time I am charged?
I just want to be clear how things are going to work.
Thanks.
Steve
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I just pre-ordered some new pre-pub books but did not receive an additional 5% discount.
https://www.logos.com/promo-code-exceptions (last line)
And earlier:
Mark Barnes (Logos):We've previously announced that every subscriber will receive a 5% discount storewide. This discount applies to everything in our store. The only exceptions are subscriptions, credit purchases (like Book Cache and gift cards), bulk purchases, and Pre-Pub and pre-order titles."If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I just pre-ordered some new pre-pub books but did not receive an additional 5% discount.
https://www.logos.com/promo-code-exceptions (last line)
And earlier:
Mark Barnes (Logos): We've previously announced that every subscriber will receive a 5% discount storewide. This discount applies to everything in our store. The only exceptions are subscriptions, credit purchases (like Book Cache and gift cards), bulk purchases, and Pre-Pub and pre-order titles.Thanks for clarifying. It's hard to keep on top of things :-)
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Tes, my understanding is the same as Anatolii's.I’m really upset that, in the future, the developers plan to take away the ability to buy new releases of the program.
This is strange! Where did you get this information? This will never happen to continuous subscribers.
I.e. new customers will only have the subscription option... no option to buy feature sets. Also, the only features related "purchase" promise I've seen for L10 FFS owners, is the LFL at the end of the first two years of subscription, which will leave them owning the non-online and non-AI features implemented between Oct. 2024 and Oct. 2026. Even for them, I see no promise such an offer will continue to be available after the first two years.
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I.e. new customers will only have the subscription option... no option to buy feature sets. Also, the only features related "purchase" promise I've seen for L10 FFS owners, is the LFL at the end of the first two years of subscription, which will leave them owning the non-online and non-AI features implemented between Oct. 2024 and Oct. 2026. Even for them, I see no promise such an offer will continue to be available after the first two years.
It is interesting to visualize the Logosian future.
- A subscriber for many years (let's say it's 2029) will get 'popped' back to the 2024 engine unless they keep paying-up. And 2024 ... or is that really 2018 or 2014 (feature-wise ... no promises there)? Hard to say. Long-cold winters for subscribers not paying-up.
- Those subscription discounts are only for the old L10 buyers ... and they do still go up, up, up ... just not as much as the new subscriber numbers going up.
- And the poor new subscribers with no L10 discounts. Poor puppies, both subscribing thru the nose, and then discovering their lost features if they stop.
- And for me (!) ... a 2 year subscription would force the crazy tool menu onto my Verbum. Oh my! I could never escape it! Could I wake up from the nightmare (just joking)?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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We want to ensure that Logos meets the needs of everyone who wants to study the Bible. To help us make sure we're doing that as effectively as possible, would you take a minute to answer these two questions?
- Have you subscribed to the new version of Logos?
- Yes, I'm a current subscriber (or on the free trial)
- No, I tried it for a bit, but I didn't renew
- No, but I plan to get it reasonably soon
- No, and I'm undecided whether I'll get it
- No, and I plan not to get it
- What's the primary reason for your decision?
Please be honest. It's important to us that we understand how well (or not!) we're meeting your needs, so we want to understand what you really think.
Thanks!
I'll be honest. I don't use Logos enough, in my opinion, to justify paying a subscription. I fire up Logos once, maybe twice a week on my laptop, and almost daily on my phone. I'm pleased with what features I have with Logos. If I need a new book, I usually buy it and that's it.
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I have subscribed to the new version, so I'm a current (paid) subscriber - at the Premium level, having owned all features of Logos 10 through purchase of various Platinum Libraries prior to October.
The primary reason for my decision was to stay current on software features. AI was not a significant factor, although I am exploring some of the AI features as I have time and interest.
I take it there are aspects of Logos that I own from the pre-subscription period that will be frozen because updates to them are covered only by the Pro and Max subscription levels. But I'm just an on-my-own (as in retired, not in school) student of the Bible, so I see myself as a good fit for the Premium subscription level.
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I am the most reluctant subscriber in Logos history, But I did it. Because I use the translation tool so much preparing to teach in foreign languages (only two that I am semi-proficient in). It helps enough to be worth it.
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#5. Never will subscribe. I've been a Logos user since the Libronix days. Like others I have been to numerous Camp Logos Seminars and have subscribed to MP Seminars for years. They are the only software related subscription I have, or intend to have. I, like many other long time Logos users am retired on a fixed income. I use Logos regularly for my reading, personal study, and for teaching prep. I have always upgraded to the new versions because they offered new features that were actually useful for my studies. And I knew that if anything happened with the way Logos operated, or I simply could no longer afford to upgrade, I would actually still own my resources and would still be able to use Logos to help me grow and teach others. I am very thankful that I never fell for the subscription model or else that would not now be the case. My fears have come to fruition.
I have encouraged many others over the years to invest in Logos, but that has come to an end. I can't in good conscience encourage others to invest in something this expensive without knowing what they will have access to in the future. That is poor stewardship in my opinion. I am extremely disappointed that Logos has taken this turn without the option for long time loyal customers to continue using updated software in the same way that was used to build the company to where it is today.
I am, however, grateful for the years in which I have had the opportunity to gradually invest over time to build the resource library I now own. Logos has been extremely helpful in my own spiritual growth and I am thankful for the way Bob and others made such in-depth study available to non-seminarians! I fear they will not benefit others in the future to the same degree. I pray I am wrong.
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I am extremely disappointed that Logos has taken this turn without the option for long time loyal customers to continue using updated software in the same way that was used to build the company to where it is today.
Even for new customers too!
Χριστὸς ἐν ὑμῖν, ἡ ἐλπὶς τῆς δόξης·
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#5. Never will subscribe. I've been a Logos user since the Libronix days. Like others I have been to numerous Camp Logos Seminars and have subscribed to MP Seminars for years. They are the only software related subscription I have, or intend to have. I, like many other long time Logos users am retired on a fixed income. I use Logos regularly for my reading, personal study, and for teaching prep. I have always upgraded to the new versions because they offered new features that were actually useful for my studies. And I knew that if anything happened with the way Logos operated, or I simply could no longer afford to upgrade, I would actually still own my resources and would still be able to use Logos to help me grow and teach others. I am very thankful that I never fell for the subscription model or else that would not now be the case. My fears have come to fruition.
I have encouraged many others over the years to invest in Logos, but that has come to an end. I can't in good conscience encourage others to invest in something this expensive without knowing what they will have access to in the future. That is poor stewardship in my opinion. I am extremely disappointed that Logos has taken this turn without the option for long time loyal customers to continue using updated software in the same way that was used to build the company to where it is today.
I am, however, grateful for the years in which I have had the opportunity to gradually invest over time to build the resource library I now own. Logos has been extremely helpful in my own spiritual growth and I am thankful for the way Bob and others made such in-depth study available to non-seminarians! I fear they will not benefit others in the future to the same degree. I pray I am wrong.
I replied earlier in the thread. I just wish I'd said it as well as Bruce, Well stated and in a kinder way than I did.
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I have encouraged many others over the years to invest in Logos, but that has come to an end. I can't in good conscience encourage others to invest in something this expensive without knowing what they will have access to in the future. That is poor stewardship in my opinion.
Subscription gives a better glimpse of the future as new features can be introduced more regularly than the bi-annual updates (every two years) of the last decade or so e.g. every 6 weeks with the current schedule.
How do you conclude that subscription is "this expensive"?I am extremely disappointed that Logos has taken this turn without the option for long time loyal customers to continue using updated software in the same way that was used to build the company to where it is today.
You are misinformed as "long time" users who choose not to subscribe will continue to receive software updates to maintain compatibility with operating systems as well as with new features/new books. And you will retain use of the features and books you purchased prior to the start of subscription (October 21, 2024).
I am, however, grateful for the years in which I have had the opportunity to gradually invest over time to build the resource library I now own.
You lose nothing, and can continue to purchase books as required.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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I have encouraged many others over the years to invest in Logos, but that has come to an end. I can't in good conscience encourage others to invest in something this expensive without knowing what they will have access to in the future. That is poor stewardship in my opinion.
Subscription gives a better glimpse of the future as new features can be introduced more regularly than the bi-annual updates (every two years) of the last decade or so e.g. every 6 weeks with the current schedule.
How do you conclude that subscription is "this expensive"?I am extremely disappointed that Logos has taken this turn without the option for long time loyal customers to continue using updated software in the same way that was used to build the company to where it is today.
You are misinformed as "long time" users who choose not to subscribe will continue to receive software updates to maintain compatibility with operating systems as well as with new features/new books. And you will retain use of the features and books you purchased prior to the start of subscription (October 21, 2024).
I am, however, grateful for the years in which I have had the opportunity to gradually invest over time to build the resource library I now own.
You lose nothing, and can continue to purchase books as required.
I'm honestly tired of seeing the same points made by so many people that make them look like they haven't actually read up on the information regarding the subscriptions.
Pastor, Mt. Leonard Baptist Church, SBC
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I'm honestly tired of seeing the same points made by so many people that make them look like they haven't actually read up on the information regarding the subscriptions.
Then don't read subscription threads?
Mark Barnes started this thread with an invitation for people to share their honest thoughts. Obviously he knew (as should we all) that not every thought/opinion is going to be positive. Why tire yourself by reading threads such as this? There's no need.
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Mark Barnes started this thread with an invitation for people to share their honest thoughts. Obviously he knew (as should we all) that not every thought/opinion is going to be positive. Why tire yourself by reading threads such as this?
If I were to defend Jonathan, I would point to the difference between 50 people stating similar positions vs. 1 person posting the position 50 times. The former is of more use to Mark and, generally, more interesting to read. Before people jump on me, note that I posted a hypothetical precisely because a hypothetical is what I mean.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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I could list a number of recurring annoying features in forum posts, but, this being the place for people to ask questions, these features are concomitant with forum life. I was, in a previous post, bemoaning the presence of petulant brats, and after many responses from thoughtful respondents I concluded the same about that.
I'm not saying it does not have an annoyance value. I guess I prefer the people who ask those questions over the petulant brats.
👁️ 👁️
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#1 --- Logos Pro
Reasons?
- Some FOMO, driving it I think. Discounted subscription rates also enticing.- As I'm a long-time Logosian ( nearly 30 years now), I've a substantial library, so I'm not a great target for the marketing department. I semi-regularly picked up the feature set of the last few Logos versions (and less regularly, a library package upgrade). I figured paying monthly for something I'd most likely purchase outright in two years' time isn't that onerous.
- I understand some of the economics behind the decision and am willing to a) give it shot, b) support a great company doing great work.
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