Sell Me on a LFL Subscription

If there is another Q & A at the next Webinar when Mark covers what is in v.39, I definitely want to ask this question.

Yep, and it's rather funny (watching my own behavior). I daily experience bugs in the app, but the update writeup swells with pride, for subscription fixes. I think, well, okaaaay.

Frank,
I'm in the overwhelming minority, but, highly vocal group on this one.
First, I'll give you the very bad, worst and ugly of Logos, and how I see it and them as a corporation.
I find them to be a very greedy, money hungry, barely Christian organization, that is pretty much out to "sucker" Christians, under the guise of Christianity.
From early on, they have maintained they are a business first; they have never even stated ministry is second. At least I have not seen it, and, they have not said so to me. Their primary purpose is to make money. I think it is their only purpose.

Now, in defense of Logos, there is nothing wrong with a business making money, and, I do not believe that if God has blessed a minister, or a person with a ton of money, that is inherently wrong. Some people do. I do not. The Bible states the LOVE of money is the root of all evil; not money itself. Having plenty of money makes it a lot easier to survive this life, and to hopefully do God's work much easier.

Now, while I speak harshly against Logos, they do plenty that is right, also.
First, regardless of motivation in profiting off God's word. it is God's word. So, unless that in itself is a fraud; and, I am in no way suggesting it is, we must take into consideration that God's word will not return void. So, even if Logos is completely in it for the money, and they themselves are fraudulent, cons, and schemers, they're STILL making God's word available and study available. Even if it is at a hefty price tag; and, requires a hefty price tag to get to fully understand how to use it.
Now, assuming that those involved are not completely fraudulent, scamming and conning us, aside from the material itself, there are other things they do, I wish other companies would do:
*Customer Service. Granted, they are here to sell and boy do they ever. But, if you run into trouble, they are top notch at finding fixes. I even had them troubleshoot my computer to figure why the software wasn't updating properly. Most customer service reps cant even explain how to turn on a computer (sarcasm noted).
*Dynamic Pricing. I have heard motivations are not all that pure. I'll be honest. I dont care, at this point. There may be legal issues with selling later on; but, that is another bridge to cross later. In the meantime, they are otherwise correct. You shouldn't have to pay twice, nor should bundles be set up needlessly with 100's of titles, and half are repeated titles. So, I applaud this effort on their part. Maybe they aren't all about money, after all?
*You bought it, It's yours. People are discovering that when they buy digital copies of an item, they could lose access if the company loses their rights to the title; whether it be a song, book, movie, whatever. Logos was set up to guard against this. If they lose the license, their agreement requires the publishers to allow us to keep the title. Regardless. As a result, in one example, I continue to have access to the Hebrew Primer, even though Logos no longer has the license. Too bad that is not the case with Bring on the Dancing Horses, or Sphero's App Enabled Droids, which are pretty much useless without being able to redownload the apps.

As far as renting vs buying goes. Mr. Pritchard (did I get it wrong again?) former CEO and co-founder said, "Either way I get you money" when he started the subscription model. For me, it was a no-brainer; despite my a) lack of understanding on how to actually make use of the software, to any worth. b) my pretty much skepticism and hatred for how the company operates. IF I were to have ANY chance at putting my money to use and figure out how to use the software, it seemed practical to pay $100/yr over $10/mo and definitely over $400 every 3-4 years. On top of all that, there were REAL benefits to paying an annual right to use their books.
1. I get to use the books. Even if I dont know how to.
2. There's a wealth of information to access. In the 14 years I've been suckered, I mean, using Logos, I have accumulated over 7800 resources. Approximately (250 or less) will no longer be mine if ever I quit Logos. That works out to be 8.33/mo . We pay double that for HBO's Max or Netflix.
3. We received several out of copy-right titles every month. Some were valued over $50. After several years, the selection dwindled down to books at $20 or less; but, still a nice benefit, none-the-less.
4. We got to borrow up to two courses of our choice, per year. I cant afford $750 for a course, but I could access it for 6 months. For no additional cost.
5. 2% back at the start of the new year. Unlike credit cards where you get 2-5 pennies for every 100 you borrow, and are then charged 10-30 for not repaying those 100 back in 30 days, we get to keep what we spent, and get 2 pennies for every 100 we spent. Ok, not a lot, but, it helps. With my minimal spending (still seems like a fortune) I get $20 to spend. Which is kind of like getting my annual fee for $80, or, ironically, 6.66 a month.
To be honest, I am not thrilled by the new subscription plan. It's still $100/yr but, the question as to whether it will remain a "forever rate" as previously stated, or, whether it will be increased later, I suppose depends on how much integrity there is in the company; and, of course, since the old subscription rates were for the old model, they may say "Don't count anymore". I hope not; but, OTWT as they say.
IF i am (mis)understanding things correctly the perks are similar, with these key differences:
1. They choose what books we get for free. This can be better and worse. Better, because we may get better and newer titles. Worse because we may not want those titles.
2. They choose what courses we can access, and, apparently when. We can now get up to 8 (better) but again, they choose which ones we get (potentially worse).
3. We get something called AI credits. How many? No idea. Ive seen nothing to explain this, or, how it works. Actually, that makes this entirely frustrating.
4. I hear we get access to up to 500 new titles. I'm not sure if I missed this when I got them; or, I didn't get them; or, they're still coming. Again, frustrating.
5. The higher the level, the better the perks. This is always how that works. Another "Duh!" thing. But, for an extra $5 a month, we get far more than $5 in benefits; the 5 extra courses is one key benefit. Extra AI credits; again, if I knew what that was, how many we get, and how to do any of it, I could get excited. But, for now, not even breaking a yawn on this.

Ok, there you have an honest to God flat out critique. The good and the bad. For me, I cannot tell if I have been duped and am just pouring money into a pit; or, if I can ever get the desire and motivation back, to learn this, a wealth of information, for minimal money. So, obviously, I cannot determine for you, whether it's worth it or not. I figure, however, if you get excellent use of the software, then it has to be worth every penny, and more. Even though it's a never ending cash cow for Logos. But, if you are like me, and you barely open it, because a) its too difficult, b) you've lost almost all your desire and motivation, and/or c) tired of being bleeded to death, then perhaps you should figure better ways to use your resources.

Oh, one more thing. Logos will end in one of two ways for me:
1. I'll continue paying for Logos til the day I die, and, then the software license will undoubtedly be useless (or willed to someone) or
2 I'll stop, and the software license will undoubtedly be useless (or willed to someone) with all the titles remaining.
Either way, the result is ultimately the same.

Smart Search - At first, I didn't think I would care about smart search because I am very good at using the precise search. I've changed my mind, it is incredible.

Upcoming improvements to smart search - Mark showed a screenshot a while back of a smart Bible search (Jesus speaking to women). That will be a game changer. I want to have that the day it comes out.

Bible Study Builder - If you ever lead discussions, the Bible Study Builder is a really powerful tool. Unearthing discussion questions with traditional methods is difficult at best, and really impossible to do consistently. The Bible Study Builder (which will be included in your Legacy Fallback license) is a great tool.

I don't mind the dynamic toolbar. Upgrades usually come with UI changes, some of which I like right away, some of which grow on me and some of which I learn to live with. There isn't anything new about that.

But Frank, it seems like you aren't interested in this upgrade. So just skip it. Or wait a little longer and see if a new feature you like comes out and do a one month subscription to try it out. If you are happy with your features and happy with your books, why keep fretting about it? Just consider this Logos release a dud and jump in if and when you're pleased with the product. I especially don't understand why you're looking at Max, which offers no new features at present, just more rental books you don't want.

Smart Bible search marketability will be interesting. I can see a whole raft of church leader-types, that the combination of a solid Logos, with easy search, would appeal. Then, everyday 'Bible study'ers' too.

I've been following this thread, Frank, and I suspect a specific issue is stuck in your craw, leading to wondering about the company (and hoping you're wrong).

I had that issue at the Libby > L4 crossover. They introduced a process that (a) had major significance to religious use, (b) ignored the significance, including later complaints, and © was representative of the company's later behavior.

The issues you bring up are similar … Android parity (really odd decision), and forcing customers to demand ownership after subscription payments. Personally, I'm happy, but if I were new to the 'new era' game, I'd not be .. the rules now significantly favor the house.

ADDED: Had to re-type the post; the forum app delivered java-error messages and deleted the post. Looks like a significant work in progress for Vanilla.

While it’s true that a company’s longevity isn’t our direct responsibility, choosing to support businesses we appreciate through subscriptions can be a win-win situation. It’s not about “signing over our paychecks” but making a conscious decision to invest in services we find valuable and wish to see continue and improve.

Ultimately, the decision to subscribe should be based on the value received and one’s personal circumstances, not on an obligation to support the company. However, if we derive significant benefits from a service, supporting it through a subscription can be a rational and mutually beneficial choice.

One thing that helped me Frank was thinking of the subscription as just another avenue of giving, one that allows people to hear about Logos, and to benefit from it. Even free account can use Logos to considerably improve their interaction with the bible. You can then also consider the number of free books that are given out each month, and how the spirit can work through these gifts.

Sure we are supporting a commercial entity, but it is one that is full of people who work for the Lord with intentions to help others to know him deeper, and that is not that different than supporting a charity doing the Lords work that may just happen to employ six figure senior management, not necessarily an ideal situation, but one that is sometimes necessary for the charity to remain viable. And if some of our money is channelled into the hands of venture capitalist, it will end up elsewhere eventually, and ultimately he is control of that.

I hate subscriptions, but this is one I am pretty sure is beneficial to the kingdom. I don't know the exact numbers, or even vague numbers, but even if there were 1 million Logos users now, that is insignificant compared with the potential hundreds of millions of users there could be over the next say 50 years, and the benefits that Logos could bring to them and who they reach, and if my relatively small subscription helps facilitate this by helping to keep Logos Inc. solvent, then I can sleep easy subscribing. Everything else then that comes with the subscription I can then view as a plus, and take it or leave it.

I think we had a miscommunication. I am not claiming to read your mind, I'm saying that your reply to me didn't have anything to do with the product or your original post asking people to sell you on getting a subscription for the legacy fallback license. If you don't trust the company, it would be silly to subscribe no matter how nice the features are or no matter what we say. Certainly you shouldn't prepay 2 years. If you don't trust the company, the risk of paying up front doesn't make any sense compared to the tiny savings vs subscribing month to month.

My point is that since your concerns are with the company and not primarily the product itself, no user is going to be able to persuade you.