Sell Me on a LFL Subscription
First off, I want to acknowledge @Phil Gons (Logos) as the main reason I am even willing to post this and give consideration to the responses. He has been an asset to Logos and to me personally for a long time as a customer/user. I can also add @Bradley Grainger (Logos) as well - I really appreciate the time both have given to me through the years and especially during the transition to the New Era of Logos. ( @Jason Stone (Logos) though related to the Forums is an added benefit)
Pleasantries aside - I think I've been quite clear through the whole process of the issues I have with the current state of doing further "upgrade" business with Logos - but I'd like to hear the Sales Pitch from my fellow users (Logos Members are welcome as well) that have been subscribed and have had time with the new offerings.
As a heads up - I am currently where I want to be with my Library, so the resources that come with the Subscription and the discount/cash back perks aren't going to move my opinion. (Not that I don't want you to mention if that is a benefit to you - just that if that is going to be your emphasis - it won't have an impact for me)
So let's see what you have Forum Sales Team - can you sell me and potentially others???
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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My first thought: do you want them to still be in business in a decade? Answer then buy accordingly.
preachertony.com — appletech.tips — facebook.com/tonywalker23 — twitter.com/tonywalker23 — youtube.com/tonywalker23
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Frank, I think you tried early access and have beta tested the product. (correct me if I am wrong) You have voiced your concerns about the product and those concerns still exist. I would say that each customer needs to decide the best path for them in going forward with Logos. I do not think after all the discussions I have read about how you feel, going through the Pros of a subscription, or why some may enjoy the subscription product will convince you otherwise. I respect your opinion. Your dislike for the taskbar alone is reason for you not to subscribe at this time. Hopefully this comes across as respectfully honest.
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Came across fine @John Fidel - I agree, the Toolbar was one of two reasons I would not subscribe - but it sounds as though I will not have a choice in avoiding it, without locking myself to V36 at some point in the future. Thus, my post.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Obviously, I'm not a sales team member. But I can say why I've been using the subscription model since the first Logos Now (Is that the right term? I forget), which was followed by FL Connect. I got into the subscription model because every couple of years Logos would release the newest version and charge a couple-hundred dollars, or so, to get it. The subscription's cost for two years seemed to me to be about the same, more-or-less, than the one-time cost of the latest version. Plus, there were some benefits. So from a cost perspective, the subscription seemed to be a wash with the one-time price. If they still followed that model, then they would have released Logos 11 sometime this fall, and charged us more than a couple-hundred dollars for the privilege. I also remember the amount of discontent that was seen on the forums every time a new version came out, but after time everyone settled down and accepted our fate. I don't know if the same thing will happen this time, but I, for one, am happy with my subscription. Not only that, but I'm even learning to use the new toolbar!!! (Edit: I typed this about the toolbar before I saw the comments above. I had no intention of inciting anything by my comment - just my attempt at being lighthearted🙂)
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Frank, the subscription is a monthly commitment of around 10/month depending on your discounts. If you can fit that in your monthly budget, which most can if they would be buying a non-subscription feature set anyway, then just jump in and try it. Be willing to change some workflows in order to perhaps find some new features that enhance your study. If you still do not find value, then cancel and know you gave it your best shot.
That's the best advise I can give you buddy.
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All good @Dennis Toll - I didn't look at anything in your comment as being inciting anyways. I think you do make a good point for the subscription path (one I agree with BTW) that it can be an excellent option for some users due to the low up front. (Also, I was a Now subscriber for 2-3 years early on IIRC)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Hey Frank. I have no interest in putting together a sales pitch, but I'll answer nonetheless. What I like most about the subscription: it's fun.
It's fun getting another $50 off on a $1000 course package that's 90% off. It's fun getting updates every 6 weeks. It's fun being able to sample courses on the side when I have the time. It's fun asking conversational questions in search about my library and having AI point me to resources I never would have discovered with precise search. It's fun having variety and being able to switch between smart and precise search. I could go on, but you get the point. It does help, admittedly that I'm an optimist. If I were not, I may get frustrated at Logos' tendency to prematurely release things out of beta. As it is, it's fun to see Logos regularly fixing problems and bugs, improving features.
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Thanks @Aaron Hamilton - I will admit that the Mobile Ed courses would be one perk that I would use. I can't say that I haven't used the ones that I have purchased.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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@Dennis Toll said "The subscription's cost for two years seemed to me to be about the same, more-or-less, than the one-time cost of the latest version."
Aren't you forgetting something? After two years of paying for subscription, you own nothing.
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Aren't you forgetting something? After two years of paying for subscription, you own nothing.@ After two years, I would also have to pay another couple-hundred (or three??) dollars to continue. So it's the same thing. I've been subscribing since Logos Now started way back when. From my perspective
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My contribution to this discussion is a variation on Tony's. I want Logos to be in business for the pastors, missionaries, evangelists, academics, and lay persons who are doing the Lord's work now and those that follow after them. So many Bible software companies are no longer in business and that is a concern to me. In addition to all the benefits others have mentioned that accrue to me from my subscription, my monthly subscription is a small investment in a company I want to see continue to be there in the future.
I wish you grace in making your decision, Frank.
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Aren't you forgetting something? After two years of paying for subscription, you own nothing.
Sorry - but I messed up on the two previous posts under my name — I am still trying to figure out how to quote, and something weird happened in those attempts. I would love to know how to delete them.
Regarding @John 's question, that's never bothered me. I always intended to continue my subscription, since I would always be paying for the latest update anyhow. The books and libraries I purchased would always be mine, regardless of the subscription. And with this latest Logos Max model, I get to keep the latest version after two years. So I have always viewed it that whether I bought, or subscribed, I would be at the same place in terms of cost. And subscription provided some perks along the way. That's my take, anyhow.
Maybe this is related, or not, but I also subscribe to the Galaxie Journal package instead of purchasing. At $50 a year and at 68 years of age, I figure I will die long before I pay more money for the subscription. 😋
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I'm on the forum sales team, but a slightly different perspective … just ride the wave. If the menu forces the issue, no loss … you're not paying. But here's the deal … their next feature may be the cat's meow. That sounds speculative, but it just seems to me, applying AI to the Text, is going to revolutionize a whole area of Bible study. My platform does that. And if you're thinking …. oh … computers doing theology! No, I'm talking about searching out phrasings, author patterns, and so forth. And that's just one area … many more are possible.
So .. no decisions needed too soon … and you may be pleasantly surprised.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Wrong again. After 2 years on subscription, you would own nothing.
After purchasing an upgrade, two years later you would still own what you had purchased, and you would be able to make an intelligent decision whether to purchase additional new features, after seeing them described and demonstrated. You could pay nothing if the new features did not interest you.
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@Dennis Toll said "And with this latest Logos Max model, I get to keep the latest version after two years.".
This is ONLY true if you already owned the L10 full feature set … which your first post indicates you do not?
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Despite that deal, Logos gave the longtime Logos Now subscribers the Full Feature Set at no additional cost. That shows me that Logos is still a company concerned with treating customers well, even if it leaves money on the table for them.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Makes sense, Dennis. For those who have every intention of continuing with the subscription there's not much to be bothered by. It's if someone might want to stop after awhile that they run into trouble. All that money and nothing to show for it. For now the LFL helps with that problem, as you correctly identified.
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@John, I have no desire to get into an argument about what I like and don't like. My first post was for @Frank Sauer. I have liked the subscription model for several years. So if I am "wrong" as you say, that's my preference.
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I did not say you were wrong for liking something. I said you were wrong for implying that the cost was the same, without factoring in ownership.
If I buy a new car, i own it.
If I lease a new car for 4 years, I pay for it, but at the end of the lease I own nothing.
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Good for you @John. You are right. I am "wrong."
Enjoy your victory.
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Deep inside you want it or else you wouldn’t be asking for affirmation. You will get left behind at some point so might as well take the plunge now.
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I've never denied that I wanted to upgrade - I normally always upgrade…. However, this "New Era" is not the same as the company that I faithfully supported and promoted for over 20 years. There was one time a charge for the Libronix Mac engine crossgrade - never charges for the advancement of Feature Parity - as an Android user in the New Era - I'm stuck with iOS licenses that are useless to me and am told you have to pay for Parity - that concerns me as a customer as to what the future holds for similar decisions.
Another large concern for me is being valued as a long time customer. The Logos I supported for all these years - if I called and asked if Bob could email me, as I had some concerns about "insert concern" - I received an email from Bob…. In the New Era - I waited 6 months before giving up for a multiple time request to communicate with the Project Manager… I'm not even worth an email… That's why I mentioned the guys in the OP - they reached out to me… But the person with the answers… Nothing - so another reason I am concerned about what the future holds - this is not the Logos that I am used to…
So those two things - I gave up on the toolbar since I have a choice of locking myself to V36 or using it since there will be no avoiding it at some point in the future…
That's why I asked for the "Forum Sales Team" to sell me on it (I am looking for a positive, but the two things I mentioned are really concerning to me. Honestly if Logos had come out and said those of us who own the Sermon features get parity for Android as we always have in the past - with the news about the toolbar - I would have already paid for the two year in my cart - but it is a principle thing for me - yes I am stubborn when it comes to things like that and I do not fear being "left behind", as it would be Logos leaving a faithful customer behind)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Also a "minor" concern is the "no refund" business model…. I've seen some post about their disappointment with the Subscription being told that they are stuck with it for a year or two if that is what they paid. Logos, IIRC had a 30 day "return" policy - I only used it once, when a salesperson looked at my order and with talking to me - pointed out that he could get me a better deal for what I was looking for and processed the refund and new purchase on the same call…
It currently sounds like that benefit is gone (unless you pay monthly and change on the next month)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Frank, I could give you a short. list of reasons now as we are still very early in the "new era".
My first reason would be simply that I want Logos to be around for the long haul. I wish the same for Accordance and still support and promote them as well.
Second, I have found that the AI has provided some real value for me. When I research something, it is nice to see book results with summaries show up that I don't own or wasn't even aware they existed. This will help drive book sales for Logos as well so it's a win-win there.
Last, the reality is that, in a lot of cases, people aren't looking to make large purchases and continue buying books anymore. And others feel that since they made their purchase 20 years ago that they are entitled to free updates for life (Not referring to you or anyone, just generalizing). If everyone did that, it is not sustainable. Logos has promised that, and that is very generous of them. Programmers have to be paid, the electric bill needs to be paid, etc. Since I do have the LFL, I look at my subscription as a way to help keep Logos healthy. They do need a steady stream of revenue. And yes, they still need to continue to offer LFL as an incentive :-)
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Just wanted to say I appreciate the input from those that replied - Thank you!
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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You’re welcome 😁 Now go ahead and jump on that subscription 👍
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😂maybe one day - there are things that would make that an easier decision to give it a chance, but - well - I'll keep an eye on this thread if anyone else decides to share
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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All the more reason to wait! Motivate Logos staff to build something great. I'm looking for some good (new) OL tools.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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OL tools + AI assistance in Logos = game changer
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It would be nice to see more Features - there are one or two that may interest me as of now…
As much as Features (maybe a little more), I am watching the "operation" and "decision making" of the New Era of Logos - there are some things that concern me there and I look at not only "what" I am buying, but "who" I am buying from….
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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This is one reason I am waiting to see what Max may offer for the LFL - if Max is just non LFL Features, I may avoid it
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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I would suggest avoiding it until there's an obvious motivator for you. As of now, there's not much reason to favor Max over Pro. If OL study doesn't excite you, then there's likely not going to be much reason for you in the future either. I say this, however, as a happy Max subscriber.
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If there is another Q & A at the next Webinar when Mark covers what is in v.39, I definitely want to ask this question.
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I keep looking forward to each new Version Beta cycle for something in the Release Notes of some upcoming Feature to look forward to - so far it seems UI, AI and updates to existing Features are the highlights. (Bible Study Builder does look interesting)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Yep, and it's rather funny (watching my own behavior). I daily experience bugs in the app, but the update writeup swells with pride, for subscription fixes. I think, well, okaaaay.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I've been on the fence but figure a worker is worth his wage. The old model of software (buy once, then expect free upgrades and maintenance for life) just isn't viable. That was of a time that only worked when the PC industry & Internet were young and there huge numbers of new buyers out there (a sort of pyramid scene where new buyers were financing the older buyers).
I feel like Logos came in with a reasonable subscription price so despite my satisfaction with my library and lack of "need" for AI, I liked it well enough to do it.
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While I do understand the view and may not totally disagree with it - there were some who weren't just buy once - we kept updated and showed continued support through the years. We also paid a "Logos Premium" we were told was due to the cost to allow the searches that we have today. As others have stated and questioned in many posts (not all subscription related) many books can be found on sale or below retail elsewhere, yet many still support Logos there as well.
So while I can understand the downfall of the buy once segment of the user base - there is the group of us that have been faithful customers.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Good points. You've surely done a lot more than me in supporting Logos since I've not bought upgrades and don't buy many books now.
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Frank,
I'm in the overwhelming minority, but, highly vocal group on this one.
First, I'll give you the very bad, worst and ugly of Logos, and how I see it and them as a corporation.
I find them to be a very greedy, money hungry, barely Christian organization, that is pretty much out to "sucker" Christians, under the guise of Christianity.
From early on, they have maintained they are a business first; they have never even stated ministry is second. At least I have not seen it, and, they have not said so to me. Their primary purpose is to make money. I think it is their only purpose.
Now, in defense of Logos, there is nothing wrong with a business making money, and, I do not believe that if God has blessed a minister, or a person with a ton of money, that is inherently wrong. Some people do. I do not. The Bible states the LOVE of money is the root of all evil; not money itself. Having plenty of money makes it a lot easier to survive this life, and to hopefully do God's work much easier.
Now, while I speak harshly against Logos, they do plenty that is right, also.
First, regardless of motivation in profiting off God's word. it is God's word. So, unless that in itself is a fraud; and, I am in no way suggesting it is, we must take into consideration that God's word will not return void. So, even if Logos is completely in it for the money, and they themselves are fraudulent, cons, and schemers, they're STILL making God's word available and study available. Even if it is at a hefty price tag; and, requires a hefty price tag to get to fully understand how to use it.
Now, assuming that those involved are not completely fraudulent, scamming and conning us, aside from the material itself, there are other things they do, I wish other companies would do:
*Customer Service. Granted, they are here to sell and boy do they ever. But, if you run into trouble, they are top notch at finding fixes. I even had them troubleshoot my computer to figure why the software wasn't updating properly. Most customer service reps cant even explain how to turn on a computer (sarcasm noted).
*Dynamic Pricing. I have heard motivations are not all that pure. I'll be honest. I dont care, at this point. There may be legal issues with selling later on; but, that is another bridge to cross later. In the meantime, they are otherwise correct. You shouldn't have to pay twice, nor should bundles be set up needlessly with 100's of titles, and half are repeated titles. So, I applaud this effort on their part. Maybe they aren't all about money, after all?
*You bought it, It's yours. People are discovering that when they buy digital copies of an item, they could lose access if the company loses their rights to the title; whether it be a song, book, movie, whatever. Logos was set up to guard against this. If they lose the license, their agreement requires the publishers to allow us to keep the title. Regardless. As a result, in one example, I continue to have access to the Hebrew Primer, even though Logos no longer has the license. Too bad that is not the case with Bring on the Dancing Horses, or Sphero's App Enabled Droids, which are pretty much useless without being able to redownload the apps.
As far as renting vs buying goes. Mr. Pritchard (did I get it wrong again?) former CEO and co-founder said, "Either way I get you money" when he started the subscription model. For me, it was a no-brainer; despite my a) lack of understanding on how to actually make use of the software, to any worth. b) my pretty much skepticism and hatred for how the company operates. IF I were to have ANY chance at putting my money to use and figure out how to use the software, it seemed practical to pay $100/yr over $10/mo and definitely over $400 every 3-4 years. On top of all that, there were REAL benefits to paying an annual right to use their books.
1. I get to use the books. Even if I dont know how to.
2. There's a wealth of information to access. In the 14 years I've been suckered, I mean, using Logos, I have accumulated over 7800 resources. Approximately (250 or less) will no longer be mine if ever I quit Logos. That works out to be 8.33/mo . We pay double that for HBO's Max or Netflix.
3. We received several out of copy-right titles every month. Some were valued over $50. After several years, the selection dwindled down to books at $20 or less; but, still a nice benefit, none-the-less.
4. We got to borrow up to two courses of our choice, per year. I cant afford $750 for a course, but I could access it for 6 months. For no additional cost.
5. 2% back at the start of the new year. Unlike credit cards where you get 2-5 pennies for every 100 you borrow, and are then charged 10-30 for not repaying those 100 back in 30 days, we get to keep what we spent, and get 2 pennies for every 100 we spent. Ok, not a lot, but, it helps. With my minimal spending (still seems like a fortune) I get $20 to spend. Which is kind of like getting my annual fee for $80, or, ironically, 6.66 a month.
To be honest, I am not thrilled by the new subscription plan. It's still $100/yr but, the question as to whether it will remain a "forever rate" as previously stated, or, whether it will be increased later, I suppose depends on how much integrity there is in the company; and, of course, since the old subscription rates were for the old model, they may say "Don't count anymore". I hope not; but, OTWT as they say.
IF i am (mis)understanding things correctly the perks are similar, with these key differences:
1. They choose what books we get for free. This can be better and worse. Better, because we may get better and newer titles. Worse because we may not want those titles.
2. They choose what courses we can access, and, apparently when. We can now get up to 8 (better) but again, they choose which ones we get (potentially worse).
3. We get something called AI credits. How many? No idea. Ive seen nothing to explain this, or, how it works. Actually, that makes this entirely frustrating.
4. I hear we get access to up to 500 new titles. I'm not sure if I missed this when I got them; or, I didn't get them; or, they're still coming. Again, frustrating.
5. The higher the level, the better the perks. This is always how that works. Another "Duh!" thing. But, for an extra $5 a month, we get far more than $5 in benefits; the 5 extra courses is one key benefit. Extra AI credits; again, if I knew what that was, how many we get, and how to do any of it, I could get excited. But, for now, not even breaking a yawn on this.
Ok, there you have an honest to God flat out critique. The good and the bad. For me, I cannot tell if I have been duped and am just pouring money into a pit; or, if I can ever get the desire and motivation back, to learn this, a wealth of information, for minimal money. So, obviously, I cannot determine for you, whether it's worth it or not. I figure, however, if you get excellent use of the software, then it has to be worth every penny, and more. Even though it's a never ending cash cow for Logos. But, if you are like me, and you barely open it, because a) its too difficult, b) you've lost almost all your desire and motivation, and/or c) tired of being bleeded to death, then perhaps you should figure better ways to use your resources.
Oh, one more thing. Logos will end in one of two ways for me:
1. I'll continue paying for Logos til the day I die, and, then the software license will undoubtedly be useless (or willed to someone) or
2 I'll stop, and the software license will undoubtedly be useless (or willed to someone) with all the titles remaining.
Either way, the result is ultimately the same.1 -
I still have the two year Max in my cart - I am wondering where the affordability that seems to be a benefit of the new era of Logos is….
I went back through my various upgrades and then add the Gold 2025 Library into the cart with the 2 year Max - this would be the equivalent of normal upgrades to the new Gold version in previous years (except we OWNED everything previously) and my total comes to the high end of my average similar upgrades…. (This is with the L10 FFS discount and the first 2025 Library Discount….) Sorry, but just another example of the missing "benefit" of subscription - where is it more affordable….
And I am being serious not cynical in this post - I am truly trying to find a "plus" in this new era…
Had to fight for a limited LFL
Forcing the new toolbar on users that do NOT want it
Charging for Feature Parity
Less free books with the Subscription as others have pointed out
and my personal issue as a long time customer and promoter of the product - dozens of requests and over six months of waiting and I am still not worth an email from the one person who could have answered some questions that I had…..
Yet somehow, I am still looking for the "silver lining" and waiting to give the LFL a chance to impress me and keep me as a faithful customer….
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Smart Search - At first, I didn't think I would care about smart search because I am very good at using the precise search. I've changed my mind, it is incredible.
Upcoming improvements to smart search - Mark showed a screenshot a while back of a smart Bible search (Jesus speaking to women). That will be a game changer. I want to have that the day it comes out.
Bible Study Builder - If you ever lead discussions, the Bible Study Builder is a really powerful tool. Unearthing discussion questions with traditional methods is difficult at best, and really impossible to do consistently. The Bible Study Builder (which will be included in your Legacy Fallback license) is a great tool.I don't mind the dynamic toolbar. Upgrades usually come with UI changes, some of which I like right away, some of which grow on me and some of which I learn to live with. There isn't anything new about that.
But Frank, it seems like you aren't interested in this upgrade. So just skip it. Or wait a little longer and see if a new feature you like comes out and do a one month subscription to try it out. If you are happy with your features and happy with your books, why keep fretting about it? Just consider this Logos release a dud and jump in if and when you're pleased with the product. I especially don't understand why you're looking at Max, which offers no new features at present, just more rental books you don't want.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Ok Frank, seems like your mind and Batman’s are already made up. Having said that, whether you’re sold into buying or not that’s ultimately your decision. So buy and test it for two years or don’t buy, is that simple. We all waste money on other things this isn’t any different.
DAL
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Smart Bible search marketability will be interesting. I can see a whole raft of church leader-types, that the combination of a solid Logos, with easy search, would appeal. Then, everyday 'Bible study'ers' too.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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For me it's as simple as the extra subscriber discount and the extra free book of the month offerings.
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Why keep "fretting about it" - because many of us have invested deeply in the platform - and for me personally I do not like what I see and the risk in my investment….
I am used to dealing with a company that did not charge users for Feature Parity for Features they already own.
I am used to dealing with a company that a single request to communicate with one of its leaders - you would hear from that person directly within a few days max…. Not have someone else contact you or not respond to multiple requests for over six months….
Those are the two big ones….
To a lesser degree there are times that I look at the decisions and wonder if I am dealing with Logos or with a cable or cell phone company who are notorious for forgetting about the faithful customers and catering to the new ones (faithful customers have to lose the efficiency so the new users can have what they claim is "easier" navigation)
Maybe I am just stuck on the "how things used to be" - but the way the company was - made it tolerable when a decision or change you didn't like was implemented - Logos would also go out of there way to fix issues or the relationship with the customer - I don't see that any longer…. What am I talking about? With my personal situation in the days that I miss, I would not have a request to communicate with someone ignored for over six months (Bob included) - the moment I mentioned that my being forced to pay for Feature Parity for a Feature I already own (which has never been done before - only a one time charge to "fund" the original Mac engine (none of the Feature Parity going forward) - it would have been addressed immediately and I would have been thanked for being a long time customer - Now? I'm told you can have feature parity when you subscribe (a totally new agenda in the New Era) which leads me to wonder if that is the new standard of the New Era - pay for Feature Parity for features you already own going forward….
I gave up on the toolbar issue since I was informed it would be forced on me even if I don't subscribe…. So, I've already committed to either being stuck on V36 to avoid it or being forced to change some of my layouts and get used to up to four times the click to get the same job done just for the sake of bug fixes….
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Those concerns don't have anything to do with anyone selling you on subscribing. You've decided that you don't want to subscribe to this product, so don't.
I have never tried to get into direct contact with any of the leaders of the company, so I can't speak to your concerns with that. I can say that I subscribed to Logos Now when it first came out without any expectation of ownership and that Logos gave the early adopters the Logos 10 feature set anyway when they transitioned us to the new model. That is the kind of action that makes me believe we're dealing with the same kind of reliable company that we have always enjoyed.
Using Logos as a pastor, seminary professor, and Tyndale author
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Yeah ok, you know my thoughts and can tell me what my concerns have to do with ... If I didn't want to try to find a reason, I would not waste my time doing so.... But you probably knew that as well .. LOL
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 16 & Android 14
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Just reading along, Frank, I 'suspect' some of their decisions (one in particular) is stuck in your craw. And it seems to speak to the future of the company (and you're hoping 'not').
I had that problem at the Libby>L4 crossover. A single decision, that (a) they didn't attempt to recognize its significance, (b) subsequently just ignored complaints, and (c) would turn out to be representative of their future decisioning. And so, I've held them at arm's length … enjoy the books, but be careful of the company. Everyone is different, of course.
I do think your example (Android parity) along with requiring owners to complain about legacy-ownership, are indicative of their future. I'm happy where I'm at … but, I'd not be if I were just entering the 'new era' game (rules now substantially favor the house).
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I've been following this thread, Frank, and I suspect a specific issue is stuck in your craw, leading to wondering about the company (and hoping you're wrong).
I had that issue at the Libby > L4 crossover. They introduced a process that (a) had major significance to religious use, (b) ignored the significance, including later complaints, and © was representative of the company's later behavior.
The issues you bring up are similar … Android parity (really odd decision), and forcing customers to demand ownership after subscription payments. Personally, I'm happy, but if I were new to the 'new era' game, I'd not be .. the rules now significantly favor the house.
ADDED: Had to re-type the post; the forum app delivered java-error messages and deleted the post. Looks like a significant work in progress for Vanilla.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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