Why are Logos 10 owners not eligible for the free trial?

Well said @Aaron Hamilton and as a L10 FFS Owner that was able to test the Free Trial during Early Access - what has changed that doesn't allow for a Free Trial after the release?

I guess it is another one of those "New Era" decisions that can be added to the pile of decisions that push money back across the table to the customer…. I'd think you would want as many active customers as possible as a business - but the New Era Logos seems to not have that mindset… How many potential Subscribers might they be losing, that own L10 FFS and would want to test one of the levels out before being locked into a non-refundable purchase of anywhere from a month to two years….???

I'm a Logos 10 owner and I got a free trial. It just ended.

I can't say there's anything I saw during the trial that got me excited, BUT… even so, I decided to let Faithlife bill me for a two-year subscription. I decided to give it a try and see what the real development benefits would be over the next two years, see how many of the new features I'd actually own at the end of that time, and then, see if that LFL would be offered again for the next two years, before deciding whether to drop my subscription.

I understand some have gotten a free trial, but the official stance seems to be that this is not the case currently or going forward. I'm at a loss as to why, which is why some official clarity would be wonderful.

Hopefully they respond to your question for clarity, as it seems to be a needed answer, considering the confusion/frustration it appears to be creating. The "radio silence" on questions like this should not exist…

I would just like to state that by and large, I am very happy with Logos, with the direction of the company, and with the current leadership. Great things are happening!

Yes, this is my shameless attempt to inject some optimism into my thread which currently reads too negative for my liking.

Your attempt at optimism is appreciated!

I understand the frustration.
Like you, the decision doesn't directly affect me, but it does seem very odd. The first couple times I heard someone mention it in the forums I actually assumed they misunderstood, but I've seen more than a few people mention it at this point so I believe it is the case. What doesn't make sense to me is how hard the "Last Chance" sale was pushed in light of all the big changes. I personally purchased the FFS on the last chance sale, even though I plan on staying subscribed long into the future, but I can see where someone who purchased out of fear would feel like they got "bait and switched".
In my time of being a Logos user, I've never felt this "uneasy" or "unsure" about the direction of the company. I do pray for the success of the company, not only because of my investment, but also because I do believe in the mission. All the changes and lack of communication on direction does make me a little more hesitant about my investment though. I don't say this to contribute to the negativity, only in hopes that Logos hears the concern of their customers.
I do hope that the team at Logos can jump in the front of these concerns from their existing customers and offer some clarity and communication.
One thing Logos has going for it is that for all intents and purposes, the competition just isn't as good. But a superior product does not always translate to brand loyalty. Often times, consumers will be loyal to an inferior product who's brand resonates with them on a deeper level… I mean look how many love Android!😉 (I kid, I kid)

…I was just about to "like" your post too… 😉

I agree, no free trial here. A very weird decision to exclude your existing customer base from: trialing your new offering!

This decision by Logos was not well thought out and is definitely going to frustrate many. It seems that Logos focus is on gaining new customers. They ultimately want a base of customers that will perpetually subscribe. The end game will be either you use the free version or pay. In their minds, full feature owners are a thing of the past and a stepping stone to their new goal. Full feature owners have the luxury of evaluating the new changes to see if it is worth it for them. If they determine it is not, they can keep using what they purchased. And, since the majority of Logos customers are still owners, they would lose a lot of money by offering the free trial to everyone.

@Aaron Hamilton This is a great question. I would love to hear an answer directly from Faithlife/Logos on this.

Existing customers can get a free trial if they sign up through an affiliate link.

I can certainly understand why L10 owners would want a free trial, and that may be something we offer in the future. We're trying to balance things across the various types of customers, and that's not always easy. We appreciate the feedback.

Our thinking was:

1. A free trial is a perk, and L10 owners already get the legacy fallback license and a very good discount. An additional free month on top of that may leave some newer customers feeling they were getting a bad deal in comparison.
2. A free trial is also an opportunity to test the software before you commit. New customers, especially, have a lot to test. They won't just be testing the brand-new features, but they'll be testing all the old features, too. On the other hand, L10 owners already have a good sense of what Logos can deliver, and there is less uncertainty for them.

As I've said, we keep all of this under review, and who gets a free trial and how long it lasts may change in the future.

In addition, early next year, we're also planning to add the ability to test some new features without even needing to take out a free trial, which may help a bit.

Thank you very much for your reply, Mark. I understand that a free trial is a perk that noone is entitled to. With that in mind, Rick's comment in this thread is a great example of how offering a free trial can create incentive for existing customers to become long-term subscribers where they otherwise possibly wouldn't have.

Blessings to you and the team as you continue to navigate this difficult transition.

@Mark Barnes (Logos) I really have a lot that I could say about such a response. I am not going to do it though. Instead I think I shall just take my credit card and go elsewhere. I never thought that after 25+ years and over $25, 000 dollars of investment that Logos would treat long time customers this way. What a joke.

I really try hard not to smile, Mark. Trying your software is a perk? But hopefully your Christmas will be fun!

And remember when you were a customer, you got a 30 day refund window for those unknown new features. Times have changed.

I don't know what it is about the way you express yourself that always seems to lift my spirits, DMB. But sooner or later I feel you'll have to tone down the cynicism or it might start tainting your experience of this blessed holiday season. ✝️

I think you're reading in too much (appreciate your concern). We're already enjoying our Christmas. I used to be a corporate exec, and watching Faithlife is interesting (management decisioning). I personally have little at risk, but Logos as a future spiritual tool vs a slice-and-dice money maker? That is my concern. Most seem to see it as just one more app.

I have to admit that cynicism is hard to avoid for me personally with this New Era of Logos …

While I appreciate Mark responding to you - I can see the view upon reading it, that there is a lot of concern about what new customers will feel....

I can see the view, what about the long time customers who have kept you in business for decades with their faithful purchases?

Also, the discount for L10 owners is promoted as some wonderful thing.…it is a new name for Dynamic Pricing ..... Why would L10 FFS owners pay the same as newbies? Unless Logos really wants to drive them away.... We already own a majority of the Features, why would we be expected to pay for them again

Good luck finding another product that does what Logos does. Now if you only use the very basic features of Logos, then you can easily find what you need elsewhere. But there's really only one other advanced Bible study tool out there anymore that does as much as Logos and that tool is backed by a company that I would no longer trust. So be careful who you give your credit card to.

I've been using that other software since version 7. Has always done what I needed it to do to this very day. There are other choices out there if you know where and how to find them.

Trust me on this, it is not all about me with this situation. It's about all of us that have been around for decades.

Let me share a piece of advise with you since you were kind enough to share one with me. Taught to me many, many moons ago by my Grandfather, a very wise man. "Never invest more in anything than you are willing to lose." He was not just talking about money. Life is not all about money.

This is an interesting discussion. Kevin may be right, but I do find that Logos has a lot of features that I never use. I haven't made a decision yet, but for the first time I've found myself considering buying a a modest package from the leading competitor just to see if it would be a viable "Plan B" for me. Logos 10 is still working fine for me, but that may not remain the case if FaithLife continues down the current hardline subscription only path.

If it is the company I am thinking of…. I have not done business with them yet, but have considered testing out an entry level package…. What reason would I have to be concerned about making a purchase from them with my credit card? Have they or are they known for fraud/fraudulent charges?

@Frank, I think Kevin is referring to A-Company and 'how much longer in business'. That was a big factor for me yesterday, on my Encyclopedia > Hebrew. After reassurance from Logos staff, I decided to pay $399 to Logos, vs $299 to A-Company. A $100 premium was well worth it (plus works in Logos of course!).

@EastTN, just my own 2 cents. There's a long-distance from entry packages in A-Company, to your Logos rig (talking resources). Myself, I was lucky to do a BibleWorks conversion (they were really kind), and essentially build off the BW library (pretty good; several books not available in Logos).

My dead @ links are due to being able to see the menu of @-choices but can't actually pick one.

That was the company I was thinking - and if they are in danger of folding that could have been the reason given. The way that it was worded sounded more like the business has shady practices with a purchaser's credit card info…

I'm not disputing what Kevin said, if that's how it seemed it definitely was not the intent.

Logos has lost my faith and my trust. I feel they are not to be trusted anymore because they have put money and marketing ahead of being human. They don't care about us old farts anymore. I feel like we are just beets that they can't sqeeze blood from anymore so we are useless to them.

It's just software and others make software too. I will use the Logos stuff I have till it dies, but I refuse at this point to buy anything else from them.

There are always other things that will come along.

Tim

No they aren't, Frank.

When we added the 5% discount and the 5% annual credit to the subscription, that was done with faithful long-term customers in mind. The Legacy Fallback License was again done mostly for those customers, recognizing that the transition to subscription would be especially hard for those who are used to buying an upgrade every two or three years. None of those decisions come for free, of course, although we hope that they will be win-win. The discounts too, were also done with this group in mind, although it's fair for you to describe them as a new name for Dynamic Pricing. My point in all this is simply to say that we thought a lot about these customers (heck, many of us on staff are those customers), and I can honestly say that we did what we felt was right for those customers.

The free trial was done with newer customers in mind, although they'll also get the benefit of the book discounts and cashback (but not Legacy Fallback, and not the subscription reduction).

So, all that is to say that we're concerned about all our customers — new and existing. Trying to keep everyone happy and feeling they're appreciated and treated fairly is, of course, a challenge. If we got it wrong, it's not because we don't care about or don't consider long-time customers, but simply because we're human and fallible, and sometimes we make mistakes. I was in all those conversations, and I can promise that long-time loyal customers were very much in our thinking and conversations — some of you by name!

Right now, I think we got the balance between considering new and existing customers about right. It's clear that not all of you share that view, and I hear that criticism and I (and the rest of the team) will continue to reflect on it.

Well, I remain mystified. First, I don't want the subscription, so none of this affects me personally. But an L10 owner and not show off the 'oh wow' … view it as a 'perk'. It's like a reluctance to do business with them. 'Ok, ok … a ten-'er and you can check it out. But be quick about it.'

Then there's the guy that got 'caught' in checkout … accepted the free-offer but he had an L10. Did he get an apology or undo the unwanted subscription?

@DMB, thanks for the insight. I figured that would be the case. I don't have any desire at this point to duplicate my current Logos library in another ecosystem. But it would be nice to verify that I could if I wanted to. I've read all the marketing materials and looked at their catalogue, but it's difficult to get a feel for a software platform without actually trying it out…

This is interesting and helpful information. Honestly, I never viewed the free trial as a perk (I don't think most companies use it as a perk, but rather as a marketing technique). Rather, I saw it as an incentive to encourage new signups from both new and existing customers, hoping that some or many of those customers would become paying customers. Now that I know you see it as a perk, specifically as a perk for new customers, that helps me to understand your decision.

@EastTN Let me shed a bit of light on how I actually did my Bible programs.

First, I have three that all get used daily at some point. One is company-A, the one's with the oil lamp: Two is company FL/L, they are the blue one with the Cross: Three is company-OT, they are the one with the olive tree.

None of the three have all the same books. Some books are the same but not many.

My goto is company-A, the books in it were not available in company FL/L at the time I built it up. Company-FL/L even though I have had it the longest is my second choice. It is built to be very well rounded in all denominations. Company-OT I basic use on my iPad and phone to just sit and read with (or I use a real paper book). Sometimes some simple studies.

At one time WordSearch was my goto up until they were bought out by company-FL/L.

Anyway, I use company-A and company FL/L side by side on two monitors. For deep stuff I always go to Company-A first. If I can't do what I need to do then I go to the other.

I could have used either company-A or company-FL/L on my phone and iPad but I don't care much for either one of their mobile apps.

Lot of gibberish but I hope you get an idea of how I use them. Just remember not all the resources are duplicated. It works out really well.

I appreciate your response @Mark Barnes (Logos) and I will give you the benefit of the doubt in relation to your statements. However, once I as a long term customer feel as valued as new customers, I'll be the first to publicly acknowledge it here....

While the LFL is a benefit for L10 owners, it also took a LOT of pushback to be offered... So I will give a little credit for responding to the pushback, but understand that the fact we needed that pushback to at least get the LFL is an example of why some of us feel like we aren't valued as much.

Add in the fact that we are now being asked to pay for Feature Parity of Features we own.... Also not a great way of showing the appreciation...

Expecting us to have to change our workflows for the sake of making things easier for new users.... While some have grown to adapt and even enjoy the Dynamic Toolbar, some just want efficient use and to not have to change their Layouts on top of it. Then possibly having to be stuck on Version 36 if we want to avoid it....

@Mark Barnes (Logos) I do appreciate your elaborating on the current thinking. I do have one thought to consider. A decent number of us paid for early access and ket rolling once the subscription plan became live. And again, I appreciate the concession of adding the fallback license. However, many Logos customers apparently were not clear on what was coming and were never a part of early access. So it would make sense to give them 30 days to kick the tires and see if it something they are interested in. Or even 14 days or 7 days. It could build some good feelings from those who would like to give it a try. And hopefully that would pay off and you get some more customers. Just my two cents.

I can certainly understand why L10 owners would want a free trial, and that may be something we offer in the future. We're trying to balance things across the various types of customers, and that's not always easy. We appreciate the feedback.

Our thinking was:

1. A free trial is a perk, and L10 owners already get the legacy fallback license and a very good discount. An additional free month on top of that may leave some newer customers feeling they were getting a bad deal in comparison.
2. A free trial is also an opportunity to test the software before you commit. New customers, especially, have a lot to test. They won't just be testing the brand-new features, but they'll be testing all the old features, too. On the other hand, L10 owners already have a good sense of what Logos can deliver, and there is less uncertainty for them.

As I've said, we keep all of this under review, and who gets a free trial and how long it lasts may change in the future.

In addition, early next year, we're also planning to add the ability to test some new features without even needing to take out a free trial, which may help a bit.

When we added the 5% discount and the 5% annual credit to the subscription, that was done with faithful long-term customers in mind. The Legacy Fallback License was again done mostly for those customers, recognizing that the transition to subscription would be especially hard for those who are used to buying an upgrade every two or three years. None of those decisions come for free, of course, although we hope that they will be win-win. The discounts too, were also done with this group in mind, although it's fair for you to describe them as a new name for Dynamic Pricing. My point in all this is simply to say that we thought a lot about these customers (heck, many of us on staff are those customers), and I can honestly say that we did what we felt was right for those customers.

The free trial was done with newer customers in mind, although they'll also get the benefit of the book discounts and cashback (but not Legacy Fallback, and not the subscription reduction).

So, all that is to say that we're concerned about all our customers — new and existing. Trying to keep everyone happy and feeling they're appreciated and treated fairly is, of course, a challenge. If we got it wrong, it's not because we don't care about or don't consider long-time customers, but simply because we're human and fallible, and sometimes we make mistakes. I was in all those conversations, and I can promise that long-time loyal customers were very much in our thinking and conversations — some of you by name!

Right now, I think we got the balance between considering new and existing customers about right. It's clear that not all of you share that view, and I hear that criticism and I (and the rest of the team) will continue to reflect on it.