Sell Me on a LFL Subscription
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I like the Logos product. A lot. It is rock solid. The company is likely to be solid for many years to come. I do NOT like the subscription model, but since the product is second-to-none, and the company seems solid, and Logos is definitely working on customer relations—think how good Mark Barnes and Jason Stone have been for product image—I give 5 stars (4.9 rounded up) to the company as a whole.
Logos is not perfect or complete; programmers and businesspeople will always have new innovations and we will all benefit. Forums influence that. So, at the end of the day, I am a pretty happy camper. Although I would have described myself as the Logos user most likely to never subscribe no matter what—guess what? I did. And the world has not crumbled. A graph of my Logos experience and satisfaction over the years has been a steady steep climb toward thrilled.3 -
Frank,
I would like to submit some thoughts on feature parity, not, however, to argue on either side of the issue. Logos employees have in the past mentioned time needed to develop features as their rationale for charging customers. For example, while instant dark mode seems like it might be a prime candidate to be rolled out to all users, this decision has not yet been made because it was very time-consuming to develop, and they have to recoup the costs of that by requiring payment.
It would be my assumption that feature parity is handled similarly. Where significant costs are involved, the need to recoup those costs requires them to sell it as a new feature rather than release it as being tied to a previous feature.
Therefore, there simply may not be an all-encompassing policy on feature parity to share, as each feature may be considered on a case-by-case basis.
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I am not anti-Logos, but I am a concerned consumer with the direction of the product…. Why are we being charged for Feature Parity, something that we have not seen in the past…. Why are long time users and power users being forced into a less efficient and from the bug report/improvement requests - beta level toolbar for the sake of supposedly "Easier" navigation for new users?
As for customer relations - @Jason Stone (Logos) has been an incredible asset - in relation to @Mark Barnes (Logos) - not so much for me - I guess YMMV (For me Logos as a Product 4.5 stars, which is why I "fight" for remaining a customer… - Customer Relations from 5 Star down to 1 Star in my recent experience - Forcing the new toolbar on all users and having to pay for Feature Parity going forward will drop the overall rating for me personally - which is why I am trying to get answers to simple questions…. For the record I wouldn't expect a iOS user who paid a premium for a feature that was available on Android to be forced into a subscription for a feature they already own - again New Era - New Policy?)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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There is a sense of 'need to defend Logos somehow' (vs deal with the specific issues Frank mentioned).
Just in the 'watching FL' business, and we're into mid-December, I personally now, wouldn't recommend Logos, except for heavy-duty folks (pastors, academic, etc). The digital-lock on resources (Logos or done), is now accompanied by a subscription model with no promises on 'how much' and 'what offerred'. Don't think so. OliveTree is the better choice for newbies and solid Bible study. AI is fun but for hobby-ists.
I say this relative to what Frank is mentioning .. an odd brittleness to FL decision making. Of course, it got into full-gear earlier this year … the BW setting w/o restart. I haven't seen the promised bug fixes, but then now, we have to worry about forced UI changes that primarily favor basic-use (pre-L4). But the last week or so really seemed odd … loading inapplicable software on Macs? Silently demanding 'users' (aka pastors, etc) figure how to undo the damage. Don't think so … FL's no longer on its game. Bumbling forward.
Eventually, someone will need to speak to the Android problem. Vs customer stats.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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There could be some truth to this... However, feature parity has never been charged for a feature that was already owned in the past as far as I remember. No one has provided an example outside the short lived one time charge for the Mac engine on Libronix. I do not remember the Mac engine ever being charged for features added to it. I'm sure some of those took extensive work.
As for the instant on off dark mode, while I can understand people looking at it as basic function... Logos could argue it's new and not Feature Parity.
In all the discussion about getting the Android Parity, it was never even hinted that owners of the Feature would have to pay for Parity....
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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I’ve had instant dark mode on my iPhone and MacBook for quite a while now 😂 Just go to settings, brightness and display and choose light or dark mode — it automatically changes everything that is compatible with dark mode! So this is not really a Logos new feature, your iOS or Mobile device already has it!
DAL
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This is true - as someone who rarely, if ever bothers with Dark Mode - it doesn't phase me one way or the other… I prefer a "Sepia" background for reading personally.
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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Not taking any side, but for the record, I pushed Logos 38 to my outdated Mac after it did not install by the regular update process. I own that; I didn’t catch the notice on the moonlighting of MacOS Monterey. However I will say that it was arbitrary to have Monterey cut off since it was working just fine with Logos 37.
As far as the ongoing debate, I am not a long term Logos customer with years of a customer-client relationship. I subscribe to Logos now since I don’t want to miss out on potential useful added features. I am certainly not a power-user of AI but it does some things I could not readily do without investing a lot of effort in mastering the Logos search symantecs. I was hoping that a subscription would be comparable in cost in the long run to updating to “Logos 11” but in reality it was not. The benefit in subscribing to Max was to get some higher level resources I have yet to purchase… I get to lease them to evaluate the fit. Unfortunately, even after a two-year lease none of the resources, not even a partial ownership, gets credited to me. I would rather this arrangement be lease to own. So after an investment of $312 usd I keep some portion of the updated application. I get a free book, assuming I don’t already own it, and a few other percs. I suppose to get the most benefit I will have to buckle down and take advantage of the Mobile Ed courses. So I have decided to take this ride for two-years. If the cost of admission then goes up I have to reevaluate. Sure, I would love for the company to remain financially sound. I give the same consideration to my local deli. What should set the Faithlife company apart is a commitment to Christians which is seemingly getting clouded by recent developments. Time will tell. I have my concerns and I am not even a ten-year “partner”. No strong sell from me but I do want the ministry work of Logos to continue to support Christians.0 -
@Kevin Houghtaling if I understand correctly, it reads as though you are a non Logos 10 Full Feature Set owner, which does not afford you a Legacy Fallback License as of today....
If so, I feel for you - and that experience is a reason I can't recommend Logos to a new user without giving warning of having access to whatever the company seems fit to have as a feature available in the "free" engine....
Paying all that money and being bounced back to the free engine is not a good deal IMHO
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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Sorry for the misunderstanding, I do have the full feature set as I came into Logos with L10 Academic pro with the FFS added… I bought a “used” set. I subsequently added to this acquisition with many good legacy sets culminating with L10 Gold. So I made the initial purchase more useful for a non-academic, but a theologian nonetheless. I could have just ignored the subscription but my consideration is staying up with upgrades. By this time I would have been on board to update to a Logos 11 but realizing that the two-year upgrade cycle can be expensive. The subscription sort of fills the gap. I just would like the lease to lead to resource ownership.
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Ok, I think some have mentioned/suggested to Logos whether a discount of some form would be available on the included resources after a certain time of subscribing - say two years like the LFL features for L10 FFS Owners…. Don't recall if there was an answer to the suggestion. It may have been in one of the Subscription mega threads
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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So…Are you subscribing or not?
DAL
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Still deciding - I keep alternating between Pro and Max two year plans in my cart….
There have been some good points made in favor of giving it a chance - it would be nice to actually get some response from Logos, as that is the key information in helping me to decide. (Maybe I expect too much there….??? Nah!)
Logos 10 - OpenSuse Tumbleweed, Windows 11, Android 15 & Android 14
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